Apple's iPhone 5c boasts most available advertised memory, Samsung Galaxy S4 declared 'biggest memor

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  • Reply 61 of 86
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post

     

    I'd contend that file management isn't so much an important aspect of desktop computing as a holdover from an era when it was a necessary liability (compromise) to make computers usable.

     

    ...

    What think us on this?


     

    We all create new, save or delete files every day on ours computer, after all the core function of an OS or DOS is to manage files and launch apps. 

     

    If I remember well my computer history and how Apple "took" Xerox document preparation system idea and made the Desktop paradigm around it.  I think the needs for managing and storing different type of media needed for most projects was the basic needs the graphical Desktop addressed so brilliantly that is still the norm for all desktop computer. 

  • Reply 62 of 86
    This is a stupid comparison since on most Android phones, including the Galaxy S series, you can install whatever size SD card you want. Apple should get with the program. Oh, that's right, they don't give you access to the files system because they think we're not smart enough to navigate a folder hierarchy.
  • Reply 63 of 86
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,055member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

     

    I think there is a generation misunderstanding here.   Mass Storage is a kind of memory like the CD-ROM and WORM acronym pointed out.  RAM can be a storage too with ramdisk apps, same as ROM can be paged like ram or access like a volume by the hardware.  

     

    moderne computer as a lot more memory types than RAM and Storage alone. Register, Caches, VRAM, Pram, Firmware... are all differents type of memory present in all computer and mobile devices.  Question is more if the OS see it as a volumes or not. 


     

    To be clear, I don't misunderstand any of the above. :) What I'm saying is in a casual conversation or say a headline to a blog article in which one doesn't have the time or space to qualify what they mean by "memory", generally speaking memory refers to RAM which is separate from the "other thing" :) which is storage capacity, whether that storage is made from flash memory or cassette tapes or whatever. The point being "memory hog" makes me think of Safari gobbling up most of my 1GB of RAM, not how much space it occupies of my 64GB of storage.

     

    And yes this is a bit pedantic, but maybe worth it if you, like I, have spent far too much time explaining the difference to people who, for example, tell me they need more RAM for their machine because their MP3 collection is using up all their memory. :)

  • Reply 64 of 86
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post

     

    RAM is memory allocated to I/O processes of the CPU. Storage is space! Whether, it is an HDD, Flash memory or SD memory. It is used to "Store" data in it's digital form. Whether it is an .exe or jpeg file, it is a digital representation of that file. Applications then read that "file" and convert it to a image or an executable binary image in the cases I described as digital files. 

    RAM = Random Access Memory for temporary bit data thoughput.

    Storage = Dive space available to store digital form data. (1's and 0's)

    16 gigs of storage, refers to how much storage is installed on the system prior to OS install and 2 gigs of RAM refers to how much Random Access Memory is available for the CPU to use for temporary bit data throughput usage and storage. You can't save a copy of tree.jpg in the system RAM. 

    Masters in Computer Science - UC Berkely class of 79


     

    I don't know where you've found those definitions, but those are wrong.  Your RAM definition applies more to CPU Register or caches than RAM and your storage definition also applies to RAM where data is store in digital form (1s and 0s).  Have you ever heard of ram drives?

  • Reply 65 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post



    Okay, the only reason I am here is because a card popped up on my Google Now about this article. First off, it is incorrect because you didn't specify which carrier GS4 you tested. The true test would be against a GT-i9505 Galaxy S4 Uncarrier unbranded Samsung phone just like an iPhone is.

    I hate to break the bad news to you but my GT-i9505 International version 16 gig S4 without any bloatware has 12.9 Gigabytes of free space out of the box.

    Next, Samsung's Touchwiz version of JB 4.3 allows migration of 95% of installed apps to the SD Card. You should really specify this. Google has absolutely no control over how Samsung manages their app storage techniques.

    This whole article is false and just goes to show that you are biased against your own testing methods whether they benefit you or not. You just want Apple to be superior but they are not. My GS4 runs circles around my next door neighbors 5s. But then again I have a true out of Samsung GS4 just like the iPhone comes with no additional installed apps or software. I have rooted my phone and removed a bunch of Samsung crapware and now am showing 13.3 gigs of free space after I moved all movable apps to my SD Card.

    Quit being so 1 sided. I know this is an Apple site but when you start falsifying comparisons it makes you look bad.

     

    The article (including graphics) is mostly scraped from 3rd party sites, so you're kinda' barking up the wrong tree if you're worried about attributing responsibility for testing procedures.

     

    Maybe I missed something, but I'm curious though, how do you rectify this (emphasis added):

    Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post



    I hate to break the bad news to you but my GT-i9505 International version 16 gig S4 without any bloatware has 12.9 Gigabytes of free space out of the box.


    And this:




    Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post



    I have rooted my phone and removed a bunch of Samsung crapware and now am showing 13.3 gigs of free space after I moved all movable apps to my SD Card.

  • Reply 66 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

     

     

    We all create new, save or delete files every day on ours computer, after all the core function of an OS or DOS is to manage files and launch apps. 

     

    If I remember well my computer history and how Apple "took" Xerox document preparation system idea and made the Desktop paradigm around it.  I think the needs for managing and storing different type of media needed for most projects was the basic needs the graphical Desktop addressed so brilliantly that is still the norm for all desktop computer. 


    No argument on the history.

     

    That said, the GUI is just a different representation of the notion we worked with before it existed, using the command line to manually manage the files. The mouse-click replaced the keystroke. User input is different but the underlying idea is the same. It's a digital translation of a concept from the physical world. It was a good paradigm while we were working on developing the underlying systems, but there's a better way to access digital data than to treat it like a physical object, and now we have hardware that can realize that new paradigm in a meaningful and practical way.

     

    My proposition is that we really shouldn't need to manually manage the "files" at all - the OS should be doing that. As an end-user we should just be asking the OS for data that matches our criteria.

     

    To use my previous example as a basis; there's nothing intrinsically useful to the computer about naming a file "MexicoVacation_001.jpg", that's really just for us anyway, as far as the file system goes, an inode number is infinitely more useful for locating the file data. In fact, I can put all my expenses from the vacation in an Excel spreadsheet with that exact name - heck, I can even have multiple files with identical names in different directories, none of which have anything to do with Mexico, vacations or images. Let me deal with meaningful metadata, make natural queries and leave the nitty-gritty of where and how to store raw data to the OS, it's much more suited to that task than I am.

  • Reply 67 of 86
    While many smartphones advertise 16 gigabytes of capacity, none of them actually offer that much storage to the end user. But both Apple's iPhone 5c and iPhone 5s offer among the most advertised space out of the box, while Samsung's Galaxy S4 comes in last place.

    But but but... Samsung S4 customers don't need more space, all they use their phones for is texting and email... and Angry Birds.
  • Reply 68 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post





    You just want Apple to be superior but they are not.


     

    Except they are.

     
    My GS4 runs circles around my next door neighbors 5s.

     

    Except it doesn’t. It’s really simple to understand. Go read about the products.

     


    I think that Tallest Skil has my favourite retorts.

     

    I also believe that with the widely available memory expansion options that are out there like cloud options, wi-fi drives and hard cases with expandable memory, sd cards are no longer an acceptable feature for Android fans to gloat about. It seems that these third-party manufacturers recognize Apple's superior products and are providing a wide variety of options to support them.

  • Reply 69 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post



     

    My proposition is that we really shouldn't need to manually manage the "files" at all - the OS should be doing that. As an end-user we should just be asking the OS for data that matches our criteria.


    You're absolutely right on this point. However, it's a lot trickier than you realise because you still need to have the concept of folders.

     

    Lets say for example, you want to find a video in your videos list. Well then we can just look for any file with a mime type of "video/*" surely. Except no because you probably don't want those videos cached from Youtube, or the intro video for an app. Ok well perhaps we can search only the user's 'personal' store. But perhaps they don't want those 10s intro clips they rendered as part of a longer video, or perhaps they don't want certain personal videos to show up immediately.

     

    In reality the correct solution is a system of semi automated tagging and a tree type (ie folder) organisation system. Apple is probably the closest in this regard and show a real willingness to get rid of the classic filesystem. I worry they're making it too limited though, and I don't want to see OSX becoming iOS in this regard.

     

    There are obviously a bunch of similar solutions for Linux but they're hardly suitable for the end user.

     

    Probably the closest prototype I've seen is Google's new file picker dialog. It's buried in the OS and not really used directly in many places but it allows you to select a particular app or folder or storage and Android's media scanner picks up metadata. It's definitely still quite a way off what I would consider a modern filing system though.

  • Reply 70 of 86
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post

     

    You're absolutely right on this point. However, it's a lot trickier than you realise because you still need to have the concept of folders.

     

    Lets say for example, you want to find a video in your videos list. Well then we can just look for any file with a mime type of "video/*" surely. Except no because you probably don't want those videos cached from Youtube, or the intro video for an app. Ok well perhaps we can search only the user's 'personal' store. But perhaps they don't want those 10s intro clips they rendered as part of a longer video, or perhaps they don't want certain personal videos to show up immediately.

     

    In reality the correct solution is a system of semi automated tagging and a tree type (ie folder) organisation system. Apple is probably the closest in this regard and show a real willingness to get rid of the classic filesystem. I worry they're making it too limited though, and I don't want to see OSX becoming iOS in this regard.

     

    There are obviously a bunch of similar solutions for Linux but they're hardly suitable for the end user.

     

    Probably the closest prototype I've seen is Google's new file picker dialog. It's buried in the OS and not really used directly in many places but it allows you to select a particular app or folder or storage and Android's media scanner picks up metadata. It's definitely still quite a way off what I would consider a modern filing system though.


     

    iOS solution of this is to delegate the file managing troubles to Apps.  They wanted to change old habit to search for a document first and launch the related apps by opening documents from the Finder.  Instead, on iOS each apps manage their own files and if you want to view one document with another Apps, you've got a "share" button that send a copy of the files within another apps on the devices.  So each apps become a "folder" and offert their own way of managing their contents. 

     

    I agree, this is not the optimal way for working on a project that need many media of different types like desktop computing are means to, but for media consumption this is a way to avoid the needs of a file manager. 

  • Reply 71 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

     

     

    iOS solution of this is to delegate the file managing troubles to Apps.  They wanted to change old habit to search for a document first and launch the related apps by opening documents from the Finder.  Instead, on iOS each apps manage their own files and if you want to view one document with another Apps, you've got a "share" button that send a copy of the files within another apps on the devices.  So each apps become a "folder" and offert their own way of managing their contents. 

     

    I agree, this is not the optimal way for working on a project that need many media of different types like desktop computing are means to, but for media consumption this is a way to avoid the needs of a file manager. 


    Android too takes a similar approach. Apps have their own storage areas but you can browse through them if you have the appropriate permission. There's also a share option but it works a little differently, although I understand iOS is moving towards the Android model as it is pretty impressive.

     

    I wish I had a perfect solution for all use cases, because I'd sell it. My existing prototypes work surprisingly well, but they are difficult to use. Nobody wants to go to /Photos/AND/Public/AND/Tagged/Beach/ to find what they want.

  • Reply 72 of 86
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post

     

    Android too takes a similar approach. Apps have their own storage areas but you can browse through them if you have the appropriate permission. There's also a share option but it works a little differently, although I understand iOS is moving towards the Android model as it is pretty impressive.

     

    I wish I had a perfect solution for all use cases, because I'd sell it. My existing prototypes work surprisingly well, but they are difficult to use. Nobody wants to go to /Photos/AND/Public/AND/Tagged/Beach/ to find what they want.


     

    I think this was unnecessary trollish for an otherwise OK post.  iOS doesn't follow anyone but their own path since his introduction a year before Android. 

  • Reply 73 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

     

     

    I think this was unnecessary trollish for an otherwise OK post.  iOS doesn't follow anyone but their own path since his introduction a year before Android. 




    I don't think that's particularly trolly. iOS introduced a notification bar that's quite similar to Android's too. It's ridiculous to think they haven't adopted good ideas from other vendors just like everyone else does. They certainly adopted many ideas from the jailbreak community, for another example.

  • Reply 74 of 86
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    bigmac2 wrote: »
    I think this was unnecessary trollish for an otherwise OK post.  iOS doesn't follow anyone but their own path since his introduction a year before Android. 

    One trollish post begat another trollish post.
  • Reply 75 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    One trollish post begat another trollish post.

    Can you be more specific about what is trollish about my post? I really don't want to come across as a dick but I have used Android and the system of Intents/Actions/etc is really excellent. It solves some problems people currently have on iOS and I understand Apple is extending the uri handling to be able to function in a similar manner.

     

    I don't think it can be a troll just to mention a competitor has a superior feature, and I'm certainly not trying to slate Apple's products in general or anything.

  • Reply 76 of 86
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post

     



    I don't think that's particularly trolly. iOS introduced a notification bar that's quite similar to Android's too. It's ridiculous to think they haven't adopted good ideas from other vendors just like everyone else does. They certainly adopted many ideas from the jailbreak community, for another example.


     

    You know whole "Apple stole the notification bar from Android" args start to be as old as the + 30 years old meme of Apple got a one bouton mouse only...   It amused me how people dismissed so easily the order of events.

  • Reply 77 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

     

     

    You know whole "Apple stole the notification bar from Android" args start to be as old as the + 30 years old meme of Apple got a one bouton mouse only...   It amused me how people dismissed so easily the order of events.




    I didn't say "stole". I really don't understand this forum sometimes. Did Android have a notification bar and similar notifications before iOS? Yes.

  • Reply 78 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post

     

    Android too takes a similar approach. Apps have their own storage areas but you can browse through them if you have the appropriate permission. 


    This is not quite accurate. An app's private storage area, just like on iOS, can never be accessed directly by other apps. However, apps can also opt to access and store data in a public directory that is accessible by all apps which declare the appropriate permissions (READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE and WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE, to be precise). This public directory is typically used for storing files that are typically accessed by more than one app, such as movies or downloaded pdfs, and is the only area you can explore if you install a file browser.

  • Reply 79 of 86
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    bigmac2 wrote: »
    You know whole "Apple stole the notification bar from Android" args start to be as old as the + 30 years old meme of Apple got a one bouton mouse only...   <span style="line-height:1.4em;">It amused me how people dismissed s</span>
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">o</span>
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;"> easily the order of events.</span>

    I would say borrowed it's implementation and modified it. Very few things are created in a vacuum from nothing, even if one builds something to be unlike another thing then the second thing helped build the the first thing.
  • Reply 80 of 86
    You're absolutely right on this point. However, it's a lot trickier than you realise because you still need to have the concept of folders.

    <snipped because I agree with all of it except the above statement>

    Tricky = yes. Folder concept = unnecessary.

    The hierarchal data system was most definitely needed at the time it was developed and with the hardware available at the time.... for nothing else other than speed and using a paradigm that people could use and make sense of learning how to translate "analog" tasks to "digital" workflows.

    In the very near future, we will have the technology to be using basically "living" objects as storage mediums. You may have heard of "organic storage". In that realm data itself is moving around at the speed of electricity itself i.e. no moving parts. SD and flash storage 2.0 so to speak. At the time that becomes feasible, we need really only a better way to catalogue the data and how to access it... rather than how it's stored and in what kind of filing system. Meta-tagging does that, along with fluid tagging via time-stamps and predictive usage scenarios.

    The storage itself learns from you're usage patterns, and pushes data "globules" to the forefront via "natural language and predictable action sets".

    The easiest way to understand this is to look into data science techniques and algorithms used today by Twitter, FB and Co. to push and even predict trends.

    Visually speaking, it's basically "word and tag clouds" on serious steroids :)
    bigmac2 wrote: »
    iOS solution of this is to delegate the file managing troubles to Apps.  They wanted to change old habit to search for a document first and launch the related apps by opening documents from the Finder.  Instead, on iOS each apps manage their own files and if you want to view one document with another Apps, you've got a "share" button that send a copy of the files within another apps on the devices.  So each apps become a "folder" and offert their own way of managing their contents. 

    I agree, this is not the optimal way for working on a project that need many media of different types like desktop computing are means to, but for media consumption this is a way to avoid the needs of a file manager. 

    Think "meta-data (base)". My take on a separate thread a few days ago.

    Dynamic meta-tagging will be used in the future to keep projects together. The system will know when, where and how you added a picture to a document. It will know where you edited the picture and with which app. And will also know where, when and in how many places you can access the picture (incl. parent RAW and sibling JPGs), the document itself and/or derivatives of it that have been "published" (JPG, PDF, DropBox, iCloud, email, etc.).

    A peek into this kind of workflow TODAY can be found if you venture into using the new Final Cut Pro X. THE most important part of learning FCPX is to understand the "meta-tagging" i.e. the filing system. If you don't get that down in your head, you will be lost(!).

    Also, Mavericks and Apple's fusion drive make use of "floating data" and internal meta-tagging to move most used apps and data to the fastest portion of a disk. In the case of Fusion Drives, to the SD portion. In addition, Apple as well as other companies like Oracle (formerly Sun), Microsoft and Google, are working on a new file system based on ZFS and ZFS+. Without going into details, the tech is very similar to what Apple does with FD.

    As always, Apple is leading the revolution and innovation... by "forcing" it's users to learn how to walk before they can run with cloud-sync, iTunes, App Stores, and other apps and suites like FCPX and iWorks. Baby-steps into the future of computing. Apple is getting people used to the idea of using "libraries" i.e. databases of information and moving "data cells" around (searching and sorting) to suit their needs. They are NOT doing this because they're big meanies and hate their users by a long shot!

    On the other hand, Microsoft and Google's OEMs are giving people far too many choices to work around the eventuality of the tech we will be seeing in the near future. Neither of those companies nor their hardware OEMs think about educating their customers and fans, rather than just sell them what they want tomorrow for as much as they can. What they are truly doing is selling their customer base down the river, because boatloads of engineers at these companies know exactly where we're heading and what we will be using for hardware. They just don't have the pull with the bean-counters at their respective co's like the ones running Apple do. Yes! Engineers "run" Apple.... and to a similar degree, same at Google. That's why MS is having such a hard time of it these days.... but I digress... sorry.

    Every single day I have to show people what sync is all about, why an iTunes or iPhoto library is far, FAR more powerful than dropping MP3's or JPGS into a folder somewhere. Every single person that get's that "light bulb" moment after throwing away what they "knew" about PCs or folders... is stunned that this is available TODAY and is so freakin' easy to bend one piece of data, into any shape or form you want to find it again and use it... NOW. Not after you've waded thru a 100 folders for the last few minutes looking for "DCS_127"... because you have at least 25 of them with that name but you also know you sent an invitation with it to Uncle Bill like a year ago(???) OR the other scenario: I think it's kinda like a mix between grunge, rock and pop somewhere between 1995 - 2001 (??????). Was it Napster I pulled it from or Limewire?? Let's just look for it on YouTube.

    Congratulations: the largest meta-database the world has ever known comes into play, but many decide to reject the very principle and tech behind simple "search" on their device? NOTE: I have attempted to ask people how they think Google or their search engine of choice finds all that stuff across a trillion or so pages on the internet... and so fast. The blank stare I receive in return is normally priceless :smokey:

    I didn't say "stole". I really don't understand this forum sometimes. Did Android have a notification bar and similar notifications before iOS? Yes.

    No... they did not. iOS hat it first on Jailbroken iPhones. The concept was taken, expanded upon and added to Android. About a year later or so the developer of the Notification Center on Cydia started working for Apple. Google it.
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