Analyst are never happy. Had the price been announced at $299 they would have said Apple will no longer be profitable and to sell. On second thought it doesn't seem companies need to be profitable to have a growth stock (AMZN). You just need to have potential for the future. The problem for Apple is it doesn't discuss its vision for the future and that drives the stock crazy.
Sorry, I tried to hit preview on my last post and hit submit instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen
And thus why Apple has money in the bank, and Microsoft is slowly going the way of the dinosaur.
I generally agree about Microsoft, the company. But my point was that Windows Phone 8 was an interesting platform and Nokia had interesting products. Not that it would succeed, but that it is at least competitive enough to succeed better than it has. My personal opinion is that Windows improved markedly over the years (peaking with Windows 7), and with different market timing and partners, WP8 could have been more significant than it ever will be now and improved. Which goes back to building that ecosystem. WP8 doesn't really share ecosystem with Windows per se; you don't buy an app for WP8 and run it on Windows or vice-versa. Microsoft essentially has to build most of that ecosystem from scratch despite wanting to leverage their power in the desktop arena.
Regarding Mac sales, I believe they went down YoY. They're not increasing. (Checking sources, yes, 3.8M Macs sold in fiscal Q3 vs. 4M in the year prior.) But the whole desktop segment is shrinking, it's a question of relative destruction.
1. Analysts publish wildly varying predictions about upcoming Apple products, hoping for a random "hit."
2. Investors short AAPL because it's fashionable at the moment (the "herd mentality.")
3. Analysts blame Apple instead of apologizing for being completely wrong with their predictions.
4. Apple buys back AAPL at bargain-basement prices.
I was thinking the stock down turn in price was to allow them to purchase more stock (via stock retirement plan for e.g.) for themselves (individuals, not company), but I like your reasoning even better (#4 in your list)!
ElFig2012, welcome to the Big Boys table at Appleinsider! If you haven't raised the ire of some of the Old-Timers here (relax, I refer to # of posts rather than age!) then you have probably not said anything interesting. Consider the verbal barrage a badge of honour, a rite of passage, a closed fist of respect.
:-) you must understand, product announcements really do get testosterone fizzing! I'm not sure whether AppleInsider has a motto, but given the tone of some comments I wouldn't be surprised if it were something like 'Loyalty or Death' - easily espoused from behind a keyboard in Cyberspace. ;-)
Let not your heart be intimidated, once more unto the breach dear friend, once more...
Bull. Munster understands mobile demand. You don't. He's basically saying that Apple is leaving both money and market share on the table. The baboonery in here doesn't matter - it's full of dolts who don't understand the market. The analysts and the market - the owners of the company - are selling.
What is with you dolts? Is there anything that apple would do that you would criticise?
This decision was wrong and they will probably reverse course and lower prices in the new year, possibly halting sales of the 4S.
LOL @ you people. The decision was not "wrong". Did you run the numbers?
and the iPhone 6 with a 4.5 inch screen becomes $649 upward.
Really a beautiful move.
- 5C = reworked from the iPhone 5 because of the iPhone 5's scratch problems and I think they wanted to change internals (China Mobile band?)
- 5S = Needed to keep the same form factor because of accessories and equipment that make these phones. Lots of innovation otherwise. Fingerprint sensor will be awesome.
- China Mobile = will come; they will ease into it
Only one thing lacking in iPhone innovation, the screen-size. That's it. Otherwise they did a fantastic job. None of this is easy.
people talking screen size clearly have not been paying attention.
Then keeping the 4S with both a different size display and a different connector makes little sense. An 8GB 5C could have been the free w/contract phone.
It also could have canibalized the shit out of the 16 GB model, making Apple a lot less money. The 4S is just unattractive enough to lure people up to the 16 GB / $99 price point, for nicer newer faster phone.
Nothing particularly exciting with the iphone 5C and 5s announcements. It isn't just Apple, I haven't seen anything partiuclarly exciting from the other manufacturers like Samsung, or HTC. Overall this has been a relatively boring period for mobile devices. Nothing revolutionary, everything is just an incremental improvement in specs.
Yes it does make sense. As a business owner do you want a person to buy a $550 product or a $650 product if both had simular gross margins? Of course the $650. Pricing the 5C at $300-$450 would cause too much canibalization by buyers who can afford the 5S but want to save $200. I'll tell you the truth, I was set on buying the 5C for $450 but now I'll gladly pay $650 for the 5S.
I thought about this too and am planning to do the same. Good point.
I like Jon Fortt point that the cheap iphone could be the watch. The same way people wanted Apple to make netbooks but instead came out with the ipad.
That being said, I wish they could offer a bigger screen model. I have no choice to renew my 4s for a Nexus 4 which better fits my needs. at $250, its not a big risk and its going to be paid in 6 months on the money I save on the plan alone.
Get an LTE iPad mini: bigger screen for you and no expensive voice plan. Problem solved.
Nothing particularly exciting with the iphone 5C and 5s announcements. It isn't just Apple, I haven't seen anything partiuclarly exciting from the other manufacturers like Samsung, or HTC. Overall this has been a relatively boring period for mobile devices. Nothing revolutionary, everything is just an incremental improvement in specs.
A7 64-bit: Next level speed, no joke.
iSight: Massive Improvements to every-day photo taking.
Touch ID: Security, solved.
iOS 7
I'm tremendously excited about these 4 and couldn't ask for much more from these devices at this point in time.
Up until yesterday Apple would mark down last year's model by $100. This year many thought "Awesome, finally Apple will create a phone that is a little more affordable for those who don't want to pay $500+ off contract" but instead they took last years model and cheapened it to boost margins. That's right, now you can't even get last years model for the same (marginally better) discount as in previous generations. Aside, there's the completely illogical decision to keep the 4S around, further extending the 40-pin hardware fragmentation.
Why is everyone confused? Take off the blinders folks, they dropped the ball.
Comments
Pales in comparison to the profit margin on movie theater popcorn.
What about bottled water?
Hey, brokers have boat payments to make!
Sorry, I tried to hit preview on my last post and hit submit instead.
Quote:
And thus why Apple has money in the bank, and Microsoft is slowly going the way of the dinosaur.
I generally agree about Microsoft, the company. But my point was that Windows Phone 8 was an interesting platform and Nokia had interesting products. Not that it would succeed, but that it is at least competitive enough to succeed better than it has. My personal opinion is that Windows improved markedly over the years (peaking with Windows 7), and with different market timing and partners, WP8 could have been more significant than it ever will be now and improved. Which goes back to building that ecosystem. WP8 doesn't really share ecosystem with Windows per se; you don't buy an app for WP8 and run it on Windows or vice-versa. Microsoft essentially has to build most of that ecosystem from scratch despite wanting to leverage their power in the desktop arena.
Regarding Mac sales, I believe they went down YoY. They're not increasing. (Checking sources, yes, 3.8M Macs sold in fiscal Q3 vs. 4M in the year prior.) But the whole desktop segment is shrinking, it's a question of relative destruction.
Here's the New World Order for Apple "analysts":
1. Analysts publish wildly varying predictions about upcoming Apple products, hoping for a random "hit."
2. Investors short AAPL because it's fashionable at the moment (the "herd mentality.")
3. Analysts blame Apple instead of apologizing for being completely wrong with their predictions.
4. Apple buys back AAPL at bargain-basement prices.
I was thinking the stock down turn in price was to allow them to purchase more stock (via stock retirement plan for e.g.) for themselves (individuals, not company), but I like your reasoning even better (#4 in your list)!
... investors was waiting for the one last thing that is a 5 inch iPhone. Apple has missed a huge market which is every bigger than iPhone.
Large phones make up only a fraction of the overall phone market.
Yes there is demand for larger phones. No, that demand will never be 'bigger than the iPhone' market.
Today's drop was pure market manipulation. You get used to it as an AAPL holder.
Otherwise, why do you NEVER see this after any other manufacturer's product announcement?
ElFig2012, welcome to the Big Boys table at Appleinsider! If you haven't raised the ire of some of the Old-Timers here (relax, I refer to # of posts rather than age!) then you have probably not said anything interesting. Consider the verbal barrage a badge of honour, a rite of passage, a closed fist of respect.
:-) you must understand, product announcements really do get testosterone fizzing! I'm not sure whether AppleInsider has a motto, but given the tone of some comments I wouldn't be surprised if it were something like 'Loyalty or Death' - easily espoused from behind a keyboard in Cyberspace. ;-)
Let not your heart be intimidated, once more unto the breach dear friend, once more...
God forbid Apple should ever disappoint analysts. After all, it's really they who are responsible for Apple's success.
Bull. Munster understands mobile demand. You don't. He's basically saying that Apple is leaving both money and market share on the table. The baboonery in here doesn't matter - it's full of dolts who don't understand the market. The analysts and the market - the owners of the company - are selling.
What is with you dolts? Is there anything that apple would do that you would criticise?
This decision was wrong and they will probably reverse course and lower prices in the new year, possibly halting sales of the 4S.
LOL @ you people. The decision was not "wrong". Did you run the numbers?
They set themselves up perfectly for next year.
Next year the iPhone 5C becomes $449.
The iPhone 5S becomes $549 and $649
and the iPhone 6 with a 4.5 inch screen becomes $649 upward.
Really a beautiful move.
- 5C = reworked from the iPhone 5 because of the iPhone 5's scratch problems and I think they wanted to change internals (China Mobile band?)
- 5S = Needed to keep the same form factor because of accessories and equipment that make these phones. Lots of innovation otherwise. Fingerprint sensor will be awesome.
- China Mobile = will come; they will ease into it
Only one thing lacking in iPhone innovation, the screen-size. That's it. Otherwise they did a fantastic job. None of this is easy.
people talking screen size clearly have not been paying attention.
Then keeping the 4S with both a different size display and a different connector makes little sense. An 8GB 5C could have been the free w/contract phone.
It also could have canibalized the shit out of the 16 GB model, making Apple a lot less money. The 4S is just unattractive enough to lure people up to the 16 GB / $99 price point, for nicer newer faster phone.
Nothing particularly exciting with the iphone 5C and 5s announcements. It isn't just Apple, I haven't seen anything partiuclarly exciting from the other manufacturers like Samsung, or HTC. Overall this has been a relatively boring period for mobile devices. Nothing revolutionary, everything is just an incremental improvement in specs.
Yes it does make sense. As a business owner do you want a person to buy a $550 product or a $650 product if both had simular gross margins? Of course the $650. Pricing the 5C at $300-$450 would cause too much canibalization by buyers who can afford the 5S but want to save $200. I'll tell you the truth, I was set on buying the 5C for $450 but now I'll gladly pay $650 for the 5S.
I thought about this too and am planning to do the same. Good point.
I like Jon Fortt point that the cheap iphone could be the watch. The same way people wanted Apple to make netbooks but instead came out with the ipad.
That being said, I wish they could offer a bigger screen model. I have no choice to renew my 4s for a Nexus 4 which better fits my needs. at $250, its not a big risk and its going to be paid in 6 months on the money I save on the plan alone.
Get an LTE iPad mini: bigger screen for you and no expensive voice plan. Problem solved.
Nothing particularly exciting with the iphone 5C and 5s announcements. It isn't just Apple, I haven't seen anything partiuclarly exciting from the other manufacturers like Samsung, or HTC. Overall this has been a relatively boring period for mobile devices. Nothing revolutionary, everything is just an incremental improvement in specs.
A7 64-bit: Next level speed, no joke.
iSight: Massive Improvements to every-day photo taking.
Touch ID: Security, solved.
iOS 7
I'm tremendously excited about these 4 and couldn't ask for much more from these devices at this point in time.
Up until yesterday Apple would mark down last year's model by $100. This year many thought "Awesome, finally Apple will create a phone that is a little more affordable for those who don't want to pay $500+ off contract" but instead they took last years model and cheapened it to boost margins. That's right, now you can't even get last years model for the same (marginally better) discount as in previous generations. Aside, there's the completely illogical decision to keep the 4S around, further extending the 40-pin hardware fragmentation.
Why is everyone confused? Take off the blinders folks, they dropped the ball.
What about bottled water?
The local outdoor amphitheater does not allow any drinks in then charges $6 for a bottle of water.
To quote Steve quoting Wayne Gretzky, in reference to analysts with a slight twist:
A7 64-bit: Next level speed, no joke.
iSight: Massive Improvements to every-day photo taking.
Touch ID: Security, solved.
iOS 7
I'm tremendously excited about these 4 and couldn't ask for much more from these devices at this point in time.
Just wait till developers get ahold of the Touch ID and start integrating its capabilities into their apps.