Data bites dogma: Apple's iOS ate up Android, Blackberry U.S. market share losses this summer

1246

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 114
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,671member
    jragosta wrote: »
    philboogie wrote: »
    0.8% point change for BB & Android? That is the news? I think the bigger news is Microsoft, going from 3.0 to 3.2 is more than 6% increase.

    Nope. None of those are news.

    In most surveys like this, the margin of error is +/- 2 or 3%. Anything less than that is meaningless (or, in some cases, marginally meaningful but at a much lower confidence level). Statistically, almost all of the numbers are 'no change'.

    And that doesn't even get into the biggest source of error in surveys like this. The margin of error calculations assume that the sample is truly random and representative. Since they don't give the methodology, there's no way of knowing if that's true of this particular survey.

    That's a valid point! Also I don't think any of these surveys can truly give a 'proper' insight, a meaningful graph, a representative state of affairs if you will.

    Would it be fair to compare the numbers against the other numbers in the same survey, any survey for that matter, just to compare any difference? Since all numbers have an amount of error, wouldn't that be comparative to the other numbers? (Hope I'm making my point come across here)
  • Reply 62 of 114
    akqiesakqies Posts: 768member
    apple ][ wrote: »
    I thought that he was shorter. I just checked and he's 6'0", so he's not as short as I thought. I'm 6'2", so he would probably do just fine after all.

    He does seem like he'd be shorter. I think it's his young looking face that gives the illusion.

    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    If this data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#TheCounter.com_.282000_to_2009.29) is to be believed, Safari took many years to get to its current usage share. Also keep in mind that browsers back then weren't as mature as browsers and mapping apps are today. The dominant player IE wasn't particularly good, which is why small projects like Firefox were able to get a foothold in the browser market. 

    Right. IE wasn't very good, could easily be changed from default, and there were much better options out there and yet it still dominated. That completely destroys any argument that simply making Maps, which is very good, capable of not being the default would cause its usage, and I quote, to plummet.
  • Reply 63 of 114
    512ke512ke Posts: 782member
    Not surprising. Apple is growing in sales and market share at Samsung and Androids expense.

    Both google and Samsung know this hence their efforts to abandon each other in favor of tizen and chrome respectively.

    Apple is making the money and surging. Every company wants to be apple not Sammy.
  • Reply 64 of 114
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    philboogie wrote: »
    That's a valid point! Also I don't think any of these surveys can truly give a 'proper' insight, a meaningful graph, a representative state of affairs if you will.

    Would it be fair to compare the numbers against the other numbers in the same survey, any survey for that matter, just to compare any difference? Since all numbers have an amount of error, wouldn't that be comparative to the other numbers? (Hope I'm making my point come across here)

    No. If the error margin is +/- 3% (for example), then if you repeat exactly the same survey under the same conditions, you could get a swing of 3% even if nothing changed. There's scatter in the data. A change that's less than the error margin is meaningless.
  • Reply 65 of 114
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akqies View Post



     IE wasn't very good, could easily be changed from default, and there were much better options out there and yet it still dominated. That completely destroys any argument that simply making Maps, which is very good, capable of not being the default would cause its usage, and I quote, to plummet.

    I'm not sure I understand how IE is a counterexample to that statement.  IE despite its flaws had many reasons for remaining dominant in the few years after Firefox and Safari were released. Businesses had their own internal apps certified on IE when it was the only browser around, and presumably it would have been costly to port them to other browsers, especially when the browsers were still relatively immature and evolving rapidly. IE also had the best support for Windows management tools like Group Policy. Most importantly, IE was for a long time the only Windows browser backed by a corporation. Most CIO's won't put their money on an product maintained by volunteers with no customer support. 

  • Reply 66 of 114
    akqiesakqies Posts: 768member
    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand how IE is a counterexample to that statement.  IE despite its flaws had many reasons for remaining dominant in the few years after Firefox and Safari were released. Businesses had their own internal apps certified on IE when it was the only browser around, and presumably it would have been costly to port them to other browsers, especially when the browsers were still relatively immature and evolving rapidly. IE also had the best support for Windows management tools like Group Policy. Most importantly, IE was for a long time the only Windows browser backed by a corporation. Most CIO's won't put their money on an product maintained by volunteers with no customer support. 

    It's pretty simple. You agreed with the poster who said that Apple Maps usage would "plummet" if users could change the default app and then you claimed that using Safari wasn't a good example despite making a lame argument to support your position. No matter how you slice it iOS is successful because it's usable and Apple Maps usage would not "plummet" into nonexistence if Apple let other apps be the default which I choose Safari on Mac (which took years to gain WebKit traction) and IE on Windows (which still is the most dominant browser despite not being the best browser).


    PS: I'm just ignoring your comments about businesses, internal apps and CIOs since we're talking about consumer usage habits here. When we talk about the CIO browser choices you'll know because Safari for Mac won't come up. In fact, it's unlike Macs would come up.
  • Reply 67 of 114
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akqies View Post





    It's pretty simple. You agreed with the poster who said that Apple Maps usage would "plummet" if users could change the default app and then you claimed that using Safari wasn't a good example despite making a lame argument to support your position. 

    Did I? Here's my first post. Can you point to where I take a position on the claim that "Apple Maps usage would 'plummet'?.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

     

    I think this comparison is flawed. Unlike Apple Maps, Safari and Mail are well-established, mature products. Even the usual Apple detractors have nothing to say about them. Your analogy would be more valid if Apple had decided just last year to get into the desktop browser market and released a buggy Safari 1.0. 


  • Reply 68 of 114
    akqiesakqies Posts: 768member
    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    Did I? Here's my first post. Can you point to where I take a position on the claim that "Apple Maps usage would 'plummet'?.

    And by the associative property of me countering the claim that usage would plummet you are agreeing with it. You tying rhe year 2012 to Safari as the only time it could have been released as a 1.0 app is irrelevant as it was a 1.0 app at some point and still gained traction despite your feelings. Frankly, it was harder for them then that it would be now since WebKit had no viable presence and therefore no widespread support as it was before browser engines started becoming unified in their ability to read modern sites properly.

    Today it would be easier for Safari for Mac to gain traction out of the box since WebKit is so widely supported and because of the state do the web today v then. It would get used by a great many users even as a modern 1.0 app because a large majority of users simply don't go out looking for new apps to replace what comes standard.
  • Reply 69 of 114
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by akqies View Post



     No matter how you slice it iOS is successful because it's usable and Apple Maps usage would not "plummet" into nonexistence if Apple let other apps be the default which I choose Safari on Mac (which took years to gain WebKit traction) and IE on Windows (which still is the most dominant browser despite not being the best browser).

    Wakefinance argued that Apple Maps not very good, hence customers would flock to alternatives given the choice. Did you accept his underlying premise? I didn't understand how Safari fits into your argument. Did you mean to claim that Apple Maps is actually as good as Safari is relative to its competition? If so, sorry for the misunderstanding.

  • Reply 70 of 114
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akqies View Post





    And by the associative property of me countering the claim that usage would plummet you are agreeing with it. 

    Sorry, I don't follow. Whether one agrees or disagrees with a statement is independent of whether one thinks the argument used to justify it is sound. I did not parse whether you agreed or disagreed with wakefinance's underlying assumption that Apple Maps is not very good. If you were arguing that Apple Maps would retain its usage share despite being not good, then you can see why Safari would not work as an example. If on the other hand you were disagreeing outright with his premise that Apple Maps is not good, then the whole thing about Safari would seem rather redundant. Of course customers will stay with a product when it's as good as its competitors.

  • Reply 71 of 114
    akqiesakqies Posts: 768member
    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    Sorry, I don't follow. Whether one agrees or disagrees with a statement is independent of whether one thinks the argument used to justify it is sound. I did not parse whether you agreed or disagreed with wakefinance's underlying assumption that Apple Maps is not very good. If you were arguing that Apple Maps would retain its usage share despite being not good, then you can see why Safari does not work as an example. If on the other hand you were disagreeing outright with his premise that Apple Maps is not good, then the whole thing about Safari would seem rather redundant. 

    Have you used Apple Maps? It's very good. It certainly better than what Google originally came out with against MS and MapQuest in terms of feature parity and blows everyone away in the actually app side of things. The only way it appears to have any real shortcomings is having as much data points to pull from the server as Google Maps but as unfortunate as that is it was expected and showed that Google Maps has plenty of incorrect and missing data, too, just with a poorer native app UI.
  • Reply 72 of 114
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akqies View Post



    PS: I'm just ignoring your comments about businesses, internal apps and CIOs since we're talking about consumer usage habits here. When we talk about the CIO browser choices you'll know because Safari for Mac won't come up. In fact, it's unlike Macs would come up.

    Sorry, just noticed this edit (I'm guilty of ninja edits myself). I mentioned businesses because they've been largely responsible for IE's continuing usage share. Most stats measure overall browser usage share and don't distinguish between corporate users and consumers. Were you referring specifically to IE's usage share among Mac users?  It would be news to me if IE continued to dominate on Mac well after Safari was first released in 2003, as MS stopped developing IE for Mac in the same year.

  • Reply 73 of 114
    old-wizold-wiz Posts: 194member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mcgreer View Post



    The iPhone is simply too expense for teens. Teens are only knocking iphone as sort of a "sour grapes". They feel embarrassed to own an inferior phone, so they knock the leader and make false justifications to defend the garbage they own.

    I was at the mall today and there are quite a few teens and tweens walking around with iPhones.  iPhones are very popular among teens

  • Reply 74 of 114
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,882member
    I can sum up the Apple maps penetration in two words: default apps.  If Apple didn't force map links to launch in its own application, its use would plummet.

    And if Google didn't make its Maps as default an Android...

    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    While I see nothing wrong with having Apple Maps as the default on iOS, the difference is that on iOS you cannot change the default apps, so map links will always open in Apple Maps and you need to manually copy-paste the relevant info into other mapping apps. On Android you avoid this extra step because you can set your preferred mapping app as the default handler for map links.

    I bet the majority of Androiders don't know how to change the defaults.
  • Reply 75 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    And if Google didn't make its Maps as default an Android...

     

    Actually, the nexus devices don't seem to come with any default apps set. Unless you have previously assigned a default handler, when you select a map link you will be presented with a dialog similar to this one: 

     

    It's possible that the carriers muck with the defaults on their branded devices.

  • Reply 76 of 114
    512ke512ke Posts: 782member
    I love how an article about apples increasing sales and market share in the US gets turned into a debate on stuff like Apple Maps. Apple Maps is great especially for turn by turn voice assisted navigation. And Apples US marketshare is increasing at the expense of Android. Dramatically so in sept and well see October. This is based on web usage stats.
  • Reply 77 of 114
    Google it and see for [email protected]%u2019s Dishonest Data Collection Called Into Question
  • Reply 78 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post



    I can see why Scamsung phones may be preferred by some of the older generation. After all in the pre smart phone era there were special large phones with large buttons that looked just like those Scamsung phones that were marketed directly to the elderly. Of course now, the smarter older folks just ask Siri to do more.



    EDIT: Note ... this web site causes a Safari 7.0 crash in GM 10.9 after an edit, just as it did in 10.8.5 and Safari 6.1.

    I'm running 10.8.5 and Safari 6.0.5 (latest public release), and I've never had any issues with crashing after an edit. 

     

    What extensions are you running?

  • Reply 79 of 114
    These statistics are interesting, but without more disclosure on the methodology, etc, they are really nothing more than a talking point.

    And really, we need to be asking why the author felt compelled to write a "circle the wagons" defense of apple.

    Here is an interesting real-world action of someone trying to make money selling the devices.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/apple-iphone-5c-best-buy-weekend-50/t/story?id=20463745&ref=http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ar=1380969155

    Best Buy is lowering the price of the 5c to $50. The Galaxy remains three times more expensive at $150. Someone claimed earlier that teens moving to Samsung were doing so because they couldn't afford an iPhone. Hmmmm.....

    And can we agree that Best Buy, Walmart, and other retailers would be charging more (and making more profit) on the iPhone if they could?

    Apple can be admired for their brilliant execution morphing the iPod into the iPhone. They led the way, and continue to enjoy the benefits of having the first "hit"

    But can't we think for a minute what it means if someone is willing to pay three times more for a competitors product?

    My entire family has iPhones. I'm ready to dump mine as soon as Verizon offers a high-end Windows 8 phone. My son is moving to the Galaxy as soon as his contract is up. Wife and daughter are happy with their iPhones. In our home apple is going to see a 50% reduction in market share.

    The point is that this smartphone market is really only a few years old, and lots of people are going to be coming off contract soon. It'll be interesting to see what happens as more sophisticated users evaluate their needs, and compare features and capabilities.

    Apple thinks I am too stupid to change my own battery... Better left to the "professional", right? The single HOME button is broke... so I need to leave my phone -- and all of my private information -- with some stranger for repair, yet Apple clings to this flawed one-button design. I am jumping through all kinds of hoops to try to get some external storage that will work with my phone, and can only get half-baked wifi devices that can save some, but not all, of my valuable data.

    Meanwhile, the Galaxy can accept memory cards. I can swap out a SIM card when I travel to China next week. I can have spare batteries for the Samsung phones. The menus are accessed with touchscreens, not some "mission critical" home button. You don't have to go through crazy contortions to sync a Samsung to a new computer.

    And almost all W8 and Android phones have embraced NFC, while arrogant Apple continues the ignore-anything-not-invented-by-apple snub of this great technology.

    As this market matures, and users become more sophisticated, apple is going to need to offer more than Male SIri, colored plastic cases and low cost phones if they hope to remain a market leader.
  • Reply 80 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExternalStorage View Post





    Meanwhile, the Galaxy can accept memory cards. I can swap out a SIM card when I travel to China next week. I can have spare batteries for the Samsung phones. The menus are accessed with touchscreens, not some "mission critical" home button. You don't have to go through crazy contortions to sync a Samsung to a new computer.

     

     

    It's somewhat ironic that you deride the home button when you cite the only major android OEM that still insists on using physical home and menu buttons.

Sign In or Register to comment.