I don't deny that it's probably unnecessary, but so is most discourse and social convention; and it's also a fairly obvious way of introducing yourself to a community and declaring your interests. The idea that it's a fool-proof way of detecting trollish behaviour is nonsense. Even if 100% of trolls used that language, does that mean 100% of people who use that language are trolls? Basic logic says no, A does not equal B, unless you have some other evidence.
The whole thing, as well as "I can understand a troll agreeing with a troll" reeks of "you said the stupid word, so you smell" playground posturing. As do the absurd list of rules then get carted out far too regularity with antisocial sneering and pomposity.
I can't be had with any of it, this is one of the rudest and antagonistic forums I've ever been on. It's only because I quite like the layout and the discussion topics that I'm still here, and yet I get called a troll for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Good day to you.
One gets a feel for posters. There are people like Gatorguy, who consistently question positive Apple news and consistently defend Google, no matter what. Therefore, he tends to get known as a troll, as he comes across as excessively provocative.
My accusation of you as a troll wasn't based on one of your posts but on all your posts. I think you have made some intelligent and fair comments, but on the whole, you seem to be too negative on Apple without backing it up with strong arguments.
Even in your last post, you revealed your troll comments by not even taking on board what I had to say. I explained my system of outing trolls (which others have similarly alluded to) and concluded by saying that it was borne out of the evidence of this forum. And yet, you dismiss this in your first paragraph.
I think several people get frustrated at being called trolls when criticising Apple. What I love about AppleInsider is that it is a very civilised forum compared to so many out there, due in no small part, I think, to the moderation. I really appreciate being able to read the comments without having my finger on autopilot as I desperately scroll down another 30 comments looking for a decent one.
But life is short! So if you display even the hint of trollishness on AppleInsider, expect to get given very short shrift because, as I said before, experience suggests that, generally speaking, if it quacks like a troll, it is a troll.
You're missing the point. Anyone can boast about how many Apple products they own. They can even humbly point out how much they love Apple and go into great detail. These things don't make them a troll. The crucial word is 'but'. Anyone who criticises Apple by saying 'I love Apple but...' 'I have several Apple products but...' I have been an Apple shareholder since 1802...' or anything similar is automatically behaving in a trollish manner, and no amount of defending his post will save him because he has revealed his true colours, as have you.
Wow. So now you get to dictate how people express themselves? If I use a phrase that is forbidden in your eyes I'm irrevocably labelled a troll? That makes sense to you?
I truthfully stated that I buy virtually every Apple product, whether I need it or not, because I am new here, and therefore no one knows my point of view and where I'm coming from. I was already being labelled a troll for suggesting that the article was biased, so I wanted people to know that I actually love Apple products as much as anyone else. I am not an Android fan with an agenda, I am a loyal Apple customer and shareholder. And now a half dozen or more people come out attacking me as an obvious troll, mainly because I used the word "but"? Really?? This is one of the dumbest and meanest exchanges I have had online in a long time, and it's really sad that it's coming from the Apple community. I take this crap from Android people all the time, but I wouldn't expect it here.
You guys really should be more open to opinions that differ from yours. You're operating in some weird bubble and it's skewing your view of reality.
Tell ya what dude- why don't you go to www.paleodietinsider.com and see if there is an editorial about how meat is beneficial to the body. Then head on over to www.vegandietinsider.com and see if there is an editorial about how being a vegan is the healthiest thing for your body.
Obviously, you have no idea what an editorial is.
You sure are rude. That seems uncalled for. I know exactly what an editorial is.
Why would a "normal" person make a preemptive defense? The answer is always because they are about to put their foot in their mouth.
It wasn't preemptive. I had already been labelled a troll several comments back. You guys are unbelievable. You have such a narrow range of acceptable conduct, and anyone who even slightly falls outside of that is subject to attack.
The point you seem to miss is that I am new here. I have thousands of comments on other sites so I have no need to declare my love of Apple products. On here, no one knows anything about me, so I thought it would be helpful to point out that I buy virtually every product Apple puts out. I also vehemently defend Apple in forums and own a large amount of Apple stock. I thought stating this fact would help you understand where I'm coming from, but instead you take it to mean that I am absolutely 100% lying, and I'm a troll. That's a sick, twisted way to look at the world, and it's really sad and pathetic.
A troll is a creature who lurks in hiding, waiting for an innocent to come along, and then attacks them. That's exactly how I feel as a newcomer to this site. You people are unbelievable.
1) You need to remember that you have no corporeal self on an internet forum. You are not judged by your wealth, the sound of your voice, your height, weight, skin colour, or anything else superficial. You are solely judged on your words so you should do everything you can to earn respect based on your words.
2) Think about what is means to say you own something on the internet. If I told you I own a Bugatti Veyron would you automatically have more respect what I have to say? Of course not because while it could be true it probably isn't (it's not), but more importantly it doesn't matter.
Well you know what they say, "It takes bias to fight bias".
I agree with starxd on that one. No good can come of a countering an unfair prejudice with another unfair prejudice. That said, I didn't see anything unfair about DED's article but I'm willing to entertain any argument that wants to counter his claims with facts.
People can say it when prompted or asked or if the topic presents itself for such info.
Or they can say it whenever they feel like it... because it's a free country, and we have free speech protection. How about that? Have I offended you? Does this automatically make me a troll?
You can't be that obtuse. People can say they own Apple products. The dead giveaway of a troll or shill is what you did. Don't claim you can't see the difference. It's 100% accurate, and you've outed yourself. Weren't you the one ending every post with "MIGHTY SAMSUNG FIGHTING!!" the other day?
Uhhh... no. I have never said those words. I don't even know what they mean.
I haven't outed myself as anything. You are being completely ridiculous. I tried to provide some background on myself since I am new here and no one knows who I am or what I stand for. Little did I know that stating I own Apple products followed by a criticism of the author (not even of Apple, but of the author) is like throwing red meat to sharks. You guys are completely out of control.
Or they can say it whenever they feel like it... because it's a free country, and we have free speech protection. How about that? Have I offended you? Does this automatically make me a troll?
LOL.
Now you're just being silly. No one said you can't say it and using some weird "free country" defense just sounds idiotic. If you really want to or need to tell everyone go right ahead but it won't help any argument you may have for or against a product or company's action, and will probably hinder your argument.
1) You need to remember that you have no corporeal self on an internet forum. You are not judged by your wealth, the sound of your voice, your height, weight, skin colour, or anything else superficial. You are solely judged on your words so you should do everything you can to earn respect based on your words.
2) Think about what is means to say you own something on the internet. If I told you I own a Bugatti Veyron would you automatically have more respect what I have to say? Of course not because while it could be true it probably isn't (it's not), but more importantly it doesn't matter.
What I said is completely factual and I had no agenda whatsoever for saying it, other than to give you some perspective on where I'm coming from. How is whether or not I own and like Apple products not relevant here? Of course it's relevant! The fact that me stating it has caused so many people to come out and attack me says a lot more about them and this "community" than it says about me.
Now you're just being silly. No one said you can't say it and using some weird "free country" defense just sounds idiotic. If you really want to or need to tell everyone go right ahead but it won't help any argument you may have for or against a product or company's action, and will probably hinder your argument.
Did you read his comment? He said I can say I own Apple products only when asked, or if the topic presents itself. I guess only he can judge if the topic presents itself or not? His entire comment was about restricting what I can say and when I can say it, so bringing up free speech is far from "idiotic." The level of attack I have received on this website is what's idiotic.
What I said is completely factual and I had no agenda whatsoever for saying it, other than to give you some perspective on where I'm coming from. How is whether or not I own and like Apple products not relevant here? Of course it's relevant! The fact that me stating it has caused so many people to come out and attack me says a lot more about them and this "community" than it says about me.
Your responses will allow the reader to determine what is relevant. Trying to force relevance by saying "I own this, listen to me!" has as much weight as stating, "I work from home and makes $87 and hour." It might be true but do you listen to such comments on message boards? I don't.
PS: Based on your follow up posts post I don't think you're just trolling. If I did I wouldn't have attempted to be so informative.
Did you read his comment? He said I can say I own Apple products only when asked, or if the topic presents itself. I guess only he can judge if the topic presents itself or not? His entire comment was about restricting what I can say and when I can say it, so bringing up free speech is far from "idiotic." The level of attack I have received on this website is what's idiotic.
And it's a good suggestion on his part. He never once said you're not allowed to say it or that it was breaking the law. You could start every post by saying you have a huge, wealthy penis but that isn't going to make your comments sound more reasonable. It's up to you, but remember you only have your words here so choose them wisely.
Maybe Samsung pays off the kind of half wit "troll hunters" who have been plaguing this site in more recent times so as to stop debate from people who probably aren't here because they are paid by "SamDung" but because they do own Apple products and want to contribute to a debate. A clever false flag tactic, if a bit obvious.
You're absolutely wrong, if I'm not mistaken 'Corrections' is DED, BTW for there to be a "debate" a pro and con side is needed. This forum would get boring pretty quickly if everyone was in agreement.
Anyone who owns Apple products must fall in line with your way of thinking, and if they don't, they're obviously a lying, paid troll? What kind of bizarre fantasy world are you living in?
If there's money in being a paid shill on message boards for Samsung, Google, Apple, Microsoft, or anybody, show me where to sign up!
Your responses will allow the reader to determine what is relevant. Trying to force relevance by saying "I own this, listen to me!" has as much weight as stating, "I work from home and makes $87 and hour." It might be true but do you listen to such comments on message boards? I don't.
And it's a good suggestion on his part. He never once said you're not allowed to say it or that it was breaking the law. You could start every post by saying you have a huge, wealthy penis but that isn't going to make your comments sound more reasonable. It's up to you, but remember you only have your words here so choose them wisely.
I never said anything remotely close to "I own this, listen to me!"
I have honestly never had so many people tell me how I need to act, what I need to say, what words I can and cannot use, what's an acceptable opinion and what isn't, and on and on and on. There is such a culture of conformity on this site. You must act this way or you are condemned as a troll and shunned. It's really, really disturbing.
I don't deny that it's probably unnecessary, but so is most discourse and social convention; and it's also a fairly obvious way of introducing yourself to a community and declaring your interests. The idea that it's a fool-proof way of detecting trollish behaviour is nonsense. Even if 100% of trolls used that language, does that mean 100% of people who use that language are trolls? Basic logic says no, A does not equal B, unless you have some other evidence.
The whole thing, as well as "I can understand a troll agreeing with a troll" reeks of "you said the stupid word, so you smell" playground posturing. As do the absurd list of rules then get carted out far too regularity with antisocial sneering and pomposity.
I can't be had with any of it, this is one of the rudest and antagonistic forums I've ever been on. It's only because I quite like the layout and the discussion topics that I'm still here, and yet I get called a troll for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Good day to you.
Have you ever started a conversation about a TV show or sports team with "I've been following XY since 1980 or since it premiered?" No. It's not natural and it's assumed you are a fan if you're on a fan site.
The point you seem to miss is that I am new here. I have thousands of comments on other sites so I have no need to declare my love of Apple products. On here, no one knows anything about me, so I thought it would be helpful to point out that I buy virtually every product Apple puts out. I also vehemently defend Apple in forums and own a large amount of Apple stock. I thought stating this fact would help you understand where I'm coming from, but instead you take it to mean that I am absolutely 100% lying, and I'm a troll. That's a sick, twisted way to look at the world, and it's really sad and pathetic.
A troll is a creature who lurks in hiding, waiting for an innocent to come along, and then attacks them. That's exactly how I feel as a newcomer to this site. You people are unbelievable.
I didnt call you a troll. I just made a suggestion that you need not mention your Apple history. It isn't necessary.
Or they can say it whenever they feel like it... because it's a free country, and we have free speech protection. How about that? Have I offended you? Does this automatically make me a troll?
LOL.
So you bring up your history of sports fandom whenever you post on sports blogs? Or do you just post what you need to say?
...you could start every post by saying you have a huge, wealthy penis but that isn't going to make your comments sound more reasonable. It's up to you, but remember you only have your words here so choose them wisely.
Did you read his comment? He said I can say I own Apple products only when asked, or if the topic presents itself. I guess only he can judge if the topic presents itself or not? His entire comment was about restricting what I can say and when I can say it, so bringing up free speech is far from "idiotic." The level of attack I have received on this website is what's idiotic.
And it's a good suggestion on his part. He never once said you're not allowed to say it or that it was breaking the law. You could start every post by saying you have a huge, wealthy penis but that isn't going to make your comments sound more reasonable. It's up to you, but remember you only have your words here so choose them wisely.
SolipsismX,
your mentorship here is admirable. However, my gut tells me its unwanted in this case and your time better spent on people who are actually open to helpful guidance on how to successful in the AI community. I hope for your sake, I am wrong. Unfortunately, as I am sure you know some people are just drawn to post for one purpose. To complain.. and they do this at the moment they say hello. Hello, I'm new here.. and I think this editorial was written by a fool.
enough said. next. move on. don't waste your time. They will get the same kind of respect they showed the author.
I have and I am trying. Languages (of all sorts) are a crutch for me in my adult life. I simply don't absorb them as easily as I do other information. I find this quite frustrating. I am still struggling with the format of Objective-C but I know C well. Yes, the frameworks and APIs and all their switches are very complex even though I can see the benefit of having a 40 character name using camelCase and being all squished together.
I usually have that problem when I can't find certain features or things are poorly documented. I would say it was easy compared to C++. You mentioned being from some sort of engineering background, so you probably have many years with C++ compared to Objective-C.
Comments
One gets a feel for posters. There are people like Gatorguy, who consistently question positive Apple news and consistently defend Google, no matter what. Therefore, he tends to get known as a troll, as he comes across as excessively provocative.
My accusation of you as a troll wasn't based on one of your posts but on all your posts. I think you have made some intelligent and fair comments, but on the whole, you seem to be too negative on Apple without backing it up with strong arguments.
Even in your last post, you revealed your troll comments by not even taking on board what I had to say. I explained my system of outing trolls (which others have similarly alluded to) and concluded by saying that it was borne out of the evidence of this forum. And yet, you dismiss this in your first paragraph.
I think several people get frustrated at being called trolls when criticising Apple. What I love about AppleInsider is that it is a very civilised forum compared to so many out there, due in no small part, I think, to the moderation. I really appreciate being able to read the comments without having my finger on autopilot as I desperately scroll down another 30 comments looking for a decent one.
But life is short! So if you display even the hint of trollishness on AppleInsider, expect to get given very short shrift because, as I said before, experience suggests that, generally speaking, if it quacks like a troll, it is a troll.
You're missing the point. Anyone can boast about how many Apple products they own. They can even humbly point out how much they love Apple and go into great detail. These things don't make them a troll. The crucial word is 'but'. Anyone who criticises Apple by saying 'I love Apple but...' 'I have several Apple products but...' I have been an Apple shareholder since 1802...' or anything similar is automatically behaving in a trollish manner, and no amount of defending his post will save him because he has revealed his true colours, as have you.
Wow. So now you get to dictate how people express themselves? If I use a phrase that is forbidden in your eyes I'm irrevocably labelled a troll? That makes sense to you?
I truthfully stated that I buy virtually every Apple product, whether I need it or not, because I am new here, and therefore no one knows my point of view and where I'm coming from. I was already being labelled a troll for suggesting that the article was biased, so I wanted people to know that I actually love Apple products as much as anyone else. I am not an Android fan with an agenda, I am a loyal Apple customer and shareholder. And now a half dozen or more people come out attacking me as an obvious troll, mainly because I used the word "but"? Really?? This is one of the dumbest and meanest exchanges I have had online in a long time, and it's really sad that it's coming from the Apple community. I take this crap from Android people all the time, but I wouldn't expect it here.
You guys really should be more open to opinions that differ from yours. You're operating in some weird bubble and it's skewing your view of reality.
Tell ya what dude- why don't you go to www.paleodietinsider.com and see if there is an editorial about how meat is beneficial to the body. Then head on over to www.vegandietinsider.com and see if there is an editorial about how being a vegan is the healthiest thing for your body.
Obviously, you have no idea what an editorial is.
You sure are rude. That seems uncalled for. I know exactly what an editorial is.
Well you know what they say, "It takes bias to fight bias".
I've never heard that, but whoever said it is an idiot. It takes truth to fight bias.
It's more attempting ingratiation by listing a supposed list of products as a precursor to negative spin.
Like I got a Galaxy S4 so I know that Samsung phones are garbage, that's why that lagging piece of junk is propping up a wobbly table.
See now I'm credible.
/s
I never listed any products. Not sure what you're talking about there.
Why would a "normal" person make a preemptive defense? The answer is always because they are about to put their foot in their mouth.
It wasn't preemptive. I had already been labelled a troll several comments back. You guys are unbelievable. You have such a narrow range of acceptable conduct, and anyone who even slightly falls outside of that is subject to attack.
FYI: I reported you for making an ad hominem attack toward four posters.
1) You need to remember that you have no corporeal self on an internet forum. You are not judged by your wealth, the sound of your voice, your height, weight, skin colour, or anything else superficial. You are solely judged on your words so you should do everything you can to earn respect based on your words.
2) Think about what is means to say you own something on the internet. If I told you I own a Bugatti Veyron would you automatically have more respect what I have to say? Of course not because while it could be true it probably isn't (it's not), but more importantly it doesn't matter.
I agree with starxd on that one. No good can come of a countering an unfair prejudice with another unfair prejudice. That said, I didn't see anything unfair about DED's article but I'm willing to entertain any argument that wants to counter his claims with facts.
People can say it when prompted or asked or if the topic presents itself for such info.
Or they can say it whenever they feel like it... because it's a free country, and we have free speech protection. How about that? Have I offended you? Does this automatically make me a troll?
LOL.
You can't be that obtuse. People can say they own Apple products. The dead giveaway of a troll or shill is what you did. Don't claim you can't see the difference. It's 100% accurate, and you've outed yourself. Weren't you the one ending every post with "MIGHTY SAMSUNG FIGHTING!!" the other day?
Uhhh... no. I have never said those words. I don't even know what they mean.
I haven't outed myself as anything. You are being completely ridiculous. I tried to provide some background on myself since I am new here and no one knows who I am or what I stand for. Little did I know that stating I own Apple products followed by a criticism of the author (not even of Apple, but of the author) is like throwing red meat to sharks. You guys are completely out of control.
Now you're just being silly. No one said you can't say it and using some weird "free country" defense just sounds idiotic. If you really want to or need to tell everyone go right ahead but it won't help any argument you may have for or against a product or company's action, and will probably hinder your argument.
1) You need to remember that you have no corporeal self on an internet forum. You are not judged by your wealth, the sound of your voice, your height, weight, skin colour, or anything else superficial. You are solely judged on your words so you should do everything you can to earn respect based on your words.
2) Think about what is means to say you own something on the internet. If I told you I own a Bugatti Veyron would you automatically have more respect what I have to say? Of course not because while it could be true it probably isn't (it's not), but more importantly it doesn't matter.
What I said is completely factual and I had no agenda whatsoever for saying it, other than to give you some perspective on where I'm coming from. How is whether or not I own and like Apple products not relevant here? Of course it's relevant! The fact that me stating it has caused so many people to come out and attack me says a lot more about them and this "community" than it says about me.
Now you're just being silly. No one said you can't say it and using some weird "free country" defense just sounds idiotic. If you really want to or need to tell everyone go right ahead but it won't help any argument you may have for or against a product or company's action, and will probably hinder your argument.
Did you read his comment? He said I can say I own Apple products only when asked, or if the topic presents itself. I guess only he can judge if the topic presents itself or not? His entire comment was about restricting what I can say and when I can say it, so bringing up free speech is far from "idiotic." The level of attack I have received on this website is what's idiotic.
Your responses will allow the reader to determine what is relevant. Trying to force relevance by saying "I own this, listen to me!" has as much weight as stating, "I work from home and makes $87 and hour." It might be true but do you listen to such comments on message boards? I don't.
PS: Based on your follow up posts post I don't think you're just trolling. If I did I wouldn't have attempted to be so informative.
And it's a good suggestion on his part. He never once said you're not allowed to say it or that it was breaking the law. You could start every post by saying you have a huge, wealthy penis but that isn't going to make your comments sound more reasonable. It's up to you, but remember you only have your words here so choose them wisely.
You're absolutely wrong, if I'm not mistaken 'Corrections' is DED, BTW for there to be a "debate" a pro and con side is needed. This forum would get boring pretty quickly if everyone was in agreement.
Anyone who owns Apple products must fall in line with your way of thinking, and if they don't, they're obviously a lying, paid troll? What kind of bizarre fantasy world are you living in?
If there's money in being a paid shill on message boards for Samsung, Google, Apple, Microsoft, or anybody, show me where to sign up!
Your responses will allow the reader to determine what is relevant. Trying to force relevance by saying "I own this, listen to me!" has as much weight as stating, "I work from home and makes $87 and hour." It might be true but do you listen to such comments on message boards? I don't.
I never said anything remotely close to "I own this, listen to me!"
I have honestly never had so many people tell me how I need to act, what I need to say, what words I can and cannot use, what's an acceptable opinion and what isn't, and on and on and on. There is such a culture of conformity on this site. You must act this way or you are condemned as a troll and shunned. It's really, really disturbing.
Have you ever started a conversation about a TV show or sports team with "I've been following XY since 1980 or since it premiered?" No. It's not natural and it's assumed you are a fan if you're on a fan site.
I didnt call you a troll. I just made a suggestion that you need not mention your Apple history. It isn't necessary.
So you bring up your history of sports fandom whenever you post on sports blogs? Or do you just post what you need to say?
What the hell is a "wealthy penis?"
Did you read his comment? He said I can say I own Apple products only when asked, or if the topic presents itself. I guess only he can judge if the topic presents itself or not? His entire comment was about restricting what I can say and when I can say it, so bringing up free speech is far from "idiotic." The level of attack I have received on this website is what's idiotic.
And it's a good suggestion on his part. He never once said you're not allowed to say it or that it was breaking the law. You could start every post by saying you have a huge, wealthy penis but that isn't going to make your comments sound more reasonable. It's up to you, but remember you only have your words here so choose them wisely.
SolipsismX,
your mentorship here is admirable. However, my gut tells me its unwanted in this case and your time better spent on people who are actually open to helpful guidance on how to successful in the AI community. I hope for your sake, I am wrong. Unfortunately, as I am sure you know some people are just drawn to post for one purpose. To complain.. and they do this at the moment they say hello. Hello, I'm new here.. and I think this editorial was written by a fool.
enough said. next. move on. don't waste your time. They will get the same kind of respect they showed the author.
Best regards to you SolipsismX.
I have and I am trying. Languages (of all sorts) are a crutch for me in my adult life. I simply don't absorb them as easily as I do other information. I find this quite frustrating. I am still struggling with the format of Objective-C but I know C well. Yes, the frameworks and APIs and all their switches are very complex even though I can see the benefit of having a 40 character name using camelCase and being all squished together.
I usually have that problem when I can't find certain features or things are poorly documented. I would say it was easy compared to C++. You mentioned being from some sort of engineering background, so you probably have many years with C++ compared to Objective-C.
What the hell is a "wealthy penis?"
I'm think this may be synonymous with rich prick, or perhaps just saying .. "Hi I am Justin Beiber" is sufficient to get the point across.