Samsung email targeted Steve Jobs' death as "our best opportunity to attack iPhone"

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  • Reply 21 of 146
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post





    Thanks! That's exactly the information I was looking for.

     

    I'll have to look for the link again, but there was a major Twitter dev asking why both devs and designers focus more on iOS when Android has 80% of the market share.  The answer was simple: iOS users spend WAY more money on apps and shopping and ads.

  • Reply 22 of 146

    Samsung is making money (the only profitable Android vendor) and they sell a lot of phones (#1 in the world). They're doing pretty good today.

    The cell phone division is making money, as you say, but as recent as December 2013 they were barely making money. It seems the 13 Billion dollar advertising budget wiped out a lot of what should have been profits. Samsung's stock holders are not at all happy with the performance of the cell phone division and that was BEFORE the fabrication of numbers came out during this trial.

    Samsung as a company is doing good... but the phone group is just getting by on paper...let's see if this trial forces some recalculating back home.
  • Reply 23 of 146
    Samsung ships a lot of low-end shit phones. If those are rolled in with their smart phones, then that an be an impressive number. Also, note that many of the analysts are shilling for Saqmsung, so any numbers being reported are suspect at best. Finally, even Samsung was over-stating their shipped numbers - even going so far as to lie to their shareholders.

    Going back to what I wrote above. Samsung's actual numbers have been purposefully overstated due to several factors. Finally, since all reports of actual internet phone and tablet traffic; 80% to 85% being done from Apple iPhones and iPads seem to point to Apple clearly shipping the bulk of devices and making the bulk of profits.

    Only Samsung knows what they are thinking, just as only Samsung knows what they are actually shipping. They are shaping up to be a den of thieves with not even honor among themselves. Witness the recent departure of several head rats.

    Gotcha.

    So from what you and Corrections have said above... Samsung is basically a bunch of liars whose best days are behind them. :D
  • Reply 24 of 146
    aaronj wrote: »
    I'll have to look for the link again, but there was a major Twitter dev asking why both devs and designers focus more on iOS when Android has 80% of the market share.  The answer was simple: iOS users spend WAY more money on apps and shopping and ads.

    Yeah... I've heard that too.
  • Reply 25 of 146
    The cell phone division is making money, as you say, but as recent as December 2013 they were barely making money. It seems the 13 Billion dollar advertising budget wiped out a lot of what should have been profits. Samsung's stock holders are not at all happy with the performance of the cell phone division and that was BEFORE the fabrication of numbers came out during this trial.

    Samsung as a company is doing good... but the phone group is just getting by on paper...let's see if this trial forces some recalculating back home.

    Wow... I didn't know all that!

    Yeah it would be nice if they could at least give accurate numbers to their shareholders.

    Gotta be honest (which seems to be a challenge for Samsung)
  • Reply 26 of 146
    pigybankpigybank Posts: 178member
    Samscum!
  • Reply 27 of 146
    aaronj wrote: »
    I'll have to look for the link again, but there was a major Twitter dev asking why both devs and designers focus more on iOS when Android has 80% of the market share.  The answer was simple: iOS users spend WAY more money on apps and shopping and ads.

    In addition the SDK for producing iOS apps is superior to what is available for the Android platform. I can produce an iOS app in a fraction of the time it takes to do the same thing for an Android device. Furthermore the iOS app looks better on all the iOS devices AND I can write for the latest version of iOS. Something I can't do for Android as the latest version is running on a single digit percentage of Android devices. Finally, it costs me far less to support the iOS software. The Android share of the market is overstated; possibly drastically, with nowhere the penetration in the enterprise markets as iOS. It's so bad that only ONE modified Samsung phone is approved for US Federal government purchases out of all Android phones, and NO Android tablets made the cut.

    More grist for the mill...
  • Reply 28 of 146
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post





    In addition the SDK for producing iOS apps is superior to what is available for the Android platform. I can produce an iOS app in a fraction of the time it takes to do the same thing for an Android device. Furthermore the iOS app looks better on all the iOS devices AND I can write for the latest version of iOS. Something I can't do for Android as the latest version is running on a single digit percentage of Android devices. Finally, it costs me far less to support the iOS software. The Android share of the market is overstated; possibly drastically, with nowhere the penetration in the enterprise markets as iOS. It's so bad that only ONE modified Samsung phone is approved for US Federal government purchases out of all Android phones, and NO Android tablets made the cut.



    More grist for the mill...

     

    Gotcha.  Interesting.  As a person who knows about as much about code as he knows about cricket, this is interesting info. :)

     

    Thanks.

  • Reply 29 of 146
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post





    In addition the SDK for producing iOS apps is superior to what is available for the Android platform. I can produce an iOS app in a fraction of the time it takes to do the same thing for an Android device. Furthermore the iOS app looks better on all the iOS devices AND I can write for the latest version of iOS. Something I can't do for Android as the latest version is running on a single digit percentage of Android devices. Finally, it costs me far less to support the iOS software. The Android share of the market is overstated; possibly drastically, with nowhere the penetration in the enterprise markets as iOS. It's so bad that only ONE modified Samsung phone is approved for US Federal government purchases out of all Android phones, and NO Android tablets made the cut.



    More grist for the mill...

     

    So, if iOS is so great and superior, and iPhones are so much better, why bother wasting time trying to squash Samsung / Android in the courtroom, given noone would want to buy those inferior products surely?

  • Reply 30 of 146
    Comments like this I find amusing.  Clearly you are stating that Apple have a much larger profit margin for each phone - great for Apple, not so much for the consumer who will get more bang for their buck on Samsung who cram more stuff in there for the same price. Less profit for Samsung (like I care) but more for the customer (awesome!).

    Apple's profits come from a lot of directions, but just because they pay far less for their superior components, doesn't mean they HAVE TO pass those savings on to the customer in the form of lower hardware costs. Yes they have to be competitive on pricing, but they also use some of those profits to offer Apple customers the number one customer service - after the sale service. Every touching point between Apple and their customer is better then any other manufacturer, plus the hardware and OS are designed better then other sources, The resale value is higher. The security is higher. The experience is even higher.
  • Reply 31 of 146
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bryan Tianao View Post

     

     

    So, if iOS is so great and superior, and iPhones are so much better, why bother wasting time trying to squash Samsung / Android in the courtroom, given noone would want to buy those inferior products surely?


     

    Stealing is wrong, mmkay?

     

    Samsung decided, a LONG time ago, that they would take Apple's designs and use them to their advantage.  Since then, they have been doing exactly that.

     

    That's wrong.

     

    The answer:  SQUASH them!  Beat on them like little roaches on the cement.  Don't ever give them cover, don't ever give them a way out, don't ever give them light.  Destroy, demolish, detonate.

     

    They want to play with the big boys?  Good for them.  Let's get ready to rumble.

  • Reply 32 of 146
    So, if iOS is so great and superior, and iPhones are so much better, why bother wasting time trying to squash Samsung / Android in the courtroom, given noone would want to buy those inferior products surely?

    Because Apple is making a statement by suing Samsung that says they are serious about protecting their IP. By doing so they can keep their products from becoming commodities and can retain their prestige product status. Samsung is shameless about knocking off competitor's products in any market well beyond communication devices. Samsung has been able to do this because they are huge and have deep pockets. Apple is the first company to defend themselves from such behavior by Samsung. If Samsung loses this case, it may open the floodgates of many other manufacturers suing Samsung and use this case to leverage their claims.

    If you read the news, many manufacturers have sued counterfeiters and have been successful because the counterfeiters are usually very small. Samsung practically copied the Apple hardware look and software UI so completely that Samsung's own lawyers COULD NOT tell which was which when the judge held them both up... this is how a customer can be tricked into buying one brand when they asked to see another... and that's been criminally wrong for a long time.
  • Reply 33 of 146
    Wow... I didn't know all that!

    Yeah it would be nice if they could at least give accurate numbers to their shareholders.

    Gotta be honest (which seems to be a challenge for Samsung)


    Samsung's dishonesty starts from the very top. Their president is a multiple felon within his own country.
  • Reply 34 of 146
    No, I think people here are trying to find anyway possible to take a jab at Samsung and are over blowing this.

    What did he state?  That Job's passing is getting people to look at Apple more during that time, which is unfortunate for Samsung. Yes, for Samsung from business viewpoint it could end up with less sales while people focus on Apple. 
    He also, states this is the best opportunity to attack iPhone.. but I don't believe he meant Job's death was the best time - that would be quite stupid actually, as people would turn away from Samsung if there was even a hint of such callousness. Samsung was in the middle of the legal battle with Apple at the time, but still extended their sympathy for the loss of Steve.  No, if you look at the email trail, he was quoting from 4th October on the strategy of showing how advanced Samsung/Google are compared to iPhone (before Jobs death) and merely restates this as the best opportunity to attack iPhone the next day - not because of Jobs death, but because he keeps on trying to drum into the execs that they have to act now. 

    He wasn't having a dig at the passing of Jobs. Merely continuing to do his job and try and find angles to promote Samsung.  That's what he is paid to do.

    Exactly. The headline incites disgust, but the article suggests SJs passing was mentioned as a footnote.
  • Reply 35 of 146
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member

    Well, goodnight.

  • Reply 36 of 146

    Look, frankly I do agree the original Samsung Galaxy S was pretty much a direct copy of the iPhone.. to the point even Google told them to try and differentiate more.. Yes, call it slimey or whatever, that's what Samsung sometimes does. Well, Apple won and got $1b. Case closed. Since then though, Android has come into's it's own and the Galaxy phones have a much wider range of features etc.. they are DIFFERENT to iPhone. 

    Did Apple really expect to be the only Smartphone player in town?  Wouldn't that be like the company with the first LCD TV trying to sue all others that stop using Cathode Ray tubes and move to LCD? ...  Not to mention there were good devices like the HP IPAQ about 5 years prior to iPhone which was good for the time.  

    Google & Samsung came up with the 7" and 8" form factor, which Steve famously said he would never get into as you would need to sand paper your finger to be able to use it... Well Apple did follow into that market.. Should Samsung/Google have tried to block this new entrant to the market through the courts?  Samsung created the 'phablet' market which Apple is now also rumoured to be entering. Should they sue there too?

     

    Apple is doing well and doesn't need to continue this thermonuclear war with Android. Keep innovating and competing with Android. Heck, pinch the best bits of Android and use it in iOS if you have to (which they are doing with notification bars etc) - we all benefit in the end.

  • Reply 37 of 146
    Look, frankly I do agree the original Samsung Galaxy S was pretty much a direct copy of the iPhone.. to the point even Google told them to try and differentiate more.. Yes, call it slimey or whatever, that's what Samsung sometimes does. Well, Apple won and got $1b. Case closed. Since then though, Android has come into's it's own and the Galaxy phones have a much wider range of features etc.. they are DIFFERENT to iPhone. 
    Did Apple really expect to be the only Smartphone player in town?  Wouldn't that be like the company with the first LCD TV trying to sue all others that stop using Cathode Ray tubes and move to LCD? ...  Not to mention there were good devices like the HP IPAQ about 5 years prior to iPhone which was good for the time.  
    Google & Samsung came up with the 7" and 8" form factor, which Steve famously said he would never get into as you would need to sand paper your finger to be able to use it... Well Apple did follow into that market.. Should Samsung/Google have tried to block this new entrant to the market through the courts?  Samsung created the 'phablet' market which Apple is now also rumoured to be entering. Should they sue there too?

    Apple is doing well and doesn't need to continue this thermonuclear war with Android. Keep innovating and competing with Android. Heck, pinch the best bits of Android and use it in iOS if you have to (which they are doing with notification bars etc) - we all benefit in the end.

    These lawsuits aren't as much about "copying" as they are about infringing on Apple's IP.

    What's the point of having patents, trademarks, trade dress and copyrights if you don't defend them?

    Apple is free to enter any market they want... as long as they don't infringe on someone else's property.

    If they do... or if anyone else does... that's for the courts to decide.
  • Reply 38 of 146
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    aaronj wrote: »
    Stealing is wrong, mmkay?

    Samsung decided, a LONG time ago, that they would take Apple's designs and use them to their advantage.  Since then, they have been doing exactly that.

    That's wrong.

    The answer:  SQUASH them!  Beat on them like little roaches on the cement.  Don't ever give them cover, don't ever give them a way out, don't ever give them light.  Destroy, demolish, detonate.

    They want to play with the big boys?  Good for them.  Let's get ready to rumble.

    I love sports! Not so much wrestling of today... but I'll take your cue and state what I would do if I was at Apple and would like to put the "hurt" on Samsung.

    Here's a) Back Breaker, b) Body Slam, c) Rope Splatter(?)... and d) Full Nelson FTW:

    a) bigger iPhones and yes 2 of them; rumors point to this and I tend to agree it's (about!) time. That marketing/ad point will be dead. = Dazed response from Samsung.

    b) those 2 new sizes offered at the same price as iPhone 5s today, with only the starting storage being different i.e. 16gb (bigger size) or 32gb (smaller size)... essentially the "perfect choice conundrum" that would weed out the "question of which size consumers prefer" (completely different than the other "size" question... don't go there!). = Looking up from the canvas into a thunderous tornado (picture that @mstone... really picture it!) of iPhones desending from the heavens..." is that SJ throwing "Thunderbolts" at me?!"

    c) iPhone 5s lives on... possibly with the same internals as today, maybe tweaked... bit the price drops $100. across the board. = Oh no... that's not thunderbolts he's throwing, it's a Ballmer, followed by a Andy Rubin, a Larry and Sergei candy confection... Heins, Chen, Balsillie... and Lazaridis with a hockey stick aimed for my throat(?!)

    d) iPhone 5c becomes the "promotional" (free) iPhone that it has always been meant to be. 8gb gets dropped worldwide (a stupid idea really!) and 16gb installed as the starting price of $0/contract or $399 purchase. = After becoming pummeled by the weight of every other mobile device maker that Samsung helped to destroy, they will be put out of their misery trying to come up with any relevant ad campaign to counter this full frontal attack. In bare conscientiousness Samsung hits the mat 3 times and is relevated to being the "premier feature phone" supplier to those that want "good enough" or can afford not much else. I do wish them success in the "Ballroom Have Tights-Will-Travel League" ... The End... :smokey:

    "Creative Writing 101" aside... Apple has the ability to seriously hurt Samsung this year where it counts.... if they really, really want to.... that is their pocketbook.

    It may mean Apple dropping their margins to 25% for a period of time... but they also have the ability to raise their profits by being able to purchase all of the unused capacity of memory, chips and other materials at bargain basement prices in the short and long-term. Plus add other "expensive" features and functions to their devices in the future, thus being able to elevate their margins by just staying consistent on the "new" selling prices.

    *** One last thing (my favorite segment of all time!)... IF Apple also decides to get a bit more chummy with Microsoft and make them the "default services" (I called for a "tag team" yesterday... how prescient is that?)... they could also seriously burn Google at the same time, possibly forcing Google to pay for search services on the iDevices of the future or be left off of the "ad-serving" portion. And boy would I make them pay!!!! (I don't personally know how this works... but I do know that Google paying for search integration at Mozilla is what has them floating for so many years...?)
  • Reply 39 of 146
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,312member

    This is all part of the way business gets done: exploit whatever weaknesses, real, imagined, or contrived that you can to get ahead of the competition. As long as it's legal and ethical then all is fair in the world of competitive global business. It's very naive to think that these types of conversations, like exploiting the loss of a strong company leader like Steve Jobs or talks about "attacking" a competitors customers (like Apple did with the "I'm a Mac, you're a PC" campaign) don't take place behind closed boardroom doors on a regular basis - in every line of business imaginable and on every day of the week. It may be unseemly, ugly, classless, and dripping with sleaze - but that's exactly what happens inside the bowels of business strategy and execution on a regular basis.

     

    Please remember that this is all business and the battles that are being waged are very far removed from anything that we as consumers should feel personally threatened or affected by. This isn't our battle or our war, this is business. It's no different than any of the many business battles and wars that have taken place over the ages: Tesla vs. Edison, Ford vs. Chevy, Boeing vs. Airbus, Microsoft vs. IBM, etc. When there's a big prize up for grabs like there is today in the smartphone business and fully connected ecosystems, you'd better expect that some mud is going to get slung. If you want to pick a side as a spectator and start brandishing moralities and talk of things like "fairness" and who's doing who wrong you'd better be careful. In the depths of the scrum pile it's every man for himself and everyone on every side is clawing and scratching - within the bounds of legal and ethical constraints of course, to come out with the ball. Don't be fooled by the pretty facades that the protagonists create for us to see while they wage their campaigns and fight their battles. Their battles, not our battles. Neither side is all-good or all-bad, they're just businessmen trying to come out on top. And don't be appalled or act surprised when the facade peels back for a second or two and we catch a fleeting glimpse of what's happening on the other side. Do you REALLY want to know how that hot dog gets made? 

     

    Finally, if you really believe that the car you drive or the smartphone you use defines who you are as a person and your value to yourself, your family, and society then you should consider reevaluating your priorities. Or maybe just stepping back for a while from staring too closely behind the boardroom doors where the wars of others are being fought, lest you get drawn into a battle by proxy that has no real tangible outcome for you either way. Frankly, I would imagine that most of us have enough issues to deal with in our own lives and we don't need to adopt other people's problems, even at a highly abstract level that Apple vs. Samsung represents. 

  • Reply 40 of 146
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    "Ballroom-[I][B]Have-Tights-Will-Travel[/B][/I] League" could become "Have-[B]T*Ts[/B]-Will-Travel"... because we all know "sex sells" and to my knowledge, Samsung hasn't tried this "naughty" trick yet.

    "It's" the only thing... hopefully big... thing left in the Galaxy to exploit... :D
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