I'll give some damn good reasons for why iOS is better than any other OS that claims to be (yet another wannabe) "iOS killer":
1. Quantity of apps (doesn't matter that much)
2. Quality of apps (does matter a lot)
3. Stability and general reliability of the OS
4. UI
5. Focused (all Microsoft products don't know what they are - laptop? desktop? tablet? hybrid? hybrid with mouse? partially hybrid? car? fork?)
6. Simple
7. Fast
You said that you could "go on", so please do. Because what I found in your reasons was desperation and insecurity. How can you think that having mouse connectivity is more important than having apps? Better yet, how can you say that based on these puny features you could call the Windows 8/RT an iOS killer which set the benchmark and the very definition of a 'modern tablet'?
A benchmark is just that - something which can be compared and improved on, which is what Windows RT / 8 does.
Where did I say that mouse support is better than having apps? I'm simply saying that for users who want to use their tablet as a docked desktop (especially when connected to a big external monitor), they would be better off with mouse support.
1. Yes, iOS has far more apps than Windows RT. I never said it didn't. That said, Windows 8 has far more software available for it than iOS.
2. Yep, I would agree - but it's been around longer as a "touch" platform, so that is to be expected.
3. I disagree - Windows RT is at least equally stable compared to iOS.
4. The basics in terms of the UI are the same. But the UI in Windows RT is more flexible, as I already explained.
5. Focused - yes, I agree. But that focus is precisely why some people will struggle trying to turn it into something it's not. The iPad is a very fine tablet, so stick to using it as a tablet. Why even bother buying Bluetooth keyboards for it?
6. Yes, iOS is simple, but it's also restrictive as a result. But Windows RT is also simple if you use it like an iPad, but it allows you to do a lot more if you go beyond the basics.
7. Fast - yes, but so is Windows RT and 8 on the latest hardware. I would not call the earlier iPads fast.
1. Windows 8/RT can display 2 or 3 apps side by side. iOS only displays 1 app at a time.
...
9. Windows 8/RT is much more customisable with it's live tiles.
I could go on, but it clearly demonstrates the superior capability of Windows 8 and Windows RT compared with iOS.
No, you demonstrated that Win/RT has a bunch of features that have been shown to me kind of "Meh" from a tablet OS perspective from both reviews and sales. Some are just not as relevant for a tablet OS and others are simply implemented so-so.
Of that list the multi-user accounts is the only one that strikes me as something that I would really like to have on iOS.
Quote:
Pro apps - there are plenty available for both platforms. Most companies which do pro apps support both platforms equally.
No. That's not the assertion. The assertion is that MS has good pro apps just like Apple. Not the platform but the company. As near as I can tell they don't. Not like FCPX, Logic Pro X or Aperture. So what "pro apps" are you thinking of because enterprise and office apps are explicitly covered already as their own categories.
Just like Apple doesn't sell any service platforms like Azure I don't believe that MS sell any "Pro" apps.
No, you demonstrated that Win/RT has a bunch of features that have been shown to me kind of "Meh" from a tablet OS perspective from both reviews and sales. Some are just not as relevant for a tablet OS and others are simply implemented so-so.
Of that list the multi-user accounts is the only one that strikes me as something that I would really like to have on iOS.
No. That's not the assertion. The assertion is that MS has good pro apps just like Apple. Not the platform but the company. As near as I can tell they don't. Not like FCPX, Logic Pro X or Aperture. So what "pro apps" are you thinking of because enterprise and office apps are explicitly covered already as their own categories.
Just like Apple doesn't sell any service platforms like Azure I don't believe that MS sell any "Pro" apps.
And I thought that those people at Amazon EC2 were just a bunch of racoons.
Amazon doesn't sell the EC2 platform so you can build your own private compute cloud. VPC doesn't really count since I don't believe it will manage your own servers. HP and perhaps Oracle does. VMWare sorta does.
No. But it means not MS Office or Sharepoint or Azure since these were called out already as MS advantages over Apple.
Other Pro apps could be things like MATLAB, Mathematica, InDesign, QuarkExpress, AutoCAD, etc. That's ignoring that the three apps I listed covers photography, audio and video.
No. But it means not MS Office or Sharepoint or Azure since these were called out already as MS advantages over Apple.
Other Pro apps could be things like MATLAB, Mathematica, InDesign, QuarkExpress, AutoCAD, etc. That's ignoring that the three apps I listed covers photography, audio and video.
You could maybe argue dev tools are pro apps.
So, help me out here: all of the things you mentioned are available on Mac and Windows, but not iOS. Isn't that what was claimed originally about Windows vs iOS (presumably only Office is available on RT)?
No, you demonstrated that Win/RT has a bunch of features that have been shown to me kind of "Meh" from a tablet OS perspective from both reviews and sales. Some are just not as relevant for a tablet OS and others are simply implemented so-so.
Of that list the multi-user accounts is the only one that strikes me as something that I would really like to have on iOS.
No. That's not the assertion. The assertion is that MS has good pro apps just like Apple. Not the platform but the company. As near as I can tell they don't. Not like FCPX, Logic Pro X or Aperture. So what "pro apps" are you thinking of because enterprise and office apps are explicitly covered already as their own categories.
Just like Apple doesn't sell any service platforms like Azure I don't believe that MS sell any "Pro" apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
No, you demonstrated that Win/RT has a bunch of features that have been shown to me kind of "Meh" from a tablet OS perspective from both reviews and sales. Some are just not as relevant for a tablet OS and others are simply implemented so-so.
Of that list the multi-user accounts is the only one that strikes me as something that I would really like to have on iOS.
No. That's not the assertion. The assertion is that MS has good pro apps just like Apple. Not the platform but the company. As near as I can tell they don't. Not like FCPX, Logic Pro X or Aperture. So what "pro apps" are you thinking of because enterprise and office apps are explicitly covered already as their own categories.
Just like Apple doesn't sell any service platforms like Azure I don't believe that MS sell any "Pro" apps.
Pro apps are all about using a professional tool in a particular industry. In this instance, if we exclude Office, then I would include software suites such as Visual Studio, Expression Studio. But you're right - in terms of company and not platform, Apple makes more Pro apps.
Re: Windows RT - every item on my list is relevant, depending on what you want to use your tablet for. Might not be relevant for you, but it's relevant for others. Things like 2 apps on screen at the same time - that's important for me, even though it's not important for you. But that's why Windows RT / 8 is better - because it can do those things for those who need them.
i would say that it is specifically what PM are for.
Some peeps you just can't reach...
Private messages are for things which are not of general interest (oh, you were at NeXT in 1988? Why, I had the office next door, that secretary Janet, man, she was hot!), not for abuse.
Private messages are for things which are not of general interest (oh, you were at NeXT in 1988? Why, I had the office next door, that secretary Janet, man, she was hot!), not for abuse.
oh, you were at Appleinsider in 2014? I read the forum general discussion, that MS shill m_________ and W_____ man were they idiots.
I don't see how changing the subject and adjectives makes it any different.
Private messages are for things which are not of general interest (oh, you were at NeXT in 1988? Why, I had the office next door, that secretary Janet, man, she was hot!), not for abuse.
Let me see--- oh, you were at Appleinsider in 2014? I was in general discussion forum, and there were a few apple hater posters, man were they idiots.
Part of the reason it is not selling is what was already mentioned by me (and WP7Mango): windows RT is just like windows, except it's not windows. The Surface Pro 2, I have no idea how well it is selling, but it is in a pretty crowded market (Lenovo alone has a bunch of convertible devices), and MSFT can't be too aggressive vs its own OEMs. The point is, there are many reason why something does not sell well, only one of which is poor design, so what you say makes no sense.
Asking questions is 'not making sense'? Someone better tell Socrates.
So, help me out here: all of the things you mentioned are available on Mac and Windows, but not iOS. Isn't that what was claimed originally about Windows vs iOS (presumably only Office is available on RT)?
It sounds like you think apps are an important reason to buy microsofts products, for the same reason, iOS would be a great choice for you Because there are so many touch optimized apps. And obviously there's a lot of advantage to having apps that are designed specifically as a touch based app as opposed to a mouse based app when you buy a tablet.
It sounds like you think apps are an important reason to buy microsofts products, for the same reason, iOS would be a great choice for you Because there are so many touch optimized apps. And obviously there's a lot of advantage to having apps that are designed specifically as a touch based app as opposed to a mouse based app when you buy a tablet.
Since I am typing this on an Apple computer, with around ten iOS devices around me, you don't need to convince me. However, the OP's argument was that a Windows device gives you access to professional apps (however you define them) -- you don't need to use touch, since the Windows tablets, or hybrids, or whatever you want to call them, do actually come with a physical keyboard, and ports to hook up external displays (and certainly a bluetooth mouse is not an issue). The iOS devices do not have that option, and he is absolutely correct. Now, since I have the option of traveling with a 2lb thinkpad X1 carbon and an iPad (for a total weight of around 3 lb), I don't necessarily agree with him that this would be useful for me, but again, his argument is that the user HAS THE OPTION of using the Surface Pro 2, or whatever, as an actual PC.
But that's why Windows RT / 8 is better - because it can do those things for those who need them.
Windows RT and Windows 8 are two different beasties. I looked at the RT but when I learned that you can't do Visio or Project on it I passed. The Surface Pro 2 looks interesting but only from a ultra book that can be used as a wacom tablet from time to time.
Windows RT and Windows 8 are two different beasties. I looked at the RT but when I learned that you can't do Visio or Project on it I passed. The Surface Pro 2 looks interesting but only from a ultra book that can be used as a wacom tablet from time to time.
Actually, most convertible Windows devices I know are OK with stylus input...
Comments
Wow, how constructive of you!
Well, TallestSkil is the house troll (every home should have one! Not!), so that's about par for the course.
I'll give some damn good reasons for why iOS is better than any other OS that claims to be (yet another wannabe) "iOS killer":
1. Quantity of apps (doesn't matter that much)
2. Quality of apps (does matter a lot)
3. Stability and general reliability of the OS
4. UI
5. Focused (all Microsoft products don't know what they are - laptop? desktop? tablet? hybrid? hybrid with mouse? partially hybrid? car? fork?)
6. Simple
7. Fast
You said that you could "go on", so please do. Because what I found in your reasons was desperation and insecurity. How can you think that having mouse connectivity is more important than having apps? Better yet, how can you say that based on these puny features you could call the Windows 8/RT an iOS killer which set the benchmark and the very definition of a 'modern tablet'?
A benchmark is just that - something which can be compared and improved on, which is what Windows RT / 8 does.
Where did I say that mouse support is better than having apps? I'm simply saying that for users who want to use their tablet as a docked desktop (especially when connected to a big external monitor), they would be better off with mouse support.
1. Yes, iOS has far more apps than Windows RT. I never said it didn't. That said, Windows 8 has far more software available for it than iOS.
2. Yep, I would agree - but it's been around longer as a "touch" platform, so that is to be expected.
3. I disagree - Windows RT is at least equally stable compared to iOS.
4. The basics in terms of the UI are the same. But the UI in Windows RT is more flexible, as I already explained.
5. Focused - yes, I agree. But that focus is precisely why some people will struggle trying to turn it into something it's not. The iPad is a very fine tablet, so stick to using it as a tablet. Why even bother buying Bluetooth keyboards for it?
6. Yes, iOS is simple, but it's also restrictive as a result. But Windows RT is also simple if you use it like an iPad, but it allows you to do a lot more if you go beyond the basics.
7. Fast - yes, but so is Windows RT and 8 on the latest hardware. I would not call the earlier iPads fast.
Examples of how Windows 8 RT is better than iOS -
1. Windows 8/RT can display 2 or 3 apps side by side. iOS only displays 1 app at a time.
...
9. Windows 8/RT is much more customisable with it's live tiles.
I could go on, but it clearly demonstrates the superior capability of Windows 8 and Windows RT compared with iOS.
No, you demonstrated that Win/RT has a bunch of features that have been shown to me kind of "Meh" from a tablet OS perspective from both reviews and sales. Some are just not as relevant for a tablet OS and others are simply implemented so-so.
Of that list the multi-user accounts is the only one that strikes me as something that I would really like to have on iOS.
No. That's not the assertion. The assertion is that MS has good pro apps just like Apple. Not the platform but the company. As near as I can tell they don't. Not like FCPX, Logic Pro X or Aperture. So what "pro apps" are you thinking of because enterprise and office apps are explicitly covered already as their own categories.
Just like Apple doesn't sell any service platforms like Azure I don't believe that MS sell any "Pro" apps.
No, you demonstrated that Win/RT has a bunch of features that have been shown to me kind of "Meh" from a tablet OS perspective from both reviews and sales. Some are just not as relevant for a tablet OS and others are simply implemented so-so.
Of that list the multi-user accounts is the only one that strikes me as something that I would really like to have on iOS.
No. That's not the assertion. The assertion is that MS has good pro apps just like Apple. Not the platform but the company. As near as I can tell they don't. Not like FCPX, Logic Pro X or Aperture. So what "pro apps" are you thinking of because enterprise and office apps are explicitly covered already as their own categories.
Just like Apple doesn't sell any service platforms like Azure I don't believe that MS sell any "Pro" apps.
Does "pro" mean "pro video", these days?
And I thought that those people at Amazon EC2 were just a bunch of racoons.
Amazon doesn't sell the EC2 platform so you can build your own private compute cloud. VPC doesn't really count since I don't believe it will manage your own servers. HP and perhaps Oracle does. VMWare sorta does.
Does "pro" mean "pro video", these days?
No. But it means not MS Office or Sharepoint or Azure since these were called out already as MS advantages over Apple.
Other Pro apps could be things like MATLAB, Mathematica, InDesign, QuarkExpress, AutoCAD, etc. That's ignoring that the three apps I listed covers photography, audio and video.
You could maybe argue dev tools are pro apps.
No. But it means not MS Office or Sharepoint or Azure since these were called out already as MS advantages over Apple.
Other Pro apps could be things like MATLAB, Mathematica, InDesign, QuarkExpress, AutoCAD, etc. That's ignoring that the three apps I listed covers photography, audio and video.
You could maybe argue dev tools are pro apps.
So, help me out here: all of the things you mentioned are available on Mac and Windows, but not iOS. Isn't that what was claimed originally about Windows vs iOS (presumably only Office is available on RT)?
Well, TallestSkil is the house troll (every home should have one! Not!), so that's about par for the
course.
You’re insane.
At least it’s funny.
No, you demonstrated that Win/RT has a bunch of features that have been shown to me kind of "Meh" from a tablet OS perspective from both reviews and sales. Some are just not as relevant for a tablet OS and others are simply implemented so-so.
Of that list the multi-user accounts is the only one that strikes me as something that I would really like to have on iOS.
No. That's not the assertion. The assertion is that MS has good pro apps just like Apple. Not the platform but the company. As near as I can tell they don't. Not like FCPX, Logic Pro X or Aperture. So what "pro apps" are you thinking of because enterprise and office apps are explicitly covered already as their own categories.
Just like Apple doesn't sell any service platforms like Azure I don't believe that MS sell any "Pro" apps.
No, you demonstrated that Win/RT has a bunch of features that have been shown to me kind of "Meh" from a tablet OS perspective from both reviews and sales. Some are just not as relevant for a tablet OS and others are simply implemented so-so.
Of that list the multi-user accounts is the only one that strikes me as something that I would really like to have on iOS.
No. That's not the assertion. The assertion is that MS has good pro apps just like Apple. Not the platform but the company. As near as I can tell they don't. Not like FCPX, Logic Pro X or Aperture. So what "pro apps" are you thinking of because enterprise and office apps are explicitly covered already as their own categories.
Just like Apple doesn't sell any service platforms like Azure I don't believe that MS sell any "Pro" apps.
Pro apps are all about using a professional tool in a particular industry. In this instance, if we exclude Office, then I would include software suites such as Visual Studio, Expression Studio. But you're right - in terms of company and not platform, Apple makes more Pro apps.
Re: Windows RT - every item on my list is relevant, depending on what you want to use your tablet for. Might not be relevant for you, but it's relevant for others. Things like 2 apps on screen at the same time - that's important for me, even though it's not important for you. But that's why Windows RT / 8 is better - because it can do those things for those who need them.
I would say, abusive private messages are reason for immediate banning.
i would say that it is specifically what PM are for.
Some peeps you just can't reach...
i would say that it is specifically what PM are for.
Some peeps you just can't reach...
Private messages are for things which are not of general interest (oh, you were at NeXT in 1988? Why, I had the office next door, that secretary Janet, man, she was hot!), not for abuse.
Private messages are for things which are not of general interest (oh, you were at NeXT in 1988? Why, I had the office next door, that secretary Janet, man, she was hot!), not for abuse.
oh, you were at Appleinsider in 2014? I read the forum general discussion, that MS shill m_________ and W_____ man were they idiots.
I don't see how changing the subject and adjectives makes it any different.
Private messages are for things which are not of general interest (oh, you were at NeXT in 1988? Why, I had the office next door, that secretary Janet, man, she was hot!), not for abuse.
Let me see--- oh, you were at Appleinsider in 2014? I was in general discussion forum, and there were a few apple hater posters, man were they idiots.
See how that works?
Asking questions is 'not making sense'? Someone better tell Socrates.
Asking questions is 'not making sense'? Someone better tell Socrates.
You were asking questions in the form of assertions? That's sort of anti-Socratic, so the great man may well be spinning, whereever he is.
It sounds like you think apps are an important reason to buy microsofts products, for the same reason, iOS would be a great choice for you
It sounds like you think apps are an important reason to buy microsofts products, for the same reason, iOS would be a great choice for you
Since I am typing this on an Apple computer, with around ten iOS devices around me, you don't need to convince me. However, the OP's argument was that a Windows device gives you access to professional apps (however you define them) -- you don't need to use touch, since the Windows tablets, or hybrids, or whatever you want to call them, do actually come with a physical keyboard, and ports to hook up external displays (and certainly a bluetooth mouse is not an issue). The iOS devices do not have that option, and he is absolutely correct. Now, since I have the option of traveling with a 2lb thinkpad X1 carbon and an iPad (for a total weight of around 3 lb), I don't necessarily agree with him that this would be useful for me, but again, his argument is that the user HAS THE OPTION of using the Surface Pro 2, or whatever, as an actual PC.
But that's why Windows RT / 8 is better - because it can do those things for those who need them.
Windows RT and Windows 8 are two different beasties. I looked at the RT but when I learned that you can't do Visio or Project on it I passed. The Surface Pro 2 looks interesting but only from a ultra book that can be used as a wacom tablet from time to time.
Windows RT and Windows 8 are two different beasties. I looked at the RT but when I learned that you can't do Visio or Project on it I passed. The Surface Pro 2 looks interesting but only from a ultra book that can be used as a wacom tablet from time to time.
Actually, most convertible Windows devices I know are OK with stylus input...