But Apple can't continue to constantly buy back shares to prevent sell offs forever.
If that is true, then it is as true before as after the stock split since the stock split has absolutely no effect on the share buyback.
Also I would point out that AAPL is considered undervalued by most stock analysts and that they have a lower P/E ratio than most of their competitors making the argument that their stock continues to be undervalued as it has been for some time.
If that is true, then it is as true before as after the stock split since the stock split has absolutely no effect on the share buyback.
Also I would point out that AAPL is considered undervalued by most stock analysts and that they have a lower P/E ratio than most of their competitors making the argument that their stock continues to be undervalued as it has been for some time.
AAPL P/E: 13.67
Google's P/E: 28.03
MSFT P/E: 14.97
Facebook P/E: 73.37
Amazon P/E: 476..41
Netflix P/E: 121.08
MSFT and Apple are both dividend stocks. All of the others listed are grossly overvalued and shouldn't even be compared against one another.
Look at Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, and companies that have stabilized, Google is stable in terms of their quarterly earnings.
Facebook is grossly overvalued. So is Amazon, so is Netflix and those companies aren't dividend stocks.
Quit trying to compare Apples to Oranges (no pun intended)
If you want to look at dividend stocks then just compare dividend stock, if you want to compare risky high growth stocks, then compare those against one another. If you look at Amazon, their stock has been taking a nosedive lately and it wouldn't surprise me if it continues through the next couple of quarters until Christmas kicks in when they do more business.
I haven't studied NetFlix and I try not to pay any attention to Facebook because I don't like the company and how they sold their iPO with a ton of shares.
Google has a more stable P/E because their earnings are more stable, but they are still younger than MSFT, APPL, INTL, CISCO.
Some companies are also very cyclical and some aren't. So you have to look at their cycles.
I'm in agreement with those that say that we shouldn't be putting our Apple Fanboyism when it comes to analyzing a stock and I think some people are guilty of this. The numbers are the numbers and leave the Fanboyism on hold while you look at the numbers of what it's done over the past year, and what the most likely scenario is for the next 12 months.
Until Apple does some major announcements so I'm not so cautious I'm just VERY cautious. I don't like THINKING they are going to something when in reality they aren't or can't. 7 months to me is a LONG time without product announcements.
I certainly hope they make some killer announcements at WWDC. I really do. I don't like being cautious with Apple, but the last 24 months as made me VERY cautious. What I want Apple to do and what they will do are two different things. I want them to come out with the iPhone 6 in June for several reasons. 1. So I can buy one. 2. So it can grab a LOT of market share away from Android 3. so it doesn't get crammed into everything else at the end of the year. Will it happen? I don't know.
Don't make me out to be the bad guy because you think they are going up from today on when I don't think they are. This is just a cautious time until after WWDC and the current quarter results, which are typically worse than the previous quarter due to going into the summer.
Since these are 2 completely independent events that don't affect each other, they occur close to each other at times and far from each other at other times.
It just doesn't matter since neither event has any effect on the other.
If you want to think that way go right ahead. I'll think what I want and I've had a pretty damn good track record for predicting Apple until a couple of years ago when I didn't see the sign of a melt down, now I'm recognizing that the company and stock is becoming a dividend stock and the dymanics surrounding Apple are far different. I think they could be doing better from a company standpoint, but they are just slowly moving right now. Maybe that will change but these stock buybacks I see them as temporary stock plays and falsely manipulating the stock price from what it would have normally done and what it most likely WILL do. they can't always run in to save the day which that's all that buyback tries to do.
First off NO ONE should be basing their investing decisions on what the price of a stock was LAST year. You are saying people should not invest in Apple now because the price is higher than last year. Really? So are you telling me it was stupid to invest in Apple in 2005 when the price was $40 since the price was only $20 in 2004? Crazy talk. You don't base the buy/sell decision on price history.
You need to base it on forecasted earnings in the next year, 5 years, and 10 years down the line. What happened last year was last year and should have ZERO effect on your decision to buy Apple.
So why was Apple $385 last year and $571 now? Easy. Apple was reporting quarterly AND yearly profit decline. EPS was declining on an average of 10%. If that trend continued the stock would easily stay at $400 and eventually $300. So why is it $571? Because they just announced that EPS GREW 15% this quarter after EPS DECLINE of 10% the last fiscal year. Earnings grow leads to higher PE ratio's and higher stock prices. The buyback is also helping. Apple has already purchased about 7% of the total shares. All things equal that means the shares you hold are worth 7% more. Cook also increased the dividend and made it clear that yearly dividend increases are part of the long term plan. That is EXACTLY what value and income investors want to hear.
Once the $90,000,000,000 is done in 2015 then things will get very interesting. Apple should be generating $60,000,000,000 of free cash flows a year and could easily raise the dividend by 100%. By then the stock will probably be valued close to fair value and there would be no need to do additional buybacks.
So if you are going to say Apple is OVER-VALUED you need to bring facts to the table. You can't say its because the price is higher than last year. Are the circumstances the same as last year? No. We are at 15% earnings growth instead of 10% earnings decline. So what are your facts?
You think profits will fall?
You think iPhone will fail?
You think the new products will fail?
You think the buybacks/dividends/Split will hurt?
Give us your reasons or you look like a troll.
Here are my reasons why I think the stock is still UNDER-VALUED and why I bought another 50 shares at $570:
1. Wall street sentiment has changed. So obvious. Stocks are on a great rotation. Wall Street loves to rotate into one stock and then rotate out of it. In 2009-2012 they loved Apple and hated Google. Apple went up over 500% in that time period. Google only went up 50%. From 2012 till now it was Google that went up 100% and Apple decline. My guess is from 2014-2017 Apple will be favored and Google smashed. Wall Street makes their money by fooling Main Street. They made a killing fooling Main Street into selling their Apple shares at $380 last year. They will make a killing fooling people into buying Google at $1200 this year.
2. Profit growth is back. Profits and Margins are up. 15% growth is not a small matter. Google's profits grew a mere 1% last quarter and a pathetic 6% after taking out the loss from Motorola.
3. iPhone6 will destroy the competition. The only edge the Samsung line has over Apple is screen size. That advantage ends this year. The build out of the ChinaMobile network can potentially grow iPhone sales in China by 300% in the next 18 months. Don't forget that the high middle class in China is growing at a rapid pace. Very soon the amount of consumers that can afford to buy an iPhone in China will surpass America and all of Europe COMBINED.
4. New products. iWatch will revolutionize the industry.
5. New services. A digital wallet and payments is a given. Soon Apple will have over 1,000,000,000 credit card numbers on file. Do you realize how valuable that is? Apple is also increasing its footprint in search, advertising, maps, siri, and retail.
6. Style and Retail. Cook said they will TRIPLE the amount of Apple stores in the next 12 months. Lead by former Burburry CEO Angela Ahrendts. They also have hired Paul Deneve, former CEO and president of the iconic Yves Saint Laurent luxury brand. Big things are coming.
7. Buybacks and dividends. When all is said and done Apple will buy back 15-20% of the float. In other words you own 15-20% more of the company than when the buyback began. It means your claim for the $60,000,000,000 in free cash flows every year and the $150,000,000,000 in cash is greater. If you buy now you can easily be locking into a 5-6% dividend in the near future. Think about that.
You are asking me to respond to a lot at once, so give me some time to figure out my response since you probably didn't read some of my earlier comments on what I think they should do.
One thing Cook didn't mention was the average size of these stores. Are they going to be the size of a kiosk in a country that has 10,000 potential buyers or are they going to be MegaStores with millions and millions of potential buyers. I also don't want Cook to fall into the trap of saying they are going to something and not execute. Tripling the amount of stores in 12 months is VERY ambitious. That's 800 new stores in 12 months? That tells me a lot of small kiosk stores, if you want my gut feeling. I'll respond on the others after I finished my lunch, I need to run and eat some food. But I will respond to rest your mind and STOP accusing me of being a troll. Seriously, don't act like a juvenile on that so I don't retort back. those kind of bully statements are meaningless. But I promise you, I will address what I can later today.
You do realize they reported 1% earrings growth last quarter. That is THE DEFINITION of a non-growth company yet they have a high growth PE of 28.
Their earnings are NOT stable. Their main source of revenue and profits is desktop search. A market that is shrinking rapidly every quarter. In fact their cost per click has gone down 9 straight quarters as people are using mobile devices to access the web and are using apps to do their searches such as Facebook and Twitter that do not use Google.
Again tell me why Apple is OVER-VALUED. And don't say because its price is higher than last year. Will revenues drop? Will iPhone fail? Will margins fall? If you don't give any reason you are giving an impression you are a troll (which i think you are not)
Look at Google's quarterly revenues and earnings over the past couple of years. I'm not taking about the growth of one quarter, I'm looking at their ability to post earnings with consistency, how much they go up in one quarter is not enough to judge. Google in the past would do better going into the Christmas seasons, but I haven't paid attention to Google for a while because I have no interest in them. but when I looked at their quarterly basis, I was looking at their ability to at least bring in earnings, as far as their growth? They are still considered a growth company, but they don't really sell hardware as their main source of revenue since they make money from ads, mostly. The thing about Google is they are trying to go into different markets to see what will stick, which means they are very immature company with growth potential and since they still don't many shares outstanding compared to the Microsoft's of the world, they are still considered a growth company that goes through weird quarter growth rates, but I think you are taking one growth period and labeling them rather than looking at Google from a bird's eye view.
I told you why I think Apple is still over valued. You just bought at a price I wouldn't have suggested you buy in at and your getting pissed at the messenger. You out paid, IMO, too much. Look at the P/E over the past 12 months, the P/E will guide on being over or undervalued.
First off NO ONE should be basing their investing decisions on what the price of a stock was LAST year. You are saying people should not invest in Apple now because the price is higher than last year. Really? So are you telling me it was stupid to invest in Apple in 2005 when the price was $40 since the price was only $20 in 2004? Crazy talk. You don't base the buy/sell decision on price history.
You need to base it on forecasted earnings in the next year, 5 years, and 10 years down the line. What happened last year was last year and should have ZERO effect on your decision to buy Apple.
So why was Apple $385 last year and $571 now? Easy. Apple was reporting quarterly AND yearly profit decline. EPS was declining on an average of 10%. If that trend continued the stock would easily stay at $400 and eventually $300. So why is it $571? Because they just announced that EPS GREW 15% this quarter after EPS DECLINE of 10% the last fiscal year. Earnings grow leads to higher PE ratio's and higher stock prices. The buyback is also helping. Apple has already purchased about 7% of the total shares. All things equal that means the shares you hold are worth 7% more. Cook also increased the dividend and made it clear that yearly dividend increases are part of the long term plan. That is EXACTLY what value and income investors want to hear.
Once the $90,000,000,000 is done in 2015 then things will get very interesting. Apple should be generating $60,000,000,000 of free cash flows a year and could easily raise the dividend by 100%. By then the stock will probably be valued close to fair value and there would be no need to do additional buybacks.
So if you are going to say Apple is OVER-VALUED you need to bring facts to the table. You can't say its because the price is higher than last year. Are the circumstances the same as last year? No. We are at 15% earnings growth instead of 10% earnings decline. So what are your facts?
You think profits will fall?
You think iPhone will fail?
You think the new products will fail?
You think the buybacks/dividends/Split will hurt?
Give us your reasons or you look like a troll.
Here are my reasons why I think the stock is still UNDER-VALUED and why I bought another 50 shares at $570:
1. Wall street sentiment has changed. So obvious. Stocks are on a great rotation. Wall Street loves to rotate into one stock and then rotate out of it. In 2009-2012 they loved Apple and hated Google. Apple went up over 500% in that time period. Google only went up 50%. From 2012 till now it was Google that went up 100% and Apple decline. My guess is from 2014-2017 Apple will be favored and Google smashed. Wall Street makes their money by fooling Main Street. They made a killing fooling Main Street into selling their Apple shares at $380 last year. They will make a killing fooling people into buying Google at $1200 this year.
2. Profit growth is back. Profits and Margins are up. 15% growth is not a small matter. Google's profits grew a mere 1% last quarter and a pathetic 6% after taking out the loss from Motorola.
3. iPhone6 will destroy the competition. The only edge the Samsung line has over Apple is screen size. That advantage ends this year. The build out of the ChinaMobile network can potentially grow iPhone sales in China by 300% in the next 18 months. Don't forget that the high middle class in China is growing at a rapid pace. Very soon the amount of consumers that can afford to buy an iPhone in China will surpass America and all of Europe COMBINED.
4. New products. iWatch will revolutionize the industry.
5. New services. A digital wallet and payments is a given. Soon Apple will have over 1,000,000,000 credit card numbers on file. Do you realize how valuable that is? Apple is also increasing its footprint in search, advertising, maps, siri, and retail.
6. Style and Retail. Cook said they will TRIPLE the amount of Apple stores in the next 12 months. Lead by former Burburry CEO Angela Ahrendts. They also have hired Paul Deneve, former CEO and president of the iconic Yves Saint Laurent luxury brand. Big things are coming.
7. Buybacks and dividends. When all is said and done Apple will buy back 15-20% of the float. In other words you own 15-20% more of the company than when the buyback began. It means your claim for the $60,000,000,000 in free cash flows every year and the $150,000,000,000 in cash is greater. If you buy now you can easily be locking into a 5-6% dividend in the near future. Think about that.
First off, I've already addressed many things you are asking about. if you have a different opinion, then that's your opinion. NOW, the only things i feel comfortable in addressing that i haven't addressed that I WANT to address is this.
1. First off, you sound like you contradict yourself. You mention how I shouldn't look at the past performance of stock and then you look at past performances of companies. Which one is it? I can't help it if you blew $28,500 on 50 shares at $570. If you want my advice, as someone that's just giving you friendly advice as a non-professional stock advisor, I will say this. First you might want to think about dollar cost averaging if/when that stock takes a nose dive and don't play this "FLOAT" BS. That "FLOAT" you speak of is meant more of the professionals that can leverage and better predict these "FLOATS" as you say.. You are a small time investor with 50 shares. You can't compete against people that are trading MILLIONS of dollars worth of stock. So don't even try.
2. Profit for one quarter seems to be good because they had a bunch of sales/demand left over from December quarter. But one quarter does NOT make a year. You have to see some consistency first. And in order for Apple to see 15 to 20% gains over every quarter, they not only have to release products to meet the demand, but they have to be able to make enough to REACH a 15 to 20% year to year quarterly earnings. If they can't produce 15% to 20% across the board (if there is that much demand) for producing that growth rate, then they might not be able to consistently grow 15% to 20%. Remember, they did 50 Million iPhones last Dec. do you think they are going to be able to produce and sell 60 Million to reach just a 20% increase in iPhone revenues/profits from the year before? That remains to be seen, what happens if they only manage to squeeze out 55 Million iPhones this Dec.?
3. iWatch hasn't been released. Again, I have mentioned this before. To me, it's probably not going to bring in HUGE amounts of profits because I don't think it's going to do that. It'll help a little, but I doubt it will make any significant impact on earnings. Again, I haven't seen what they are going to release, so I don't know any more than just rumors. Be careful of speculating based on rumors. It's not good to get overly excited about it from an investment perspective. I treat rumors just as a side nobby, but I try not to let it influence my stock predictions because these rumors aren't always true.
4. I don't doubt the demand that's being created for iPhone 6's, etc., but I'm more worried about their release dates and production ramp up. Can they meet the demand they're creating and are they going to clog the system with too many models at once or spread out the releases so they can increase ALL quarters.
5. Digital Wallet? BIG F-ing DEAL. That's not going to bring in tons of profits. It's a feature, not a monetized service that I can see. Does Apple make a percentage of each transaction? If they did, then I want to see how they are going to monetize it by how much they make per transaction and how many transactions there are a quarter, etc. etc. One thing to be careful of, services drain resources (DATA CENTERS) which cost money, so unless there is some way to monetize those transactions, it's kind of a feature that doesn't bring in direct profits. So be careful.\
The rest I'm not going to address because I've probably already have addressed earlier or I simply don't have spare time to do research for you without getting paid. If you want me to give you more insight moving forward, I'm going to have to charge you money for private consulting services with the knowledge that I accept no responsibility as simply a consultant. You obviously aren't going to listen to me, so go stand behind your $570 a share purchase THINKING it's going to hit $700 a share. Look at the 12 month target, it's now $601 on Yahoo! finance. It was $585 just a couple of days ago. And you bought at how much? $570? OOOPS. If I were you, I would start saving money to do a dollar cost average when that stock tumbles and reaches a P/E of around 10 or 11, which may happen this summer. It did last year and history does repeat itself. Look at the 1, 2, 3 year trend lines, look at the last couple of quarter trend lines, etc. and see what trends you see.
I'm done answering your questions because you simply take too much of my valuable time and I don't like being called a troll just because YOU paid too much money for a stock I would have advised waiting on and paying less for. That's YOUR mistake, now own up to it. Seriously.
One last thing on Google. I personally think that Google would probably be better off getting out of the Android business because I heard a while back (I don't know if this has changed) that they actually make more money from iPhone users than Android users, so if that's still the case, they would be better off if Apple kicked Android's ass in unit sales. Take it for what it's worth.
So you are saying the stock is overvalued because the PE is higher now than last year.
Crazy talk. 5 years ago the PE was higher than today and the stock was under $300. Your reason makes no sense.
5 years ago Apple was in a serious growth mode. Those days are over and I've trying to explain this to you. As they change from a growth state bringing in lots of yearly growth, the P/E ratios are higher, but since Appe's growth has slowed down (REMEMBER LAST YEAR WHEN THEY TOOK A DUMP) and they started paying dividends, the P/E ratios have DROPPED to know what Microsoft's P/E's look like because Apple's stock is becoming very similar to Microsofts, but you compare the last 12 month P/E ratio swing from high to low to see what the latest levels are at. As you go from quarter to quarter, you can see how the P/E's are looking because it may change and it may not. So, P/E's I would only look at their range within the last 12 months, but I would look at the price trends to see how they are trending from a share price perspective.
My reasoning makes sense, you just aren't LISTENING or READING what I'm saying. Did I not say that Apple is no longer a high growth stock and it's more of a dividend stock?
A year ago, it was around $385 and went up and then took a nose dive because people like yourself get caught up in the frenzy and the professionals that control vast amounts of stocks are playing people like you that pay too much. Just because the quarterly reports were good for last quarter does't mean they are going to do the same for the present quarter. What was Cook's projections for the current quarter? And next quarter? Have you seen those? What happens if Apple doesn't do well in June? what happens if they don't do well in Sept,
I don't understand why rapid growth makes a company so valuable to investors. I would think that slow and steady growth with a long range outlook would be more valuable. Companies that quickly spurt can burn out just as fast for so many reasons. Multiple companies in the same market, each trying to spurt, would only seem to create a saturation point a lot faster. Once that market is saturated, then bye-bye to rapid growth. At that point, then suddenly those companies are no longer as valuable to investors as they were? How does that make sense? My simple mind just doesn't comprehend that type of reasoning. Whether Apple grows a lot or not, the company is generating absolutely huge amounts of money, so why should it become less valuable to investors than some high growth company that's barely making any profits? Gambling on growth just seems stupid. I can't comprehend why Priceline stock is worth $1200 a share and Apple shares aren't even worth half of that.
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/178863/apples-44-billion-in-stock-buybacks-have-helped-increase-market-cap-by-100-billion/40#post_2523505" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span><div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SolipsismX</strong> <a href="/t/178863/apples-44-billion-in-stock-buybacks-have-helped-increase-market-cap-by-100-billion/40#post_2523505"><img src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" class="inlineimg" alt="View Post"/></a><br/><br/><br />
1) Of course it's not down because there are so few companies throughout history that have been in Apple's position but, again, for the last time, THESE ARE NOT CONTRADICTORY EVENTS.<br />
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2) Anyone reading this thread, sans you, will see that Apple is a great buy. All you're doing is showing a) how fucking ignorant you are on this rudimentary subject, and b) your inability to educate yourself on the benefits of stock posits, buybacks, and dividends.<br />
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3) If you're goal is to keep people from buying Apple from a poorly contrived and invented argument then how can you say you're not trolling… not that I'd expect a troll to admit it.</div></div><p> </p>
When they bought shares a couple of days ago, it wasn't at a low point, it was at a high point. The 52 week low was under $400 a share, so they bought at closer to a high point for the 52 week range. I think they did it to prevent a massive selloff right when they announced the Stock Split.
No, my goal is to not have people buy when the stock is overvalued. I think it's overvalued or at least very close to that. Look at the stock price last year. It dipped lower during the summer months, so if I want people to maximize their profits for people trying to get into the stock, I would advise them waiting until they see a much lower P/E ratio, because they have traded at a much lower P/E, I think they've gone as low as 11 or slightly lower within the last year. Now, for those expecting the stock to reach $700 like it was last year, I would advise it's not going to happen that soon and they'd be better off just hanging on to the stock, do some dividend reinvestments and wait a few more years and HOPEFULLY it will hit $700 (equivalent).
I'm all for buying low and selling high, which is about as fundamental as possible. I don't see this as a low point moving forward, my gut feeling is that it will move lower within the next 6 months.
I think you are conjuring up misleading statements about MY intentions.. Your intentions are purely selfish ones, mine aren't. I just don't like it when people get suckered into thinking this stock is trading at a low point right now. What also concerns me is the Beta, it's traded at around 1 for many, many years, and it's not. It's at .7, that signifies a different level of stability. I don't like stocks that have erratic behavior. Apple bought stock because they didn't want a massive sell off the next day after their announcement, and I think that's artificially sending people the idea that this stock is going to take off like a rocket ship like it's trading at a low point. I don't think it is, that's all.
What I don't like is getting used to Apple just being the savior of the stock price THINKING they are always going to buy back shares forever when the stock is about to take a dump.
I personally have not been real thrilled with Cooks' method of handling certain things over the past couple of years. He has, IMO, room for improvement. I don't just prescribe to the "I LOVE EVERYTHING THEY DO", just because I'm a fan of the platform. I don't agree with everything that's been done, I do think there's room for improvement and I'm not just going to THINK Cook can't do no wrong, because he hasn't earned a solid A in my book yet. He's got a solid B, maybe B+, but right now, i think he's at a B for me.
Do you know that they haven't made a product announcement in about 7 months? That's a long time for Apple not to make a product announcement. Their last product announcement was in the beginning of Oct, so I could Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, March and now April with no product announcements. That's a long time in the high tech industry with a product mix like them.
Holy crap your comments are fucking nuts. I honestly hadn't realized nor expected that eventually you'd come out with these "Tim Cook can't do anything write so anything he does is therefore wrong and anyone that likes Apple is just a fanboy" comments. I really thought this was about you not understanding basic economics whilst willfully trying to remain ignorant, when it's you just trolling against Apple. Shame on you for wasting everyone's time.
Holy crap your comments are fucking nuts. I honestly hadn't realized nor expected that eventually you'd come out with these "Tim Cook can't do anything write so anything he does is therefore wrong and anyone that likes Apple is just a fanboy" comments. I really thought this was about you not understanding basic economics whilst willfully trying to remain ignorant, when it's you just trolling against Apple. Shame on you for wasting everyone's time.
What? I have to agree with you on Cook's performance? I just think he could be doing a better job. I'm a long time Apple user since '77 with a II+, so I've probably used Apple products longer than probably 90% of the people on this board. So how about you? How long have you been an Apple user?
What? I have to agree with you on Cook's performance? I just think he could be doing a better job. I'm a long time Apple user since '77 with a II+, so I've probably used Apple products longer than probably 90% of the people on this board. So how about you? How long have you been an Apple user?
Be honest.
1) You don't have to do anything but making irrational statements that you can't back up with nothing more than trollish anti-Apple comments doesn't help any valid criticism you may have once had.
2) Your "claims" of how long you've been using Apple's products and your "claims" of much longer than you've been using Apple product than other members here a) has absolutely no barring on your ability to make rational and/or sane comments, and 2) is as foolish and annoying as those that say, "I own every product Apple has ever made but Apple sucks. Buy Android."
If you think its OVER VALUED then you should sell.
I dont know why you are ignoring this simple question.
I don't directly own any Apple shares, whatever shares I own are in various mutual funds, if they own them or not. I don't always track every stock they invested in the mutual fund, just the mutual fund's growth rate. I had Apple stock I purchased in the early 2000's, but I sold many years ago and made a bit of money from it.
1) You don't have to do anything but making irrational statements that you can't back up with nothing more than trollish anti-Apple comments doesn't help any valid criticism you may have once had.
2) Your "claims" of how long you've been using Apple's products and your "claims" of much longer than you've been using Apple product than other members here a) has absolutely no barring on your ability to make rational and/or sane comments, and 2) is as foolish and annoying as those that say, "I own every product Apple has ever made but Apple sucks. Buy Android."
What's YOUR problem? I've never made a statement such that you are claiming. I own nothing but Apple products and HATE Android. And? I don't have to ALWAYS agree with upper management. I don't always have to agree with every Apple user.
If you can't handle someone being more honest about the current state of affairs of Apple, then maybe you should look in the mirror. I haven't said a thing that's anti-Apple.. And what's wrong with wanting products with certain features that they don't have, or having more frequent product releases and having products in market segments they haven't gone into yet?
I can have my own opinion on whether or not a stock is a good value or not, people have the right to agree and disagree.
What happened? Did you buy stock right after the quarterly reports and you are afraid to admit that you did and that you might have paid too much for the stock? The other member did, but he's still trying to figure out how he's going to make a profit on the stock purchase.
This quarter doesn't look like its going to be that great, so there might not be a 15% year to year quarterly growth rate when they do their reporting for this quarter. Also, if the other post about the product announcement they plan on making are true and there isn't any other major announcements, it will probably signal a stock drop. From what it sounds like they are only planning on releasing a new iMac and a lower end Mac, but no iPhone 6. I'm hoping they announce the iPhone 6, but from the sounds of it, it will be in Sept.
1) You don't have to do anything but making irrational statements that you can't back up with nothing more than trollish anti-Apple comments doesn't help any valid criticism you may have once had.
2) Your "claims" of how long you've been using Apple's products and your "claims" of much longer than you've been using Apple product than other members here a) has absolutely no barring on your ability to make rational and/or sane comments, and 2) is as foolish and annoying as those that say, "I own every product Apple has ever made but Apple sucks. Buy Android."
My "claims"? I used a Apple II+ and it also had a C/PM card in it. I didn't much care for C/PM, but I used Visicalc and taught myself how to use it and then later worked for a company out of high school while I went to college at night and used an Apple II+ and Visicalc was the program I used. My father has also known Jobs PERSONALLY, and worked for a chip mfg that was a chip supplier to Apple for many years. So, again. What's YOUR problem?
You are really one of these people that are making it difficult to want to be associated with you. You are making false statements, getting my nerves and becoming a REAL nuisance.
Once an individual starts arguing like that, and using either the t-word or the f-word, then it's time for a block.
He started it first. because he was conjuring fabrications to damage my reputation and that's slander and defamation of character. I will NOT tolerate that. He's been reported.
Not directly. Again, I'm not trying to explain this from a biased perspective. i used to when I wanted a long term high growth stock. But right now, Apple doesn't fit that mold. In a diversified portfolio, I have other stocks and mutual funds at this time and to move some of them over would not make sense at this time because I would have to sell, pay commissions, pay taxes on the profits and it's sometimes better just to leave them where they are until I can save up other money to invest. But, right now, my personal situation isn't in need of Apple's stock, but if someone came to me asking me my advice, as some have, I would tell them that if they are interested in a stock that gives decent dividends and they is turning into a stock that has some potential growth AND gives good dividends, they might take a look at Apple, but I would caution them just like anyone else about WHEN to buy. Ultimately, everyone has their own situation, aversion to risk, age levels, etc. etc. So, everyone will decide to buy/sell a stock for whatever reasons they have.
Would you want a stock analyst giving you advice that's using their own personal biases in their recommendations? I try to remove my bias towards Apple products as much as possible when analyzing the company from an investment standpoint. I've even caught myself once making the mistake of interjecting my own bias towards Apple and I forgot to really look at the numbers and in the process, I didn't catch a signal that the stock wasn't going to perform and the stock took a major drop, and I usually catch those. So, just to give you a little perspective, don't get caught up in the excitement of new products, etc because you love the company, products, etc. effect your abilities to recognize flaws in the investment. My biggest gripe is this. If Apple was consistently meeting and exceeding decent growth rates (not just one or two months) but consistently having year to year growth in the modest 15% range, and they gave proper guidance as to how Apple was moving forward to give the analysts a better solid reason to always have a "BUY" recommendation, then maybe they wouldn't have to resort to buying blocks of shares to keep the stock price up. I see these bulk purchases being used as a means to cover up the shortcomings of their ability to execute. 15% was great last quarter from the year before, but moving forward, can they repeat 15% each quarter over a year prior? The analysts don't all think they can. Plus, the biggest potential problem is relying solely on just iPhones and iPads as the cash cow. Microsoft had the same problem with Windows and Office, as these companies get bigger they have to get into new markets with new products to lessen the reliance on just iPhones and iPads for revenue. They kind of want something substantial enough to say, this is the next big thing. iWatches to me might take some of the slack that the iPods have done, but iPods shrunk to a small portion of the revenue pie. I think they are looking for something a little more substantial than iWatches to get these guys excited. They, like a lot of us, were hoping for a SmartTV, but Cook has basically said NO. is the Apple TV going to be that next big thing this year? Or is it just going to be another small enhancement that won't bring in a substantial amount of new revenue?
I think you are trying to put me down because I recognized that Apple is too expensive to buy right now and you are taking it out on me because you just bought some. Instead of listening to solid advice by looking into dollar cost averaging, dividend reinvestment and thinking more of just holding on to the stock and kind of appreciating the fact that I would try to give you probably the best most solid advice anyone could give in this situation, you try to damage my reputation. If you don't believe that the advice i gave you was to help you. Go talk to a PROFESSIONAL financial advisor and get their opinion on what to do. See if they give you better advice than I. tell them what I advice I told you and get THEIR opinion.
I'm not the type of person that's going to just be a YES MAN and just agree with you. If I think you are making a valid assessment, I'll let you know, if I think you raised an issue that I didn't see that proves your method is better, I'll let you know. But I have learned my own way of analyzing a stock/company and if I really sat down with you, it would probably take about a week of constant going back and forth to give you my full attention on this. I don't have the time to do that kind of analysis, my time is limited to spend and when you just conjure up put downs and completely take one thing I told you and twist it around to use agaist me, then all i see is a snake. I told you repeatedly certain things to look at and then you completely ignored them and the conjured up some other way of doing something and then you thought I was crazy.
I will give you the example to refresh your memory. I told you to evaluate a stock to be over or under valued, you have to look at the P/E and to see what the 12 month high/low was, but then you start comparing them to unrelated companies, then you look at 5 years ago when Apple was in hyper growth mode and I've told you repeatedly they aren't in hyper growth when they were at higher P/E ratios, since they aren't in high growth mode, their P/E won't trade in the 20's and 30's, they trade more in the teens, which is where they are. But you have to look at their lowest and highest levels from a past 12 month period to see what the high is and what the low is. When it's low, that's the best time to buy, when it's high, that's the best time to sell. You bought your shares at around the highest point in the past 12 months. And I told you that and you are trying to discredit me for buying 50 shares at what I believe to be a high point. But for some reason, you seem to think that $570 is the new low. Not yet it is. Time will tell what the new 12 month low is, but it's certainly not $570. But to help you look at ways to still make money, i gave you good advice and you never even bothered to thank me. Well, shame on me for trying to help you and shame on me for even expecting one single acknowledgement of trying to give you some good advice. So moving forward, please stop trying to attiack me first or twist around my words to suit your own level of whatever you want to call it. I'm not invested in playing that game.
I can certainly go to other sites that have better class of people and maybe i will. At least I know they don't treat people the way you've treated me. Same goes with a couple of others here.
So if you want to at least thank me for trying to help you look at Apple from a different perspective, that would go a long way, but if not, don't waste my time anymore. I've got better things to do and more appreciative people that respect my opinion and would be a lot more thankful because I don't like giving bad stock advice. I may not know everything or make an honest mistake here and there, like ALL people do, but I won't PURPOSELY try to mislead someone. That's not part of my upbringing and it's NOT part of how I do things.
Comments
But Apple can't continue to constantly buy back shares to prevent sell offs forever.
If that is true, then it is as true before as after the stock split since the stock split has absolutely no effect on the share buyback.
Also I would point out that AAPL is considered undervalued by most stock analysts and that they have a lower P/E ratio than most of their competitors making the argument that their stock continues to be undervalued as it has been for some time.
AAPL P/E: 13.67
Google's P/E: 28.03
MSFT P/E: 14.97
Facebook P/E: 73.37
Amazon P/E: 476..41
Netflix P/E: 121.08
If that is true, then it is as true before as after the stock split since the stock split has absolutely no effect on the share buyback.
Also I would point out that AAPL is considered undervalued by most stock analysts and that they have a lower P/E ratio than most of their competitors making the argument that their stock continues to be undervalued as it has been for some time.
AAPL P/E: 13.67
Google's P/E: 28.03
MSFT P/E: 14.97
Facebook P/E: 73.37
Amazon P/E: 476..41
Netflix P/E: 121.08
MSFT and Apple are both dividend stocks. All of the others listed are grossly overvalued and shouldn't even be compared against one another.
Look at Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, and companies that have stabilized, Google is stable in terms of their quarterly earnings.
Facebook is grossly overvalued. So is Amazon, so is Netflix and those companies aren't dividend stocks.
Quit trying to compare Apples to Oranges (no pun intended)
If you want to look at dividend stocks then just compare dividend stock, if you want to compare risky high growth stocks, then compare those against one another. If you look at Amazon, their stock has been taking a nosedive lately and it wouldn't surprise me if it continues through the next couple of quarters until Christmas kicks in when they do more business.
I haven't studied NetFlix and I try not to pay any attention to Facebook because I don't like the company and how they sold their iPO with a ton of shares.
Google has a more stable P/E because their earnings are more stable, but they are still younger than MSFT, APPL, INTL, CISCO.
Some companies are also very cyclical and some aren't. So you have to look at their cycles.
I'm in agreement with those that say that we shouldn't be putting our Apple Fanboyism when it comes to analyzing a stock and I think some people are guilty of this. The numbers are the numbers and leave the Fanboyism on hold while you look at the numbers of what it's done over the past year, and what the most likely scenario is for the next 12 months.
Until Apple does some major announcements so I'm not so cautious I'm just VERY cautious. I don't like THINKING they are going to something when in reality they aren't or can't. 7 months to me is a LONG time without product announcements.
I certainly hope they make some killer announcements at WWDC. I really do. I don't like being cautious with Apple, but the last 24 months as made me VERY cautious. What I want Apple to do and what they will do are two different things. I want them to come out with the iPhone 6 in June for several reasons. 1. So I can buy one. 2. So it can grab a LOT of market share away from Android 3. so it doesn't get crammed into everything else at the end of the year. Will it happen? I don't know.
Don't make me out to be the bad guy because you think they are going up from today on when I don't think they are. This is just a cautious time until after WWDC and the current quarter results, which are typically worse than the previous quarter due to going into the summer.
I'm into looking for high growth opportunities that are more of a sure thing, so that's why I'm paying attention to other stocks right now. :-)
Since these are 2 completely independent events that don't affect each other, they occur close to each other at times and far from each other at other times.
It just doesn't matter since neither event has any effect on the other.
If you want to think that way go right ahead. I'll think what I want and I've had a pretty damn good track record for predicting Apple until a couple of years ago when I didn't see the sign of a melt down, now I'm recognizing that the company and stock is becoming a dividend stock and the dymanics surrounding Apple are far different. I think they could be doing better from a company standpoint, but they are just slowly moving right now. Maybe that will change but these stock buybacks I see them as temporary stock plays and falsely manipulating the stock price from what it would have normally done and what it most likely WILL do. they can't always run in to save the day which that's all that buyback tries to do.
First off NO ONE should be basing their investing decisions on what the price of a stock was LAST year. You are saying people should not invest in Apple now because the price is higher than last year. Really? So are you telling me it was stupid to invest in Apple in 2005 when the price was $40 since the price was only $20 in 2004? Crazy talk. You don't base the buy/sell decision on price history.
You need to base it on forecasted earnings in the next year, 5 years, and 10 years down the line. What happened last year was last year and should have ZERO effect on your decision to buy Apple.
So why was Apple $385 last year and $571 now? Easy. Apple was reporting quarterly AND yearly profit decline. EPS was declining on an average of 10%. If that trend continued the stock would easily stay at $400 and eventually $300. So why is it $571? Because they just announced that EPS GREW 15% this quarter after EPS DECLINE of 10% the last fiscal year. Earnings grow leads to higher PE ratio's and higher stock prices. The buyback is also helping. Apple has already purchased about 7% of the total shares. All things equal that means the shares you hold are worth 7% more. Cook also increased the dividend and made it clear that yearly dividend increases are part of the long term plan. That is EXACTLY what value and income investors want to hear.
Once the $90,000,000,000 is done in 2015 then things will get very interesting. Apple should be generating $60,000,000,000 of free cash flows a year and could easily raise the dividend by 100%. By then the stock will probably be valued close to fair value and there would be no need to do additional buybacks.
So if you are going to say Apple is OVER-VALUED you need to bring facts to the table. You can't say its because the price is higher than last year. Are the circumstances the same as last year? No. We are at 15% earnings growth instead of 10% earnings decline. So what are your facts?
You think profits will fall?
You think iPhone will fail?
You think the new products will fail?
You think the buybacks/dividends/Split will hurt?
Give us your reasons or you look like a troll.
Here are my reasons why I think the stock is still UNDER-VALUED and why I bought another 50 shares at $570:
1. Wall street sentiment has changed. So obvious. Stocks are on a great rotation. Wall Street loves to rotate into one stock and then rotate out of it. In 2009-2012 they loved Apple and hated Google. Apple went up over 500% in that time period. Google only went up 50%. From 2012 till now it was Google that went up 100% and Apple decline. My guess is from 2014-2017 Apple will be favored and Google smashed. Wall Street makes their money by fooling Main Street. They made a killing fooling Main Street into selling their Apple shares at $380 last year. They will make a killing fooling people into buying Google at $1200 this year.
2. Profit growth is back. Profits and Margins are up. 15% growth is not a small matter. Google's profits grew a mere 1% last quarter and a pathetic 6% after taking out the loss from Motorola.
3. iPhone6 will destroy the competition. The only edge the Samsung line has over Apple is screen size. That advantage ends this year. The build out of the ChinaMobile network can potentially grow iPhone sales in China by 300% in the next 18 months. Don't forget that the high middle class in China is growing at a rapid pace. Very soon the amount of consumers that can afford to buy an iPhone in China will surpass America and all of Europe COMBINED.
4. New products. iWatch will revolutionize the industry.
5. New services. A digital wallet and payments is a given. Soon Apple will have over 1,000,000,000 credit card numbers on file. Do you realize how valuable that is? Apple is also increasing its footprint in search, advertising, maps, siri, and retail.
6. Style and Retail. Cook said they will TRIPLE the amount of Apple stores in the next 12 months. Lead by former Burburry CEO Angela Ahrendts. They also have hired Paul Deneve, former CEO and president of the iconic Yves Saint Laurent luxury brand. Big things are coming.
7. Buybacks and dividends. When all is said and done Apple will buy back 15-20% of the float. In other words you own 15-20% more of the company than when the buyback began. It means your claim for the $60,000,000,000 in free cash flows every year and the $150,000,000,000 in cash is greater. If you buy now you can easily be locking into a 5-6% dividend in the near future. Think about that.
You are asking me to respond to a lot at once, so give me some time to figure out my response since you probably didn't read some of my earlier comments on what I think they should do.
One thing Cook didn't mention was the average size of these stores. Are they going to be the size of a kiosk in a country that has 10,000 potential buyers or are they going to be MegaStores with millions and millions of potential buyers. I also don't want Cook to fall into the trap of saying they are going to something and not execute. Tripling the amount of stores in 12 months is VERY ambitious. That's 800 new stores in 12 months? That tells me a lot of small kiosk stores, if you want my gut feeling. I'll respond on the others after I finished my lunch, I need to run and eat some food. But I will respond to rest your mind and STOP accusing me of being a troll. Seriously, don't act like a juvenile on that so I don't retort back. those kind of bully statements are meaningless. But I promise you, I will address what I can later today.
Look at Google's quarterly revenues and earnings over the past couple of years. I'm not taking about the growth of one quarter, I'm looking at their ability to post earnings with consistency, how much they go up in one quarter is not enough to judge. Google in the past would do better going into the Christmas seasons, but I haven't paid attention to Google for a while because I have no interest in them. but when I looked at their quarterly basis, I was looking at their ability to at least bring in earnings, as far as their growth? They are still considered a growth company, but they don't really sell hardware as their main source of revenue since they make money from ads, mostly. The thing about Google is they are trying to go into different markets to see what will stick, which means they are very immature company with growth potential and since they still don't many shares outstanding compared to the Microsoft's of the world, they are still considered a growth company that goes through weird quarter growth rates, but I think you are taking one growth period and labeling them rather than looking at Google from a bird's eye view.
I told you why I think Apple is still over valued. You just bought at a price I wouldn't have suggested you buy in at and your getting pissed at the messenger. You out paid, IMO, too much. Look at the P/E over the past 12 months, the P/E will guide on being over or undervalued.
First off NO ONE should be basing their investing decisions on what the price of a stock was LAST year. You are saying people should not invest in Apple now because the price is higher than last year. Really? So are you telling me it was stupid to invest in Apple in 2005 when the price was $40 since the price was only $20 in 2004? Crazy talk. You don't base the buy/sell decision on price history.
You need to base it on forecasted earnings in the next year, 5 years, and 10 years down the line. What happened last year was last year and should have ZERO effect on your decision to buy Apple.
So why was Apple $385 last year and $571 now? Easy. Apple was reporting quarterly AND yearly profit decline. EPS was declining on an average of 10%. If that trend continued the stock would easily stay at $400 and eventually $300. So why is it $571? Because they just announced that EPS GREW 15% this quarter after EPS DECLINE of 10% the last fiscal year. Earnings grow leads to higher PE ratio's and higher stock prices. The buyback is also helping. Apple has already purchased about 7% of the total shares. All things equal that means the shares you hold are worth 7% more. Cook also increased the dividend and made it clear that yearly dividend increases are part of the long term plan. That is EXACTLY what value and income investors want to hear.
Once the $90,000,000,000 is done in 2015 then things will get very interesting. Apple should be generating $60,000,000,000 of free cash flows a year and could easily raise the dividend by 100%. By then the stock will probably be valued close to fair value and there would be no need to do additional buybacks.
So if you are going to say Apple is OVER-VALUED you need to bring facts to the table. You can't say its because the price is higher than last year. Are the circumstances the same as last year? No. We are at 15% earnings growth instead of 10% earnings decline. So what are your facts?
You think profits will fall?
You think iPhone will fail?
You think the new products will fail?
You think the buybacks/dividends/Split will hurt?
Give us your reasons or you look like a troll.
Here are my reasons why I think the stock is still UNDER-VALUED and why I bought another 50 shares at $570:
1. Wall street sentiment has changed. So obvious. Stocks are on a great rotation. Wall Street loves to rotate into one stock and then rotate out of it. In 2009-2012 they loved Apple and hated Google. Apple went up over 500% in that time period. Google only went up 50%. From 2012 till now it was Google that went up 100% and Apple decline. My guess is from 2014-2017 Apple will be favored and Google smashed. Wall Street makes their money by fooling Main Street. They made a killing fooling Main Street into selling their Apple shares at $380 last year. They will make a killing fooling people into buying Google at $1200 this year.
2. Profit growth is back. Profits and Margins are up. 15% growth is not a small matter. Google's profits grew a mere 1% last quarter and a pathetic 6% after taking out the loss from Motorola.
3. iPhone6 will destroy the competition. The only edge the Samsung line has over Apple is screen size. That advantage ends this year. The build out of the ChinaMobile network can potentially grow iPhone sales in China by 300% in the next 18 months. Don't forget that the high middle class in China is growing at a rapid pace. Very soon the amount of consumers that can afford to buy an iPhone in China will surpass America and all of Europe COMBINED.
4. New products. iWatch will revolutionize the industry.
5. New services. A digital wallet and payments is a given. Soon Apple will have over 1,000,000,000 credit card numbers on file. Do you realize how valuable that is? Apple is also increasing its footprint in search, advertising, maps, siri, and retail.
6. Style and Retail. Cook said they will TRIPLE the amount of Apple stores in the next 12 months. Lead by former Burburry CEO Angela Ahrendts. They also have hired Paul Deneve, former CEO and president of the iconic Yves Saint Laurent luxury brand. Big things are coming.
7. Buybacks and dividends. When all is said and done Apple will buy back 15-20% of the float. In other words you own 15-20% more of the company than when the buyback began. It means your claim for the $60,000,000,000 in free cash flows every year and the $150,000,000,000 in cash is greater. If you buy now you can easily be locking into a 5-6% dividend in the near future. Think about that.
First off, I've already addressed many things you are asking about. if you have a different opinion, then that's your opinion. NOW, the only things i feel comfortable in addressing that i haven't addressed that I WANT to address is this.
1. First off, you sound like you contradict yourself. You mention how I shouldn't look at the past performance of stock and then you look at past performances of companies. Which one is it? I can't help it if you blew $28,500 on 50 shares at $570. If you want my advice, as someone that's just giving you friendly advice as a non-professional stock advisor, I will say this. First you might want to think about dollar cost averaging if/when that stock takes a nose dive and don't play this "FLOAT" BS. That "FLOAT" you speak of is meant more of the professionals that can leverage and better predict these "FLOATS" as you say.. You are a small time investor with 50 shares. You can't compete against people that are trading MILLIONS of dollars worth of stock. So don't even try.
2. Profit for one quarter seems to be good because they had a bunch of sales/demand left over from December quarter. But one quarter does NOT make a year. You have to see some consistency first. And in order for Apple to see 15 to 20% gains over every quarter, they not only have to release products to meet the demand, but they have to be able to make enough to REACH a 15 to 20% year to year quarterly earnings. If they can't produce 15% to 20% across the board (if there is that much demand) for producing that growth rate, then they might not be able to consistently grow 15% to 20%. Remember, they did 50 Million iPhones last Dec. do you think they are going to be able to produce and sell 60 Million to reach just a 20% increase in iPhone revenues/profits from the year before? That remains to be seen, what happens if they only manage to squeeze out 55 Million iPhones this Dec.?
3. iWatch hasn't been released. Again, I have mentioned this before. To me, it's probably not going to bring in HUGE amounts of profits because I don't think it's going to do that. It'll help a little, but I doubt it will make any significant impact on earnings. Again, I haven't seen what they are going to release, so I don't know any more than just rumors. Be careful of speculating based on rumors. It's not good to get overly excited about it from an investment perspective. I treat rumors just as a side nobby, but I try not to let it influence my stock predictions because these rumors aren't always true.
4. I don't doubt the demand that's being created for iPhone 6's, etc., but I'm more worried about their release dates and production ramp up. Can they meet the demand they're creating and are they going to clog the system with too many models at once or spread out the releases so they can increase ALL quarters.
5. Digital Wallet? BIG F-ing DEAL. That's not going to bring in tons of profits. It's a feature, not a monetized service that I can see. Does Apple make a percentage of each transaction? If they did, then I want to see how they are going to monetize it by how much they make per transaction and how many transactions there are a quarter, etc. etc. One thing to be careful of, services drain resources (DATA CENTERS) which cost money, so unless there is some way to monetize those transactions, it's kind of a feature that doesn't bring in direct profits. So be careful.\
The rest I'm not going to address because I've probably already have addressed earlier or I simply don't have spare time to do research for you without getting paid. If you want me to give you more insight moving forward, I'm going to have to charge you money for private consulting services with the knowledge that I accept no responsibility as simply a consultant. You obviously aren't going to listen to me, so go stand behind your $570 a share purchase THINKING it's going to hit $700 a share. Look at the 12 month target, it's now $601 on Yahoo! finance. It was $585 just a couple of days ago. And you bought at how much? $570? OOOPS. If I were you, I would start saving money to do a dollar cost average when that stock tumbles and reaches a P/E of around 10 or 11, which may happen this summer. It did last year and history does repeat itself. Look at the 1, 2, 3 year trend lines, look at the last couple of quarter trend lines, etc. and see what trends you see.
I'm done answering your questions because you simply take too much of my valuable time and I don't like being called a troll just because YOU paid too much money for a stock I would have advised waiting on and paying less for. That's YOUR mistake, now own up to it. Seriously.
One last thing on Google. I personally think that Google would probably be better off getting out of the Android business because I heard a while back (I don't know if this has changed) that they actually make more money from iPhone users than Android users, so if that's still the case, they would be better off if Apple kicked Android's ass in unit sales. Take it for what it's worth.
So you are saying the stock is overvalued because the PE is higher now than last year.
Crazy talk. 5 years ago the PE was higher than today and the stock was under $300. Your reason makes no sense.
5 years ago Apple was in a serious growth mode. Those days are over and I've trying to explain this to you. As they change from a growth state bringing in lots of yearly growth, the P/E ratios are higher, but since Appe's growth has slowed down (REMEMBER LAST YEAR WHEN THEY TOOK A DUMP) and they started paying dividends, the P/E ratios have DROPPED to know what Microsoft's P/E's look like because Apple's stock is becoming very similar to Microsofts, but you compare the last 12 month P/E ratio swing from high to low to see what the latest levels are at. As you go from quarter to quarter, you can see how the P/E's are looking because it may change and it may not. So, P/E's I would only look at their range within the last 12 months, but I would look at the price trends to see how they are trending from a share price perspective.
My reasoning makes sense, you just aren't LISTENING or READING what I'm saying. Did I not say that Apple is no longer a high growth stock and it's more of a dividend stock?
A year ago, it was around $385 and went up and then took a nose dive because people like yourself get caught up in the frenzy and the professionals that control vast amounts of stocks are playing people like you that pay too much. Just because the quarterly reports were good for last quarter does't mean they are going to do the same for the present quarter. What was Cook's projections for the current quarter? And next quarter? Have you seen those? What happens if Apple doesn't do well in June? what happens if they don't do well in Sept,
I agree with you.
Holy crap your comments are fucking nuts. I honestly hadn't realized nor expected that eventually you'd come out with these "Tim Cook can't do anything write so anything he does is therefore wrong and anyone that likes Apple is just a fanboy" comments. I really thought this was about you not understanding basic economics whilst willfully trying to remain ignorant, when it's you just trolling against Apple. Shame on you for wasting everyone's time.
Holy crap your comments are fucking nuts. I honestly hadn't realized nor expected that eventually you'd come out with these "Tim Cook can't do anything write so anything he does is therefore wrong and anyone that likes Apple is just a fanboy" comments. I really thought this was about you not understanding basic economics whilst willfully trying to remain ignorant, when it's you just trolling against Apple. Shame on you for wasting everyone's time.
What? I have to agree with you on Cook's performance? I just think he could be doing a better job. I'm a long time Apple user since '77 with a II+, so I've probably used Apple products longer than probably 90% of the people on this board. So how about you? How long have you been an Apple user?
Be honest.
1) You don't have to do anything but making irrational statements that you can't back up with nothing more than trollish anti-Apple comments doesn't help any valid criticism you may have once had.
2) Your "claims" of how long you've been using Apple's products and your "claims" of much longer than you've been using Apple product than other members here a) has absolutely no barring on your ability to make rational and/or sane comments, and 2) is as foolish and annoying as those that say, "I own every product Apple has ever made but Apple sucks. Buy Android."
So have you sold your Apple stock or not?
If you think its OVER VALUED then you should sell.
I dont know why you are ignoring this simple question.
I don't directly own any Apple shares, whatever shares I own are in various mutual funds, if they own them or not. I don't always track every stock they invested in the mutual fund, just the mutual fund's growth rate. I had Apple stock I purchased in the early 2000's, but I sold many years ago and made a bit of money from it.
1) You don't have to do anything but making irrational statements that you can't back up with nothing more than trollish anti-Apple comments doesn't help any valid criticism you may have once had.
2) Your "claims" of how long you've been using Apple's products and your "claims" of much longer than you've been using Apple product than other members here a) has absolutely no barring on your ability to make rational and/or sane comments, and 2) is as foolish and annoying as those that say, "I own every product Apple has ever made but Apple sucks. Buy Android."
What's YOUR problem? I've never made a statement such that you are claiming. I own nothing but Apple products and HATE Android. And? I don't have to ALWAYS agree with upper management. I don't always have to agree with every Apple user.
If you can't handle someone being more honest about the current state of affairs of Apple, then maybe you should look in the mirror. I haven't said a thing that's anti-Apple.. And what's wrong with wanting products with certain features that they don't have, or having more frequent product releases and having products in market segments they haven't gone into yet?
I can have my own opinion on whether or not a stock is a good value or not, people have the right to agree and disagree.
What happened? Did you buy stock right after the quarterly reports and you are afraid to admit that you did and that you might have paid too much for the stock? The other member did, but he's still trying to figure out how he's going to make a profit on the stock purchase.
This quarter doesn't look like its going to be that great, so there might not be a 15% year to year quarterly growth rate when they do their reporting for this quarter. Also, if the other post about the product announcement they plan on making are true and there isn't any other major announcements, it will probably signal a stock drop. From what it sounds like they are only planning on releasing a new iMac and a lower end Mac, but no iPhone 6. I'm hoping they announce the iPhone 6, but from the sounds of it, it will be in Sept.
1) You don't have to do anything but making irrational statements that you can't back up with nothing more than trollish anti-Apple comments doesn't help any valid criticism you may have once had.
2) Your "claims" of how long you've been using Apple's products and your "claims" of much longer than you've been using Apple product than other members here a) has absolutely no barring on your ability to make rational and/or sane comments, and 2) is as foolish and annoying as those that say, "I own every product Apple has ever made but Apple sucks. Buy Android."
My "claims"? I used a Apple II+ and it also had a C/PM card in it. I didn't much care for C/PM, but I used Visicalc and taught myself how to use it and then later worked for a company out of high school while I went to college at night and used an Apple II+ and Visicalc was the program I used. My father has also known Jobs PERSONALLY, and worked for a chip mfg that was a chip supplier to Apple for many years. So, again. What's YOUR problem?
You are really one of these people that are making it difficult to want to be associated with you. You are making false statements, getting my nerves and becoming a REAL nuisance.
Once an individual starts arguing like that, and using either the t-word or the f-word, then it's time for a block.
Once an individual starts arguing like that, and using either the t-word or the f-word, then it's time for a block.
He started it first. because he was conjuring fabrications to damage my reputation and that's slander and defamation of character. I will NOT tolerate that. He's been reported.
I know he started it first, I was talking to you. I blocked SolipsismX a long time ago.
So you don't own Apple shares. Interesting.
Not directly. Again, I'm not trying to explain this from a biased perspective. i used to when I wanted a long term high growth stock. But right now, Apple doesn't fit that mold. In a diversified portfolio, I have other stocks and mutual funds at this time and to move some of them over would not make sense at this time because I would have to sell, pay commissions, pay taxes on the profits and it's sometimes better just to leave them where they are until I can save up other money to invest. But, right now, my personal situation isn't in need of Apple's stock, but if someone came to me asking me my advice, as some have, I would tell them that if they are interested in a stock that gives decent dividends and they is turning into a stock that has some potential growth AND gives good dividends, they might take a look at Apple, but I would caution them just like anyone else about WHEN to buy. Ultimately, everyone has their own situation, aversion to risk, age levels, etc. etc. So, everyone will decide to buy/sell a stock for whatever reasons they have.
Would you want a stock analyst giving you advice that's using their own personal biases in their recommendations? I try to remove my bias towards Apple products as much as possible when analyzing the company from an investment standpoint. I've even caught myself once making the mistake of interjecting my own bias towards Apple and I forgot to really look at the numbers and in the process, I didn't catch a signal that the stock wasn't going to perform and the stock took a major drop, and I usually catch those. So, just to give you a little perspective, don't get caught up in the excitement of new products, etc because you love the company, products, etc. effect your abilities to recognize flaws in the investment. My biggest gripe is this. If Apple was consistently meeting and exceeding decent growth rates (not just one or two months) but consistently having year to year growth in the modest 15% range, and they gave proper guidance as to how Apple was moving forward to give the analysts a better solid reason to always have a "BUY" recommendation, then maybe they wouldn't have to resort to buying blocks of shares to keep the stock price up. I see these bulk purchases being used as a means to cover up the shortcomings of their ability to execute. 15% was great last quarter from the year before, but moving forward, can they repeat 15% each quarter over a year prior? The analysts don't all think they can. Plus, the biggest potential problem is relying solely on just iPhones and iPads as the cash cow. Microsoft had the same problem with Windows and Office, as these companies get bigger they have to get into new markets with new products to lessen the reliance on just iPhones and iPads for revenue. They kind of want something substantial enough to say, this is the next big thing. iWatches to me might take some of the slack that the iPods have done, but iPods shrunk to a small portion of the revenue pie. I think they are looking for something a little more substantial than iWatches to get these guys excited. They, like a lot of us, were hoping for a SmartTV, but Cook has basically said NO. is the Apple TV going to be that next big thing this year? Or is it just going to be another small enhancement that won't bring in a substantial amount of new revenue?
I think you are trying to put me down because I recognized that Apple is too expensive to buy right now and you are taking it out on me because you just bought some. Instead of listening to solid advice by looking into dollar cost averaging, dividend reinvestment and thinking more of just holding on to the stock and kind of appreciating the fact that I would try to give you probably the best most solid advice anyone could give in this situation, you try to damage my reputation. If you don't believe that the advice i gave you was to help you. Go talk to a PROFESSIONAL financial advisor and get their opinion on what to do. See if they give you better advice than I. tell them what I advice I told you and get THEIR opinion.
I'm not the type of person that's going to just be a YES MAN and just agree with you. If I think you are making a valid assessment, I'll let you know, if I think you raised an issue that I didn't see that proves your method is better, I'll let you know. But I have learned my own way of analyzing a stock/company and if I really sat down with you, it would probably take about a week of constant going back and forth to give you my full attention on this. I don't have the time to do that kind of analysis, my time is limited to spend and when you just conjure up put downs and completely take one thing I told you and twist it around to use agaist me, then all i see is a snake. I told you repeatedly certain things to look at and then you completely ignored them and the conjured up some other way of doing something and then you thought I was crazy.
I will give you the example to refresh your memory. I told you to evaluate a stock to be over or under valued, you have to look at the P/E and to see what the 12 month high/low was, but then you start comparing them to unrelated companies, then you look at 5 years ago when Apple was in hyper growth mode and I've told you repeatedly they aren't in hyper growth when they were at higher P/E ratios, since they aren't in high growth mode, their P/E won't trade in the 20's and 30's, they trade more in the teens, which is where they are. But you have to look at their lowest and highest levels from a past 12 month period to see what the high is and what the low is. When it's low, that's the best time to buy, when it's high, that's the best time to sell. You bought your shares at around the highest point in the past 12 months. And I told you that and you are trying to discredit me for buying 50 shares at what I believe to be a high point. But for some reason, you seem to think that $570 is the new low. Not yet it is. Time will tell what the new 12 month low is, but it's certainly not $570. But to help you look at ways to still make money, i gave you good advice and you never even bothered to thank me. Well, shame on me for trying to help you and shame on me for even expecting one single acknowledgement of trying to give you some good advice. So moving forward, please stop trying to attiack me first or twist around my words to suit your own level of whatever you want to call it. I'm not invested in playing that game.
I can certainly go to other sites that have better class of people and maybe i will. At least I know they don't treat people the way you've treated me. Same goes with a couple of others here.
So if you want to at least thank me for trying to help you look at Apple from a different perspective, that would go a long way, but if not, don't waste my time anymore. I've got better things to do and more appreciative people that respect my opinion and would be a lot more thankful because I don't like giving bad stock advice. I may not know everything or make an honest mistake here and there, like ALL people do, but I won't PURPOSELY try to mislead someone. That's not part of my upbringing and it's NOT part of how I do things.