Samsung calls on Android exec in patent trial to prove certain features were created by Google, not

Posted:
in General Discussion edited May 2014
Samsung on Friday brought up VP of Android Engineering Hiroshi Lockheimer as its first witness in the second California Apple v. Samsung patent trial in a bid to prove the Korean company's devices did not copy Apple's. The main argument: Google invented certain features before Apple patented them.

Samsung Amethyst 2010 iPhone copy doc
Internal Samsung "copy cat" document presented as evidence by Apple.


Just as Apple's Human Interface chief Greg Christie explained iOS to the Apple v. Samsung jury last week, Lockheimer did the same for Google's Android, reports CNET.

Lockheimer spent a good chunk of time detailing the differences between Android and iOS, especially focusing on the early days of the project. He noted that the team of engineers working on the project made a concerted effort to make Android a discrete operating system.

"We liked to have our own identity, we liked to have our own ideas," Lockheimer said. "We were very passionate about what we were doing, and it was important that we have our own ideas."

According to in-court reports from The Verge, Lockheimer said his first brush with Android was in January 2006, when founder Andy Rubin asked him to view a demo of the OS. At the time, Lockheimer was working for digital security firm Good Technology, but promptly left for Google after being "blown away" by Android.

In the beginning, the team consisted of about 20 to 30 people, a number that grew to 70 people by the time the first Android phone debuted in 2008.

"People tend to thing of Google as a big company, but we were a small team," Lockheimer said. "We were autonomous, and the company let us do our own thing."

From there, the group ballooned to hundreds of people. Currently, Lockheimer said between 600 and 700 people answer to him for various software tasks.

The testimony was designed to prove some phone features Apple is suing Samsung over were already a part of the Android operating system used in certain devices, like the Galaxy Nexus. Further, specific features -- except "slide-to-unlock -- were invented by Google before being patented by Apple.

Apple rested its case on Friday, which asserts five patents against a number of Samsung products. The company is seeking $2.191 billion in damages associated with royalties and lost profits.

Samsung will continue its case on Monday when court reconvenes. Attorneys for the company said as many as 17 witnesses may be trotted out by the end of Monday -- most through deposition --though presiding Judge Lucy Koh wants that number pared down.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 115
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,862member

    I'm confident this engineers testimony will be shredded to pieces by Apple's lawyers next week.

  • Reply 2 of 115
    Apple says this is more than about financial compensation, then apple should sue Google and get this over with.

    Samsung is doing a great job making this about Google vs apple as it should be.
  • Reply 3 of 115
    tcaseytcasey Posts: 199member

    apple wont get paid if they sue google for android....as they give it away for free...or thats what i hear.

  • Reply 4 of 115
    I need popcorn
  • Reply 5 of 115
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,070member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post



    I need popcorn

     

    Don't do what Samsung would do. Make your own <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

  • Reply 6 of 115
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    The ONE instance in which it would have been great for Forstall to have been picked up by Google. <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

     

    Samsung’s lawyer: Now, Mr. Forstall, as a representative of Android, can you tell us just who created these features?

    Forstall: Sure can. Apple.

    Samsung’s lawyer: N-now, now, Mr. Forstall… surely these features on exhibit here were present in devices before Apple’s implementation! Nay, present even in Android before Apple used them!

    Forstall: Nope. We were the first. ‘We’ meaning ‘Apple’, here, if it please the court.

    Samsung’s lawyer: And just how do you think you know this, hmm?!

    Forstall: Well, for one, you called me up here, so is it in your best interest to question me, and two, take a wild guess as to how I’d know that.

  • Reply 7 of 115
    tastowetastowe Posts: 108member
    This court is very bad by stupid samsung phone company:( I am not very happy camper.
  • Reply 8 of 115
    LOL
  • Reply 9 of 115
    "We liked to have our own identity, we liked to have our own ideas," Lockheimer said. "We were very passionate about what we were doing, and it was important that we have our own ideas."

    Meaning BlackBerry/Windows in 2006, and iOS in 2007? Great "identity"
  • Reply 10 of 115
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,976member
    tcasey wrote: »
    apple wont get paid if they sue google for android....as they give it away for free...or thats what i hear.

    They can be sued since they make money indirectly. There's actually a term for it but I don't remember it.
  • Reply 11 of 115
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,449member

    Take-home lessons here:

    (1) It took a huge team of experts at Google to re-invent the Apple-patented technology -- the technology is non-obvious even to experts in the art

    (2) Google invented some of the disputed technology before Apple patented it

    (3) Google did not publicly disclose the technology until after Apple filed for the patent(s)

    (4) Apple invented the disputed technology before Google re-invented it

    (5) Apple wins the patent because it was first-to-invent (as well as first to file for the patent(s))

    (6) As a seller of patented technology, Samsung loses

    (7) Ignorance is not an excuse under the law

  • Reply 12 of 115
    tastowetastowe Posts: 108member
    The Samsung is bad company. What I say the samsung is destroy my America way. I want my America way products instead South Korea Samsung products. I am going not to buy any samsung products.
  • Reply 13 of 115
    droidftwdroidftw Posts: 1,009member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tastowe View Post



    What I say the samsung is destroy my America way.

     

    I love it!  <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

  • Reply 14 of 115
    eep357eep357 Posts: 11member

    "We liked to have our own identity, we liked to have our own ideas," Lockheimer said. "We were very passionate about what we were doing, and it was important that we have our own ideas."

     

    This is why Apple is suing Samsung here. Samsung took the things that were different about Android and changed them on their own to be more like iOS. They're just helping to prove Apple's case here.

  • Reply 15 of 115
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member

    Saying a feature came from Android is no defence:

     

    Apple -> Andy Rubin -> Google -> Samsung

  • Reply 16 of 115
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,664member
    "We liked to have our own identity, we liked to have our own ideas," Lockheimer said.

    And he said it with a straight face!
  • Reply 17 of 115
    ryan96ryan96 Posts: 11member
    Ok. Let me say what were all thinking.. Apple and samsung are being childish in even starting the patent wars. first off apple didn't even invent the iphone shape so why patent an idea and not actual inventions. The whole "slide to unlock" and the basic idea of a "smartphone" we all acknowledge the fact that apple changed the game and smartphone itself with the iPhone. And slide to unlock was probably on the iPhone before it was on anything else. But the never ending wars that are going on, no customer cares about it, so stop it, and spend your billions on something else. Not to mention every other headline about apple (on AI or otherwise) has to do with samsung and patents. It gets [B]really[/B] annoying.
  • Reply 18 of 115
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by Ryan96 View Post

    Apple and samsung are being childish in even starting the patent wars.

     

    Children are one of the most vehemently expressive groups when it comes to property.

     

    I would imagine that Apple takes being called childish in regard to patents as a compliment.

     

    …why patent an idea…


     

    Because it’s their idea.

     

    But the never ending wars that are going on, no customer cares about it, so stop it, and spend your billions on something else.


     

    We’re customers. We care. End of your argument.

  • Reply 19 of 115
    The ONE instance in which it would have been great for Forstall to have been picked up by Google. :lol:

    Samsung’s lawyer: Now, Mr. Forstall, as a representative of Android, can you tell us just who created these features?
    Forstall: Sure can. Apple.
    Samsung’s lawyer: N-now, now, Mr. Forstall… surely these features on exhibit here were present in devices before Apple’s implementation! Nay, present even in Android before Apple used them!
    Forstall: Nope. We were the first. ‘We’ meaning ‘Apple’, here, if it please the court.
    Samsung’s lawyer: And just how do you think you know this, hmm?!
    Forstall: Well, for one, you called me up here, so is it in your best interest to question me, and two, take a wild guess as to how I’d know that.

    Children are one of the most vehemently expressive groups when it comes to property.

    I would imagine that Apple takes being called childish in regard to patents as a compliment.

    Because it’s their idea.

    We’re customers. We care. End of your argument.

    HEAR, HEAR, HEAR!!!!!
  • Reply 20 of 115
    Own idea means - Apple innovated, we don't do that, we copy...case rested
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