Well, call me ignorant, but I really thought Ireland was part of the UK. If not, then what's "united" about the term, "UK?"
Northern Ireland is part of the UK. The rest if Ireland or Eire as it is also known is not part of the UK.
The United Kingdom includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (four countries). It doesn't include the main part of Ireland, which is Eire.
Don't talk about mathematics and Economies of scale to me. It gets fucking old reading about how US and EU Corporations will just relocate. I'm advocating the entire G20 Summit do what it was charged to do: Fix the tax dodging at fair and reasonable rates.
Apple paying 0.6% in taxes is fucking pathetic.
When I worked at NeXT and Apple Engineering there was no fucking way we only paid so little. This hording of accounting practices comes after Fred Anderson left and Peter Oppenheimer arrived.
Shit, we paid $900k/month on network and communications services at NeXT before the merger. Spare me on how accounting practices work. Any Engineer worth a shit laughs at the simplicity of Finance and Accounting. It's clear the tax codes are fucked up.
By the way, this ``they'll pass the costs onto the consumer'' is a fucking red herring that would not pan out [pass the smell test] once the Tax Code is fixed. Tax Law would strictly forbid such egregious practices.
The real loser is the institutional investors who spend billions lobbying for this never to happen.
By "institutional investors" do you mean "pension funds"? Like the one your retirement money is in? Those bastards! You can fucking live on fucking social security, and fucking like it!
The rest of your post is just as senseless. You are/were an engineer, so yes, you are a god, and those accountants are little people. Well, no. It's really quite complicated, and having a team of people work on a product which makes the company some extra money will be very frustrated if the company just pisses it away by not doing everything it can to minimize its tax burden. Should the laws be changed? I suppose, though an argument is: why should there be corporate taxes at all? In the end, the money goes to individuals, who pay taxes. One may argue that corporate taxes are a scam to make people's taxes look like less than what they really are.
In the end, the money goes to individuals, who pay taxes. One may argue that corporate taxes are a scam to make people's taxes look like less than what they really are.
Except it seems that a lot of this money just sits around offshore, so Apple, Google, Amazon et al don't pay any taxes.
That is morally despicable, especially when you have tens of billions in the bank and all three countries under discussion suffer endless poverty. It's the Rand Paul approach to capitalism though. 'FYGM'
The United Kingdom includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (four countries). It doesn't include the main part of Ireland, which is Eire.
Sorry. That's what I was saying. I cut and pasted someone's previous quote instead of using the quote button.
Except it seems that a lot of this money just sits around offshore, so Apple, Google, Amazon et al don't pay any taxes.
That is morally despicable, especially when you have tens of billions in the bank and all three countries under discussion suffer endless poverty. It's the Rand Paul approach to capitalism though. 'FYGM'
Which three countries? If there were no corporate taxes, the money would flow freely into the pockets of shareholders and employees, and then would get taxed. Rand Paul would advocate a drastic decrease in ALL taxes, but this was not what I was suggesting here.
Which three countries? If there were no corporate taxes, the money would flow freely into the pockets of shareholders and employees, and then would get taxed. Rand Paul would advocate a drastic decrease in ALL taxes, but this was not what I was suggesting here.
USA, UK, Eire are the countries I was referring to. Why would the money flow freely into the pockets of shareholders? They get taxed only on capital gains which can often be significantly lower than income taxes. Better for Apple / Google / Etc to keep their money offshore and untaxed in either way.
I'm wholly against this nonsense of 'trickle down economics'. It's a delusion shared between those who want to justify keeping hold of money at all costs. When the richest ~100 people in the world outweigh the poorest half then we have a major worldwide problem. Apple and Google and Microsoft etc are just visible symptoms, the real cancer is the ideologies.
Éire my apologies. I didn't want to do the wrong accent or appear UK centric.
I am part English part Irish. And live between the two. I don't expect English people to worry about accents (fadas) over Irish vowels. This is a bit petty but Eire is the Gaelic language name for the Republic of Ireland, which is the English name. Using Eire is a bit off, like calling Germany Deutschland in English. Or Rome Roma. Or pronouncing Paris Paree.
This is more an English language prejudice than anything. Or a love of consistency. Keep the English name of all countries or none.
I am part English part Irish. And live between the two. I don't expect English people to worry about accents (fadas) over Irish vowels. This is a bit petty but Eire is the Gaelic language name for the Republic of Ireland, which is the English name. Using Eire is a bit off, like calling Germany Deutschland in English. Or Rome Roma. Or pronouncing Paris Paree.
This is more an English language prejudice than anything. Or a love of consistency. Keep the English name of all countries or none.
That's fine, I try and make sure I don't have a UK centric position on this because I am stuck in a tricky position between support for Ireland being known as its own country and supporting republicanism in NI, which I am mostly against. Let's end this brief aside here though so we don't bring politics any further into this discussion.
My position is simple: Apple, Google, Microsoft all do business in the UK. They therefore have a moral obligation to pay a reasonable tax amount to support the continued growth of their market. The argument that they should act only in the interests of their shareholders is wildly ignorant (not that I'm implying you're making it, I haven't read all your previous posts) and we should never accept a system where only those lucky enough to be able to buy-in to higher risk investments deserve to receive benefits from them. A rising tide lifts all boats and the best way to raise water levels is to have a healthy supply to those people who can't keep their buckets full and spend everything they earn. That is rarely the rich.
Personally speaking, both Ireland and Switzerland should have kept their national independence and not joined the EU//EUC. Ireland now has to bow to external pressures and regulations, this dilutes its independence and differentiation.
That's fine, I try and make sure I don't have a UK centric position on this because I am stuck in a tricky position between support for Ireland being known as its own country and supporting republicanism in NI, which I am mostly against. Let's end this brief aside here though so we don't bring politics any further into this discussion.
My position is simple: Apple, Google, Microsoft all do business in the UK. They therefore have a moral obligation to pay a reasonable tax amount to support the continued growth of their market. The argument that they should act only in the interests of their shareholders is wildly ignorant (not that I'm implying you're making it, I haven't read all your previous posts) and we should never accept a system where only those lucky enough to be able to buy-in to higher risk investments deserve to receive benefits from them. A rising tide lifts all boats and the best way to raise water levels is to have a healthy supply to those people who can't keep their buckets full and spend everything they earn. That is rarely the rich.
My position is the US is owed most of these taxes, morally. Not Ireland.
Touché. Ok, as I have been arguing morally this money belongs to the US. I don't think Apple owes Ireland for IP and Ireland won't raise taxes. We are largely on the same page. Sorry for the mistakes.
Yes I agree that the laws won't change. Ireland won't do it unilaterally. The EU will find it impossible to agree on a number, and to plug all the loopholes, and even if they did I don't think Apple would leave the EU ( and therefore Ireland) but that's moot.
The best outcome is a tax holiday in the US - bring the money home. US senators should realise that low tax elsewhere means more potential tax in the US on any potential repatriation, because of double taxation agreements.
Unless the US tax laws change I do not see the foreign money being repatriated back to home shores. Given the inertia in Congress and the competing lobbying groups of both pro & con, I do nor anticipate any new laws or tax holidays despite the inherent benefits of having the money on US vice foreign shores. We are not dealing with logic.but emotions, ideology and special interests.
Comments
Northern Ireland is part of the UK. The rest if Ireland or Eire as it is also known is not part of the UK.
Don't talk about mathematics and Economies of scale to me. It gets fucking old reading about how US and EU Corporations will just relocate. I'm advocating the entire G20 Summit do what it was charged to do: Fix the tax dodging at fair and reasonable rates.
Apple paying 0.6% in taxes is fucking pathetic.
When I worked at NeXT and Apple Engineering there was no fucking way we only paid so little. This hording of accounting practices comes after Fred Anderson left and Peter Oppenheimer arrived.
Shit, we paid $900k/month on network and communications services at NeXT before the merger. Spare me on how accounting practices work. Any Engineer worth a shit laughs at the simplicity of Finance and Accounting. It's clear the tax codes are fucked up.
By the way, this ``they'll pass the costs onto the consumer'' is a fucking red herring that would not pan out [pass the smell test] once the Tax Code is fixed. Tax Law would strictly forbid such egregious practices.
The real loser is the institutional investors who spend billions lobbying for this never to happen.
By "institutional investors" do you mean "pension funds"? Like the one your retirement money is in? Those bastards! You can fucking live on fucking social security, and fucking like it!
The rest of your post is just as senseless. You are/were an engineer, so yes, you are a god, and those accountants are little people. Well, no. It's really quite complicated, and having a team of people work on a product which makes the company some extra money will be very frustrated if the company just pisses it away by not doing everything it can to minimize its tax burden. Should the laws be changed? I suppose, though an argument is: why should there be corporate taxes at all? In the end, the money goes to individuals, who pay taxes. One may argue that corporate taxes are a scam to make people's taxes look like less than what they really are.
In the end, the money goes to individuals, who pay taxes. One may argue that corporate taxes are a scam to make people's taxes look like less than what they really are.Except it seems that a lot of this money just sits around offshore, so Apple, Google, Amazon et al don't pay any taxes.
That is morally despicable, especially when you have tens of billions in the bank and all three countries under discussion suffer endless poverty. It's the Rand Paul approach to capitalism though. 'FYGM'
Sorry. That's what I was saying. I cut and pasted someone's previous quote instead of using the quote button.
Except it seems that a lot of this money just sits around offshore, so Apple, Google, Amazon et al don't pay any taxes.
That is morally despicable, especially when you have tens of billions in the bank and all three countries under discussion suffer endless poverty. It's the Rand Paul approach to capitalism though. 'FYGM'
Which three countries? If there were no corporate taxes, the money would flow freely into the pockets of shareholders and employees, and then would get taxed. Rand Paul would advocate a drastic decrease in ALL taxes, but this was not what I was suggesting here.
Which three countries? If there were no corporate taxes, the money would flow freely into the pockets of shareholders and employees, and then would get taxed. Rand Paul would advocate a drastic decrease in ALL taxes, but this was not what I was suggesting here.
USA, UK, Eire are the countries I was referring to. Why would the money flow freely into the pockets of shareholders? They get taxed only on capital gains which can often be significantly lower than income taxes. Better for Apple / Google / Etc to keep their money offshore and untaxed in either way.
I'm wholly against this nonsense of 'trickle down economics'. It's a delusion shared between those who want to justify keeping hold of money at all costs. When the richest ~100 people in the world outweigh the poorest half then we have a major worldwide problem. Apple and Google and Microsoft etc are just visible symptoms, the real cancer is the ideologies.
There really isn't any country whose English language name is Eire.
Éire my apologies. I didn't want to do the wrong accent or appear UK centric.
I am part English part Irish. And live between the two. I don't expect English people to worry about accents (fadas) over Irish vowels. This is a bit petty but Eire is the Gaelic language name for the Republic of Ireland, which is the English name. Using Eire is a bit off, like calling Germany Deutschland in English. Or Rome Roma. Or pronouncing Paris Paree.
This is more an English language prejudice than anything. Or a love of consistency. Keep the English name of all countries or none.
I am part English part Irish. And live between the two. I don't expect English people to worry about accents (fadas) over Irish vowels. This is a bit petty but Eire is the Gaelic language name for the Republic of Ireland, which is the English name. Using Eire is a bit off, like calling Germany Deutschland in English. Or Rome Roma. Or pronouncing Paris Paree.
This is more an English language prejudice than anything. Or a love of consistency. Keep the English name of all countries or none.
That's fine, I try and make sure I don't have a UK centric position on this because I am stuck in a tricky position between support for Ireland being known as its own country and supporting republicanism in NI, which I am mostly against. Let's end this brief aside here though so we don't bring politics any further into this discussion.
My position is simple: Apple, Google, Microsoft all do business in the UK. They therefore have a moral obligation to pay a reasonable tax amount to support the continued growth of their market. The argument that they should act only in the interests of their shareholders is wildly ignorant (not that I'm implying you're making it, I haven't read all your previous posts) and we should never accept a system where only those lucky enough to be able to buy-in to higher risk investments deserve to receive benefits from them. A rising tide lifts all boats and the best way to raise water levels is to have a healthy supply to those people who can't keep their buckets full and spend everything they earn. That is rarely the rich.
Pay your goddamn share of taxes…
They are. Problem solved.
That ought to clear it right up.
My position is the US is owed most of these taxes, morally. Not Ireland.