Rumor: Apple prepping 12" MacBook without fan, mechanical trackpad button

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  • Reply 141 of 177
    wizard69 wrote: »
    I don't see it. At least not now, the tags system is more of a distraction when it comes to organizing or finding things on your drive. Worst you would have to use it consistently. Imagine searching for a year old file where you forgot the tags applied to it. If nothing else a traditional file system allows you to narrow things by date.
    Or turn people's devices into hopeless messes that can't be navigated in traditional manners. I've yet to even use tags on my Mac because they are far more trouble than they are worth.

    I don't think you understand how tags work. A tag is like a smart folder, in that a file can reside in more than one of them.

    You're right in that you don't need to use tags now, and because you're familiar with the traditional folders, you're seeing it as a layer of unnecessary complexity. But your argument about not finding things is immaterial; there's no difference to not remembering which folder you put a file as to which tag. And you don't need to remember, because you can always search for a file name or its contents. In addition, tags makes file access easier, because a file may reside under several tags, so whereas with folders, your file can only reside in one place, with tags, your file may be in several, in the sense that it can be listed under several tags. It's a more fluid and flexible system.

    When you examine how the folder structure works, it's clunky and antiquated. The way in which one might have to drill down several layers to get to that elusive file is inefficient and was conceived more for the necessity of the computer than the user.
  • Reply 142 of 177
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,822member
    sporlo wrote: »
    I've tried tap to click and it's not as functional or easy to use. With a mechanical click, you can control drag and click 100% independent.


    As for no fan? If the hardware isn't severely limited that sounds like a lot of clueless people with overheated computers…

    You can do the same with a thumb and a finger on a modern Mac's trackpad that is set up with tap to click. Just press the thumb down and use a finder to drag.
  • Reply 143 of 177
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post





    In Mavericks, there is no need to click down for logging in at startup, at least with a Magic Trackpad. Tap to click was introduced for this functionality with Mavericks.

    just tried it.  User Control - Login window.  Tried to tap to click on my account...nothing.  no response.  click...worked.  Fail!

    I'm using a late 2012 MBP running the most current build of Mavericks.  does the same on a restart.  Must be a feature reserved for SSD Macs.

  • Reply 144 of 177
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    antkm1 wrote: »
    just tried it.  User Control - Login window.  Tried to tap to click on my account...nothing.  no response.  click...worked.  Fail!
    I'm using a late 2012 MBP running the most current build of Mavericks.  does the same on a restart.  Must be a feature reserved for SSD Macs.

    That seems like an odd feature to give an Apple SSD, unlike TRIM where at least Apple had tested it for their SSDs.

    But let's not give up on this but future out exactly what is going on. First, let's make sure we're all using the same language, with the same setup and attempting the same thing.

    Are we talking about with FileVault enabled? I have it enabled but I can still lock or logout after the fact.

    Are we talking about Display login window as List of users or Name and password? I use the latter for added security.

    Are we talking about Tap to click: Tap with one finger being enabled in the Trackpad section of System Preferences or some other feature.

    Finally, to be clear, we're talking about simply tapping — not clicking — on the trackpad over a user account's password box to move the cursor to that box. correct?


    edit: I used a 2013 15" MBP with Apple's 512GB SSD for the test. I kept FileVault on, enabled Tap to Click with one finger, turned on my Guest account, then logged out. I did not disable FileVault but logging out did not push me out to the FileVault login screen. Tapping did nothing for me on that screen. Any suggestions?
  • Reply 145 of 177
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 801member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

     

    just tried it.  User Control - Login window.  Tried to tap to click on my account...nothing.  no response.  click...worked.  Fail!

    I'm using a late 2012 MBP running the most current build of Mavericks.  does the same on a restart.  Must be a feature reserved for SSD Macs.


    That is correct. This is the only place where you are required to do a physical click. However, if you configure your Mac to log in without having to authenticate, then you will bypass this screen. I'm sure if Apple is considering a trackpad without a physical click, they are going to make a simple config change, and this screen will no longer required a physical click. 

  • Reply 146 of 177
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 801member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by psitthipo View Post

     

     

    Are you running Mavericks? Both my MBA 11" and my Mac Mini with Magic Trackpad run Mavericks, and this method won't work. The word only highlights if I double-tap and lift my finger off. If I do the "tap-and-a-half" the word won't highlight, and nothing happens if I drag my finger to try to highlight other words. 

     

    I have two alternative solution to this method:

    1) Double-tap to highlight the first word. Then hold down the shift-key and single-tap on another word and it will highlight every word in between. But this method is too tedious! 

    2) Triple-tap to highlight the entire sentence. But this method you can't choose the specific words you want to highlight.

     

    Try writing something more constructive or helpful. Don't BS unless you've got proof to back-up your claim.

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sirozha View Post





    When the multitouch trackpad came out in 2008 on MacBook Air, the way to highlight a sentence and to drag an object was a double tap with hold after the second tap with dragging without letting go after the second tap-and-hold. A couple years layer, Apple came out with a three-finger tap and drag for that purpose. When they did, they obsoleted the double-tap-hold-and-drag method. It can still be enabled, but it's not listed as a gesture in the Trackpad preference pane anymore; instead, it's in the accessibility preference pane.



    My first Mac was a 2008 MacBook Air, followed by a 2008 unibody aluminum MacBook 13", followed by a 2009 unibody aluminum MacBook Pro 15". Therefore, I learned my drag using the double-tap-hold-and-drag method. I think the three-finger-tap-and-drag was first introduced in Lion. When I upgraded, I lost my favorite way to do dragging, and I spent some time trying to figure out why it didn't work anymore. Then I found it in the Accessibility preference pane. I tried the three-finger-tap-and-drag method, but didn't like it.



    I have seen people who used Macs before 2008 click on the trackpad with one hand and while holding down the trackpad, use the other hand to drag. It looks really strange and outdated to me. I'm sure those who started using Macs with Lion, prefer the three-finger-tap-and-drag method, and consider the double-tap-hold-and-drag method as weird and outdated too.


     


    Thank you! Your post was the most helpful for me. Although your solution doesn't work in Mavericks, because there is no such setting in accessibility preference, it gave me some ideas to play around with the trackpad setting and I eventually found the solution to this problem.


     


    To do it, you have to enable "Three finger drag" on the trackpad. To highlight, just single-tap without lifting your fingers, then highlight. 


     


    Who would have known?!!! The setting description says "Three finger drag. Move with three fingers." WTH?! I guess Apple expects us to figure it out ourself that this function also highlights text?!


    The "double-click-hold-and-drag" method DOES work in Mavericks. This setting is located in: 

    System Preferences > Accessibility > Mouse & Trackpad > Trackpad Options > Enable Dragging

     

    You can choose to "Enable Dragging" "With Drag Lock" or "Without Drag Lock"

     

    Choosing "Enable Dragging"  "With Drag Lock" allows you to lock the drag and then lift the finger off the trackpad for a short moment without losing the drag lock. If the finger is lifted for longer than a second, the drag lock is released. 

     

    Disabling the "Drag Lock" releases the drag lock as soon as the finger is lifted off the trackpad. 

     

    In fact, the "With Drag Lock" option was broken in Mountain Lion, but it was fixed in Mavericks. So, even though Apple relegated this method for dragging to the Accessibility preference pane, Apple is continuing to support it. I much prefer this method to the "three-finger drag," which can be enabled from the "Trackpad" preference pane. 

  • Reply 147 of 177
    antkm1 wrote: »
    just tried it.  User Control - Login window.  Tried to tap to click on my account...nothing.  no response.  click...worked.  Fail!
    I'm using a late 2012 MBP running the most current build of Mavericks.  does the same on a restart.  Must be a feature reserved for SSD Macs.

    Well that's odd. I have a 2008 iMac! In System Preferences, try deselecting tap to click then selecting it. Also, repairing permissions. I used to have to click on the login screen, but didn't need to change anything in Mavericks; it just started working with tap to click.
  • Reply 148 of 177
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,452member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by psitthipo View Post

     

     

    Try highlighting a sentence...you can only do it with press-down-click then drag your finger to highlight. If you double tap to click, it only highlights one word. 

     

    Don't do it Apple, you will make a lot of people really angry!


     

    That's what the "Three finger drag" option is for. Works fine other than it's a little less difficult to be precise than a single finger/physical button. I'm currently training myself to use tap to click over using my thumb for the trackpad button, it's difficult but I'm getting better at it — kind of like when I finally ditched my mouse.

  • Reply 149 of 177
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,898moderator

    I'm dreaming of a MacBook Air with:

     

    1. A 12" 2240x1400 Retina display

     

    (This would be the same aspect ratio as both current Retina MacBooks and with the same 220 pixel per inch resolution as the 15" MacBook Pro Retina display.)

     

     

    2. A cluster of quarter-sized super quiet piezoelectric fans

     

    (The cluster could include one or more fans in proximity to major heat generating components and could use firmware to intelligently pulse the fans on/off in patterns that would maximize cooling airflow where needed according to the specific task the computer is performing while optimizing power savings and potentially canceling out one another's acoustics.)

     

     

    3. A multitouch display version of the trackpad

     

    Using a full color multitouch display (hey, let's throw in sapphire cover glass) would allow the OS to present context-sensitive actions, including actions that would set a select anchor and actions to determine how to extend a selection, for example - no more awkward click down and hold while dancing with another finger to create a selection on screen).  The possibilities of a full touch display trackpad would be enormous.)

     

    These enhancements, taken together, would fit the bill of a revolutionary new computer.

  • Reply 150 of 177
    I'm dreaming of a MacBook Air with:

    1. A 12" 2240x1400 Retina display

    (This would be the same aspect ratio as both current Retina MacBooks and with the same 220 pixel per inch resolution as the 15" MacBook Pro Retina display.)


    2. A cluster of quarter-sized super quiet piezoelectric fans

    (The cluster could include one or more fans in proximity to major heat generating components and could use firmware to intelligently pulse the fans on/off in patterns that would maximize cooling airflow where needed according to the specific task the computer is performing while optimizing power savings and potentially canceling out one another's acoustics.)


    3. A multitouch display version of the trackpad

    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">Using a full color multitouch display (hey, let's throw in sapphire cover glass) would </span>
    allow<span style="line-height:1.4em;"> the OS to present context-sensitive actions, including actions that would set a select anchor and actions to determine how to extend a selection, for example - no more awkward click down and hold while dancing with another finger to create a selection on screen).  The possibilities of a full touch display trackpad would be enormous.)</span>


    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">These enhancements, taken together, would fit the bill of a revolutionary new computer.</span>

    Laptop? Fans? Revolutionary? You're off your rocker.
  • Reply 151 of 177
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    And there again, 3-finger drag is less precise.


    Nope, gotta disagree. The only thing more precise than 3 finger drag with a trackpad is a mouse. Pressing down to hold a click and then having to maintain that pressure while trying to exactly highlight....that is absurd, and in no way "easier".

     

    I fully understand that whatever you are USED TO is what is "easiest" for YOU. But all things remaining equally, the clickable trackpad button is not the ideal or easiest method for any of it.

  • Reply 152 of 177
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by pmz View Post

    Pressing down to hold a click and then having to maintain that pressure while trying to exactly highlight....that is absurd, and in no way "easier".



    You must be joking. “Maintaining that pressure” is hard?! Maintaining “all the way down” is hard?! It’s less than a millimeter. The precision of a single finger is “worse” than the precision of three? Three fingers onto which no pressure is being put, therefore making it that much easier to lose your place and raise one of them while in use? That’s just inherently wrong.



    I’ve used them both. I don’t use three finger select anymore. Because it doesn’t work as well.

  • Reply 153 of 177
    howiehowie Posts: 68member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    Very doable. One reason I ofTen quote "laptop" when discussing this device is because I don't see it as traditional Apple laptop exactly. What exactly it would be is up to Apple but when people look at a Mac Book Pro this isn't the machine I imagine.

    I'm not sure this is required. It might work and there are certainly situations where it would be an advantage, but I have no problem at all with the using touch to slide or jump back and forth between apps. I works fine for me on an old iPad 3 so a much faster machine with globs of RAM would be fine.

    That I don't like at all!!????????????????????????



    The problem is that tags aren't any easier to use than directories for organizing data. Placing all your data into one directory seems like long term suicide to me.



    In any event Apple would have to extend the app API to allow access to a common store location on the iPads secondary store. Why this hasn't already happened is beyond me.

    We size does help but really there is no reason for iPad Air to ship with only 1GB of RAM. For this device though yeah you would need much more RAM. I'm thinking 4GB would be minimal.

    Honestly I'm not even sure we would get this much from Apple. They seem to have stagnated a bit with the base iOS system. I was rather shocked at the lack of improvement to basic Apps in the iOS 7 release. More gloss than anything.

     

    I'm smellin' what you're cookin'.

     

    I should probably have been more clear: more memory and storage. 1) If they're going to operate a 64-bit OS, Apple should probably provide enough memory to match. 2) 512GB on-board storage would be killer. 3) I know Apple is terminating legacy connections with extreme prejudice, but the ability to attach additional (addressable) storage via Lightning might prove useful. 4) Oddball: Apple might consider investing in memory technology that can serve as both memory and storage, making the transfer path between memory and storage virtually non-existent (and blindingly fast).

     

    Also, I do think user-defined file structure is the right way to go, but I can't prove it. What I'm thinking is the user-defined tags would enrich the existing OS-defined structure. Users might also be able to tag "shareable" and "non-shareable" items from the same utility. And other such things.

     

    As for iOS, the app dock at the bottom needs a serious updating. Also, a newer way to sort among apps (rather than swiping through screen after screen) would be useful. And if Apple doesn't do screen-snapping (or whatever) to switch between apps, a way to effortlessly switch would be needed. Mashing the Home button is a jarring experience. It doesn't feel smooth. I like the pull-down gesture search function on iOS 7. Something like that to trigger app switching would be good. Also the Settings "app" seems to be falling behind. It doesn't seem as intuitive as it used to be. I think that's because Apple keeps expanding iOS' capabilities, thus Settings gets more complex.

  • Reply 154 of 177
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    howie wrote: »
    I'm smellin' what you're cookin'.

    I should probably have been more clear: more memory and storage. 1) If they're going to operate a 64-bit OS, Apple should probably provide enough memory to match. 2) 512GB on-board storage would be killer. 3) I know Apple is terminating legacy connections with extreme prejudice, but the ability to attach additional (addressable) storage via Lightning might prove useful. 4) Oddball: Apple might consider investing in memory technology that can serve as both memory and storage, making the transfer path between memory and storage virtually non-existent (and blindingly fast).
    Storage has been a huge issue for me on my old MBP. As such I obviously can't buy an AIR with less storage than I have now internally. More so I know I need more that 200 GB of space. So the base AIRs are a bit useless. After the base price though you then have to seriously consider other Apple laptops.
    Also, I do think user-defined file structure is the right way to go, but I can't prove it. What I'm thinking is the user-defined tags would enrich the existing OS-defined structure. Users might also be able to tag "shareable" and "non-shareable" items from the same utility. And other such things.
    Well I'm not sure what to say here. My impression is that tags are seldom used by the operators of the machines. I really don't see how tags can be less confusing than a directory structure laid out in a browser like Finder. In fact I see tags as making things worst unless Apple provides a way to navigate tags. The thing is once you have to navigate tags what is the difference between that and ordinary file system browsing.
    As for iOS, the app dock at the bottom needs a serious updating. Also, a newer way to sort among apps (rather than swiping through screen after screen) would be useful.
    I'm not sure what the problem here is, you group like apps into folders and you are done.
    And if Apple doesn't do screen-snapping (or whatever) to switch between apps, a way to effortlessly switch would be needed. Mashing the Home button is a jarring experience. It doesn't feel smooth. I like the pull-down gesture search function on iOS 7.
    What is wrong with multi finger swipe up?
    Something like that to trigger app switching would be good. Also the Settings "app" seems to be falling behind. It doesn't seem as intuitive as it used to be. I think that's because Apple keeps expanding iOS' capabilities, thus Settings gets more complex.

    I never like iOS approach to settings. At least nor for user apps. The settings app is great for system features but really sucks for user app management.
  • Reply 155 of 177
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,452member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    In fact I see tags as making things worst unless Apple provides a way to navigate tags. 

     

    You mean besides Spotlight and the search field in every Finder window? They do absolutely nothing if you don't look for them, that's the whole point. 

  • Reply 156 of 177
    howiehowie Posts: 68member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    Storage has been a huge issue for me on my old MBP. As such I obviously can't buy an AIR with less storage than I have now internally. More so I know I need more that 200 GB of space. So the base AIRs are a bit useless. After the base price though you then have to seriously consider other Apple laptops.

    Well I'm not sure what to say here. My impression is that tags are seldom used by the operators of the machines. I really don't see how tags can be less confusing than a directory structure laid out in a browser like Finder. In fact I see tags as making things worst unless Apple provides a way to navigate tags. The thing is once you have to navigate tags what is the difference between that and ordinary file system browsing.

    I'm not sure what the problem here is, you group like apps into folders and you are done.

    What is wrong with multi finger swipe up?

    I never like iOS approach to settings. At least nor for user apps. The settings app is great for system features but really sucks for user app management.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post

     

     

    You mean besides Spotlight and the search field in every Finder window? They do absolutely nothing if you don't look for them, that's the whole point. 


     


    1. Memory/storage: Cost would be a significant factor, unless the device was truly "different," neither a tablet nor a laptop. Microsoft tried to accomplish this with Surface, but in the end they made a full-power-OS laptop with a detachable keyboard. I think Apple could make something better, which is why I previously suggested the hybrid OS that scales between iOS and OSX(-ish) as needed by user demand.

    2. Tagging: As fastasleep notes, the Spotlight feature (and probably similar newer functions) would serve to discover the user-defined structure. The idea is that the user knows his/her tagging structure and so would know what to look for. But the OS itself would still "macro"-level define items by general types (images, documents, presentations, etc.) so the user would also be able to find those items via the typical apps for those items. In the end, the idea is to eliminate the need for a "legacy" file manager/Finder in favor of user-preferred methods. This would eliminate the need for a storage map structure and instead use searchable metadata (or something) within the items themselves.

    3. App launching/switching: Grouping "like" apps might be a good way to go, but the utility of the feature should be intuitive. A user shouldn't need to sift folders to find their desired app. Perhaps Windows 8 might have had a good idea here that Microsoft didn't execute right. Something like Windows 8 swipe out "charms" would be a place to start, and you would find them on both sides of the screen. Sort of like pulling open a drawer and grabbing what you need from it, and once launched the screen would automatically return to its "home" position (behind the app). The bottom dock might be used to switch between multi-tasked apps/games/thingsThe existing iOS drag-down search function is a pretty good feature, but if you make it voice searchable you might as well give Siri the ability to launch apps (which would be about bloody time). The main screen area would thus be available for content/features a user might wish to leave active when not doing other things (e.g. calendar, social network feed, "muted" media/preview, etc.).

    4. Settings: There should be a means of accessing app settings from within/near the app. I do like the swipe-up quick controls iOS has now, which should be a jumping off point for additional settings functions (iOS or otherwise). But beyond that I'm not sure where Apple should go with this.

  • Reply 157 of 177
    ksecksec Posts: 1,569member

    Tidbit update. From the Intel IDF in China it seems Fanless MBA is all but confirmed.

  • Reply 158 of 177
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    ksec wrote: »
    Tidbit update. From the Intel IDF in China it seems Fanless MBA is all but confirmed.

    A little more information wouldn't hurt! Links? Is this Broadwell / 14 nm tech or a rehashed Haswell?
  • Reply 159 of 177
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    ksec wrote: »
    Tidbit update. From the Intel IDF in China it seems Fanless MBA is all but confirmed.

    Not to quote you twice but are you thinking about the so called Braswell chip Intel is talking up? If so that would have to be an extremely low end MBA. Apples A7 would perform about the same.
  • Reply 160 of 177
    howiehowie Posts: 68member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ksec View Post



    Tidbit update. From the Intel IDF in China it seems Fanless MBA is all but confirmed.




    Not to quote you twice but are you thinking about the so called Braswell chip Intel is talking up? If so that would have to be an extremely low end MBA. Apples A7 would perform about the same.

     

    How well would Mac OSX perform on an A7? What (if anything) would need to be dropped from OSX to work as SoC?

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