Samsung tempers expectations for a 64-bit Android answer to Apple's A7

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  • Reply 21 of 172
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    lkrupp wrote: »
    Because Apple fans are scared shitless of Samsung. If we really had the confidence in Apple we say we do we would’t need to be reassured by hit pieces from Daniel. The fact of the matter is a lot of us are worried about two things. One, Steve Jobs is no longer at the helm and two, could this turn out to be a repeat of the Windows vs Mac episode. Another deep seated concern is whether market share really means something after all. Being an Apple customer and fan since 1982 I have weathered it all.

    The drumbeat for Apple’s doom continues unabated and all the FUD has apparently taken hold in the minds of some fans. That’s why we are seeing articles like this one. It’s all about the insecurities of Apple fandom.
    Bingo. You just said what I was thinking/feeling. All these features/editorials on Samsung and Android seem a bit defensive to me.

    EDIT: I'd also say some of what Samsung shared with investors sounds defensive too. Like they've run out of ideas but want to show they're still "innovating" so they throw out the 64-bit and even higher resolution screens (and on this one no one seems to know what the actual benefits are other than bragging rights on a spec sheet).
  • Reply 22 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    Woo also didn't outline any novel uses of 64-bit computing comparable to the applications Apple launched for the iPhone 5s, which included advanced video game graphics, enhanced audio and video processing apps like Garage Band and iMovie, and Touch ID processing and secure storage. Samsung didn't make any apparent mention of efforts related to fingerprint recognition.



    Instead, the only new example of applications that "require higher computing/bandwidth" depicted in Samsung's presentation was "dual camcordering."

    It's obvious that faster processors will run more demanding applications. What "novel uses" would they need to spell out? Anyone can imagine ARMv8 processors running more compute-intensive applications compared to ARMv7 processors.

  • Reply 23 of 172
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Mark my words- Samsung will release a 64 bit processor on their next galaxy phone and have no apps or OS that supports it. They'll market the hell of it.
  • Reply 24 of 172
    kpomkpom Posts: 660member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    Is this Apple Insider or Samsung insider? Why do we need all these Samsung stories? image

    It's Apple's biggest competitor, and they are driving certain market trends, such as larger screens.

  • Reply 25 of 172
    kpomkpom Posts: 660member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sennen View Post

     

    Samsung can manufacture Apple's 64-bit SOC but can't make their own. Roff.


    They can certainly make their own, after they design it first. Or they can use ARM's reference design, which isn't as optimized as Apple's A7. Making a chip =/= designing one.

  • Reply 26 of 172
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

     

     

    Because Apple fans are scared shitless of Samsung. If we really had the confidence in Apple we say we do we would’t need to be reassured by hit pieces from Daniel. The fact of the matter is a lot of us are worried about two things. One, Steve Jobs is no longer at the helm and two, could this turn out to be a repeat of the Windows vs Mac episode. Another deep seated concern is whether market share really means something after all. Being an Apple customer and fan since 1982 I have weathered it all.

     

    The drumbeat for Apple’s doom continues unabated and all the FUD has apparently taken hold in the minds of some fans. That’s why we are seeing articles like this one. It’s all about the insecurities of Apple fandom.


    I disagree, at least this doesn't hold for myself.

    Samsung is interesting because it drives Apple (and the whole industry for that matter) to produce its best.

    It's interesting to see the difference in perspective and culture and the power of the movement. A long time ago Philips not a small company itself warned via an internal note that Samsung was a force to be reckoned with in the future. And in consumer electronics this came true completely.

    It's interesting to see what Apple does do stop this force and as a consumer I can't wait.

  • Reply 27 of 172
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,251member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

     

     

    Because Apple fans are scared shitless of Samsung. If we really had the confidence in Apple we say we do we would’t need to be reassured by hit pieces from Daniel. The fact of the matter is a lot of us are worried about two things. One, Steve Jobs is no longer at the helm and two, could this turn out to be a repeat of the Windows vs Mac episode. Another deep seated concern is whether market share really means something after all. Being an Apple customer and fan since 1982 I have weathered it all.

     

    The drumbeat for Apple’s doom continues unabated and all the FUD has apparently taken hold in the minds of some fans. That’s why we are seeing articles like this one. It’s all about the insecurities of Apple fandom.


    @Rogifan I can agree with your analysis but I am beginning to see Daniel quoted on other sites, like the recent Fortune article. Too many analysts can't think past their long noses (Pinocchio ref.) yet they finally admitted Daniel was bringing up a valid response that many (almost all) analysts didn't realize. This is why Daniel writes these reports, including ones about Samsung. He is here to make sure analysts understand what's going on so they stop screwing up AAPL so much. What Samsung is and isn't doing is important to Apple's future so having this information should be important to all of us. As for the fandroids frequenting this site, it helps to slap them down a notch when they try and mess with Apple information. It goes both ways. If we don't want Samsung (and other manufacturers) products discussed on this site, then we should be able to get rid on fandroids from this site as well. Can't do the latter so have to do the former.

     

    disclaimer: I finally was able to purchase some AAPL stock after retiring so I am now a stockholder.

  • Reply 28 of 172
    What Samsung did to Apple (copy) the white box venders are going to do to Samsung. Only problem is it will be Samsung vs 10 companies. They need to stop looking at Apple as their competitor and realize nothing they make is special (meaning it's easily duplicated).
  • Reply 29 of 172

    SJ's Rule #1: To be a successful technology company, you have to be 10 years ahead of the competition. Apple is about 5 years ahead right now.

     

    Google is having difficulty copying the finer points of iOS and Samsung is having difficulty copying the technological advances that Apple brings to the table.

     

    Google, Sony, Samsung, Dell, HP, MS all have difficulty innovating and just don't get the advantage of a fully integrated ecosystem that Apple enjoys. From Mail, iPhoto, iMovie, iWork, iOS7 and OSX.

     

    The above companies just don't understand that to be successful you have deliver best in class devices/services, SW, OS's, Retail, Customer Service, iPhones, iPads, MBA's, iMac's, etc.

     

    Otherwise, you might as well just be a Walmart type business and sell cheap crap. Which btw, most companies do.

  • Reply 30 of 172
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    SJ's Rule #1: To be a successful technology company, you have to be 10 years ahead of the competition. Apple is about 5 years ahead right now.

    Google is having difficulty copying the finer points of iOS and Samsung is having difficulty copying the technological advances that Apple brings to the table.

    Google, Sony, Samsung, Dell, HP, MS all have difficulty innovating and just don't get the advantage of a fully integrated ecosystem that Apple enjoys. From Mail, iPhoto, iMovie, iWork, iOS7 and OSX.

    The above companies just don't understand that to be successful you have deliver best in class devices, SW, OS's, Retail, Customer Service, etc.

    Otherwise, you might as well just be a Walmart type business and sell cheap crap. 
    Where exactly is Apple ahead 5 years in mobile software? I wish it were the case. I wish Apple had something that blew Google Now and Google maps out of the water.
  • Reply 31 of 172
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Prasad Velkuri View Post

     

     

    you are missing the point when you say.... "The Note III doesn't have 64bit architecture and it's no slouch in performance terms...." Apple is able to match the speed with just dual core... which means you get very efficient use of battery and the everyday tasks on Note3 are nowhere near iPhone 5s.

     

    Finally it comes down to one point - what is the maximum point which Samsung can go to match iPhone performance? they are already hit by low margins... Samsung has to sell 3-4 times of iPhones to get Apple kind of money. You already know the latest figures of Samsung for high-end phones. they are not growing YOY.


    I actually think smartphone SOCs have hit their 'Core 2 Duo' moment - where performance across the board (A7 vs S800) is good enough to do pretty much everything and there is strong diminishing returns from a everyday usability POV. Sure benchmarks and a few games might see a difference, but it stops making a difference to the mainstream. I don't think anyone using a flagship 2H 2013 phone feels their phone could use more power.

     

    Advancing everyday use is what everyone is holding their breath for - and why wearables are getting so much attention even though they haven't proven anything. What's the next big step forward? It's certainly not Google Glass or the Galaxy Gear in their current iterations.



    The most interesting item from the investor call was foldable displays in 2015. Conceptually I kind of like the idea of having a 5" smartphone while on the go and then be able to unfold it to a 2X size tablet display when I'm seated. Seeing how thin the screens are - this could be kind of cool. Unfortunately all the prototypes shown were closed to the press.

  • Reply 32 of 172
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Samsung is in REAL trouble in 2014 as far as premium smartphones.  It really is a 3 prong attack that will cause them not to slow down growth but lose market share at the high end ($450+ phones).

    1. High end. Apple is really pushing ahead with TouchID, 64 bit, and next year the larger screen.  Samsung will only get the scraps from the $650+ market next year when the bigger screen comes out.
    where is this bigger screen iPhone you speak of? I'd love to see it.
  • Reply 33 of 172
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,480member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

     

     

    Because Apple fans are scared shitless of Samsung. If we really had the confidence in Apple we say we do we would’t need to be reassured by hit pieces from Daniel. The fact of the matter is a lot of us are worried about two things. One, Steve Jobs is no longer at the helm and two, could this turn out to be a repeat of the Windows vs Mac episode. Another deep seated concern is whether market share really means something after all. Being an Apple customer and fan since 1982 I have weathered it all.

     

    The drumbeat for Apple’s doom continues unabated and all the FUD has apparently taken hold in the minds of some fans. That’s why we are seeing articles like this one. It’s all about the insecurities of Apple fandom


    Because we know the public will believe whatever is shoved down their silly minds. Google and Samsung have purchased control of the tech media overall in an effort to slow Apple's growth while competing with them with Apple's tech. These articles serve to correct the distortions and counteract the 10 articles to 1 like this that show up on Apple fan sites like this one (Hint: it has Apple in the title), that seem to praise anything Google or Samsung and proclaim Apple's doom.   

  • Reply 34 of 172
    cnocbui wrote: »

    That has to be nearly the 20th time you have said that or something similar.  We got your whinge months ago.

    He still posts on every story. On a subject he implies he isn't interested in.

    I enjoy Daniel's industry info posts. He was the first reporter (he provides enough facts to be called reporter instead of blogger) to clarify for me the importance of 64bit OS architecture in the mobile space.

    Apple confirmed his reporting with the high performance of their latest product releases.

    I'm interested in the entire tech industry and appreciate AI's broad scope.

    I'm surprised that Daniel hasn't parlayed his leet skillz into a position of tech punditry, but I'm also glad in a way...
  • Reply 35 of 172
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    lkrupp wrote: »
    Because Apple fans are scared shitless of Samsung. If we really had the confidence in Apple we say we do we would’t need to be reassured by hit pieces from Daniel. The fact of the matter is a lot of us are worried about two things. One, Steve Jobs is no longer at the helm and two, could this turn out to be a repeat of the Windows vs Mac episode. Another deep seated concern is whether market share really means something after all. Being an Apple customer and fan since 1982 I have weathered it all.

    The drumbeat for Apple’s doom continues unabated and all the FUD has apparently taken hold in the minds of some fans. That’s why we are seeing articles like this one. It’s all about the insecurities of Apple fandom.

    Wrong. It's because we like to see what the competitors are doing. We don't live in a bubble.
    rogifan wrote: »
    So? I come here to read Apple news. Not cherry picked "festures" or "editorials" about Samsung.

    You clicked on the link. If you didn't want to read it, don't click on the link.
  • Reply 36 of 172
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prasad Velkuri View Post

     

     

    you are missing the point when you say.... "The Note III doesn't have 64bit architecture and it's no slouch in performance terms...." Apple is able to match the speed with just dual core... which means you get very efficient use of battery and the everyday tasks on Note3 are nowhere near iPhone 5s.

     

    Finally it comes down to one point - what is the maximum point which Samsung can go to match iPhone performance? they are already hit by low margins... Samsung has to sell 3-4 times of iPhones to get Apple kind of money. You already know the latest figures of Samsung for high-end phones. they are not growing YOY.


     

    You are right, the battery performance of the Note 3 is nowhere near the 5s.  In GSMarena's  battery test the Note 3 scores a 75Hr endurance rating vs a 54Hr rating for the 5s.

     

    Isn't it remarkable how Samsung electronics can post a 13.1% increase in profit (Q3) over 2012 vs Apple's 25.1% profit decrease for the same period on the basis of these supposedly low margins.  The notion that Samsung's margins are razor thin are utter nonsense in the face of their financial performance.  It is BS in it's purest form.

     

    So, for Samsung's profits to have grown so much on near static sales, their margins must have increased substantially - n'est-ce pas?

  • Reply 37 of 172
    sog35 wrote: »
    Samsung is in REAL trouble in 2014 as far as premium smartphones.  It really is a 3 prong attack that will cause them not to slow down growth but lose market share at the high end ($450+ phones).

    1. High end. Apple is really pushing ahead with TouchID, 64 bit, and next year the larger screen.  Samsung will only get the scraps from the $650+ market next year when the bigger screen comes out.

    2. Mid-level.  The one advantage the S3 had was the large screen.  But now all the other Android/Windows phones have large screen models.  So why would you go Samsung if the Nexus/HTC/Motorola/LG have the same size screen and basically the same OS? 

    3. Low-level.  Its a fact that Chinese makers are gaining steam.  Especially Xiaomi which produces a phone that has better build quality and style than the S4 with simular specs but cost half the price.  Xiaomi is selling phones at a loss and plans to make money on the services/software it sells.  Then we have Amazon who will simularly release a cheap phone that undercuts Samsung.  Bottom line is Samsung cannot compete with these companies that are willing to lose money on every single phone they sell.

    The only way Samsung can stem the tide on the high end is to bring out a game changing technology like they did with the bigger screen of the Galaxy S2.  Without that they will get crushed from all sides: high, mid, and low.

    And on a more fundamental note, one must wonder what will be the state of multitouch phones for Google, Samsung and others after the Rockstar Consortium trial has gotten underway. All competitors other than Apple and Microsoft (and a few others) may suddenly find themselves in a very deep ditch.

    Just imagine if Rockstar is able to enforce a $7-10 per phone/device licensing fee, or a $5 fee for every search or ad click should their multiple patents score them an across the board win?
  • Reply 38 of 172
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post



    What Samsung did to Apple (copy) the white box venders are going to do to Samsung. Only problem is it will be Samsung vs 10 companies. They need to stop looking at Apple as their competitor and realize nothing they make is special (meaning it's easily duplicated).



    It is not easy for competitors to 'duplicate' Samsung's products as Samsung hold a lot of patents and no one can make the base components in competing volume, quality and price.

     

    Just look at the lengths their competitors have had to go to to steal their large panel OLED TV tech - major scale industrial espionage and hijacking OLED TV display models in-transit to trade shows.

  • Reply 39 of 172
    rogifan wrote: »
    Where exactly is Apple ahead 5 years in mobile software?

    Silly rabbit, trix are for kids.

    E C O S Y S T E M. N

    obody else has iTunes Store running / dominating so many different platforms.

    Nobody else has Xcode with its processor-agnostic dev environment.

    MS has Office, but the primary platform for that (PC) is receding.

    Nobody uses office because they want to (certainly not office 2013); it's forced on users as a "standard".

    Sharepoint is an impressive MS product for "the enterprise" but expensive.

    Apple is driving tremendous disruption across the tech spectrum and benefiting from that change. They aren't afraid to cannibalize their own markets. No other single tech vendor manages to do this profitably.

    Apple is light years ahead of the competition because their culture is "it's better to be a pirate than join the navy".

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-Pczu422bmhbb2t/the_meaning_of_life_1983_the_very_big_corporation_of_america/

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-Pczu4444th2mm/the_meaning_of_life_1983_the_very_big_corporation_of_america_part_2/
  • Reply 40 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    Where exactly is Apple ahead 5 years in mobile software? I wish it were the case. I wish Apple had something that blew Google Now and Google maps out of the water.

    I understand. Yes, there are examples where Apple is not that far ahead. iCloud vs. the superior DropBox, Apple Notes vs. EverNote, PDF Shrink vs. Apple's Preview all come to mind.

     

    However, overall, Apple does more things well than not. I can't say that about the other tech companies.

     

    Even though Apple falls short in Maps, Notes, iCloud, I still prefer to use the Apple SW because of the integration and everything works across all my devices. That goes along way.

     

    I don't like Google's anything (I'm forced to use it for Search). Plus, Apple is constantly improving their offerings. Again, I can't say that about other companies.

     

    Best

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