<strong>Why won't Dorsal return? Do you think he was canned or something?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can't get into details since I wouldn't wanna screw anyone (that just ain't cool) but the I will say this... If dorsal works where I think s/he works then he is for real and will not be back...
Also it's a good bet that if dorsal did work where I think s/he did then s/he could very well have NOT signed any NDAs etc with Apple (but I'd be pretty sure the company did) and dorsal just might have been semi-safe in telling us what he did...
Finally, it's been quite some time since we have seen a post from Dorsal and while that has happened in the past I have found something strange about it this time. Again I'd say more but I have no desire to screw the person.
<strong>i will say just this thing....</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't have even said that much... but it gets me thinking about that motherboad on ebay... You gotta know nobody from inside Apple would have been dumb enough to pull a stunt like that... Not that I think dorsal was the one who did it but it could have very well been from someone who worked for that company...
After perusing some of Dorsal's older posts, I've concluded that he's a fake. Why?
Well according to dogma, the G4 doesn't support a DDR frontside bus. The XServe goes a long way towards proving that. But Dorsal claims to have seen a G4 mobo with a 266 MHz frontside DDR bus.
Dave Gee>> You're right about it being a sad thing concerning Dorsal, but I'd rather s/he keep "mum" than pay dire consequences. I hope Dorsal is doing OK. For what its worth, I think Dorsal was the real thing too (just a hunch).
Now for another point on the Road to MWNY (something that I haven't heard anyone bring up, and I wonder if it is relevant), to All>: Remember MWNY '01, when reports indicated that SJ was upset after his keynote, and he was heard saying something like (paraphrasing) 'We should've been prepared'. Do ya think that MWNY '01 experience is going to have any bearing on what Apple delivers at MWNY '02, and that Apple has intentionally "held back" to have something truly awesome to make up for last years fiasco at NY? I think SJ wants to make up for last year, particularly because they were expecting a PM update then as well.
Personally, I doubt Apple, especially at this point, would hold anything back for marketing reasons.
If a G4 capable of using a frontside bus @ DDR speeds was available tommorrow, @ least I think, we would hear the announcement the next day. Same thing with a G5.
If Dorsal M is really not in a privilaged position anymore there is still no reason why he could not post and say he moved on. Hunderds of people move around all the time in this industry, and I do believe that it would betray him. Let's face it there are huge numbers of prople involved in the development of these things and anyone of them could be poising as Dorsal M.
He could easily be a fully fledged Apple Insider and be pretending to be a tester. The simple fact is we really don't know. The only this we really know is that he probably visits an Internet Cafe from time to time.
We do know some of Dorsal's predictions were eerily accurate, while others were almost stupidily inaccurate. I conclude he was/is not a fake. We don't have enough info about what he may have seen, I imagine Apple sends out a bunch of funky boards to test various things, or to illustrate a limited number of advancements to develpers on a need to know basis, just so someone like Dorsal will not get the full picture.
Steve thinks different:
For most Company's the bottom line is profit, Steve seems to have a different/dual bottom line in which the philosophy behind/experience of, the product(s) is given high priority as well. (I'm not the first to say) He really loves a suprise.
There will be a powermac suprise at MWNY I don't expect the G5, (but almost anything is possible from quad G4's @ 1.4GHZ, G4.5's w/DDR FSB, to new case etc.) More likely is something like the Xserve mobo slightly tweaked w/ dual G4's @ 1.4 GHZ
We all agree that Steve Jobs likes a surprise. None of us expect G5s, but anything up to 1.4 GHz G4 is possible, so wouldn't a G5 make more sense since it would actually be a surprise instead of something we expect.
We all agree that Steve Jobs likes a surprise. None of us expect G5s, but anything up to 1.4 GHz G4 is possible, so wouldn't a G5 make more sense since it would actually be a surprise instead of something we expect. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Now your beginning to understand - but shh! we don't want peoples hopes leapfrogging Steve's abilities to delight <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
We all agree that Steve Jobs likes a surprise. None of us expect G5s, but anything up to 1.4 GHz G4 is possible, so wouldn't a G5 make more sense since it would actually be a surprise instead of something we expect. </strong><hr></blockquote>
In this case, why don't we all expect either G4s or G5s clocked up to 2 GHz? That way Steve has to surprise us with a PPC clocked OVER 2 GHz!
After perusing some of Dorsal's older posts, I've concluded that he's a fake. Why?
Well according to dogma, the G4 doesn't support a DDR frontside bus. The XServe goes a long way towards proving that. But Dorsal claims to have seen a G4 mobo with a 266 MHz frontside DDR bus.
He's a fake, so it doesn't matter where he works.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's possible ( even likely) that Dorsal was testing prototype chips not made on a full scale fab. If those chips were designed to be fabbed on a 0.13 micron process (which he indeed suggests) then they won't be available 'till moto's 0.13 fabs are up and running (even if the chip itself is already finished), wich is just now happening, or is soon about to happen, depending on who you believe.
He might still be a fake of course, but you really don't have anything on him.
<strong>... Apple has intentionally "held back" to have something truly awesome ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
It has been my suspicion that this is so. The PM was not mentioned at either SF or Tokyo. The PM upgrade where they finally hit 1GHz was introduced silently. The upgrade itself was not much, 867 to 1GHz.
Look back at last year's MWNY. The iMac was glossed over then six months later we got the LCD iMac.
This doesn't say anything about specs but it would seem to indicate that a major upgrade to the G4 is coming in NY. I also think that is why the last upgrade was only to 1GHz. Just hitting 1GHz gave them some bragging rights. You would think that from 867MHz they could have achieved 1100MHz or 1200MHz if they tried but then the next upgrade to 1.4GHz or so would not have looked so big. On the other hand, holding back 100MHz or so doesn't really hurt anyone.
If Dorsal M is really not in a privilaged position anymore there is still no reason why he could not post and say he moved on. <hr></blockquote>
This is the point, s/he is probably still in quite a priveliged position.
DaveGee and jeromba have posted too much info on this board - I am not too quick on the uptake and I still worked it out.
I hope Dorsal covered his/hers tracks well enough (and even then, all this could be big wheeze; but I tend to agree with DaveGee that it all points to an honest insider).
<strong>...and that Apple has intentionally "held back"...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually there are at least two very good reasons why Apple would hold back a new machine:
1) While the chip was technically "available" its yields weren't yet to the point that Apple could announce it. They got burned really badly by the 500 MHz G4 fiasco.
2) The new design wasn't enough of an improvement and the next big thing was coming soon. Imagine if they had released an Xserve-style motherboard back in January with big fan fare. The complaining about how it is a hack solution, and the processor isn't any better would be amplified enormously -- it doesn't have the excuse that its a server that needs lots of I/O, and QuartzExtreme was too far away to talk about. Perhaps they just decided to wait until a bigger improvement arrived.
You guys are bad. It all goes to show that most people can't keep a secret: first one of you gave out a few juicy details, then another responded to the bait and a third posted a confirmation. Why all the cloak and dagger in the first place?
You guys are bad. It all goes to show that most people can't keep a secret: first one of you gave out a few juicy details, then another responded to the bait and a third posted a confirmation. Why all the cloak and dagger in the first place?
PS i'm no different; i guess it's human nature!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ummm don't give me credit where credit isn't due.... I put this together quite a number of weeks ago and I didn't even mean to do it... It just clicked. If I could do it then anyone who was/is employeed by Apple (to lock down leaks) would have done the same thing... Even faster I'd bet.
Hey Steve where do we send eval board and what boards have gone to who? I'm sorry but that list just isn't that long... I know folks who work (or have worked) for major (MAJOR) software developers and the 'early-seeding' of Apple hardware is next to ZILCH (for quite some time infact). This wasn't always the case but pretty much once Steve came back (and the iMac came out). So that pretty much leaves hardware oriented place...
Dorsal listed quite a number of different boards over the year and counting the old board you could make that years (2000 was his 1st posting I think) and that alone could have been enough to get em close. I'm kinda surprised it didn't pin-point it for them.
The only other way this could go is Dorsal was just a very smart hardware guy and fed us stuff for the fun of it and never had any Apple hardware in the first place and then figured it was a good time to stop. Many feel this way and it could just as well be true.
Finally... it is TOTALLY possible that Dorsal wasn't even working for said company at all but instead just posting info fed to him 3rd party style... That could explain why dorsal 'almost never' answered any questions that were asked of him. A brother, sister, cousin, college buddy, drinking buddy...
Then again it's totally possible that 'dorsal' just lived NEAR that company and did some dumpster diving for fun and rumors.
Heck I'm leaning more toward the '3rd party style leaker' or 'dumpster diver' myself but the fact is any of the above could fit the truth (or none of the above).
Fact: Dorsal knew all to well what he was doing and never once showed any sign of fear and even included things that would help pin-point him (I have most of his posts on this board archived) he even commented that a case was painted a specific color as well as other stuff that added nothing to the info and could have made finding him/her all that much easier.
The more I think about it... dorsal wasn't an insider at all but just someone who wanted to share info and didn't wanna come out and say... I know this guy and he tells me "xxxxx" because we all know posts like that get laughed outta existance and then the person who was feeing info knew that he better cut it out since the 'playfield' has changed just a tad. Dorsals source went silent and now 'Dorsal M' has no new info to post...
He's a fake, that's what I'm leaning towards. If he is for real, then no matter who he works for, he can continue posting info....unless I'm so incredibly stupid that I still haven't gotten "it". That's entirely possible...
Dumpster diving in a corporate park (I'm assuming)? Even if it was a stand alone facility wouldn't there be security guards?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you really think **most** companies have the same high level of security of say an Apple or Microsoft or Intel? Sorry but that kind of security comes at a pretty hefty price and if the company in question isn't a 'billion dollar baby' then they simply couldn't provide such things... It would be kinda hard to justify 24 hour security to monitor the garbage bins if the company was only pulling in a modest income.
Comments
<strong>Why won't Dorsal return? Do you think he was canned or something?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can't get into details since I wouldn't wanna screw anyone (that just ain't cool) but the I will say this... If dorsal works where I think s/he works then he is for real and will not be back...
Also it's a good bet that if dorsal did work where I think s/he did then s/he could very well have NOT signed any NDAs etc with Apple (but I'd be pretty sure the company did) and dorsal just might have been semi-safe in telling us what he did...
Finally, it's been quite some time since we have seen a post from Dorsal and while that has happened in the past I have found something strange about it this time. Again I'd say more but I have no desire to screw the person.
Dave
<strong>i will say just this thing....</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't have even said that much... but it gets me thinking about that motherboad on ebay... You gotta know nobody from inside Apple would have been dumb enough to pull a stunt like that... Not that I think dorsal was the one who did it but it could have very well been from someone who worked for that company...
Dave
After perusing some of Dorsal's older posts, I've concluded that he's a fake. Why?
Well according to dogma, the G4 doesn't support a DDR frontside bus. The XServe goes a long way towards proving that. But Dorsal claims to have seen a G4 mobo with a 266 MHz frontside DDR bus.
He's a fake, so it doesn't matter where he works.
Now for another point on the Road to MWNY (something that I haven't heard anyone bring up, and I wonder if it is relevant), to All>: Remember MWNY '01, when reports indicated that SJ was upset after his keynote, and he was heard saying something like (paraphrasing) 'We should've been prepared'. Do ya think that MWNY '01 experience is going to have any bearing on what Apple delivers at MWNY '02, and that Apple has intentionally "held back" to have something truly awesome to make up for last years fiasco at NY? I think SJ wants to make up for last year, particularly because they were expecting a PM update then as well.
If a G4 capable of using a frontside bus @ DDR speeds was available tommorrow, @ least I think, we would hear the announcement the next day. Same thing with a G5.
He could easily be a fully fledged Apple Insider and be pretending to be a tester. The simple fact is we really don't know. The only this we really know is that he probably visits an Internet Cafe from time to time.
Steve thinks different:
For most Company's the bottom line is profit, Steve seems to have a different/dual bottom line in which the philosophy behind/experience of, the product(s) is given high priority as well. (I'm not the first to say) He really loves a suprise.
There will be a powermac suprise at MWNY I don't expect the G5, (but almost anything is possible from quad G4's @ 1.4GHZ, G4.5's w/DDR FSB, to new case etc.) More likely is something like the Xserve mobo slightly tweaked w/ dual G4's @ 1.4 GHZ
But what do I know?
We all agree that Steve Jobs likes a surprise. None of us expect G5s, but anything up to 1.4 GHz G4 is possible, so wouldn't a G5 make more sense since it would actually be a surprise instead of something we expect.
<strong>Just a thought.
We all agree that Steve Jobs likes a surprise. None of us expect G5s, but anything up to 1.4 GHz G4 is possible, so wouldn't a G5 make more sense since it would actually be a surprise instead of something we expect.
Now your beginning to understand
[ 05-27-2002: Message edited by: pey/coy-ote ]
[ 05-27-2002: Message edited by: pey/coy-ote ]</p>
<strong>Just a thought.
We all agree that Steve Jobs likes a surprise. None of us expect G5s, but anything up to 1.4 GHz G4 is possible, so wouldn't a G5 make more sense since it would actually be a surprise instead of something we expect.
In this case, why don't we all expect either G4s or G5s clocked up to 2 GHz? That way Steve has to surprise us with a PPC clocked OVER 2 GHz!
Yeah, it just might work!
<strong>Oh, I get it.
After perusing some of Dorsal's older posts, I've concluded that he's a fake. Why?
Well according to dogma, the G4 doesn't support a DDR frontside bus. The XServe goes a long way towards proving that. But Dorsal claims to have seen a G4 mobo with a 266 MHz frontside DDR bus.
He's a fake, so it doesn't matter where he works.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's possible ( even likely) that Dorsal was testing prototype chips not made on a full scale fab. If those chips were designed to be fabbed on a 0.13 micron process (which he indeed suggests) then they won't be available 'till moto's 0.13 fabs are up and running (even if the chip itself is already finished), wich is just now happening, or is soon about to happen, depending on who you believe.
He might still be a fake of course, but you really don't have anything on him.
<strong>... Apple has intentionally "held back" to have something truly awesome ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
It has been my suspicion that this is so. The PM was not mentioned at either SF or Tokyo. The PM upgrade where they finally hit 1GHz was introduced silently. The upgrade itself was not much, 867 to 1GHz.
Look back at last year's MWNY. The iMac was glossed over then six months later we got the LCD iMac.
This doesn't say anything about specs but it would seem to indicate that a major upgrade to the G4 is coming in NY. I also think that is why the last upgrade was only to 1GHz. Just hitting 1GHz gave them some bragging rights. You would think that from 867MHz they could have achieved 1100MHz or 1200MHz if they tried but then the next upgrade to 1.4GHz or so would not have looked so big. On the other hand, holding back 100MHz or so doesn't really hurt anyone.
If Dorsal M is really not in a privilaged position anymore there is still no reason why he could not post and say he moved on. <hr></blockquote>
This is the point, s/he is probably still in quite a priveliged position.
DaveGee and jeromba have posted too much info on this board - I am not too quick on the uptake and I still worked it out.
I hope Dorsal covered his/hers tracks well enough (and even then, all this could be big wheeze; but I tend to agree with DaveGee that it all points to an honest insider).
[ 05-28-2002: Message edited by: DaveLee ]</p>
<strong>...and that Apple has intentionally "held back"...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually there are at least two very good reasons why Apple would hold back a new machine:
1) While the chip was technically "available" its yields weren't yet to the point that Apple could announce it. They got burned really badly by the 500 MHz G4 fiasco.
2) The new design wasn't enough of an improvement and the next big thing was coming soon. Imagine if they had released an Xserve-style motherboard back in January with big fan fare. The complaining about how it is a hack solution, and the processor isn't any better would be amplified enormously -- it doesn't have the excuse that its a server that needs lots of I/O, and QuartzExtreme was too far away to talk about. Perhaps they just decided to wait until a bigger improvement arrived.
You guys are bad. It all goes to show that most people can't keep a secret: first one of you gave out a few juicy details, then another responded to the bait and a third posted a confirmation. Why all the cloak and dagger in the first place?
PS i'm no different; i guess it's human nature!
<strong>Jeromba, DaveGee, DaveLee:
You guys are bad. It all goes to show that most people can't keep a secret: first one of you gave out a few juicy details, then another responded to the bait and a third posted a confirmation. Why all the cloak and dagger in the first place?
PS i'm no different; i guess it's human nature!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ummm don't give me credit where credit isn't due.... I put this together quite a number of weeks ago and I didn't even mean to do it... It just clicked. If I could do it then anyone who was/is employeed by Apple (to lock down leaks) would have done the same thing... Even faster I'd bet.
Hey Steve where do we send eval board and what boards have gone to who? I'm sorry but that list just isn't that long... I know folks who work (or have worked) for major (MAJOR) software developers and the 'early-seeding' of Apple hardware is next to ZILCH (for quite some time infact). This wasn't always the case but pretty much once Steve came back (and the iMac came out). So that pretty much leaves hardware oriented place...
Dorsal listed quite a number of different boards over the year and counting the old board you could make that years (2000 was his 1st posting I think) and that alone could have been enough to get em close. I'm kinda surprised it didn't pin-point it for them.
The only other way this could go is Dorsal was just a very smart hardware guy and fed us stuff for the fun of it and never had any Apple hardware in the first place and then figured it was a good time to stop. Many feel this way and it could just as well be true.
Finally... it is TOTALLY possible that Dorsal wasn't even working for said company at all but instead just posting info fed to him 3rd party style... That could explain why dorsal 'almost never' answered any questions that were asked of him. A brother, sister, cousin, college buddy, drinking buddy...
Then again it's totally possible that 'dorsal' just lived NEAR that company and did some dumpster diving for fun and rumors.
Heck I'm leaning more toward the '3rd party style leaker' or 'dumpster diver' myself but the fact is any of the above could fit the truth (or none of the above).
Fact: Dorsal knew all to well what he was doing and never once showed any sign of fear and even included things that would help pin-point him (I have most of his posts on this board archived) he even commented that a case was painted a specific color as well as other stuff that added nothing to the info and could have made finding him/her all that much easier.
The more I think about it... dorsal wasn't an insider at all but just someone who wanted to share info and didn't wanna come out and say... I know this guy and he tells me "xxxxx" because we all know posts like that get laughed outta existance and then the person who was feeing info knew that he better cut it out since the 'playfield' has changed just a tad. Dorsals source went silent and now 'Dorsal M' has no new info to post...
Dave
[ 05-28-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
Dumpster diving in a corporate park (I'm assuming)? Even if it was a stand alone facility wouldn't there be security guards?
<strong>
Dumpster diving in a corporate park (I'm assuming)? Even if it was a stand alone facility wouldn't there be security guards?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you really think **most** companies have the same high level of security of say an Apple or Microsoft or Intel? Sorry but that kind of security comes at a pretty hefty price and if the company in question isn't a 'billion dollar baby' then they simply couldn't provide such things... It would be kinda hard to justify 24 hour security to monitor the garbage bins if the company was only pulling in a modest income.
Dave