First look: Apple's new iPhone 5s and 5c

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  • Reply 161 of 246
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

     

    Is it just me or are the trolls out in force today?


     

     

    Hey, what did you expect? It is post-announcement day.

  • Reply 162 of 246
    blackbook wrote: »
    Everything looks great. If only the 5C were $100 cheaper or maybe had a 8GB model for $450

    I agree, and I think the 4S is the ugly duckling. A white 8GB base model 5c instead of the 4s would be better. It's like updating iMacs but keeping last year's model around as the entry level one -- although Apple used to do that with education model. I don't like that strategy. Plus keeping around the 30 pin dock connector? Also, they don't even give Earpods with the 4s.
  • Reply 163 of 246
    tyancy wrote: »
    I caught the "hon" thing as well. They couldn't even line up the art with the factory cases?
    Yes, would have been better If where the iPhone text was, there weren't any holes and iPhone would be stamped on the case.
  • Reply 164 of 246

    The real problem here is that the name makes it look as if it should cost five cents ;).

     

    With carrier subsidy, it starts at $99. The real problem is that Apple is not addressing the prepaid market with an affordable option, which is what developing countries need. In South Africa, something like 97% of the population has a cell phone, and Nigeria is a huge market. Yet most of these people do not have the steady income to get a phone on a contract. Eventually an increasing fraction will, but they won’t have an Apple product in the meantime. That creates a window for other less successful smart phone vendors like Nokia-Microsoft.

     

    Maybe that’s not a bad thing because competition is good. If you live in a developed country and can afford a contract, you have a wide range of options, and Apple turning into another Microsoft, owning the entire market, is not a good thing. I didn’t like it when Apple was small enough that imminent failure was always an option; I’m not sure I like a world-dominating Apple either.

     

    Just my 5¢.

     

    I really like the name. It has so many possibilities.

  • Reply 165 of 246
    philipm wrote: »
    The real problem here is that the name makes it look as if it should cost five cents ;) .

    With carrier subsidy, it starts at $99. The real problem is that Apple is not addressing the prepaid market with an affordable option, which is what developing countries need. In South Africa, something like 97% of the population has a cell phone, and Nigeria is a huge market. Yet most of these people do not have the steady income to get a phone on a contract. Eventually an increasing fraction will, but they won’t have an Apple product in the meantime. That creates a window for other less successful smart phone vendors like Nokia-Microsoft.

    Maybe that’s not a bad thing because competition is good. If you live in a developed country and can afford a contract, you have a wide range of options, and Apple turning into another Microsoft, owning the entire market, is not a good thing. I didn’t like it when Apple was small enough that imminent failure was always an option; I’m not sure I like a world-dominating Apple either.

    Just my 5¢.

    I really like the name. It has so many possibilities.

    Even so,

    Most of us knew the iPhone 5C would NEVER be cheap enough for impoverished people in BRIC countries.

    At a minimum we expected midrange $300-500 which it's hard to say if the 5C even addresses that market globally.

    I agree with you that the 5C is a hard sell for prepaid markets. If it were $450 it'd be a stretch for prepaid but still within the $300-500 midrange, but at $550 that puts it up with the likes of flagship Android and Windows phones.

    I don't really know what market Apple was trying to address with this.

    I think it'll do well regardless because Apple's ad campaign for it seems solid especially for postpaid markets, but there's a gaping hole in prepaid globally.
  • Reply 166 of 246
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

     

     

    Apple's focus has always been about improving the user experience.

     

    Explain how air gesture is innovative? Innovation would be when something is improved in such a way that it changes how people intuitively do things. Air gesture, other than being "touch less" doesn't improve functionality significantly. You can do the same things that air gesture allow for using non-air features with essentially the same ease. Tactile response is generally preferred - and yes, that includes the iPhone/iPad's virtual keyboard.

     

    Air gesture is more a gimmick than anything. 


    Actually, I wouldn't mind if Apple introduced a similar functionality to Air Gesture. Have you ever tried to follow a recipe on Jamie Oliver's app while you're cooking and your hands are dirty? Siri will not help you, yet (and you still have to press that button). So either Siri needs an upgrade or scrolling a page while waiving your hand isn't such a bad idea...

  • Reply 167 of 246
    Burst mode is a standard feature of most nice cameras. Apple didn't copy Samsung, it's just that they beat them to market with the feature.
  • Reply 168 of 246
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TYancy View Post



    The keynote was pretty lame. Bragging about a publicity stunt of free concerts in London was the big kickoff. Yawn. Elvis Costello strumming a fuzzy sounding guitar and singing through a fuzzy sounding microphone was the grand finale. Yawn.



    Having Ive providing very slow voiceover over a video showing how precisely Apple can rout a hole in a piece of plastic was not exactly thrilling. They even made a big deal out of the alert sounds, for goodness sake.



    This was the lamest Apple presentation I've seen and I've been watching them from the very first webcast. What they had to say of any importance could have been said in fifteen minutes.



    And then there is the look of the products. I don't find any of the 5c or 5s designs attractive (although there must be a ton of beehive wearing retired ladies in Florida who would love the gold one). A barf colored leather case is hardly chic.



    It was a bit embarrassing to see Schiller trying to make the boring stuff seem as great as the good stuff. Everyone on stage was straining in pretty much the same way.



    The 5s is a good phone with a lot of processing and graphics power, but considering how all the competitors have caught up with most of the capabilities yet with larger screens (which is pretty much all that the average consumer cares about), Apple dropped the ball in a very big way. They should have been able to see the screen size thing coming two years ago, but considering that the CEO is about as left brained and process-over-product oriented as they come, the company has lost its fire, at least for the forseeable future.

     

    i'll just use this particular post to address all the knee-jerk boo-birds posting here and around the web today saying more or less the same things:

     

    you guys really don't get it.

     

    the combination of the freshly re-desinged and definitely improved iOS 7 with these two new models - one with great casual style and the other packed with useful technical wizardry - is going to blow away the consumer market. because together they make the iPhone "feel" reinvented. you can all say there is no "wow" there, but actually i see plenty of "wow" for regular folks. iOS 7 may already be old news to the technocrati, but none of the general public have seen it in action yet and everyone will find some of its new features really satisfying to use. add the distinctive two new hardware models to that and you have a huge hit coming up.

     

    no doubt the superficial whining about no bigger screen or no NFC or no ... whatever will continue to be posted far and wide by the boo birds. that's what gets you guys off. well, they'll wind up in the same whiners hall of fame as no flash, no removable battery, no physical keyboard ...

     

    there will be long lines outside Apple stores around the world yet once again on launch day. 

  • Reply 169 of 246
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gymkata98 View Post



    Burst mode is a standard feature of most nice cameras. Apple didn't copy Samsung, it's just that they beat them to market with the feature.

     

    not just that. the SS G4 burst mode shoots 20 pix maximum in 6 seconds - 3.3 pix per second. but the Apple iP 5s shoots 10 pix a second (i don't know the total limit)!

     

    let's see if all the spec lovers notice this one. actually, not being a spec lover i don't really think it matters much in real life. the software auto-selection of the best pix both offer is the really important factor, and that will take a side-by-side test to compare.

  • Reply 170 of 246
    koopkoop Posts: 337member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

     

    A phone that costs much less than what Apple is charging is a money losing product.  Apple has to maintain decent margins, otherwise the analysts and shareholders will get pissed off.  The problem with these other phone mfg that sell $150 phones aren't making any money and all they are doing is screwing up the industry and ultimately the customer.  The reason why Samsung is getting away with it, is because they make it up by the higher end phones and because it's better to run the factories spitting out cheap components and breaking even so they can increase market share, otherwise, they'd have to shut down mfg plants, have less sales, etc. and probably end up dumping chips in landfill.

     

    To expect Apple to make a good $150 is like asking Mercedes Benz to come out with a high quality $15K car.  It'll never happen.  Mercedes has their branding and their market they go after and it isn't the high volume, low cost, low margin products.  The same thing about Apple.  If you want a high quality product, you have to pay for it.  if all you look at is the price, then you'll end up getting something that is made for that price market.  You can't have high quality and cheap.  Those two things almost never exist.   Market share doesn't pay the bills and allow for growth and to pay for research.

     

    The same thing that's been happening and will continue to happen in the PC market will happen to the Android market.  It's just a matter of time.  There have already been a few Android players get out of the industry because they can't make money trying to compete.  That's not good for the consumer.  How would you like it if you bought something based on price only to find out the company exits the industry and you are now high and dry without a company that cares about a product you just paid money for.

     

    Bottom line, $150 are just cheap phones being dumped on the market instead of a cheap traditional cell phone.   But that market isn't profitable.


     

    I think this is a fair evaluation of how I feel about the 5c. I actually never really considered the 5c during the presentation to be pitched as a bargain phone. A lot of media outlets were talking about how this was suppose to be Apple's foray into the China Market and developing countries. But what I actually got out of it was 'cheap subsidized price, pretty colors, lots of pretty colors, look at these colors, look at the pretty colors on our strange case!', which felt like more a phone for teens. If this is Apple's savior for the growing low end of the market, I highly doubt they've found it here. 

     

    And I'm glad actually. There's a certain image that Apple has to maintain before they begin to look like just any other phone maker. Making a crappy phone for a few hundred bucks to win a market segment would lose my respect. Apple needs to keep their standards and begin looking to other growing markets to succeed. Not play the games that Android manufacturers have been playing for years now. 

  • Reply 171 of 246
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post





    Even so,



    Most of us knew the iPhone 5C would NEVER be cheap enough for impoverished people in BRIC countries.



    At a minimum we expected midrange $300-500 which it's hard to say if the 5C even addresses that market globally.



    I agree with you that the 5C is a hard sell for prepaid markets. If it were $450 it'd be a stretch for prepaid but still within the $300-500 midrange, but at $550 that puts it up with the likes of flagship Android and Windows phones.



    I don't really know what market Apple was trying to address with this.



    I think it'll do well regardless because Apple's ad campaign for it seems solid especially for postpaid markets, but there's a gaping hole in prepaid globally.

     

    Apple isn't ever going to make uber-cheap phones for the developing world, and everyone knows that, or should. it could never compete with those local OEM's in their markets' distribution channels, it would never make the crummy flimsy hardware they often do, and it would never tolerate the very exploitative labor practices that many of them practice routinely either.

     

    as to "what market Apple was trying to address" with the 5c, think ahead. this attractive new c model will truly become Apple's "cheap phone" in 2014 when it in turn replaces the 4S at the $0 + contract price point, or $450 prepaid. so from then on, Apple will always have the distinctive low-end product line that all the pundits say they should.

     

    why wait a year? because the 5c would cannibalize too many 5s sales at that price point this year, really hurting combined profit margins. but next year's iPhone 6 will presumably have further improvements that will push it two years ahead of the 5c technically and protect it from that effect better.

     

    would Apple plan market strategies a year ahead like that? yes, of course it does ...

     

    btw, if Apple really does come out with a larger screen phone next year too as rumored, i bet it's based on the 5c, not the 5s,  for the same reasons - price segmentation and profit margins. next Spring would make sense, just to have something new in between major product cycles  ...

  • Reply 172 of 246
    The price is high is because of the ridiculous high import tax (17% to 33%) I don't know what band they get , probably at 20% (In China nothing is black and white, you need to negotiate!) Same here in UK. We are paying 20% VAT on top. So a 16GB 5S (549 pounds = $850)

    I said that months ago, Apple don't do cheap! It was the Wall Street Anal-ylist made the whole thing up, lure people in the game, push up the stock price then shoot it down. So well done another great con from Wall Street. although they phrase out 5, in fact, it's a great tactic! same tooling, same components. Different package and sell for $100 less (same like what Apple been doing all this years) if anyone bother to check, each time they introduce a new model, their profit margin drop by 8-12% then the next year gone up again. That's exactly the reason.

    From real buyers in China, those I know would be buyers (not those who can't afford, or just fan droid , haters scumbags) only thing they couldn't make up their mind is what color! I go for the champagne :) I hope they come up with the matching color iPad later on this year ;)

    Also the finger print scanner is a stroke of genius at work. All this report came before worry that it's going to wear out over time, Steve Jobs simple stick at work again! Make it a lens cover with crystal.

    And the A7+M7 sure make many people peeing in their pants (I am looking at you Intel) if anyone one know just a bit iOS programming, this open up a world of possibility never been possible before (or not as good) I could hardly sleep last night to redraw all my apps blue print in my head!!!
  • Reply 173 of 246
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

    Who is this phone targeting, and who wouldn't spend $100 more to get the premium model, with faster processor, Touch ID, better camera etc.?

     

    I happen to think that the 5C looks decent, for a plastic phone, I just think that Apple now has introduced a new model of iPhone that is priced almost the same as the premium model. $100 difference is nothing.


     

    It is targeting emerging markets but even in the states, a family of 4 will likely buy the 4C for the kids because they don't really need the fancy technologies of the 5S.  That's a $400 saving that many families will appreciate.

     

    Many people will actually prefer the colorful look and feel of the 5C and will choose it because they don't need the extra features of the 5S.

    Think teenagers.

  • Reply 174 of 246
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,511member
    alfiejr wrote: »
    Apple isn't ever going to make uber-cheap phones for the developing world, and everyone knows that, or should. it could never compete with those local OEM's in their markets' distribution channels, it would never make the crummy flimsy hardware they often do, and it would never tolerate the very exploitative labor practices that many of them practice routinely either.
    as to "what market Apple was trying to address" with the 5c, think ahead. this attractive new c model will truly become Apple's "cheap phone" in 2014 when it in turn replaces the 4S at the $0 + contract price point, or $450 prepaid. so from then on, Apple will always have the distinctive low-end product line that all the pundits say they should.
    why wait a year? because the 5c would cannibalize too many 5s sales at that price point this year, really hurting combined profit margins. but next year's iPhone 6 will presumably have further improvements that will push it two years ahead of the 5c technically and protect it from that effect better.
    would Apple plan market strategies a year ahead like that? yes, of course it does ...
    btw, if Apple really does come out with a larger screen phone next year too as rumored, i bet it's based on the 5c, not the 5s,  for the same reasons - price segmentation and profit margins. next Spring would make sense, just to have something new in between major product cycles  ...

    This makes a lot of sense. They're thinking a year (or more) ahead.

    Also, it turns out that the plastic back is more expensive to make than I, for one, thought, with that inner steel reinforcement/antenna embedded in it. I totally missed that detail when someone, I'll look it up later, was talking about the reinforcement that I thought was maybe for EMI and heat. Anyway, it looks like they're spending quite a bit to get this plastic and metal "architecture" set up for a long run, and they'll get it paid for with this first version.
  • Reply 175 of 246
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,511member
    Is it just me or are the trolls out in force today?

    And some of the regulars are giving expression to their inner trolls, like Gazoobee and Apple ][ just did above. Miserable for them, this living through a computer screen.
  • Reply 176 of 246
    adamcadamc Posts: 574member

    @JohnOI

     

    Apple must have also copied the UI from Samsung./s

  • Reply 177 of 246
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John Oi View Post



    LOL. Did Apple really copy Samsung Galaxy's burst mode?.... Wow.

     

    Shut up!  Please get out of this forum!

  • Reply 178 of 246
    alfiejr wrote: »
    Apple isn't ever going to make uber-cheap phones for the developing world, and everyone knows that, or should. it could never compete with those local OEM's in their markets' distribution channels, it would never make the crummy flimsy hardware they often do, and it would never tolerate the very exploitative labor practices that many of them practice routinely either.
    as to "what market Apple was trying to address" with the 5c, think ahead. this attractive new c model will truly become Apple's "cheap phone" in 2014 when it in turn replaces the 4S at the $0 + contract price point, or $450 prepaid. so from then on, Apple will always have the distinctive low-end product line that all the pundits say they should.
    why wait a year? because the 5c would cannibalize too many 5s sales at that price point this year, really hurting combined profit margins. but next year's iPhone 6 will presumably have further improvements that will push it two years ahead of the 5c technically and protect it from that effect better.
    would Apple plan market strategies a year ahead like that? yes, of course it does ...
    btw, if Apple really does come out with a larger screen phone next year too as rumored, i bet it's based on the 5c, not the 5s,  for the same reasons - price segmentation and profit margins. next Spring would make sense, just to have something new in between major product cycles  ...

    Very good post, I think you nailed Apples thinking. Although I suspect the larger screen will also be on the flagship model next year(possible before 5c for reasons you mention above).

    Just me, but I for one would like all this new tech in a 3.5 inch screen phone. I have too many use scenarios where smaller is better(but definitely understand the rationale for larger screens, IMO Apple is leaving some cash on the table not having a 4.9 inch model and a bit more customizable home screen/keyboard features... Intuition it's coming though).
  • Reply 179 of 246
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

    You're talking about contract prices, and locked phones.

     

    Does the average consumer realize how much that two year contract will be costing them in total? 

     

    Does it make a difference if somebody spends let's say $1800 for lowest model or $1900 for premium model over two years? I don't think that it's accurate to say that somebody is spending double when getting a 5s. Unlocked prices are what should be compared, and there's very little difference between $550 and $650.


     

    I'm talking about contract prices because that's what I think most people see, and they never look at the total contract price and compare those figures, they look at what they have to pay up front and then each month (the average consumer), it's why all those "no money down no payments for 6 months" deals are so popular. Two new iPhone models, one is double the price (up front) of the other, both do the same thing (in the mind of the average consumer), one comes in fun colours and is a bit more durable, one can save you a $100 today, I think quite a few are going to opt for the 5c using exactly that thought process.

  • Reply 180 of 246

    I like to see how many people fall for the 5C!

     

    Anyone who buy it are "suckers" since they are buying the 5 in plastic case and the 5S is only $100 more and you get the next generation technology as well as a fingerprint reader security and better camera!

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