First look: Apple's new iPhone 5s and 5c

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  • Reply 181 of 246
    alfiejr wrote: »
    Apple isn't ever going to make uber-cheap phones for the developing world, and everyone knows that, or should. it could never compete with those local OEM's in their markets' distribution channels, it would never make the crummy flimsy hardware they often do, and it would never tolerate the very exploitative labor practices that many of them practice routinely either.
    as to "what market Apple was trying to address" with the 5c, think ahead. this attractive new c model will truly become Apple's "cheap phone" in 2014 when it in turn replaces the 4S at the $0 + contract price point, or $450 prepaid. so from then on, Apple will always have the distinctive low-end product line that all the pundits say they should.
    why wait a year? because the 5c would cannibalize too many 5s sales at that price point this year, really hurting combined profit margins. but next year's iPhone 6 will presumably have further improvements that will push it two years ahead of the 5c technically and protect it from that effect better.
    would Apple plan market strategies a year ahead like that? yes, of course it does ...
    btw, if Apple really does come out with a larger screen phone next year too as rumored, i bet it's based on the 5c, not the 5s,  for the same reasons - price segmentation and profit margins. next Spring would make sense, just to have something new in between major product cycles  ...

    flaneur wrote: »
    This makes a lot of sense. They're thinking a year (or more) ahead.

    Also, it turns out that the plastic back is more expensive to make than I, for one, thought, with that inner steel reinforcement/antenna embedded in it. I totally missed that detail when someone, I'll look it up later, was talking about the reinforcement that I thought was maybe for EMI and heat. Anyway, it looks like they're spending quite a bit to get this plastic and metal "architecture" set up for a long run, and they'll get it paid for with this first version.

    boeyc15 wrote: »
    Very good post, I think you nailed Apples thinking. Although I suspect the larger screen will also be on the flagship model next year(possible before 5c for reasons you mention above).

    Just me, but I for one would like all this new tech in a 3.5 inch screen phone. I have too many use scenarios where smaller is better(but definitely understand the rationale for larger screens, IMO Apple is leaving some cash on the table not having a 4.9 inch model and a bit more customizable home screen/keyboard features... Intuition it's coming though).

    Wow! 2 people out 5 pages worth of posts "get it".

    I must admit, I was a bit worried yesterday when I followed the Live blog and saw the 5C's price. As always though, it's best to sleep on it, read some comments and blog posts, bad and good... and then try to come up with an answer to the conundrum:

    a) who, what and why is the 5C for;
    and
    b) why is the price not in line with expectations of being "an inexpensive iPhone" for the masses.

    I think both can be answered together: Apple is differentiating their iPhone line to both maintain margins AND offer pricing flexibility, all while maintaining a highly sought after premium "flagship" phone at full price.

    Basically, the 5S will not receive any markdowns of any kind for the life of the phone or until the 6 comes along to replace it. No bargains, no rebates, no subsidy breaks.

    The 5C on the other hand, with a very possible BOM of ~$250, gives Apple a "marketing vehicle" and price-flexible offering. Meaning they can tailor their pricing to the providers, plus make Special Offers, rebates, what have you... AND still quite easily maintain their internal goal of 40% profit margins.

    So why didn't they price the phone cheaper from the start? WHY would or should they? If the market wants to pay top price for they latest, greatest and coolest... standing in line to do so... let them! When demand slows down... BOOM.... $100 up to $300 rebates and promotions.... and Apple still pulling in their margins.

    Fact is: you NEVER want to aggressively market your flagship products with rebates. That's why you create a second tier: get 'em in the shop, expose them to a cost-conscience alternative... all the while allowing them to drool over the "I wish I could have that top model over there"... but still get them out the door with the "beginners experience".

    It's worked wonders with all of the other Apple products over the last 15 years and I don't expect it to work any less with this new line up of iPhones.

    * This has 100% Classic Phil Schiller written all over it.
  • Reply 182 of 246
    I personally think the biggest part of the entire announcement was going 64-bit.

    This is going to be the BIG differentiator going forward, possibly for the next 10 years and will probably NOT be coming to any Android device soon.

    This is exactly how Apple is planning to initiate the "cross pollination" of iOS and OSX. Very clever approach, if not only for getting iOS developers in the thousands on-board, ready and up to speed developing for the Mac and OSX as well. Just wait and see when the cross platform games and apps start making it to OSX and to AppleTV.

    I really have to laugh at how downright brilliant, insidious, and downright sneaky this approach is... as opposed too how Microsoft has decided to do this.

    Apple Secret Sauce I call it. Playing only those cards that you need to, and letting the rest take care of itself by letting the short-sighted totally bluster and bluff themselves into a corner and left guessing your next move.*

    Who said SJ is dead?! His ideas, teachings and philosophies he picked up over a life-time of being what other people would consider an "RDF Whacko" most surely, live on! :smokey:

    * Indian philosophy; Power Poker; Asian War Strategy; Chess... Steve Jobs!
  • Reply 183 of 246
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post





    Even so,



    Most of us knew the iPhone 5C would NEVER be cheap enough for impoverished people in BRIC countries.



    At a minimum we expected midrange $300-500 which it's hard to say if the 5C even addresses that market globally.



    I agree with you that the 5C is a hard sell for prepaid markets. If it were $450 it'd be a stretch for prepaid but still within the $300-500 midrange, but at $550 that puts it up with the likes of flagship Android and Windows phones.



    I don't really know what market Apple was trying to address with this.



    I think it'll do well regardless because Apple's ad campaign for it seems solid especially for postpaid markets, but there's a gaping hole in prepaid globally.

     

    Its ludicrous to think a pre-paid entry level phone would go for the prices Apple are charging for their cheaper models. Far far more than an iPad mini. 

     

    The 5c is priced the same in both France and Germany: the 16GB model is will cost €599 without contract, while the 32GB is priced at €699. I am assuming that is the euro price. At that price it is not an off contract phone, nor anything even close. Nor is it a christmas present ( which is after all a huge market). Cook is a bean counter. 

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

     

     

    i'll just use this particular post to address all the knee-jerk boo-birds posting here and around the web today saying more or less the same things:

     

    you guys really don't get it.

     

    the combination of the freshly re-desinged and definitely improved iOS 7 with these two new models - one with great casual style and the other packed with useful technical wizardry - is going to blow away the consumer market. because together they make the iPhone "feel" reinvented. you can all say there is no "wow" there, but actually i see plenty of "wow" for regular folks. iOS 7 may already be old news to the technocrati, but none of the general public have seen it in action yet and everyone will find some of its new features really satisfying to use. add the distinctive two new hardware models to that and you have a huge hit coming up.

     

    no doubt the superficial whining about no bigger screen or no NFC or no ... whatever will continue to be posted far and wide by the boo birds. that's what gets you guys off. well, they'll wind up in the same whiners hall of fame as no flash, no removable battery, no physical keyboard ...

     

    there will be long lines outside Apple stores around the world yet once again on launch day. 


     

    There were lines when Microsoft released the surface, that's meaningless. The questions isn't the 5S - that upgrade was fine (although why does the biggest tech company in the world not skip a design release? Why not introduce the 6 this year?) and nor is the problem the 5C. Thats an ok phone, but not for the price. It will sell, idiots on here will say it sells, but the question is not whether it will sell but how much of the market it can claw back. None I imagine. 

     

    What is with the defend Apple at all costs nonsense you get here. I am on sports forums where fans - fanatics  who spend most of their disposable income on following their team which they, their fathers before them etc. have done for generations - and if the picked team is a disaster the manager gets a roasting. Here, no criticism of Apple or Cook is countenanced by certain Apple fans. Effectively the iPhone line out is Apple's team for the year, and its not a good selection at the price.

     

    Makes no sense. There are no android trolls here, my android loving friends are just confused at the price Apple expects to sell a plastic phone at in Europe. They, however, for the most part don't really care. Android has won. Apple is just going for a niche rich product. 

     

    Thats fine until developer interest wanes, apps disappear and the platform disintegrates. We've seen this story before. 

  • Reply 184 of 246
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post



    I personally think the biggest part of the entire announcement was going 64-bit.



    This is going to be the BIG differentiator going forward, possibly for the next 10 years and will probably NOT be coming to any Android device soon.



    This is exactly how Apple is planning to initiate the "cross pollination" of iOS and OSX. Very clever approach, if not only for getting iOS developers in the thousands on-board, ready and up to speed developing for the Mac and OSX as well. Just wait and see when the cross platform games and apps start making it to OSX and to AppleTV.



    I really have to laugh at how downright brilliant, insidious, and downright sneaky this approach is... as opposed too how Microsoft has decided to do this.



    Apple Secret Sauce I call it. Playing only those cards that you need to, and letting the rest take care of itself by letting the short-sighted totally bluster and bluff themselves into a corner and left guessing your next move.*



    Who said SJ is dead?! His ideas, teachings and philosophies he picked up over a life-time of being what other people would consider an "RDF Whacko" most surely, live on! image



    * Indian philosophy; Power Poker; Asian War Strategy; Chess... Steve Jobs!

     

    Give over. 64 bit iOS development is the same in 99.9% of cases as 32 bit development, unless the developer has done something weird. It doesnt help developers transition to OS X, to do that APple would merge the API. Its mostly the same anyway. However I don't see that ever happening. 

     

    And 64 bits is meaningless in a phone. It frankly is pretty meaningless in home machines, only when RAM is greater than 4G and applications aren't running in compatibility mode will it matter. And that will be never for phones, probably. 

  • Reply 185 of 246
    morkymorky Posts: 179member
    We don't know what they will charge for the 5C in other markets. The cheaper case may give them more margin room to play with.

    As for the 5S, this is a great "S" upgrade. The fingerprint sensor is a major feature and addresses my biggest annoyance about using smartphones. It will be pretty difficult for others to match, at least to do it this seamlessly and reliably. The camera and its software are also compelling. Oh, and going 64-bit in production before ARM has even released designs is no small task, and neither is doubling performance in one year. That and all the iOS7 features.

    I really don't understand the haters. This is monumental amount of work for one year.
  • Reply 186 of 246
    "Inside the optional case is a microfiber cloth lining to protect the shiny finish from scratches"

    > Yes, and it also prevents a person from actually *seeing* the shiny finish. Why would Apple spend so much effort making cases that cover their stunningly beautiful phones?
    "Look how beautiful our phones are...and here's how you can cover the beauty."

    I would LOVE to read an article about the gestation of those honeycomb iPhone cases. What were the other possible design options? Though they are of high quality construction, I'm surprised about the seeming lack of pizzaz in the design. In reference to other comments, I too think they should have covered the text, perhaps with an Apple logo?

    Maybe the perception is different when holding them?
  • Reply 187 of 246
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    reviloa wrote: »
    So.. I'm not the only one that noticed how badly the iphone C lettering is covered by the iphone case.
    The lettering could have been repositioned... and 6 holes would be rounded rectangle.
    We all thought Apple cared about theses little details. 
    I guess it's still a win for Apple.. As I will be upgrading to the iphone S partly because of this reason!!
    Re: my post http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/159466/first-look-apples-new-iphone-5s-and-5c#post_2393727 in this forum.
  • Reply 188 of 246
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    jakeb wrote: »
    Wait what? The 5c is $733 in China? Why would they charge almost $200 more for it in China than in the US?

    Something is wrong here for sure. 
    there are deals that had to be made to even get the iPhone or any other apple products for sale in china. From my experiences over there, it seems the Gov'nt wants to keep Chinese money in the country. So they hike up prices there to keep some of that profit and money in the country.
  • Reply 189 of 246
    Quote:


     a) who, what and why is the 5C for;

    and

    b) why is the price not in line with expectations of being "an inexpensive iPhone" for the masses.


     

    Yep, exactly. The new whyPhone is released, as in why bother?

  • Reply 190 of 246
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member

    I've read so many trolls mocking the lack of "innovation" evident in yesterday's announcement that I just had to speak up.  If you think innovation is the goal and not a means, you don't get it.  Apple is not interested in making the most innovative products; its goals is to make products that people connect with and appreciate for their functionality--that give people joy to own and use.  It takes innovation to deliver on that, but if they can do it "just" by focusing on fit and finish and leaving out distractions and using existing tech, they'd gladly call that a win.  Asking "what's so innovative about adding a fingerprint reader?" is the wrong question.  The relevant question is whether it will make the iPhone experience better.  I would argue that Apple almost never does something to "be innovative."  And rightly so.

  • Reply 191 of 246
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,709member
    philipm wrote: »
    The real problem here is that the name makes it look as if it should cost five cents ;) .

    With carrier subsidy, it starts at $99. The real problem is that Apple is not addressing the prepaid market with an affordable option, which is what developing countries need. In South Africa, something like 97% of the population has a cell phone, and Nigeria is a huge market. Yet most of these people do not have the steady income to get a phone on a contract. Eventually an increasing fraction will, but they won’t have an Apple product in the meantime. That creates a window for other less successful smart phone vendors like Nokia-Microsoft.

    Maybe that’s not a bad thing because competition is good. If you live in a developed country and can afford a contract, you have a wide range of options, and Apple turning into another Microsoft, owning the entire market, is not a good thing. I didn’t like it when Apple was small enough that imminent failure was always an option; I’m not sure I like a world-dominating Apple either.

    Just my 5¢.

    I really like the name. It has so many possibilities.

    Apple doesn't go after the low end market. There isnt any money there and they can't make a cheap iPhone that isn't crap.
  • Reply 192 of 246
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,709member
    asdasd wrote: »
    Its ludicrous to think a pre-paid entry level phone would go for the prices Apple are charging for their cheaper models. Far far more than an iPad mini. 

    The 5c is priced the same in both France and Germany: the 16GB model is will cost €599 without contract, while the 32GB is priced at €699. I am assuming that is the euro price. At that price it is not an off contract phone, nor anything even close. Nor is it a christmas present ( which is after all a huge market). Cook is a bean counter. 


    There were lines when Microsoft released the surface, that's meaningless. The questions isn't the 5S - that upgrade was fine (although why does the biggest tech company in the world not skip a design release? Why not introduce the 6 this year?) and nor is the problem the 5C. Thats an ok phone, but not for the price. It will sell, idiots on here will say it sells, but the question is not whether it will sell but how much of the market it can claw back. None I imagine. 

    What is with the defend Apple at all costs nonsense you get here. I am on sports forums where fans - fanatics  who spend most of their disposable income on following their team which they, their fathers before them etc. have done for generations - and if the picked team is a disaster the manager gets a roasting. Here, no criticism of Apple or Cook is countenanced by certain Apple fans. Effectively the iPhone line out is Apple's team for the year, and its not a good selection at the price.

    Makes no sense. There are no android trolls here, my android loving friends are just confused at the price Apple expects to sell a plastic phone at in Europe. They, however, for the most part don't really care. Android has won. Apple is just going for a niche rich product. 

    Thats fine until developer interest wanes, apps disappear and the platform disintegrates. We've seen this story before. 

    Keep trolling. Only Sammy and Apple are making money and not because of the cheapie phones.

    Devs are certain to develop for iOS because the apps can run on iPads and iPod touches as well as iPhones. In addition iOS users pay for apps. iOS also has a few screen sizes to worry about hence making it easier to develop for.
  • Reply 193 of 246
    Pricing is all wrong... 99$ on a 2 year contract is premium, not low end... and then they cancelled the iPhone 5 and kept the 4S? w. t. f.
  • Reply 194 of 246

    Yes, looking at the vast majority of comments on various Media outlets here in the UK, at the level of prices Apple want for the 5c, there is no real point in them - if they were made to aggressively attract those in the more price-sensitive market. It seems there's a LOT of anti-Apple sentiment at the moment. Perhaps if the 5c also had the upgraded camera and flash that would have added a solid compelling reason to upgrade.  

    Should be an interesting few months!

  • Reply 195 of 246
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    Everytime I see those 5C covers I cringe.
  • Reply 196 of 246
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    harry wild wrote: »
    I like to see how many people fall for the 5C!

    Anyone who buy it are "suckers" since they are buying the 5 in plastic case and the 5S is only $100 more and you get the next generation technology as well as a fingerprint reader security and better camera!

    Exactly- anybody who will update from the 4S will get a 5S.
    What is the point of this phone- for tweens? Those on a fixed income?
  • Reply 197 of 246
    pazuzu wrote: »
    What is the point of this phone?

    It's for the colorful!

    400
  • Reply 198 of 246
    shahhet2 wrote: »
    Engadget had video demonstrating fingerprint sensor unlock. It did looked fast and took less time then you enter passcode. But video showed that it falsed to siri couple of times as well. Guessing it will be corrected by the time it launches.

    denkigrve wrote: »
    You're not supposed to press on the button. So my guess is they were pressing the button. You just rest your finger on it. Someone in the anandtech video covered that while explaining how the feature works. You wake the phone, and then rest your finger on the home button. Then, voila. It's called Touch ID not Press ID. :P

    http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch

    Either of you listen to MacBreak Weekly last night? I think it was Andy Inanko who said that his first few tries failed because he is used to pressing the home button. Once he went a few rounds, he began to change his muscle memory, and it worked well.
    Don't understand some of the comments and complaints. This is the iPhone5S (5.5) a mid-cycle phone same as other "S" models. The S models have always been mid-life upgrades with a new this and slightly improved that, but the same design in general. They don't update the design & feel of the iPhone until a new number update. The 4 was a lot different than the 3, the 5 was very different from the 4, and I'm sure the 6 will be a new design from the 5. If you want a new design, wait 12 months. If you're still on a 4/4S then this is a great upgrade to me. I like the gold color phone, not sure I'd buy it, but I like it. Thankfully, I got the 5, so I'm on pace for the 6 next year.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't get the sourness.

    I am with you. My wife got the 4S last year and I the 5. We will be due next year. iPhone 6 (32/64/128 GB configs with a 4.5-4.7" screen) for me and the iPhone 5CS in blue for her (assuming same/similar colors, and the 5S internals go to a plastic/colorful back)
  • Reply 199 of 246
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    blackbook wrote: »
    It's for the colorful!

    400


    Got it.

    700
  • Reply 200 of 246
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    omit
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