The Road to New York, part 1

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  • Reply 121 of 139
    johnsonwaxjohnsonwax Posts: 462member
    [quote]Originally posted by neutrino23:

    <strong>



    Look back at last year's MWNY. The iMac was glossed over then six months later we got the LCD iMac.



    This doesn't say anything about specs but it would seem to indicate that a major upgrade to the G4 is coming in NY. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Been lurking here a spell, but I feel I need to maybe straighten something out. A few things to point out about Macworld.



    * Apple has made it clear that MW would no longer be it's primary product launch event, but that it would roll out products in more appropriately timed, special events.



    Witness the latest round of products. All the .edu focused products (eMac, iBook, xServe) in the last month, right when .edus are preparing for their equipment cycle. Very smart and appropriate.



    * Review the product rollouts in the last year. MWNY had nothing, MWSF had the iMac and minor others. Other products and upgrades largely have come outside of the MWs.



    MWNY last year *was* supposed to be the iPod intro - the first Apple consumer device in a long time, but it didn't come together in time.



    MWSF was the iMac intro - Apple's main consumer system.



    All of the pro stuff really has come in other events.



    My prediction for MWNY is that you'll only see a PM upgrade *if* it is truly revolutionary - enough so that the general public would care (Time magazine, anyone?)



    Any major intro at MWNY will be consumer-oriented. The future role of MW will be consumer marketed products. The PMs might be slightly sooner or later, but I don't think they'll take away from a consumer product with pro hardware. After all, Steve waited just one week for the xServe even when he had WWDC front and center.
  • Reply 122 of 139
    daveleedavelee Posts: 245member
    [quote] Jeromba, DaveGee, DaveLee:



    You guys are bad. It all goes to show that most people can't keep a secret: first one of you gave out a few juicy details, then another responded to the bait and a third posted a confirmation. Why all the cloak and dagger in the first place?



    PS i'm no different; i guess it's human nature!
    <hr></blockquote>



    Hey, I think I'm an innocent party in all of this (but it is nice that you think I can 'confirm' things...



    ...*CONFIRMED* G5s introed at NY! )



    I know nothing. Seriously.



    And I always thought that companies such as Apple would always keep test units and prototypes of anything stored away in-house for a long time. You wouldn't want some Chief Wiggins style security guard to be given the responsibility of looking after Apple's secrets.



    And I also think that anything special that Apple has to release will now be held back for NY, whatever the target market. Not every 'professional' regularly looks at the Apple store to see whether they bumped the PowerMacs. MacWorld is just as much a show for them as 'consumers' (and they say the class system is dead).



    Just my £0.02.

  • Reply 123 of 139
    Thanks to everyone who's contributed to the thread. Programmer, Razz Fazz, xype, thanks especially for sharing sense & experience w/ the rest of us!





    Anyway.... XServe IMO signals a shift in mobo design philosophy for Apple, one that we'll see in the PMs @ MWNY no matter what CPU is on-board. Specifically, w/ XServe, Apple's making efforts to extract the absolute maximum horsepower out of the CPU. One, by giving Ethernet & Firewire max-bandwidth access to main RAM (which will allow downloads & other transfers to happen @ top speed, in addition to removing the RAM-access burden of these tasks from the CPU). Two, by giving each CPU its own dedicated, hi-speed cache of DDR-RAM...which I expect will pay big dividends where AltiVec is concerned.



    But there's another example of this new philosophy: Quartz Extreme. Yet another angle on the issue of leaving the processor free to process, and a software effort, to boot - but it fits very well. So far, everyone's talked about how QE will speed up graphics, but it seems inevitable to me that it will result in enhanced processing power, too, once the CPU isn't having to micro-manage graphics display matters. Just so, letting ethernet & firewire dip into the RAM well for themselves will free up a substantial number of CPU cycles - and that should translate directly into more heavy-lifting capacity for the CPU.



    So, assuming NO G5, and NO new G4 tweaks, it seems to me we're still looking at a potential for as much as a 60-80% increase in perceived speed/response in the July PMs running Jaguar (15-20% from reduced CPU involvement in RAM traffic; 20-25% from QE offloading to the GPU; 15-20% from giving AltiVec bigger & faster caches; and an additional 10-15%+ across the board from recompiling w/ gcc3). Factor in another 10% in general efficiency & optimisation in Jaguar, and we're looking at 90% with the exact same G4 kit we have now.



    Am I missing something here?
  • Reply 124 of 139
    cdhostagecdhostage Posts: 1,038member
    Hmm... Consumer-oriented products. Even if Apple... hmm. would they wait to give us a PDA-iPod if there wasn't a new HD to go with it? I mean, IBM isn't too secretive about ehir new HDs, they want to crow, so there's probably no new 20 GB 1.8 in HD. Apple might hold off on introducing a new PDA-style iPod if there's not something new and better for iPod-only users as well.



    The new iPod which might be introduced at MWNY will probably only be related to the old one in battery tech. My best idea:

    20 GB 2.5in HD

    Touchscreen

    Lithium polymer battery

    StrongARM processors (fast enough to handle InkWell? I know Newtons could read handwriting, but this is a new tech)

    Same buttons for easy navigation - you can use it only as an MP3 player or only a PDA, or a PDA that has an MP#-playing app. Of course, the partitioning is going to be funky.
  • Reply 125 of 139
    From <a href="http://www.rumortracker.com/"; target="_blank">Rumor Tracker</a> comes this case design:







    It's believable, but I dunno....
  • Reply 126 of 139
    othelloothello Posts: 1,054member
    *fake*



    Take an xserve pic and a quicksilver tower, add photoshop, simmer on a low heat and there you go...



    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
  • Reply 127 of 139
    macmattmacmatt Posts: 91member
    Yes, I too have my doubts. But only from examining the font used in the "The New G4 Tower." Notice the e is different from the e Apple uses on their Website. eg. look at the "PowerBook" or PowerMac" , look carefully at the e's.



    The picture it seft looks amazing. So, again, we will just have to wait and see.



    [ 05-31-2002: Message edited by: MacMatt ]</p>
  • Reply 128 of 139
    xypexype Posts: 672member
    [quote]Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights:

    <strong>It's believable, but I dunno....</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I think the design looks too "usual" for Apple, although it's nice anyway. I expect something more of a "jawdropper" and at least the geforce4 titanium in the dual 1.4ghz (if there is any) if not the ATI R300/NV30.
  • Reply 129 of 139
    getafxgetafx Posts: 21member
    looks terrible, un-Apple even......

    but this all sounds good - [quote] Specifically, w/ XServe, Apple's making efforts to extract the absolute maximum horsepower out of the CPU. One, by giving Ethernet & Firewire max-bandwidth access to main RAM (which will allow downloads & other transfers to happen @ top speed, in addition to removing the RAM-access burden of these tasks from the CPU). Two, by giving each CPU its own dedicated, hi-speed cache of DDR-RAM...which I expect will pay big dividends where AltiVec is concerned.<hr></blockquote>

    at last something positive instead of "DDR hack = dead Apple, they better not etcetc"
  • Reply 130 of 139
    getafxgetafx Posts: 21member
    looks terrible, un-Apple even......

    but this all sounds good - [quote] Specifically, w/ XServe, Apple's making efforts to extract the absolute maximum horsepower out of the CPU. One, by giving Ethernet & Firewire max-bandwidth access to main RAM (which will allow downloads & other transfers to happen @ top speed, in addition to removing the RAM-access burden of these tasks from the CPU). Two, by giving each CPU its own dedicated, hi-speed cache of DDR-RAM...which I expect will pay big dividends where AltiVec is concerned.<hr></blockquote>

    at last something positive instead of "DDR hack = dead Apple, they better not etcetc"
  • Reply 131 of 139
    g-newsg-news Posts: 1,107member
    I think it looks damn nice.

    And guys, this is a mock up, not a claimed "Apple original", so there's no point in argueing whether it's fake or not, of course its fake, that's what mock-up are about, pinheads.



    G-News
  • Reply 132 of 139
    [quote]Originally posted by G-News:

    I think it looks damn nice.

    And guys, this is a mock up, not a claimed "Apple original", so there's no point in argueing whether it's fake or not, of course its fake, that's what mock-up are about, pinheads.

    <hr></blockquote>



    It probably is a fake. But from RumorTracker:



    [quote]

    After getting a couple of emails from individuals claiming to have a screenshot of an image that was briefly posted on Apple's site, I finally received one.

    <hr></blockquote>



    I can't vouch for the authenticity of the statement, but it didn't say for sure that it was a mock up.



    But please, don't be such an Arschloch by calling people "pinheads" right away.



    edit: egads! my typing skills are atrocious. sometimes i think it's all downhill once you pass 16-years-old.



    [ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: GardenOfEarthlyDelights ]</p>
  • Reply 133 of 139
    xypexype Posts: 672member
    [quote]Originally posted by G-News:

    <strong>that's what mock-up are about, pinheads.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    ur 4 p1nh34d ur5elf!
  • Reply 134 of 139
    So I figure that (if I'm right) this puts G5 off until '03; I mean, an effective near-doubling of "power" (ie, throughput), via motherboard re-design, ought to have a high-enough Holly Cheat factor, don't you think? That, plus respectable increments in clockspeeds, could hold them for another six months.



    And, who knows, maybe they need another half-year, and not just for internals.



    What I mean is: everybody knows that the Cube flopped, yes? But has anyone thought about that as a blow to the re-designed PowerMacs? Back in SF, Steve said that they'd had to start over again w/ the iMac, once they realised they were going down the wrong track; well, what if they had planned the Cube as the new PM form factor, and then had to scrap it & start again? If memory serves, MWNY will be two years since the Cube's introduction, and in that time we've had cosmetic stop-gap measures only where PM design is concerned, w/ "Quicksilver" being no better (& no different) than the Flower" & "Dalmatian" iMacs.



    Flop though it was, the Cube was pure design genius, and Apple is in the unenviable position of having to top it AND the existing PM design (which has changed only cosmetically, remember, since the original Blue-&-White G3) which is also a masterpiece of design. And they've apparently had to be working on re-re-designing the PMs at the same time they were redesigning the 'Books & iMac, as well as cooking up the iPod & XServe.



    So, there have got to be some big clues to the new PM design we can gather by looking @ the rest of the Apple line.



    First thing I notice is that the consumer stuff is shiny metal & bright white plastic...and XServe is all brushed metal. Call me silly, but I'd guess that the PMs will be brushed metal and clear plastic (a la le Cube?), no curves, and an internal access route that is at least as cool as the Cube's.
  • Reply 135 of 139
    jdeckjdeck Posts: 1member
    I am in the market for a new PowerMac G4 (currently using a 333 beige desktop and it is getting mightly slooooow).



    I was all ready to buy a machine from the apple educational sales area and then I discovered the Instant Rebate that they were offering. After a little investigating I found the "Powerful Offer' deal that gives between $200-300 off PM G4 towers.



    This was a sign to me that Apple was trying to reduce inventory on these machines to make room for new product.



    Of course most of us can only speculate about this, but I have become a bit reluctant to spring for a new mac with the possibility of a newer faster better cheaper machine in the near future.



    So, I guess I'm looking for a little advice...



    Should I go for:



    1) Power Mac G4 Dual 800MHz/256MB/80GB/DVD-R/CDRW/NV11/GIGE/56K ($1999)



    or



    2) 933MHz PowerPC G4

    256MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM

    60GB Ultra ATA drive

    Apple SuperDrive

    NVIDIA GeForce4 MX dual

    56K internal modem

    for ($1961)



    or



    wait for a new machine to come out in the next couple of months?



    Advice would be appreciated
  • Reply 136 of 139
    [quote]Originally posted by jdeck:

    <strong>I am in the market for a new PowerMac G4 (currently using a 333 beige desktop and it is getting mightly slooooow).</strong><hr></blockquote>

    I can relate - my 266 Powerbook is long in the tooth, as well.



    [quote]<strong>So, I guess I'm looking for a little advice...



    Should I go for:



    1) [ last year's top-of-the-line ]



    or



    2) [ this year's mid-line ]



    or



    wait for a new machine to come out in the next couple of months?</strong><hr></blockquote>

    The fact that you're asking the question indicates that you should wait & see what MWNY brings...if you can...and I'll bet you already know if you can.



    Seriously, don't put anything important on hold "just in case", but otherwise, why not?



    [ 05-31-2002: Message edited by: Capt. Obvious ]</p>
  • Reply 137 of 139
    bernardbernard Posts: 59member
    Anyone notice the lack of Mac benchmarks?

    new ibook how fast is it? my guess is more than 16%

    how does a 733 with L3 cache compare to an 800? i bet the 800 wins.
  • Reply 138 of 139
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    "So I figure that (if I'm right) this puts G5 off until '03; I mean, an effective near-doubling of "power" (ie, throughput), via motherboard re-design, ought to have a high-enough Holly Cheat factor, don't you think? That, plus respectable increments in clockspeeds, could hold them for another six months."







    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 139 of 139
    So you're saying that an effective doubling of throughput capacity is a bad thing?



    All I'm saying is that if the upcoming revamp is extensive enough, and good enough, it will buy Apple some breathing space - something they haven't had re: the PMs for a while now.
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