If you have to analyze a thing this deeply, work so hard at figuring out if it’s “productive”, whether it will or won’t fit your workflow, well then… there are probably better alternatives.
I needed less than 2 minutes with an iPad to know I was buying one. It was, quite literally, a no-brainer.
That is partly what sets these two devices apart. One is simply obvious. The other "takes some ‘splainin’…."
Finally, a fair review of a competitor's product. I personally dislike the surface but I like Win 7 and it's nice to see a fair review here. If you don't want to read it, then don't. It's nice to hear how the competition fairs against Apple's products.
If you have to analyze a thing this deeply, work so hard at figuring out if it’s “productive”, whether it will or won’t fit your workflow, well then… there are probably better alternatives.
I needed less than 2 minutes with an iPad to know I was buying one. It was, quite literally, a no-brainer.
That is partly what sets these two devices apart. One is simply obvious. The other "takes some ‘splainin’…."
Great and that should be all that matters, I am the technical geek type, a girl but still a geek. When someone in this forum starts writing significant performance gains over the competition, in this case the CPU I get all giddy inside and do a lot of research. I also own quite a few gadgets so I can run benchmarks myself. Since Apple uses a reference design from ARM like everyone else, the starting point for the CPU is the same, it's the extras the manufactures build on that is interesting.
Those benchmarks you are seeing are almost always browser related, until I see Apples A7 on a developers board being benchmarked against similiar CPU's on the same board there is truly no way to know. The examples I showed above with the Chromebook and Nexus 10 was the closest I could find of having the same CPU with different OS's and it showed it makes a big difference.
There is no way to know of the AArch64 ISA is better than AArch32? Good one!
It's just a commercial, if the keyboard was truly needed or if Microsoft was trying to sell the Surface as a Hybrid they would have included the keyboard. Personally I would skip the keyboard all together and just get the docking station for when I need to get real work done.
But the commercial is how MS introduced the Surface to the general public. If it's not needed, why'd they focus on it?
There is no way to know of the AArch64 ISA is better than AArch32? Good one!
Ugh, for 32bit operations it doesn't matter and I didn't say 32bit was better than 64bit. Just that the performance isn't going to blow away the fastest from Qualcomm, remember they use higher clock rates and quad cores, so using the same OS they would probably be similar in performance. It's great that a dual core 1.2GHZ A7 is so fast because of it's new design but that doesn't necessarily make it the fastest.
But the commercial is how MS introduced the Surface to the general public. If it's not needed, why'd they focus on it?
I have to admit I didn't see the commercial until just now, your right they showed the keyboard twice but they also showed it without it twice. That's why the keyboard is sold separately, it's up to the user to decide what kind of device the Surface is going to be for them. I personally would use it primarily as a tablet, as a hybrid I don't think it would fly with me very well, plus I already have a Macbook Air that is the perfect laptop and I don't think I could ever give up junior anytime soon. A windows 8 tablet though isn't such a bad thing though, I don't own a Surface but I do have a Thinkpad Tablet 2 and I'm quite fond of it. That's why I've been posting so much here because I really don't understand all of the hatred for the Surface 2, okay maybe the RT model but the Pro is actually pretty cool. Very attractive and very well built, fast, up to 8GB RAM and a 512GB SSD. Yes Windows 8 does have some identity crisis issues but once you get used to it and learn all of it's tricks it can actually be a very useful OS. I would love nothing more than a OSX tablet as I'm sorry to iOS is no where near as productive as people around here claim it to be. It's an entertaining device no doubt but I would like to run some desktop apps on my tablets and I really need a file-manager as well as command line to run scripts. It also get's on my nerves when people seem to know so much about this device without ever actually using it for at least a month. I know this is an Apple forum and it's a sin to like anything but Apple products but sometimes it gets to be too much. I would like to own a Surface 2 Pro if I survive my cancer, it will be my congratulations for not dying present to myself.
Ugh, for 32bit operations it doesn't matter and I didn't say 32bit was better than 64bit. Just that the performance isn't going to blow away the fastest from Qualcomm, remember they use higher clock rates and quad cores, so using the same OS they would probably be similar in performance. It's great that a dual core 1.2GHZ A7 is so fast because of it's new design but that doesn't necessarily make it the fastest.
Ugh, it's the 64-bit ARM processor with a 64-bit OS with a large number of 64-bit apps which WILL BENEFIT from the 64-bit ARM ISA, and as previously noted, Obj-C will especially benefit from the new features of this new ISA. This is what you called a marketing gimmick.
Ugh, it's the 64-bit ARM processor with a 64-bit OS with a large number of 64-bit apps which WILL BENEFIT from the 64-bit ARM ISA, and as previously noted, Obj-C will especially benefit from the new features of this new ISA. This is what you called a marketing gimmick.
What 64bit apps? A few games and Garageband. Yes, I still think it's a marketing ploy and I don't think you know what you are talking about outside of what you've read in the press release. I'm sorry for saying this, I think you need to read up a little more on 64bit CPU's, benefits and disadvantages. Especially for consumer products pertaining to mobile applications.
What 64bit apps? Name one outside of Apples own. Yes, I still think it's a marketing ploy and I don't think you know what you are talking about outside of what you've in the press release. I'm sorry for saying this, I think you need to read up a little more on 64bit CPU's, benefits and disadvantages. Especially for consumer products pertaining to mobile applications.
1) In 18 months when this is shipping on Android devices with less than 4GB RAM you'll be saying the ISA is better.
3) Which "press release" refers specifically to the ISA and AArch64?
4) There are plenty of 3rd-party apps as the conversion is quite trivial.
5) You show your hatred for Apple by trying to discount any of there apps as qualifying.
6) Here is an example of what you call you a "press release" comment and something that is only achieved by a higher clock rate and not by the new ISA: "The biggest change is an inline retain count, which eliminates the need to perform a costly hash table lookup for retain and release operations in the common case. Since those operations are so common in most Objective-C code, this is a big win. Per-object resource cleanup flags make object deallocation quite a bit faster in certain cases. All in all, the cost of creating and destroying an object is roughly cut in half. Tagged pointers also make for a nice performance win as well as reduced memory use."
1) In 18 months when this is shipping on Android devices with less than 4GB RAM you'll be saying the ISA is better.
2) You're being an idiot (as usual).
3) Which "press release" refers specifically to the ISA and AArch64?
4) There are plenty of 3rd-party apps as the conversion is quite trivial.
5) You show your hatred for Apple by trying to discount any of there apps as qualifying.
6) Here is an example of what you call you a "press release" comment and something that is only achieved by a higher clock rate and not by the new ISA: "The biggest change is an inline retain count, which eliminates the need to perform a costly hash table lookup for retain and release operations in the common case. Since those operations are so common in most Objective-C code, this is a big win. Per-object resource cleanup flags make object deallocation quite a bit faster in certain cases. All in all, the cost of creating and destroying an object is roughly cut in half. Tagged pointers also make for a nice performance win as well as reduced memory use."
I can care less when a Android gadget with 64 bit ships, the only device I still have with that OS is a Nexus 7 and I gave it to my daughter but it will be in the beginning of 2014 not 18 months especially now that Apple released one, Android gadget manufactures have the same access to ARMs reference designs as Apple. Conversion or recompiling 32bit to 64bit does not automatically give the app any performance advantage. I have never called you a name like idiot or anything for that matter and would ask you for the same courtesy. Just because your frustrated with me for not blindingly loving everything that comes from Apple does not give you the right. Hatred for Apple, why do you assume that because I am being critical of Apple means that I hate them, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I wouldn't be here for the last 11 years if I hated using Apple products and I am critical of every product, nothing is perfect in this world. I will not blindly accept everything just because they say it's better, especially when I know better. They are also a computer manufacture, not your friends or family, they are in the business of separating your money from you wallet, treat them as such. It's okay to like a company's goods just don't love them, that's weird. you don't have to worry though, in a few months you can have this board all to your self as I will most likely not be on this planet any longer.
I have never called you a name like idiot or anything for that matter and would ask you for the same courtesy.
Fine. You're making idiotic comments. Happy now?
I will not blindly accept everything just because they say it's better, especially when I know better.
Funny how the trolls use absolute statements and go from one extreme to the other. Pointing out that you're foolishly pretending the AArch_64 ISA , which Apple didn't even create, has no benefits outside of "marketing" is not a statement that you should blindly accept everything… yet that's how you see the world.
At the risk of threadjack, I am also waiting for a proliferation of ebook readers that are free. Yes, free. A button on them lets you buy a product with a huge margin. Why not get them in the hands of as many people as you can. Make them one trick ponies, and give them away. Maybe "buy 10 ebooks get the device free." Not likely from AAPL after their run in with the DOJ.
Forget the DOJ issue, Apple isn't likely to make a one trick pony.
Funny how the trolls use absolute statements and go from one extreme to the other. Pointing out that you're foolishly pretending the AArch_64 ISA , which Apple didn't even create, has no benefits outside of "marketing" is not a statement that you should blindly accept everything… yet that's how you see the world.
I'm not going to play with you anymore. Have a good night.
Forget the DOJ issue, Apple isn't likely to make a one trick pony.
Actually all apps can use the touch interface, the only problem I have ran into without having a mouse or trackpad is selecting large portions of text within some desktop applications. I hate touchpads, I always use a mouse.
Microsoft has a docking station for the Surface with all the connections needed. So you can do your work and when finished detach and use it as a tablet and no the keyboard case is not needed for anything.
Why is Microsoft not pushing this more? THIS is what they need to be driving.
Why is Microsoft not pushing this more? THIS is what they need to be driving.
I'm not sure why it's not in there commercials, apparently after reading the comments in this thread it might be helpful. This is an Apple forum and people don't have any interest in exploring further what any other platform has to offer, they would prefer to outline the negatives. I found the docking station after just 1 minute by visiting the Surface product page. It's the same with any platform specific forum, Android, Microsoft, ect. They all think their choices in computer or gadget is supreme. The forums that get the most hits on Appleinsider when Apple isn't releasing new products of course are the ones discussing these other gadgets because people in general like a good bitch session, human nature. There of course is nothing wrong with owning and using the Surface 2, it's a good machine and will accomplish most tasks that people need to do. I would still like to know if anyone in this thread has used a Windows 8 tablet for at least a month.
Comments
If you have to analyze a thing this deeply, work so hard at figuring out if it’s “productive”, whether it will or won’t fit your workflow, well then… there are probably better alternatives.
I needed less than 2 minutes with an iPad to know I was buying one. It was, quite literally, a no-brainer.
That is partly what sets these two devices apart. One is simply obvious. The other "takes some ‘splainin’…."
Here’s my take away.
If you have to analyze a thing this deeply, work so hard at figuring out if it’s “productive”, whether it will or won’t fit your workflow, well then… there are probably better alternatives.
I needed less than 2 minutes with an iPad to know I was buying one. It was, quite literally, a no-brainer.
That is partly what sets these two devices apart. One is simply obvious. The other "takes some ‘splainin’…."
Great and that should be all that matters, I am the technical geek type, a girl but still a geek. When someone in this forum starts writing significant performance gains over the competition, in this case the CPU I get all giddy inside and do a lot of research. I also own quite a few gadgets so I can run benchmarks myself. Since Apple uses a reference design from ARM like everyone else, the starting point for the CPU is the same, it's the extras the manufactures build on that is interesting.
There is no way to know of the AArch64 ISA is better than AArch32? Good one!
But the commercial is how MS introduced the Surface to the general public. If it's not needed, why'd they focus on it?
There is no way to know of the AArch64 ISA is better than AArch32? Good one!
Ugh, for 32bit operations it doesn't matter and I didn't say 32bit was better than 64bit. Just that the performance isn't going to blow away the fastest from Qualcomm, remember they use higher clock rates and quad cores, so using the same OS they would probably be similar in performance. It's great that a dual core 1.2GHZ A7 is so fast because of it's new design but that doesn't necessarily make it the fastest.
But the commercial is how MS introduced the Surface to the general public. If it's not needed, why'd they focus on it?
I have to admit I didn't see the commercial until just now, your right they showed the keyboard twice but they also showed it without it twice. That's why the keyboard is sold separately, it's up to the user to decide what kind of device the Surface is going to be for them. I personally would use it primarily as a tablet, as a hybrid I don't think it would fly with me very well, plus I already have a Macbook Air that is the perfect laptop and I don't think I could ever give up junior anytime soon. A windows 8 tablet though isn't such a bad thing though, I don't own a Surface but I do have a Thinkpad Tablet 2 and I'm quite fond of it. That's why I've been posting so much here because I really don't understand all of the hatred for the Surface 2, okay maybe the RT model but the Pro is actually pretty cool. Very attractive and very well built, fast, up to 8GB RAM and a 512GB SSD. Yes Windows 8 does have some identity crisis issues but once you get used to it and learn all of it's tricks it can actually be a very useful OS. I would love nothing more than a OSX tablet as I'm sorry to iOS is no where near as productive as people around here claim it to be. It's an entertaining device no doubt but I would like to run some desktop apps on my tablets and I really need a file-manager as well as command line to run scripts. It also get's on my nerves when people seem to know so much about this device without ever actually using it for at least a month. I know this is an Apple forum and it's a sin to like anything but Apple products but sometimes it gets to be too much. I would like to own a Surface 2 Pro if I survive my cancer, it will be my congratulations for not dying present to myself.
Ugh, it's the 64-bit ARM processor with a 64-bit OS with a large number of 64-bit apps which WILL BENEFIT from the 64-bit ARM ISA, and as previously noted, Obj-C will especially benefit from the new features of this new ISA. This is what you called a marketing gimmick.
Ugh, it's the 64-bit ARM processor with a 64-bit OS with a large number of 64-bit apps which WILL BENEFIT from the 64-bit ARM ISA, and as previously noted, Obj-C will especially benefit from the new features of this new ISA. This is what you called a marketing gimmick.
What 64bit apps? A few games and Garageband. Yes, I still think it's a marketing ploy and I don't think you know what you are talking about outside of what you've read in the press release. I'm sorry for saying this, I think you need to read up a little more on 64bit CPU's, benefits and disadvantages. Especially for consumer products pertaining to mobile applications.
She's my favorite gadget reviewer, anyway another video that I think is interesting.
1) In 18 months when this is shipping on Android devices with less than 4GB RAM you'll be saying the ISA is better.
3) Which "press release" refers specifically to the ISA and AArch64?
4) There are plenty of 3rd-party apps as the conversion is quite trivial.
5) You show your hatred for Apple by trying to discount any of there apps as qualifying.
6) Here is an example of what you call you a "press release" comment and something that is only achieved by a higher clock rate and not by the new ISA: "The biggest change is an inline retain count, which eliminates the need to perform a costly hash table lookup for retain and release operations in the common case. Since those operations are so common in most Objective-C code, this is a big win. Per-object resource cleanup flags make object deallocation quite a bit faster in certain cases. All in all, the cost of creating and destroying an object is roughly cut in half. Tagged pointers also make for a nice performance win as well as reduced memory use."
1) In 18 months when this is shipping on Android devices with less than 4GB RAM you'll be saying the ISA is better.
2) You're being an idiot (as usual).
3) Which "press release" refers specifically to the ISA and AArch64?
4) There are plenty of 3rd-party apps as the conversion is quite trivial.
5) You show your hatred for Apple by trying to discount any of there apps as qualifying.
6) Here is an example of what you call you a "press release" comment and something that is only achieved by a higher clock rate and not by the new ISA: "The biggest change is an inline retain count, which eliminates the need to perform a costly hash table lookup for retain and release operations in the common case. Since those operations are so common in most Objective-C code, this is a big win. Per-object resource cleanup flags make object deallocation quite a bit faster in certain cases. All in all, the cost of creating and destroying an object is roughly cut in half. Tagged pointers also make for a nice performance win as well as reduced memory use."
I can care less when a Android gadget with 64 bit ships, the only device I still have with that OS is a Nexus 7 and I gave it to my daughter but it will be in the beginning of 2014 not 18 months especially now that Apple released one, Android gadget manufactures have the same access to ARMs reference designs as Apple. Conversion or recompiling 32bit to 64bit does not automatically give the app any performance advantage. I have never called you a name like idiot or anything for that matter and would ask you for the same courtesy. Just because your frustrated with me for not blindingly loving everything that comes from Apple does not give you the right. Hatred for Apple, why do you assume that because I am being critical of Apple means that I hate them, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I wouldn't be here for the last 11 years if I hated using Apple products and I am critical of every product, nothing is perfect in this world. I will not blindly accept everything just because they say it's better, especially when I know better. They are also a computer manufacture, not your friends or family, they are in the business of separating your money from you wallet, treat them as such. It's okay to like a company's goods just don't love them, that's weird. you don't have to worry though, in a few months you can have this board all to your self as I will most likely not be on this planet any longer.
Fine. You're making idiotic comments. Happy now?
Funny how the trolls use absolute statements and go from one extreme to the other. Pointing out that you're foolishly pretending the AArch_64 ISA , which Apple didn't even create, has no benefits outside of "marketing" is not a statement that you should blindly accept everything… yet that's how you see the world.
Forget the DOJ issue, Apple isn't likely to make a one trick pony.
Because not all apps can use touch.
Fine. You're making idiotic comments. Happy now?
Funny how the trolls use absolute statements and go from one extreme to the other. Pointing out that you're foolishly pretending the AArch_64 ISA , which Apple didn't even create, has no benefits outside of "marketing" is not a statement that you should blindly accept everything… yet that's how you see the world.
I'm not going to play with you anymore. Have a good night.
Forget the DOJ issue, Apple isn't likely to make a one trick pony.
Actually all apps can use the touch interface, the only problem I have ran into without having a mouse or trackpad is selecting large portions of text within some desktop applications. I hate touchpads, I always use a mouse.
Microsoft has a docking station for the Surface with all the connections needed. So you can do your work and when finished detach and use it as a tablet and no the keyboard case is not needed for anything.
Why is Microsoft not pushing this more? THIS is what they need to be driving.
Why is Microsoft not pushing this more? THIS is what they need to be driving.
I'm not sure why it's not in there commercials, apparently after reading the comments in this thread it might be helpful. This is an Apple forum and people don't have any interest in exploring further what any other platform has to offer, they would prefer to outline the negatives. I found the docking station after just 1 minute by visiting the Surface product page. It's the same with any platform specific forum, Android, Microsoft, ect. They all think their choices in computer or gadget is supreme. The forums that get the most hits on Appleinsider when Apple isn't releasing new products of course are the ones discussing these other gadgets because people in general like a good bitch session, human nature. There of course is nothing wrong with owning and using the Surface 2, it's a good machine and will accomplish most tasks that people need to do. I would still like to know if anyone in this thread has used a Windows 8 tablet for at least a month.
Exists ? has a place.