It is completely inaccessible to 3rd party apps at this time.
They're smart to start using it just for Apple purchases. If all goes well, and it proves itself (with a real world test of millions of users), then it will eventually open itself up to other payment possibilities.
Apple is smart, and knows staking their reputation on such a thing is bad idea, and they will control test it until they know it can't hurt them.
Who says an app can't ask the phone to authenticate someone. Just because app's won't have access directly, does not mean it won't be used. What they stated is that nothing can access the fingerprint data itself which is great. Big deal if all you can do is purchase apps and unlock your phone. Apple undersells the feature and developers take it to realms unknown.
Who says an app can't ask the phone to authenticate someone. Just because app's won't have access directly, does not mean it won't be used. What they stated is that nothing can access the fingerprint data itself which is great. Big deal if all you can do is purchase apps and unlock your phone. Apple undersells the feature and developers take it to realms unknown.
Right. Exactly. Absolutely no app whatsoever deserves the right to know anything about the fingerprint or the user making it, BUT, there's no reason the app can't send a call to the OS requesting it to return a yes/no on said authentication. All the fingerprint stuff will be handled securely by the CPU, never entering the runtime of the app, and simply returning yes or no, with the app going from there.
I love (or at least used to love) Apple for it's computers and software. For two decades Apple was so much ahead of its time. Apple had a massive influence on many industries. Most notably graphic design and printing (wysiwyg, postscript, first affordable laser printers, ...), the music industry and film making (well Final Cut Studio that is, not FCPX). And OK, iOS really is (or used to be) a great piece of interface design. But the way the mobile market is now defining Apples business and R&D strategies will become a massive problem. How come I know? In my drawer I still have my previous phones: 2 Nokia's, 3 Sony Ericsson's, 1 Motorrola and a few palm pilots. I bet the kids don't even remember some of these brands. And why should Apple be longer lasting in this highly fluctuating market than others?
"And why should Apple be longer lasting in this highly fluctuating market than others?"
Good question!
I think I have a better answer:
Ever since its 2nd product, the Apple ][ (circa 1977) Apple has been willing to replace its existing products with a better solution. Apple does not create or milk "cash cows" that are subject to disruption from others -- Apple disrupts themselves.
Just wait until you see how the story of the 64-bit A7 ARM chip plays out...
Essentially Apple has taken the short term greed option. We can sell people a cheaper-to-make plastic version for the same price as we used to charge for a premium one. This will net a greater profit. But will not grow marketshare.
They might be transitioning to a two phone setup. With better margins on the plastic models, they can afford to bring the price down when the demand dies down.
This year, it's 4S, 5C and 5S. Next year, they can drop the 4S and bring the 5C in at the $450 entry point and have the iPhone 6 at $550. The following year, they'd have 6C and 6S. By the time they've settled into the two phone setup, they can just call them iPhone and iPhone C.
The cost of the parts will lower and they'll squeeze margins down again to avoid lowering units shipped YoY. As Tim said in the past, they have two special buttons inside Cupertino and they just need to push them to make the most units in any given category. They are kept hidden away in case anyone falls asleep or trips and hits them by accident. When the market demands that they push for more volume, they'll hit the buttons.
People are often under the impression that they aren't already shipping in volume because of how many phones Android is reported to be shipping. Both Google and Apple have announced their device shipments: Android has 1 billion activations, Apple will have sold 700 million units next month. There's not much between them when you think Apple is one company and Android is multiple companies.
Apple is only second in shipment volume to Samsung in the entire smartphone industry and the only reason for that is because Samsung ships lower-end smartphones, which eats into their profit margins. Apple outsells Nokia in smartphones by about 6:1 and people keep telling Apple to push for more volume. They'll do it when the market slows down.
Who cares about the stock price? Are you moronic? Millions of people have their money tied up in this company and it affects them personally when the stock drops. It's more important than your little hobby of blogging on this forum.
I have stock and the drop only affects me if I sell it. Otherwise it's just the market playing stupid. If you can't handle it, stick to bonds.
I don't think anyone has qualms with the contract price of the 5C (ok maybe a few people here).
The main complaint is the unsubsidized price.
Would you personally pay $550 for a phone that looks like the 5C?
Add in the fact that in Europe and Asia the price is even more exorbitant and you'll understand why the backlash.
The 5C looks great and seems like a wonderful phone, but it's certainly not a flagship phone. I think it would have been better if Apple made 8GB and 16GB configs starting at $450 rather than the 16GB and 32GB they landed on. They could have kept their high margins (considering many in the US would upgrade to the 16GB model anyway) while having a better entry price for the 5C.
Yes people would still bitch and moan, but at least $450 is a better entry price for overseas where the iPhone 4 did well although it was an "old" phone. Imagine if there was a "new" phone at that price in Europe and Asia?
Another benefit? No more dedicated production line to the old 4/4S form factor which would save them money as well.
Cry me a river. If someone can't afford it, go get a cheapie Android. I can't afford a BMW so perhaps they should make one for me at say $20,000.
Price is too high with all the plastic...and too close in price to the higher end set. I don't get the point of the C at this price.
Were you similarly baffled at the point of the iPhone 4S last year? Bamboozled by the iPhone 4 the year before that? Confounded by the iPhone 3GS three years ago?
I don't see why every one is so down on the new iPhones, coming from a iPhone 4 it looks like a hell of a deal. That's what I paid for my iphone three years ago with 2 year contract. Plus your going to give me 60 + dollars in software, a finger print scanner, 64 bit processor, Siri, better camera, etc. the normal person will be very happy with this phone.
The article is a good read -- as are the comments.
I miss having these kind of discussions on AI forums -- where, for the most, part the participants are polite, thoughtful and offer well-reasons (if differing) points of view.
I don't think anyone has qualms with the contract price of the 5C (ok maybe a few people here).
The main complaint is the unsubsidized price.
Would you personally pay $550 for a phone that looks like the 5C?
Add in the fact that in Europe and Asia the price is even more exorbitant and you'll understand why the backlash.
The 5C looks great and seems like a wonderful phone, but it's certainly not a flagship phone. I think it would have been better if Apple made 8GB and 16GB configs starting at $450 rather than the 16GB and 32GB they landed on. They could have kept their high margins (considering many in the US would upgrade to the 16GB model anyway) while having a better entry price for the 5C.
Yes people would still bitch and moan, but at least $450 is a better entry price for overseas where the iPhone 4 did well although it was an "old" phone. Imagine if there was a "new" phone at that price in Europe and Asia?
Another benefit? No more dedicated production line to the old 4/4S form factor which would save them money as well.
I read somewhere (didn't bother to research it) that India is 3G cell only no LTE, and is the second largest iPhone potential behind China!
If so, then it probably makes sense to address this market with the 4S for at least a another year. It is not a new iPhone, but it is an iPhone -- with the cachet that goes along with it.
If 5C production ramps up as I suspect it will, the mfg. costs should be reduced enough to over-serve the India market with the 5C, or its follow-on, next year.
Shame. Maybe they should get off their hinders and actually do something about the idiots responsible for lying about Apple for months and then shorting the stock, huh.
Except they don't. So I guess they don't really care that much.
I guess we'll have our first answer in about 4 months as to whether or not the analysts concerns are real or imagined.
"And why should Apple be longer lasting in this highly fluctuating market than others?"
Good question!
I think I have a better answer:
Ever since its 2nd product, the Apple ][ (circa 1977) Apple has been willing to replace its existing products with a better solution. Apple does not create or milk "cash cows" that are subject to disruption from others -- Apple disrupts themselves.
Just wait until you see how the story of the 64-bit A7 ARM chip plays out...
I agree with your observation about Apples drive to sometimes radically redesign it's product lines. It can be painful for the users but it is a good strategy in the long run.
I just think that the mobile market is a very different beast.
I don't assume that the price matters that much. For a lot of people the phone is highly prestigious like clothing or cars. I guess nowadays most people rather compromise on their food than on their phones. But if a phone does well has less to do with specs and quality than with fashionability. And it is a rule in fashion that brands have a certain live span and after that it becomes almost impossible to sustain the popularity. "Being in fashion" becomes the very problem of a brand and the consumers are getting into new products. Some brands survive this down spiral and emerge many years later but still, the downfall is almost inevitable. To give some examples: Adidas and Levi's where almost bankrupt a few decades ago. Now it is companies like American Apparel and Superdry that are struggling.
I read somewhere (didn't bother to research it) that India is 3G cell only no LTE, and is the second largest iPhone potential behind China!
If so, then it probably makes sense to address this market with the 4S for at least a another year. It is not a new iPhone, but it is an iPhone -- with the cachet that goes along with it.
If 5C production ramps up as I suspect it will, the mfg. costs should be reduced enough to over-serve the India market with the 5C, or its follow-on, next year.
That's a good point.
The iPhone 4 seems to still be available in some emerging markets as well.
I think we might see an 8GB 5C this Jan or Feb after the holiday season. That'll prop up sales during the traditional post holiday sales slump.
If Munster said that, he does not understand valuation. I doubt he said something like that.
While EPS can mathematically increase, that is only part of the pricing equation: Price = [P/E]×[EPS]
Lower margins ? Lower expected ROIC ? Lower P/E ratio. In other words, the valuation consequences of an incremental EPS increase can be negative if the margin is lower.
You're also ignoring a huge factor. The proposal was to sell the iPhone 5C at 15% margin. But you still have to subtract overheads from that. A 15% gross margin would amount to 5% net (their overheads are around 10% of sales). If they were off even a little bit, the EPS might not increase at all. So not only would the P/E drop, the EPS might stay the same, so the stock could drop a lot.
That's why I said 'can' (and not 'will'). I was not ignoring it, but rather, wanted to focus on a bigger point.
I am sooooo tired of hauling this out but here it is:
Apple II 1977
Mac 1984
PowerBook 1991
Newton 1993
iPod 2001
iPhone 2007
iPad 2010
Average interval between major new product introductions: 5.5 years. My advice is, if you only started paying attention when iPhone first came out, then be patient. A 3 year gap is at the low end of the range. Even if we limit the numbers to the Steve Jobs era.
Are you seriously comparing the pace of technology innovation in the year 2013 to the Seventies? Really???
Comments
Who says an app can't ask the phone to authenticate someone. Just because app's won't have access directly, does not mean it won't be used. What they stated is that nothing can access the fingerprint data itself which is great. Big deal if all you can do is purchase apps and unlock your phone. Apple undersells the feature and developers take it to realms unknown.
Right. Exactly. Absolutely no app whatsoever deserves the right to know anything about the fingerprint or the user making it, BUT, there's no reason the app can't send a call to the OS requesting it to return a yes/no on said authentication. All the fingerprint stuff will be handled securely by the CPU, never entering the runtime of the app, and simply returning yes or no, with the app going from there.
"And why should Apple be longer lasting in this highly fluctuating market than others?"
Good question!
I think I have a better answer:
Ever since its 2nd product, the Apple ][ (circa 1977) Apple has been willing to replace its existing products with a better solution. Apple does not create or milk "cash cows" that are subject to disruption from others -- Apple disrupts themselves.
Just wait until you see how the story of the 64-bit A7 ARM chip plays out...
They might be transitioning to a two phone setup. With better margins on the plastic models, they can afford to bring the price down when the demand dies down.
This year, it's 4S, 5C and 5S. Next year, they can drop the 4S and bring the 5C in at the $450 entry point and have the iPhone 6 at $550. The following year, they'd have 6C and 6S. By the time they've settled into the two phone setup, they can just call them iPhone and iPhone C.
The cost of the parts will lower and they'll squeeze margins down again to avoid lowering units shipped YoY. As Tim said in the past, they have two special buttons inside Cupertino and they just need to push them to make the most units in any given category. They are kept hidden away in case anyone falls asleep or trips and hits them by accident. When the market demands that they push for more volume, they'll hit the buttons.
People are often under the impression that they aren't already shipping in volume because of how many phones Android is reported to be shipping. Both Google and Apple have announced their device shipments: Android has 1 billion activations, Apple will have sold 700 million units next month. There's not much between them when you think Apple is one company and Android is multiple companies.
Apple is only second in shipment volume to Samsung in the entire smartphone industry and the only reason for that is because Samsung ships lower-end smartphones, which eats into their profit margins. Apple outsells Nokia in smartphones by about 6:1 and people keep telling Apple to push for more volume. They'll do it when the market slows down.
All of this brought to us by the same crooks that gave us sub-prime mortgage backed securities and a recession that isn't over even still.
And that is the point in all these discussions.
I have stock and the drop only affects me if I sell it. Otherwise it's just the market playing stupid. If you can't handle it, stick to bonds.
Cry me a river. If someone can't afford it, go get a cheapie Android. I can't afford a BMW so perhaps they should make one for me at say $20,000.
Were you similarly baffled at the point of the iPhone 4S last year? Bamboozled by the iPhone 4 the year before that? Confounded by the iPhone 3GS three years ago?
I read somewhere (didn't bother to research it) that India is 3G cell only no LTE, and is the second largest iPhone potential behind China!
If so, then it probably makes sense to address this market with the 4S for at least a another year. It is not a new iPhone, but it is an iPhone -- with the cachet that goes along with it.
If 5C production ramps up as I suspect it will, the mfg. costs should be reduced enough to over-serve the India market with the 5C, or its follow-on, next year.
Shame. Maybe they should get off their hinders and actually do something about the idiots responsible for lying about Apple for months and then shorting the stock, huh.
Except they don't. So I guess they don't really care that much.
I guess we'll have our first answer in about 4 months as to whether or not the analysts concerns are real or imagined.
I guess we'll have our first answer in about 4 months as to whether or not the analysts concerns are real or imagined.
Yep, imagined.
"now the "normal" price for a contract phone is $100 instead of $200"
Apple just set a new bar -- it is up to the others to [try to] compete.
"And why should Apple be longer lasting in this highly fluctuating market than others?"
Good question!
I think I have a better answer:
Ever since its 2nd product, the Apple ][ (circa 1977) Apple has been willing to replace its existing products with a better solution. Apple does not create or milk "cash cows" that are subject to disruption from others -- Apple disrupts themselves.
Just wait until you see how the story of the 64-bit A7 ARM chip plays out...
I agree with your observation about Apples drive to sometimes radically redesign it's product lines. It can be painful for the users but it is a good strategy in the long run.
I just think that the mobile market is a very different beast.
I don't assume that the price matters that much. For a lot of people the phone is highly prestigious like clothing or cars. I guess nowadays most people rather compromise on their food than on their phones. But if a phone does well has less to do with specs and quality than with fashionability. And it is a rule in fashion that brands have a certain live span and after that it becomes almost impossible to sustain the popularity. "Being in fashion" becomes the very problem of a brand and the consumers are getting into new products. Some brands survive this down spiral and emerge many years later but still, the downfall is almost inevitable. To give some examples: Adidas and Levi's where almost bankrupt a few decades ago. Now it is companies like American Apparel and Superdry that are struggling.
Yep, imagined.
We'll see.
I read somewhere (didn't bother to research it) that India is 3G cell only no LTE, and is the second largest iPhone potential behind China!
If so, then it probably makes sense to address this market with the 4S for at least a another year. It is not a new iPhone, but it is an iPhone -- with the cachet that goes along with it.
If 5C production ramps up as I suspect it will, the mfg. costs should be reduced enough to over-serve the India market with the 5C, or its follow-on, next year.
That's a good point.
The iPhone 4 seems to still be available in some emerging markets as well.
I think we might see an 8GB 5C this Jan or Feb after the holiday season. That'll prop up sales during the traditional post holiday sales slump.
That's why I said 'can' (and not 'will'). I was not ignoring it, but rather, wanted to focus on a bigger point.
I am sooooo tired of hauling this out but here it is:
Apple II 1977
Mac 1984
PowerBook 1991
Newton 1993
iPod 2001
iPhone 2007
iPad 2010
Average interval between major new product introductions: 5.5 years. My advice is, if you only started paying attention when iPhone first came out, then be patient. A 3 year gap is at the low end of the range. Even if we limit the numbers to the Steve Jobs era.
Are you seriously comparing the pace of technology innovation in the year 2013 to the Seventies? Really???