Desktops and laptops aren't made to be flipped around with the user using portrait and landscape interchangeably.
That's why the iPad kicks everybody else's butt. 16:9 in any tablet is a joke, and it's yet another reason why everybody else makes crappy tablets. The HP Touchpad was 4:3, but that failed because of many other reasons.
Yes I fully understand that but I was replying to a post that stated 4:3 as being superior to 16:9 for work related applications like spreadsheets. 16.9 is the perfect aspect ratio for that. Personally I think the only thing where 4:3 is better is, browsing on smaller screens and reading eBooks. Even then I get by just fine with a 16:9 screen on a tablet, no problems and let's face it if the tables were turned and Apple went with 16:9 and all the other tablets were at 4:3, we would be calling it an archaic aspect ratio.
What this article really shows is that even though productivity software is available for surface (office) and iPad (iWork) that is not really what tablets, especially iPad, are being used for. iPad really is for entertainment, online purchases, gaming, keeping the kids quiet and specialized apps for doctors or text books etc. no one really uses tablets for major business spreadsheets etc. you still need a laptop or desktop for that. Microsoft can't beat iPad at entertainment so they will try selling the surface as a MS office work station but ultimately this will fail. I mean really, it's nice to be able to open a numbers spread sheet on an iPad occasionally if needed but for real creation of complex spreadsheets one will still need a laptop or desktop. And the same will be true for the surface and office.
Forgot to mention on the memory side that after the OS is installed your useable memory will be half, minus the office software and any apps.
Actually you can free up a lot of space by deleting the recovery partition, since the Surface has a full size USB you can put your recovery files onto a memory stick. Plus you get a lot of free space with Skydrive and you have Mini SD drive so it's not that bad. On my 64GB Windows 8 tablet, only 6GB was taken up by the OS and Office after I deleted my recovery partition, I have 56GB free internally, 64GB SD card and 125GB of SkyDrive. I don't see a problem with this.
10" is more than enough to get work done, I've been using 11" on my MacBook Air for years and recently a 10" Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 which is an absolute joy to use Office on. I am able to achieve everything I need to in complete comfort. My iPad is strictly for entertainment purposes, which 4:3 seems to be perfectly fine for, I will never go back however using that aspect ration for spreadsheets though, you want a long screen for that, ugh I shudder the thought with going back to 4:3.
Almost every single monitor found in desktops and laptops today are 16:9, including Apples offerings, the iPad is unique with it's 4:3 screen ration, so I'm not sure what your talking about. Apple chose 4:3 because it seemed better suited for reading websites and eBooks on the iPad, not because it is a better working resolution or monitor manufacturers wouldn't have abandoned it years ago. Check for yourself, search for "NEW" 4:3 monitors and see how many you find.
Oh and welcome to the forum.
Every review I have ever read about a Surface, including this one, has mentioned how awkward 16:9 is for a tablet. If you want to use the Surface as a netbook, fine, but it's not a very good tablet. And I will continue to question the wisdom and truthfulness that a 10" or 11" screen from any manufacturer is an optimal choice for working on spreadsheets. Or that Office is a joy to use. And that the iPad is "for entertainment purposes only." That's an awful lot of MS-supplied cliches.
The impression I have after reading this article is that Surface 2 has an identity crisis, not entertainment enough to be an iPad nor productive enough as a laptop.
I really don't why everyone thinks you need a keyboard when using a Surface. Even though I bought the keyboard dock for my Thinkpad Tablet 2 I have probably used it all of 5 times. They work just fine without it and I actually prefer using the onscreen keyboard. Which means they are tablets and not more of an Ultrabook unless the user defines that purpose for himself.
Because MS's ads depict the Surface with a keyboard and specifically spotlights the "click" sound the keyboard and Surface makes when connecting.
I like that the Surface 2 was interesting enough for you to review and you make some good points. For example it really is not the best for lap use especially if you are trying to use the touch cover. Using it on a bed or anything not solid is also awkward. It's possible, but not ideal. I also agree that the desktop is a clunky remnant that needs to go away if the Modern UI is to become more streamlined and easy to use.
However, you seem to gloss over a lot of the strengths of the Surface. You give the snapping of multiple apps a good view and do mention that is something it has over the iPad, but you seem to view the kickstand as more of a liability than a nice feature. Sure it doesn't work well in every case, but I'm glad it's there and it's unobtrusive. I'd rather have it than not and the iPad does not have it.
Dedicated USB port. Plug in a mouse, keyboard, printer or a lot of other USB devices and it will work. Flash drives work, game controllers work. It's a great feature that the iPad does not have, but you glossed over it and even attempted to view it as a downside since it limits how thin the device can be.
Micro SD expansion is huge if you want to add additional space to your device or want to transfer some files to and from the device. Like a USB flash drive it's something the Surface can do that that the iPad cannot do out of the box. Also USB drives and the SD card work more or less how you would expect them to work in Windows.
Built in micro HDMI. Good if you want to connect your device to a TV or monitor. Something you need to purchase a dongle for in order to do the same on the iPad.
Near the end you say, "But the iPad -- free of a keyboard, not reliant on USB accessories, and in a more handheld-friendly 4:3 screen ratio -- is not tethered to a desk. It's a dynamic device that can be used as a notebook if you really want it to be one. Or it can be something else."
You seem to have disregarded all the strengths of the Surface that you wrote earlier and turn them into strengths for the iPad. The Surface does not need a keyboard, but you can get a nice one and it's great for using "real" Office with. The Surface is anything but reliant on USB accessories. I'd argue the iPad is more reliant on dongles to add features the Surface already has built in. The Surface is not tethered to a desk. You can use it as a tablet, you can use it on a desk. The Surface in my opinion is the more dynamic device that can be used in more use cases.
A few days isn't enough to get a good feeling about a device you have never used. Other use cases of the Surface were not mentioned. For example using the micro HDMI you could connect your Suface to an external monitor. Add a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and you have a device that you could arguably use as your only device. Unplug the hdmi connector and you're good to go out with the exact same device you were just a second ago using as a desktop.
The Surface 2 also comes with 200GB of SkyDrive space for 2 years. For those who are okay with living in the cloud that's huge. It also has a year of international Skype, big if you call abroad. The front facing camera has been improved as well for better video chats.
I give you credit for trying it out and also for not using the app count argument as one against the Surface. In my opinion the apps are the weakest part of the Surface. It's something that might improve as time goes on but right now there are too few apps... especially games. You have some good points, but I think you have only scratched the surface of what the Surface 2 can do. A few days really is not enough time to try to compare it to a device that people have been using for years.
Dedicated USB port. Plug in a mouse, keyboard, printer or a lot of other USB devices and it will work. Flash drives work, game controllers work. It's a great feature that the iPad does not have, but you glossed over it and even attempted to view it as a downside since it limits how thin the device can be.
Tablets are meant to be portable. Why should I also carry a mouse, keyboard, printer(!). If I want to use them, I'd get an MBA.
Tablets are meant to be portable. Why should I also carry a mouse, keyboard, printer(!). If I want to use them, I'd get an MBA.
You don't need to carry a mouse, keyboard or printer (printer? really?). Use those at home as a desktop and take just the tablet (and maybe one of the touch/type covers) with you when you go out. The Surface can do that and depending on a person's needs can be their only device.
I know some people that do that. One of them still uses a laptop because there is no iTunes on the Surface.
You don't need to carry a mouse, keyboard or printer (printer? really?). Use those at home as a desktop and take just the tablet (and maybe one of the touch/type covers) with you when you go out. The Surface can do that and depending on a person's needs can be their only device.
I know some people that do that. One of them still uses a laptop because there is no iTunes on the Surface.
People still plug their printers in via USB? I've had a printer connected to my home network via Ethernet or Wi-Fi for quite a few years. I don't even remember the last time I actually connected a printer directly to a computer.
As for your point that a Surface can be a person's only device, depending on their needs, so can an iPad. With a bluetooth keyboard and a supported wireless printer you're in business. And as a bonus, mirror the display through Apple TV if you want/need a larger screen. No need for cables at all.
It's amusing all the comments calling the review "objective" and "fair"...
Of course, Windows RT has its flaws, but the final "conclusion" of this review came down to a price comparison that was completely off-base.
$580 for a 32GB Surface and attachable TypeCover.
$570 for a 16GB iPad Air and a battery-powered Apple bluetooth keyboard.
That's comparing Apples to oranges.
It'd be $700 for a 32GB iPad Air and the Logitech keyboard the reviewer mentions.
And as for sacto joe's comment about the MacBook Air:
Why would someone looking at a Surface RT jump to a laptop without a touch screen?
Certainly you mean they'd be better off with a Surface Pro (which is cheaper than a MacBook Air) and still functions as a tablet with a Wacom-based Pen.
What is the useful storage on the"32 GB" Surface 2?
Many of us have been saying that for a very long time. Tables are the escape from work, not the extension of it. Sure, you might check the company email, review a presentation or spreadsheet, but that is consuming content, not creating or modifying it, which has never been argued to be better on a tablet vs. notebook or desktop.
Furthermore; until tables are able to easily dock, so that they have 24"-27" monitors keyboard/mouse/trackpad, they will not be used for real work. By this time we should be at the A8 or A9 level processors (although the A7 is quite capable) so the horsepower should be there also. Again, this won't replace your work notebook/desktop for the huge spreadsheets and other large tasks, but will allow you to also dock that work notebook into the above.
I see the next iteration home computing having a central desk with the above peripherals that any member of the family can dock into when needed to do school work, banking, or career work. Gaming can be done there as well, but I see that moving to the Apple TV like devices. Monitors need replacing less often than devices. Overall, this will save money, be more personal, portable, and upgradable.
If Microsoft was first in this space, they would have a real compelling ecosystem, as you can duplicate the above in most work environments also.
I see the next generation as an AirPlay Display with a wireless keyboard and mouse that are able to connect to any Apple device, iOS or OS X. No docking station. No wires. No hassle. Your iPad, your iPhone or your Mac are mobile workstations with a plethora of peripherals to enhance productivity.
For example using the micro HDMI you could connect your Suface to an external monitor. Add a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and you have a device that you could arguably use as your only device. Unplug the hdmi connector and you're good to go out with the exact same device you were just a second ago using as a desktop.
I really don't why everyone thinks you need a keyboard when using a Surface. Even though I bought the keyboard dock for my Thinkpad Tablet 2 I have probably used it all of 5 times. They work just fine without it and I actually prefer using the onscreen keyboard. Which means they are tablets and not more of an Ultrabook unless the user defines that purpose for himself.
Well there is that whole question about what 'productive' is. Working on anything larger than a reply to a post on a board, I'm going to choose a keyboard. Screen size is not nearly as important to me as text size is. Being able to have two apps on screen can be nice, but isn't as necessary as you would think. I'm sure Apple is looking for a way to accomplish that on a small screen that isn't jarring. On my iMac, I might have 12 or 13 screens open at a time, but generally only on one at a time.
Apple has successfully managed the expectations of its customers. I think they are better at it than the Republican Party (masters of the game). I have a 27" iMac, an iPad (3) and an iPhone 5s. There are a few things I do on all three, a few more I will do on two of the three and quite a few I will prefer each one for separately. It's really cool that they are 'connected', as well with the Apple TV I have. I like knowing that if I 'need' to, there are access points between them. I like that they have a certain similarity between them, I like that when I need them to, they support each other. It's nice to kniw I can work on a spread sheet on my Mac, update it during my commute (public transportation) and show it to a client on my iPad.
Microsoft is trying to offer that same symmetry, which is cool. But what makes Apple cooler is the points of preferred separation.
Nice objective reviewing really appreciate it. One thing I can't stand right now is how when I type on the iPad, once I go past the touch keyboard, I no longer see the position field in which I am current typing...
Ok, major gripe aside...I love my iPads, I am restraining myself from buying the latter generation to add to my collection. I would REALLY like to see a "Pro" version come out in the next rollout. The iPad is in serious need of external media transfer of data (read: micro SIM card dammit). I particularly like how the surface DOES have the true multitasking, window operations...that blows the iPad out of the water in sheer productivity and practicality (am I really saying this...yes I am in the spirit of objectivity in hope of further consideration from the engineers that be). I have been majorly productive in my. iPad having churned out thick research papers in my graduate school days, animations and drawing for my classroom curricula, as an interactive surface in my one-to-one tutoring sessions, and as a small part in my music studio productions. Let me address the music studio side of things: Apple, let the iPad be seen as an AU external device within a host (take any one of the superb synths on the iPad and stick it in a dedicated Logic track, for example)...also the whole idea of cut/copy/pasting is tiresome and quite frankly lame, WTF: that is where the multi window paradigm starts making SUPER obvious sense. Currently there are just too many gesture operations involved just to more stuff from one app to the next. I, for one, am sick and tired (and at time creativity stifled, in having to do a myriad of these operations just to move my hard work and data from app A to app B.
So the takeaway is that both iPads and Surface RT suck for trying to do productive work on, try Windows Pro?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No, but thanks for playing.
Take it up with the author- it wasn't *my* conclusion, I just found his candor surprising....
Conclusions and thoughts
Let's be real: If you're serious about productivity, and your daily workflow is even moderately complex, you're not going to rely solely on either an iPad or a Surface in their current state...
the Windows tablet landscape shows there are many other competing tablets in the same price range that run full-fledged Windows...
So perhaps, if they could improve the trackpad on the keyboard, they'd have more of a winner? I agree with your issue - when you're on the keyboard, you generally want to stay on the keyboard, and not bring your hand up to the screen. Kinda what the late, great Mr. Jobs said himself when discussing touch screens on MacBooks.
Comments
Desktops and laptops aren't made to be flipped around with the user using portrait and landscape interchangeably.
That's why the iPad kicks everybody else's butt. 16:9 in any tablet is a joke, and it's yet another reason why everybody else makes crappy tablets. The HP Touchpad was 4:3, but that failed because of many other reasons.
Yes I fully understand that but I was replying to a post that stated 4:3 as being superior to 16:9 for work related applications like spreadsheets. 16.9 is the perfect aspect ratio for that. Personally I think the only thing where 4:3 is better is, browsing on smaller screens and reading eBooks. Even then I get by just fine with a 16:9 screen on a tablet, no problems and let's face it if the tables were turned and Apple went with 16:9 and all the other tablets were at 4:3, we would be calling it an archaic aspect ratio.
Forgot to mention on the memory side that after the OS is installed your useable memory will be half, minus the office software and any apps.
Actually you can free up a lot of space by deleting the recovery partition, since the Surface has a full size USB you can put your recovery files onto a memory stick. Plus you get a lot of free space with Skydrive and you have Mini SD drive so it's not that bad. On my 64GB Windows 8 tablet, only 6GB was taken up by the OS and Office after I deleted my recovery partition, I have 56GB free internally, 64GB SD card and 125GB of SkyDrive. I don't see a problem with this.
10" is more than enough to get work done, I've been using 11" on my MacBook Air for years and recently a 10" Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 which is an absolute joy to use Office on. I am able to achieve everything I need to in complete comfort. My iPad is strictly for entertainment purposes, which 4:3 seems to be perfectly fine for, I will never go back however using that aspect ration for spreadsheets though, you want a long screen for that, ugh I shudder the thought with going back to 4:3.
Almost every single monitor found in desktops and laptops today are 16:9, including Apples offerings, the iPad is unique with it's 4:3 screen ration, so I'm not sure what your talking about. Apple chose 4:3 because it seemed better suited for reading websites and eBooks on the iPad, not because it is a better working resolution or monitor manufacturers wouldn't have abandoned it years ago. Check for yourself, search for "NEW" 4:3 monitors and see how many you find.
Oh and welcome to the forum.
Every review I have ever read about a Surface, including this one, has mentioned how awkward 16:9 is for a tablet. If you want to use the Surface as a netbook, fine, but it's not a very good tablet. And I will continue to question the wisdom and truthfulness that a 10" or 11" screen from any manufacturer is an optimal choice for working on spreadsheets. Or that Office is a joy to use. And that the iPad is "for entertainment purposes only." That's an awful lot of MS-supplied cliches.
There is no room in the market for a device that tries and fails to be "in between" pure tablet and laptop.
Because MS's ads depict the Surface with a keyboard and specifically spotlights the "click" sound the keyboard and Surface makes when connecting.
I like that the Surface 2 was interesting enough for you to review and you make some good points. For example it really is not the best for lap use especially if you are trying to use the touch cover. Using it on a bed or anything not solid is also awkward. It's possible, but not ideal. I also agree that the desktop is a clunky remnant that needs to go away if the Modern UI is to become more streamlined and easy to use.
However, you seem to gloss over a lot of the strengths of the Surface. You give the snapping of multiple apps a good view and do mention that is something it has over the iPad, but you seem to view the kickstand as more of a liability than a nice feature. Sure it doesn't work well in every case, but I'm glad it's there and it's unobtrusive. I'd rather have it than not and the iPad does not have it.
Dedicated USB port. Plug in a mouse, keyboard, printer or a lot of other USB devices and it will work. Flash drives work, game controllers work. It's a great feature that the iPad does not have, but you glossed over it and even attempted to view it as a downside since it limits how thin the device can be.
Micro SD expansion is huge if you want to add additional space to your device or want to transfer some files to and from the device. Like a USB flash drive it's something the Surface can do that that the iPad cannot do out of the box. Also USB drives and the SD card work more or less how you would expect them to work in Windows.
Built in micro HDMI. Good if you want to connect your device to a TV or monitor. Something you need to purchase a dongle for in order to do the same on the iPad.
Near the end you say, "But the iPad -- free of a keyboard, not reliant on USB accessories, and in a more handheld-friendly 4:3 screen ratio -- is not tethered to a desk. It's a dynamic device that can be used as a notebook if you really want it to be one. Or it can be something else."
You seem to have disregarded all the strengths of the Surface that you wrote earlier and turn them into strengths for the iPad. The Surface does not need a keyboard, but you can get a nice one and it's great for using "real" Office with. The Surface is anything but reliant on USB accessories. I'd argue the iPad is more reliant on dongles to add features the Surface already has built in. The Surface is not tethered to a desk. You can use it as a tablet, you can use it on a desk. The Surface in my opinion is the more dynamic device that can be used in more use cases.
A few days isn't enough to get a good feeling about a device you have never used. Other use cases of the Surface were not mentioned. For example using the micro HDMI you could connect your Suface to an external monitor. Add a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and you have a device that you could arguably use as your only device. Unplug the hdmi connector and you're good to go out with the exact same device you were just a second ago using as a desktop.
The Surface 2 also comes with 200GB of SkyDrive space for 2 years. For those who are okay with living in the cloud that's huge. It also has a year of international Skype, big if you call abroad. The front facing camera has been improved as well for better video chats.
I give you credit for trying it out and also for not using the app count argument as one against the Surface. In my opinion the apps are the weakest part of the Surface. It's something that might improve as time goes on but right now there are too few apps... especially games. You have some good points, but I think you have only scratched the surface of what the Surface 2 can do. A few days really is not enough time to try to compare it to a device that people have been using for years.
Tablets are meant to be portable. Why should I also carry a mouse, keyboard, printer(!). If I want to use them, I'd get an MBA.
Tablets are meant to be portable. Why should I also carry a mouse, keyboard, printer(!). If I want to use them, I'd get an MBA.
You don't need to carry a mouse, keyboard or printer (printer? really?). Use those at home as a desktop and take just the tablet (and maybe one of the touch/type covers) with you when you go out. The Surface can do that and depending on a person's needs can be their only device.
I know some people that do that. One of them still uses a laptop because there is no iTunes on the Surface.
What a joke.
There is no room in the market for a device that tries and fails to be "in between" pure tablet and laptop.
Exactly. It's like finding a market "in between" a truck and a car. It's going to suck at being either.
You don't need to carry a mouse, keyboard or printer (printer? really?). Use those at home as a desktop and take just the tablet (and maybe one of the touch/type covers) with you when you go out. The Surface can do that and depending on a person's needs can be their only device.
I know some people that do that. One of them still uses a laptop because there is no iTunes on the Surface.
People still plug their printers in via USB? I've had a printer connected to my home network via Ethernet or Wi-Fi for quite a few years. I don't even remember the last time I actually connected a printer directly to a computer.
As for your point that a Surface can be a person's only device, depending on their needs, so can an iPad. With a bluetooth keyboard and a supported wireless printer you're in business. And as a bonus, mirror the display through Apple TV if you want/need a larger screen. No need for cables at all.
What is the useful storage on the"32 GB" Surface 2?
I see the next generation as an AirPlay Display with a wireless keyboard and mouse that are able to connect to any Apple device, iOS or OS X. No docking station. No wires. No hassle. Your iPad, your iPhone or your Mac are mobile workstations with a plethora of peripherals to enhance productivity.
I can do this with my ipad, or iphone too.
Well there is that whole question about what 'productive' is. Working on anything larger than a reply to a post on a board, I'm going to choose a keyboard. Screen size is not nearly as important to me as text size is. Being able to have two apps on screen can be nice, but isn't as necessary as you would think. I'm sure Apple is looking for a way to accomplish that on a small screen that isn't jarring. On my iMac, I might have 12 or 13 screens open at a time, but generally only on one at a time.
Apple has successfully managed the expectations of its customers. I think they are better at it than the Republican Party (masters of the game). I have a 27" iMac, an iPad (3) and an iPhone 5s. There are a few things I do on all three, a few more I will do on two of the three and quite a few I will prefer each one for separately. It's really cool that they are 'connected', as well with the Apple TV I have. I like knowing that if I 'need' to, there are access points between them. I like that they have a certain similarity between them, I like that when I need them to, they support each other. It's nice to kniw I can work on a spread sheet on my Mac, update it during my commute (public transportation) and show it to a client on my iPad.
Microsoft is trying to offer that same symmetry, which is cool. But what makes Apple cooler is the points of preferred separation.
Ok, major gripe aside...I love my iPads, I am restraining myself from buying the latter generation to add to my collection. I would REALLY like to see a "Pro" version come out in the next rollout. The iPad is in serious need of external media transfer of data (read: micro SIM card dammit). I particularly like how the surface DOES have the true multitasking, window operations...that blows the iPad out of the water in sheer productivity and practicality (am I really saying this...yes I am in the spirit of objectivity in hope of further consideration from the engineers that be). I have been majorly productive in my. iPad having churned out thick research papers in my graduate school days, animations and drawing for my classroom curricula, as an interactive surface in my one-to-one tutoring sessions, and as a small part in my music studio productions. Let me address the music studio side of things: Apple, let the iPad be seen as an AU external device within a host (take any one of the superb synths on the iPad and stick it in a dedicated Logic track, for example)...also the whole idea of cut/copy/pasting is tiresome and quite frankly lame, WTF: that is where the multi window paradigm starts making SUPER obvious sense. Currently there are just too many gesture operations involved just to more stuff from one app to the next. I, for one, am sick and tired (and at time creativity stifled, in having to do a myriad of these operations just to move my hard work and data from app A to app B.
Cheers
So the takeaway is that both iPads and Surface RT suck for trying to do productive work on, try Windows Pro?
No, but thanks for playing.
Take it up with the author- it wasn't *my* conclusion, I just found his candor surprising....
Conclusions and thoughts
Let's be real: If you're serious about productivity, and your daily workflow is even moderately complex, you're not going to rely solely on either an iPad or a Surface in their current state...
the Windows tablet landscape shows there are many other competing tablets in the same price range that run full-fledged Windows...