<strong>I've always wondered if the point of keeping the iBook on G3 is </strong><hr></blockquote>
..is maybe that the G3 chips might be cheap enough to warrant a bit of a higher margin with iBook sales. Not sure, but that would fit nicely into the "let's make a profit!" thinking Apple has as of late.
And honestly, notebooks never were really ment as desktop replacement and I think Apple positions iBook for "lightweight" work, for which a G3 is enough.
..is maybe that the G3 chips might be cheap enough to warrant a bit of a higher margin with iBook sales. Not sure, but that would fit nicely into the "let's make a profit!" thinking Apple has as of late.
And honestly, notebooks never were really ment as desktop replacement and I think Apple positions iBook for "lightweight" work, for which a G3 is enough.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If that's the case, then where is the lightweight price?
<strong>If that's the case, then where is the lightweight price?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Since when does lightweight imply cheap? A lot of technology goes into making small, light notebooks with long battery life. The G4 runs hotter and draws more power than the G3, and that is probably why Apple chooses to keep it in the iBook.
I was reading about the IBM PPC 750FX and it is interesting to note that they support up to a 200 MHz 60x-style bus. I'm guessing, but they can probably get away with this easier than MPX because MPX's timing tolerances are a lot tighter. They've also added better pipelining, but I think the MPX is probably still better at the same clock rate. Note sure whether it would be better compared to a 200 MHz 60x bus though. If the next IBM G3 includes an AltiVec compatible SIMD unit then we'll probably see the G3 in the iBook for some time to come.
<strong>Since when does lightweight imply cheap? A lot of technology goes into making small, light notebooks with long battery life. The G4 runs hotter and draws more power than the G3, and that is probably why Apple chooses to keep it in the iBook.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
As i mentioned in another thread, you pay a premium for portability too. Can you imagine what the iBook would cost if it was a G4?
I also think it'll be G3 all the way to a Ghz for the iBook. This will also differentiate the two lines more since there is no G5 for the Powerbook in the forseeable future.
Frankly, the prices aren't that out of line in the U.S. but are unreasonable here in Canada.
But I still wish they had at least gone to 800mhz on one of the iBooks.
...same crappy throttled hybrid DDR mobo from the Xserve in the QS case with a top end of dual 1.2GHz G4s. No FireWire2, no USB2, no built in bluetooth. Nothing of the sort.
Why the pessimism? Well, with all the Apple execs playing the sell, sell, sell game with their options, there can't be anything ground breaking around the corner. Would you sell $6m worth of stock if the revolutionary G5 was about to be intro'd in July? Hell no.
Apple's gonna put out some pathetic attempt, wrap it in some RDF from SJ, and try to convince everyone they can't beat the performance with a $600 1.3 GHz Celeron.
I am a Mac user, but Apple has got to do something, and this massive executive selloff isn't convincing me its coming soon.
...same crappy throttled hybrid DDR mobo from the Xserve in the QS case with a top end of dual 1.2GHz G4s. No FireWire2, no USB2, no built in bluetooth. Nothing of the sort.
Why the pessimism? Well, with all the Apple execs playing the sell, sell, sell game with their options, there can't be anything ground breaking around the corner. Would you sell $6m worth of stock if the revolutionary G5 was about to be intro'd in July? Hell no.
Apple's gonna put out some pathetic attempt, wrap it in some RDF from SJ, and try to convince everyone they can't beat the performance with a $600 1.3 GHz Celeron.
I am a Mac user, but Apple has got to do something, and this massive executive selloff isn't convincing me its coming soon<hr></blockquote>
We all know your frustrations, you don't have to tell us. If you don't like what Apple comes out with go buy a Wintel, until then try to keep it in the appropriate thread. Thanks.
...same crappy throttled hybrid DDR mobo from the Xserve in the QS case with a top end of dual 1.2GHz G4s. No FireWire2, no USB2, no built in bluetooth. Nothing of the sort.
Why the pessimism? Well, with all the Apple execs playing the sell, sell, sell game with their options, there can't be anything ground breaking around the corner. Would you sell $6m worth of stock if the revolutionary G5 was about to be intro'd in July? Hell no.
Apple's gonna put out some pathetic attempt, wrap it in some RDF from SJ, and try to convince everyone they can't beat the performance with a $600 1.3 GHz Celeron.
I am a Mac user, but Apple has got to do something, and this massive executive selloff isn't convincing me its coming soon.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's called insider trading you know. Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200 dollars. I would at least like to think Apple execs have more character than Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, etc...
....you asked for reasoned opinions on what is coming in MWNY '02. I gave you mine, executive selloff == no G5.
I could be wrong, as Makser pointed out, they could be preparing to sell during the semi-annual stock price ramp up preceding each MW when the faitful snatch up Apple stock expecting something insanely great.
But, if you were expecting long term growth as a result of some revolutionary chip, you would not be selling now or then.
This is just as valid a reason, if not more, than the claims of people who have "inside information."
I'm sorry if this isn't happy enough for you. I didn't predict the demise of Apple, only that given the beahvior of their executives, world beating performance is not in your near future.
ACTUALLY...Apple stock depreciating with a good anouncement makes sense..well, it doesn't make sense, but it happens all the time. I know this has been pointed out, but I thought i'd throw that out again...oh yeah insider trading..a powerful sword in the "Apple Exec. selling stock" idea.
Execs selling stock is commonplace, particuarly when they have it for years and the company they work for is beginning to move forward. No big thing.
Back to MWNY. I expect completely new enclosures for PowerMacs. Also I expect that the LCD line will be revamped with the Cinema Displays put on articulating arms (like the iMac) but still stand-alone and not attached to the CPU.
<strong>Note that according to Moore's law, a 100 % increase in clock speed is predicted every 18 months, TWICE as fast as the pathetic PPC development taking place in Motorola's labs.
<snip>
Thus we can optimistically expect the following at MWNY:
1 GHz, 1.13 GHz, 1.20 GHz.
133 MHz system bus.
DDR RAM hack that doesn't increase data flow to the CPU.
<snip>
At least this much seems clear: if the Powermacs get a paltry speed bump to 1.2 GHz on a 133 MHz system bus, then Apple better be prepared to lose some of their most coveted markets, like graphic arts and film. When a Wintel can run FCP in emulation faster than a Powermac can run it natively, the game is over.</strong><hr></blockquote>
JYD,
For the record, Moore's Law says absolutely nothing about clock speed. Instead it specifically refers to transistor count. That said, Motorola has generally been on target, even when it only adds additional L2 cache.
Still, your point is generally well taken. I tend to agree with your G4 predictions. I believe this to be a worse case scenario, but I believe you're generally on target.
As for the doom and gloom about people leaving the Mac platform, I highly doubt that. Of course, as you mention if PCs can run FCP in emulation faster than Macs can natively, you're right, Apple is in big trouble then. Of course, considering FCP makes good use of Altivec and is greatly accelerated by dual processors, I don't think that day is coming anytime soon.
The iBook is the only competitive product Apple still has: its price-performance is at least on par with PC notebooks, most certainly it's way ahead even...battery life, equipment, software package, manufacturing quality, and overall performance are REALLY GOOD with the iBook.
<strong>Of course, considering FCP makes good use of Altivec and is greatly accelerated by dual processors, I don't think that day is coming anytime soon.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Funny - just today I have a 2 hour meeting in a printing company (doing all kinds of stuff from postcards to high volume printing of books) and the guy I was talking with said that for a recent project he had to run a batch job on some 200 tiff images. Well just for the kicks he ran it on both and Athlon XP 1700+ (I think, but definately XP and single processor) and a dual 800 G4 Quicksilver. He stopped the G4 after image 45 since the Athlon was at 80 already. Of course it might have been something where AltiVec is not much of a help, but honestly - who's using those cheap looking filters in photoshop anyway? The only ones I use are gaussian and motion blur.
He said design work, layout, illustrations and similiar a 733 will do great, but whenever heavy caclulation is needed there's the PC to turn to. He also said for other calculation intensive work he has a Wintel rack and was wondering whom Apple is targeting with XServe. Oh and he showed me two nice 5TB SCSI raid systems, saying that for the backups they're doing (all the stuff the customers print there) IDE wont cut it, again wondering whom Apple is targeting with the IDE raid.. Oh and those raids were smaller than Apples 3U thingie.
<strong>Execs selling stock is commonplace, particuarly when they have it for years and the company they work for is beginning to move forward. No big thing. </strong><hr></blockquote>
9 Apple execs all deciding to sell stock at the same time. Sure it's no big deal.
Fred Anderson for example, is selling stock worth more than 6 million. If he had any reason to believe Apple stock would be going up after MWNY, would he be doing the same thing, when a few points after MWNY would mean a million dollars difference in the stock value?
All the execs have tax lawyers and they do what they have to do because of income levels and various sundry problems. If you think they're bailing out for some reason, so be it. But you're wrong. Then again, this is the world's number one paranoia site!
Comments
<strong>I've always wondered if the point of keeping the iBook on G3 is </strong><hr></blockquote>
..is maybe that the G3 chips might be cheap enough to warrant a bit of a higher margin with iBook sales. Not sure, but that would fit nicely into the "let's make a profit!" thinking Apple has as of late.
And honestly, notebooks never were really ment as desktop replacement and I think Apple positions iBook for "lightweight" work, for which a G3 is enough.
<strong>
..is maybe that the G3 chips might be cheap enough to warrant a bit of a higher margin with iBook sales. Not sure, but that would fit nicely into the "let's make a profit!" thinking Apple has as of late.
And honestly, notebooks never were really ment as desktop replacement and I think Apple positions iBook for "lightweight" work, for which a G3 is enough.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If that's the case, then where is the lightweight price?
Seconded.
Lemon Bon Bon
<strong>If that's the case, then where is the lightweight price?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Since when does lightweight imply cheap? A lot of technology goes into making small, light notebooks with long battery life. The G4 runs hotter and draws more power than the G3, and that is probably why Apple chooses to keep it in the iBook.
I was reading about the IBM PPC 750FX and it is interesting to note that they support up to a 200 MHz 60x-style bus. I'm guessing, but they can probably get away with this easier than MPX because MPX's timing tolerances are a lot tighter. They've also added better pipelining, but I think the MPX is probably still better at the same clock rate. Note sure whether it would be better compared to a 200 MHz 60x bus though. If the next IBM G3 includes an AltiVec compatible SIMD unit then we'll probably see the G3 in the iBook for some time to come.
<strong>Since when does lightweight imply cheap? A lot of technology goes into making small, light notebooks with long battery life. The G4 runs hotter and draws more power than the G3, and that is probably why Apple chooses to keep it in the iBook.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
As i mentioned in another thread, you pay a premium for portability too. Can you imagine what the iBook would cost if it was a G4?
I also think it'll be G3 all the way to a Ghz for the iBook. This will also differentiate the two lines more since there is no G5 for the Powerbook in the forseeable future.
Frankly, the prices aren't that out of line in the U.S. but are unreasonable here in Canada.
But I still wish they had at least gone to 800mhz on one of the iBooks.
...same crappy throttled hybrid DDR mobo from the Xserve in the QS case with a top end of dual 1.2GHz G4s. No FireWire2, no USB2, no built in bluetooth. Nothing of the sort.
Why the pessimism? Well, with all the Apple execs playing the sell, sell, sell game with their options, there can't be anything ground breaking around the corner. Would you sell $6m worth of stock if the revolutionary G5 was about to be intro'd in July? Hell no.
Apple's gonna put out some pathetic attempt, wrap it in some RDF from SJ, and try to convince everyone they can't beat the performance with a $600 1.3 GHz Celeron.
I am a Mac user, but Apple has got to do something, and this massive executive selloff isn't convincing me its coming soon.
So if they thought something great was going to happen at MWSF they would be filing their papers now.....
I don't believe any execs have actually sold their stocks yet, they are just doing the SECC paperwork that is required to do so.
But maybe I'm uninformed....
MSKR
...same crappy throttled hybrid DDR mobo from the Xserve in the QS case with a top end of dual 1.2GHz G4s. No FireWire2, no USB2, no built in bluetooth. Nothing of the sort.
Why the pessimism? Well, with all the Apple execs playing the sell, sell, sell game with their options, there can't be anything ground breaking around the corner. Would you sell $6m worth of stock if the revolutionary G5 was about to be intro'd in July? Hell no.
Apple's gonna put out some pathetic attempt, wrap it in some RDF from SJ, and try to convince everyone they can't beat the performance with a $600 1.3 GHz Celeron.
I am a Mac user, but Apple has got to do something, and this massive executive selloff isn't convincing me its coming soon<hr></blockquote>
Re-read the opening post.
[quote]Originally posted by Capt. Obvious:
Oh - and, please, let's skip these, shall we?
- obvious trolls
- too much "lubrication" (you know who & what)
- "I want (part/feature)"
- "Curse you, Apple" <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
- pronouncements of doom <hr></blockquote>
We all know your frustrations, you don't have to tell us. If you don't like what Apple comes out with go buy a Wintel, until then try to keep it in the appropriate thread. Thanks.
-CFPC
<strong>...here is whats gonna be announced:
...same crappy throttled hybrid DDR mobo from the Xserve in the QS case with a top end of dual 1.2GHz G4s. No FireWire2, no USB2, no built in bluetooth. Nothing of the sort.
Why the pessimism? Well, with all the Apple execs playing the sell, sell, sell game with their options, there can't be anything ground breaking around the corner. Would you sell $6m worth of stock if the revolutionary G5 was about to be intro'd in July? Hell no.
Apple's gonna put out some pathetic attempt, wrap it in some RDF from SJ, and try to convince everyone they can't beat the performance with a $600 1.3 GHz Celeron.
I am a Mac user, but Apple has got to do something, and this massive executive selloff isn't convincing me its coming soon.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's called insider trading you know. Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200 dollars. I would at least like to think Apple execs have more character than Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, etc...
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Flounder ]</p>
I could be wrong, as Makser pointed out, they could be preparing to sell during the semi-annual stock price ramp up preceding each MW when the faitful snatch up Apple stock expecting something insanely great.
But, if you were expecting long term growth as a result of some revolutionary chip, you would not be selling now or then.
This is just as valid a reason, if not more, than the claims of people who have "inside information."
I'm sorry if this isn't happy enough for you. I didn't predict the demise of Apple, only that given the beahvior of their executives, world beating performance is not in your near future.
my 13 1/3 cents
But whether it speaks for or against a "revolution" can't be clearly determined.
G-News
It means that they don't expect the stock to go any higher than it currently is in the near future, in fact, they're probably expecting it to drop.
And this has nothing to do with insider trading, it would be if they weren't filing with the SEC, but they are.
Back to MWNY. I expect completely new enclosures for PowerMacs. Also I expect that the LCD line will be revamped with the Cinema Displays put on articulating arms (like the iMac) but still stand-alone and not attached to the CPU.
<strong>Note that according to Moore's law, a 100 % increase in clock speed is predicted every 18 months, TWICE as fast as the pathetic PPC development taking place in Motorola's labs.
<snip>
Thus we can optimistically expect the following at MWNY:
1 GHz, 1.13 GHz, 1.20 GHz.
133 MHz system bus.
DDR RAM hack that doesn't increase data flow to the CPU.
<snip>
At least this much seems clear: if the Powermacs get a paltry speed bump to 1.2 GHz on a 133 MHz system bus, then Apple better be prepared to lose some of their most coveted markets, like graphic arts and film. When a Wintel can run FCP in emulation faster than a Powermac can run it natively, the game is over.</strong><hr></blockquote>
JYD,
For the record, Moore's Law says absolutely nothing about clock speed. Instead it specifically refers to transistor count. That said, Motorola has generally been on target, even when it only adds additional L2 cache.
Still, your point is generally well taken. I tend to agree with your G4 predictions. I believe this to be a worse case scenario, but I believe you're generally on target.
As for the doom and gloom about people leaving the Mac platform, I highly doubt that. Of course, as you mention if PCs can run FCP in emulation faster than Macs can natively, you're right, Apple is in big trouble then. Of course, considering FCP makes good use of Altivec and is greatly accelerated by dual processors, I don't think that day is coming anytime soon.
Steve
<strong>
If that's the case, then where is the lightweight price?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did I mention "higher margins"? I think I did. So what is then unclear about the price?
G-news
<strong>Of course, considering FCP makes good use of Altivec and is greatly accelerated by dual processors, I don't think that day is coming anytime soon.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Funny - just today I have a 2 hour meeting in a printing company (doing all kinds of stuff from postcards to high volume printing of books) and the guy I was talking with said that for a recent project he had to run a batch job on some 200 tiff images. Well just for the kicks he ran it on both and Athlon XP 1700+ (I think, but definately XP and single processor) and a dual 800 G4 Quicksilver. He stopped the G4 after image 45 since the Athlon was at 80 already. Of course it might have been something where AltiVec is not much of a help, but honestly - who's using those cheap looking filters in photoshop anyway? The only ones I use are gaussian and motion blur.
He said design work, layout, illustrations and similiar a 733 will do great, but whenever heavy caclulation is needed there's the PC to turn to. He also said for other calculation intensive work he has a Wintel rack and was wondering whom Apple is targeting with XServe. Oh and he showed me two nice 5TB SCSI raid systems, saying that for the backups they're doing (all the stuff the customers print there) IDE wont cut it, again wondering whom Apple is targeting with the IDE raid.. Oh and those raids were smaller than Apples 3U thingie.
<strong>Execs selling stock is commonplace, particuarly when they have it for years and the company they work for is beginning to move forward. No big thing. </strong><hr></blockquote>
9 Apple execs all deciding to sell stock at the same time. Sure it's no big deal.
Fred Anderson for example, is selling stock worth more than 6 million. If he had any reason to believe Apple stock would be going up after MWNY, would he be doing the same thing, when a few points after MWNY would mean a million dollars difference in the stock value?