I don't give a rat's ass if you think ``It's legal, no laws were broken'' is ethical. It's getting effing old. These rates are the very reason corporations are strong-holding the direction of all US Policies.
Pay your goddamn share of taxes, not this tax havens for every corporation who can spread them out across the globe!
If Apple paid "its share of taxes", then it would have to raise the prices of its products to maintain the same level of after-tax income, which means that sales would go down, which means that the companies everyone here loves to hate (Google, Samsung) would win. And before you say "well, but they would be paying higher taxes too", remember: if they do, they just pass the costs on to the consumer, but in the case of Samsung (which is, basically, Korea Inc), the government would be happy to keep their taxes low.
Do you actually disagree with anything I say, or are you just having digestive problems?
No I am mocking you. Up until exactly 20 minutes ago you didn't know that Ireland wasn't in the UK, now you are an expert on its tax. I'm impressed you can type. Good typing.
No I am mocking you. Up until exactly 20 minutes ago you didn't know that Ireland wasn't in the UK, now you are an expert on its tax. I'm impressed you can type. Good typing.
Reading comprehension issues? Look back and check on who did not know Ireland was not in the UK (more precisely, whether it was me). I am afraid it is yourself you are mocking.
Reading comprehension issues? Look back and check on who did not know Ireland was not in the UK (more precisely, whether it was me). I am afraid it is yourself you are mocking.
Touché. Ok, as I have been arguing morally this money belongs to the US. I don't think Apple owes Ireland for IP and Ireland won't raise taxes. We are largely on the same page. Sorry for the mistakes.
South Africa? The Caymans? Switzerland? Russia? Do you really think no one would want to enhance their revenue?
Any subsequent export from these countries into the EU would involve a customs tariff. If the EU forced a European wide tax do you thing every company would leave? The US corp tax is 35%.
Touché. Ok, as I have been arguing morally this money belongs to the US. I don't think Apple owes Ireland for IP and Ireland won't raise taxes. We are largely on the same page. Sorry for the mistakes.
No problem I completely agree that the IP thing is a tax dodge, but what I am saying is that we live in a world governed by law (not the same as justice), and Apple had very qualified lawyers draw up the papers to indicate that Apple Ireland owns the IP, which it licenses to Apple US (or whatever it is called). Similarly, for tax purposes, Apple's cash hoard is held by Braeburn capital, which is domiciled in Nevada, and hence not subject to (quite high) California taxes. A dodge? Yes, but a perfectly legal one. I believe it would be quite difficult and time consuming to change the law, which is not an argument that it should not be done, but simply an argument that Apple will not be losing any sleep (especially as, when things get serious, they have a few billion dollars to find SuperPACs with).
No problem I completely agree that the IP thing is a tax dodge, but what I am saying is that we live in a world governed by law (not the same as justice), and Apple had very qualified lawyers draw up the papers to indicate that Apple Ireland owns the IP, which it licenses to Apple US (or whatever it is called). Similarly, for tax purposes, Apple's cash hoard is held by Braeburn capital, which is domiciled in Nevada, and hence not subject to (quite high) California taxes. A dodge? Yes, but a perfectly legal one. I believe it would be quite difficult and time consuming to change the law, which is not an argument that it should not be done, but simply an argument that Apple will not be losing any sleep (especially as, when things get serious, they have a few billion dollars to find SuperPACs with).
Yes I agree that the laws won't change. Ireland won't do it unilaterally. The EU will find it impossible to agree on a number, and to plug all the loopholes, and even if they did I don't think Apple would leave the EU ( and therefore Ireland) but that's moot.
The best outcome is a tax holiday in the US - bring the money home. US senators should realise that low tax elsewhere means more potential tax in the US on any potential repatriation, because of double taxation agreements.
You obviously are somewhat clue deficient. If Apple paid "its share of taxes", then it would have to raise the prices of its products to maintain the same level of after-tax income, which means that sales would go down, which means that the companies everyone here loves to hate (Google, Samsung) would win. And before you say "well, but they would be paying higher taxes too", remember: if they do, they just pass the costs on to the consumer, but in the case of Samsung (which is, basically, Korea Inc), the government would be happy to keep their taxes low.
To drive the point a bit further: these tax scams are bad because to perpetrate them you have to have a fairly large and wealthy company, so this poses a barrier to entry for startups. On the other hand, consumers would certainly not benefit in the short term from Apple paying higher taxes.
Any subsequent export from these countries into the EU would involve a customs tariff. If the EU forced a European wide tax do you thing every company would leave? The US corp tax is 35%.
A customs tariff would bring about a trade war, everything made in the EU would have equivalent tariffs applied when exported, say to the US.
Then there are the major EU corporations that pioneered all this tax haven stuff, Nestle, Philips the big EU based multinational drug companies.
There is no way in hell that the EU would do anything to cause major price increases across all their exports.
If Apple paid "its share of taxes", then it would have to raise the prices of its products to maintain the same level of after-tax income, which means that sales would go down, which means that the companies everyone here loves to hate (Google, Samsung) would win. And before you say "well, but they would be paying higher taxes too", remember: if they do, they just pass the costs on to the consumer, but in the case of Samsung (which is, basically, Korea Inc), the government would be happy to keep their taxes low.
Don't talk about mathematics and Economies of scale to me. It gets fucking old reading about how US and EU Corporations will just relocate. I'm advocating the entire G20 Summit do what it was charged to do: Fix the tax dodging at fair and reasonable rates.
Apple paying 0.6% in taxes is fucking pathetic.
When I worked at NeXT and Apple Engineering there was no fucking way we only paid so little. This hording of accounting practices comes after Fred Anderson left and Peter Oppenheimer arrived.
Shit, we paid $900k/month on network and communications services at NeXT before the merger. Spare me on how accounting practices work. Any Engineer worth a shit laughs at the simplicity of Finance and Accounting. It's clear the tax codes are fucked up.
By the way, this ``they'll pass the costs onto the consumer'' is a fucking red herring that would not pan out [pass the smell test] once the Tax Code is fixed. Tax Law would strictly forbid such egregious practices.
The real loser is the institutional investors who spend billions lobbying for this never to happen.
Well actually the server is probably in Ireland. Or holland. All the UK is providing is consumers, not roads, police or healthcare for the non existant Apple headquarters, or data center in the UK. ( I think the location of the server doesn't matter.)
Now who do you think should pay tax on
1) Economist ads served from the UK sold in the US
2) guardian ads served from the UK sold in the US
3) online sales of GTA served from a UK server sold across the world.
4) a UK app dev who sells £1m in any year.
If VAT is paid where sold the world economy would collapse. App devs would have to return VAT records to every country in the world they sell to.
( in all of these cases the IP is also from the UK).
A customs tariff would bring about a trade war, everything made in the EU would have equivalent tariffs applied when exported, say to the US.
Then there are the major EU corporations that pioneered all this tax haven stuff, Nestle, Philips the big EU based multinational drug companies.
There is no way in hell that the EU would do anything to cause major price increases across all their exports.
The EU has tariffs already. It's not going to worry about a trade war with the Carribean. In any case most workers in Europe will stay in Europe. But I don't think the EU can normalise taxes across the EU.
South Africa? The Caymans? Switzerland? Russia? Do you really think no one would want to enhance their revenue?
I'd think some of the new eastern members to EU would be happy to see someone like Apple move into their country. What a shot in the arm it would be for them!
I'd think some of the new eastern members to EU would be happy to see someone like Apple move into their country. What a shot in the arm it would be for them!
Once again. Ireland will increase taxes when or (a very big if) the EU forces it to. If the EU can apply a general corporation tax then where is the advantage to moving within the EU?
Comments
They are paying tax in Ireland, at an attractive rate and their 4,000 employees are also paying tax.
Apple could shut down and pull out if Ireland attempts to extort more money.
"4,000 sacked due to government action" would make a good headline.
Tea spills as politicians fall off their chairs.
This kind of crap just gets old:
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/536731/20140131/apple-inc-aapl-australia-taxes.htm#.UuwtWT08eEI
I don't give a rat's ass if you think ``It's legal, no laws were broken'' is ethical. It's getting effing old. These rates are the very reason corporations are strong-holding the direction of all US Policies.
Pay your goddamn share of taxes, not this tax havens for every corporation who can spread them out across the globe!
If Apple paid "its share of taxes", then it would have to raise the prices of its products to maintain the same level of after-tax income, which means that sales would go down, which means that the companies everyone here loves to hate (Google, Samsung) would win. And before you say "well, but they would be paying higher taxes too", remember: if they do, they just pass the costs on to the consumer, but in the case of Samsung (which is, basically, Korea Inc), the government would be happy to keep their taxes low.
Expert on Ireland now are we?
Do you actually disagree with anything I say, or are you just having digestive problems?
If Ireland acts, which would only happen with changes to EU government law, then where would Apple go?
No I am mocking you. Up until exactly 20 minutes ago you didn't know that Ireland wasn't in the UK, now you are an expert on its tax. I'm impressed you can type. Good typing.
EDIT: oh that wasn't you. Disregard.
If Ireland acts, which would only happen with changes to EU government law, then where would Apple go?
South Africa? The Caymans? Switzerland? Russia? Do you really think no one would want to enhance their revenue?
No I am mocking you. Up until exactly 20 minutes ago you didn't know that Ireland wasn't in the UK, now you are an expert on its tax. I'm impressed you can type. Good typing.
Reading comprehension issues? Look back and check on who did not know Ireland was not in the UK (more precisely, whether it was me). I am afraid it is yourself you are mocking.
Touché. Ok, as I have been arguing morally this money belongs to the US. I don't think Apple owes Ireland for IP and Ireland won't raise taxes. We are largely on the same page. Sorry for the mistakes.
Any subsequent export from these countries into the EU would involve a customs tariff. If the EU forced a European wide tax do you thing every company would leave? The US corp tax is 35%.
Touché. Ok, as I have been arguing morally this money belongs to the US. I don't think Apple owes Ireland for IP and Ireland won't raise taxes. We are largely on the same page. Sorry for the mistakes.
No problem
I completely agree that the IP thing is a tax dodge, but what I am saying is that we live in a world governed by law (not the same as justice), and Apple had very qualified lawyers draw up the papers to indicate that Apple Ireland owns the IP, which it licenses to Apple US (or whatever it is called). Similarly, for tax purposes, Apple's cash hoard is held by Braeburn capital, which is domiciled in Nevada, and hence not subject to (quite high) California taxes. A dodge? Yes, but a perfectly legal one. I believe it would be quite difficult and time consuming to change the law, which is not an argument that it should not be done, but simply an argument that Apple will not be losing any sleep (especially as, when things get serious, they have a few billion dollars to find SuperPACs with).
Yes I agree that the laws won't change. Ireland won't do it unilaterally. The EU will find it impossible to agree on a number, and to plug all the loopholes, and even if they did I don't think Apple would leave the EU ( and therefore Ireland) but that's moot.
The best outcome is a tax holiday in the US - bring the money home. US senators should realise that low tax elsewhere means more potential tax in the US on any potential repatriation, because of double taxation agreements.
You obviously are somewhat clue deficient. If Apple paid "its share of taxes", then it would have to raise the prices of its products to maintain the same level of after-tax income, which means that sales would go down, which means that the companies everyone here loves to hate (Google, Samsung) would win. And before you say "well, but they would be paying higher taxes too", remember: if they do, they just pass the costs on to the consumer, but in the case of Samsung (which is, basically, Korea Inc), the government would be happy to keep their taxes low.
To drive the point a bit further: these tax scams are bad because to perpetrate them you have to have a fairly large and wealthy company, so this poses a barrier to entry for startups. On the other hand, consumers would certainly not benefit in the short term from Apple paying higher taxes.
If Ireland acts, which would only happen with changes to EU government law, then where would Apple go?
Join Amazon in the Caribbean.
Any subsequent export from these countries into the EU would involve a customs tariff. If the EU forced a European wide tax do you thing every company would leave? The US corp tax is 35%.
A customs tariff would bring about a trade war, everything made in the EU would have equivalent tariffs applied when exported, say to the US.
Then there are the major EU corporations that pioneered all this tax haven stuff, Nestle, Philips the big EU based multinational drug companies.
There is no way in hell that the EU would do anything to cause major price increases across all their exports.
If Apple paid "its share of taxes", then it would have to raise the prices of its products to maintain the same level of after-tax income, which means that sales would go down, which means that the companies everyone here loves to hate (Google, Samsung) would win. And before you say "well, but they would be paying higher taxes too", remember: if they do, they just pass the costs on to the consumer, but in the case of Samsung (which is, basically, Korea Inc), the government would be happy to keep their taxes low.
Don't talk about mathematics and Economies of scale to me. It gets fucking old reading about how US and EU Corporations will just relocate. I'm advocating the entire G20 Summit do what it was charged to do: Fix the tax dodging at fair and reasonable rates.
Apple paying 0.6% in taxes is fucking pathetic.
When I worked at NeXT and Apple Engineering there was no fucking way we only paid so little. This hording of accounting practices comes after Fred Anderson left and Peter Oppenheimer arrived.
Shit, we paid $900k/month on network and communications services at NeXT before the merger. Spare me on how accounting practices work. Any Engineer worth a shit laughs at the simplicity of Finance and Accounting. It's clear the tax codes are fucked up.
By the way, this ``they'll pass the costs onto the consumer'' is a fucking red herring that would not pan out [pass the smell test] once the Tax Code is fixed. Tax Law would strictly forbid such egregious practices.
The real loser is the institutional investors who spend billions lobbying for this never to happen.
Well actually the server is probably in Ireland. Or holland. All the UK is providing is consumers, not roads, police or healthcare for the non existant Apple headquarters, or data center in the UK. ( I think the location of the server doesn't matter.)
Now who do you think should pay tax on
1) Economist ads served from the UK sold in the US
2) guardian ads served from the UK sold in the US
3) online sales of GTA served from a UK server sold across the world.
4) a UK app dev who sells £1m in any year.
If VAT is paid where sold the world economy would collapse. App devs would have to return VAT records to every country in the world they sell to.
( in all of these cases the IP is also from the UK).
UK pays for the health of the customers.
Amazon are also hqered in Ireland.
The EU has tariffs already. It's not going to worry about a trade war with the Carribean. In any case most workers in Europe will stay in Europe. But I don't think the EU can normalise taxes across the EU.
I'd think some of the new eastern members to EU would be happy to see someone like Apple move into their country. What a shot in the arm it would be for them!
Once again. Ireland will increase taxes when or (a very big if) the EU forces it to. If the EU can apply a general corporation tax then where is the advantage to moving within the EU?