Apple's iPhone 5c ate up Android while Google's Moto X flopped: why everyone was wrong

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 218
    The iPhone will continue to struggle against android until apple gives it the power to read a floppy disk
  • Reply 82 of 218
    hametahameta Posts: 79member
    asdasd wrote: »
    My eyes hurt.


    BECAUSE THE TRUTH NAILED YOU !


    1000
  • Reply 83 of 218
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,823moderator
    Some great old quotes about newspapers that apply equally well to what's reported in other mediums today:


    Early in life I had noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper.
    - George Orwell

    If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.
    - Mark Twain


    And a couple DED likely relates to:

    I became a journalist because I did not want to rely on newspapers for information.
    - Christopher Hitchens

    I think that of all the principles for journalism, the most important is to complicate simple things and simplify complicated things. At first sight, you may think something is simple, but it may conceal a great deal. However, facing a very complex thing, you should find out its essence.
    - Jin Yongquan
  • Reply 84 of 218
    I think all analysts are missing why Apple made the 5c. They made it because of the debacle in manufacturing costs for the 5 and the lack of new machines to make the 5s. We will see a 5cs this year because Apple needs a lower cost of goods to raise their profit margins back up to where they were before 2013. If Apple had continued to make 40-45% gross margins on the sales of it's products in 2013, then there still would have been record profit increases and the stock price would not have dropped so sharply from $700 a share.

    This is one case where Jony Ive cost the company big money with the ambition of his design. I think that it is very telling that the game plan was changed after the results from the iPhone 5 came in.

    Apple has been hampered by 2 profit limiting problems during the last 18 months. They had no access to the volume of high quality screens for the iPhone that they needed to match Samsung with its own manufacturing facilities. They also had a very difficult to execute design for the iPhone 5. Perhaps they missed Steve's willingness to change a weak idea, or they just made a mistake. Either way we should not miss the problems at Apple while we are recognizing the strengths or we won't know when the same problem comes back.
  • Reply 85 of 218
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

     

    Thanks, but others answered my question/comment earlier.  

  • Reply 86 of 218
    I don't see why a post about the success of the iPhone 5c needs to include a misguided rant about Google. Are you so entrenched in a war against all things Android that you can't talk about Apple without bashing Google and Android?

    Moto X got a lot of positive reviews because it brought something new to the table while other phones seems just to be another iteration of something old. You've got it totally wrong if you think reviews should mirror sales numbers.
  • Reply 87 of 218
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    I think all analysts are missing why Apple made the 5c. They made it because of the debacle in manufacturing costs for the 5 and the lack of new machines to make the 5s. We will see a 5cs this year because Apple needs a lower cost of goods to raise their profit margins back up to where they were before 2013. If Apple had continued to make 40-45% gross margins on the sales of it's products in 2013, then there still would have been record profit increases and the stock price would not have dropped so sharply from $700 a share.

    This is one case where Jony Ive cost the company big money with the ambition of his design. I think that it is very telling that the game plan was changed after the results from the iPhone 5 came in.

    Apple has been hampered by 2 profit limiting problems during the last 18 months. They had no access to the volume of high quality screens for the iPhone that they needed to match Samsung with its own manufacturing facilities. They also had a very difficult to execute design for the iPhone 5. Perhaps they missed Steve's willingness to change a weak idea, or they just made a mistake. Either way we should not miss the problems at Apple while we are recognizing the strengths or we won't know when the same problem comes back.

    I generally agree with your approach, especially about the larger screen supply for Apple's specs. Interpreting Jony Ive's 5/5s design as a mistake is a bit harsh. Ambitious, hubris, an overreach in the final analysis, maybe. We're pretty far from the inside info. I tend to think it was a production gamble that had to be tried in practice at the scale of millions to find out if it was cost effective. That's the way the big game has to be played, and it makes the design all the more desirable. You see the care, as Jony says, but you also see the risk and the gamble. That he cannot talk about, but we can see it. Same with the all-glass 4/4s. Risky as hell, but worth it.
  • Reply 88 of 218
    aderutteraderutter Posts: 597member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppeX View Post



    The main iOS failures:



    - Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.

    - Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.

    - Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.

    - Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.

    - Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.



    Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?

     

    Hmm. I reckon a large part of the run-away success of the iPhone and why we will continue to see it's ever increasing lead over it's competitors where it matters (where the money is) is because of the absence of these kind of things that most people don't want or need and everyone can do without due to system security. Also, as far as I (and many others judging by the sales numbers) am concerned the iPhone is not expensive, it is very cheap for what it gives me compared to the paltry, cheap and nasty alternatives. I guess if you think it is expensive then it's out of your league, (like a Lamborghini?). 

  • Reply 89 of 218
    http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/14/android-nearly-75-of-all-smartphones-shipped-in-q1-samsung-tops-30-mobile-sales-overall-nearly-flat-says-gartner/


    Stating real hard facts is how you go about an argument. Your ridiculous claims, void of facts, are trivial at best. And if 69% were new to iPhone and 60% came from Android...... You my friend, need to retake grade school math.
  • Reply 90 of 218
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppeX View Post



    The main iOS failures:



    - Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.

    - Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.

    - Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.

    - Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.

    - Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.



    Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?

     

    One of the most replied-to posts ever.

     

    As I recall, Apple was criticized for introducing USB.  And SCSI and FireWire and non-VGA and …  well, you get the idea.

     

    Take it to the cloud, dude.

     

    Now if someone would make a USB card or paper tape reader, or a USB 9-track tape drive, I would feel differently about keeping USB.  (maybe the do)  I have some old momentos I'd like to look back thru after I retire in a couple years.

  • Reply 91 of 218

    Nice article, with plenty of documented examples and links supporting your case. I agree with your evaluation of the media's general disdain of Apple and its business prospects. These people are probably mostly retreads from the old Microsoft shills and apologists, so I reckon its somewhat to be expected. The most telling thing is your point: "Cook almost doesn't seem to be aware of the tech meme that iPhone 5c is a terrible failure that he and everyone else at Apple should be ashamed to have ever released to the public." That old George Herbert quote about living well is the best revenge would seem to be Tim Cook's response.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

     

    Dilger, why are you obsessed with perpetuating this narrative that analysts and the media have it in for Apple? Every 'editorial' is crammed with 'evidence' that the media downplays Apple's successes and accentuates its failures, and that the opposite is true for Android manufacturers.

     

    Frankly you seem to have something approaching an obsession with Google and Android OEMs. 


     

    Do you find anything specifically wrong with his facts and evidence, or are you simply unhappy that he dares to point out that your emperor has no clothes. You have obviously landed at an Apple-centric site, and you seem to know his writing background; don't read it if you don't like his work.

  • Reply 92 of 218
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    flaneur wrote: »
    I generally agree with your approach, especially about the larger screen supply for Apple's specs. Interpreting Jony Ive's 5/5s design as a mistake is a bit harsh. Ambitious, hubris, an overreach in the final analysis, maybe. We're pretty far from the inside info. I tend to think it was a production gamble that had to be tried in practice at the scale of millions to find out if it was cost effective. That's the way the big game has to be played, and it makes the design all the more desirable. You see the care, as Jony says, but you also see the risk and the gamble. That he cannot talk about, but we can see it. Same with the all-glass 4/4s. Risky as hell, but worth it.
    Yes we're VERY far from the inside info. Personally I'm sick of everyone and their mother giving us their theories on why Apple produced the 5C. Or why the iPad is in a so-called slump and what Apple needs to do about it.
  • Reply 93 of 218
    I am very much an Apple fan but I have to say that factoring in the price, the larger screen, the FM radio and the Google apps and features, the $40 Android smart phone I just purchased from Amazon is a better phone than the Apple 5c. For one thing, you could carry this Android phone around and never worry about it getting damaged, lost or stolen. Neither it or the iPhone 5c can resist water damage but at least with the Android phone I am only out $40 in the worst case. The 5c will cost you $550 to replace since Apple Care does not cover water damage.
  • Reply 94 of 218

    Don't go read the Macalope then! www.macalope.com

    Dilger does this maybe once a week, the Macalope does this daily. He can do this daily because there is so much crap written about Apple in the media, and there has been since time immemorial, well at least the 80s.

  • Reply 95 of 218
    thx1138thx1138 Posts: 13member
    Quote:


    Besides this, iOS is running laps around Windows/Android - with an almost arrogant elegance.


     

    Well-said sir, well-said.

     

    dmz

  • Reply 96 of 218
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    I think all analysts are missing why Apple made the 5c. They made it because of the debacle in manufacturing costs for the 5 and the lack of new machines to make the 5s. We will see a 5cs this year because Apple needs a lower cost of goods to raise their profit margins back up to where they were before 2013. If Apple had continued to make 40-45% gross margins on the sales of it's products in 2013, then there still would have been record profit increases and the stock price would not have dropped so sharply from $700 a share.

    This is one case where Jony Ive cost the company big money with the ambition of his design. I think that it is very telling that the game plan was changed after the results from the iPhone 5 came in.

    Apple has been hampered by 2 profit limiting problems during the last 18 months. They had no access to the volume of high quality screens for the iPhone that they needed to match Samsung with its own manufacturing facilities. They also had a very difficult to execute design for the iPhone 5. Perhaps they missed Steve's willingness to change a weak idea, or they just made a mistake. Either way we should not miss the problems at Apple while we are recognizing the strengths or we won't know when the same problem comes back.
    Apple had one quarter which was a complete outlier where their gross margins were above 40%. Why do people think Apple needs to get back to those ridiculous margins that clearly aren't the norm? I think part of the reason for the stock drop was/is Wall Street's concern over growth and their impatience around new products. Wall Street considers Apple a hit factory and they want new hits. Then they see Samsung throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks and think Apple is doomed because they're not doing the same. Samsung has done a great con job getting people to believe that quantity equals innovation. Google has done the same releasing information on prototype crap that isn't actually shipping but it makes people believe that they're doing something while Apple is not, because Apple does their business in private.
  • Reply 97 of 218
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    aderutter wrote: »
    Hmm. I reckon a large part of the run-away success of the iPhone and why we will continue to see it's ever increasing lead over it's competitors where it matters (where the money is) is because of the absence of these kind of things that most people don't want or need and everyone can do without due to system security. Also, as far as I (and many others judging by the sales numbers) am concerned the iPhone is not expensive, it is very cheap for what it gives me compared to the paltry, cheap and nasty alternatives. I guess if you think it is expensive then it's out of your league, (like a Lamborghini?). 

    Slightly off-topic alert: An iPhone related story from a Denver TV station has done an expose on the lengths schemers will go to to get their hands on unlocked iPhones. Yup, they're wanted that badly. I'm curious tho how they qualified for the credit?
    http://www.9news.com/story/news/investigations/2014/04/24/9wtk-iphone-scheme/8093499/
  • Reply 98 of 218
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Apple's 90s failures did not merely pile up, but pile up "like rotting carcasses in the sun."

    Poetry!
  • Reply 99 of 218
    Usually, when I see articles criticizing Apple's marketing, their products or financials, I always pause and say to myself that it can't be the whole story! What's missing? Where is the truth? This isn't just due to some unquestioning loyalty to the company, often pegged a fanboy or isheep. It's none of that! It comes from a trust built up from years of this company proving itself over and over to be unique, innovative and delivering products that are appealing time and again. Giving me what I want with a consistency unmatched by the others! They've worked hard to earn that trust! I'm now at the point where I'm confident that they'll do right by me and so far, they have. Your articles tell the whole story, fill in what's missing, and reveal the truth. I've developed a similar trust in your reporting that I have for Apple. Well done!
  • Reply 100 of 218
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,241member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Macnewsjunkie View Post



    I think all analysts are missing why Apple made the 5c. They made it because of the debacle in manufacturing costs for the 5 and the lack of new machines to make the 5s. We will see a 5cs this year because Apple needs a lower cost of goods to raise their profit margins back up to where they were before 2013. If Apple had continued to make 40-45% gross margins on the sales of it's products in 2013, then there still would have been record profit increases and the stock price would not have dropped so sharply from $700 a share.



    This is one case where Jony Ive cost the company big money with the ambition of his design. I think that it is very telling that the game plan was changed after the results from the iPhone 5 came in.



    Apple has been hampered by 2 profit limiting problems during the last 18 months. They had no access to the volume of high quality screens for the iPhone that they needed to match Samsung with its own manufacturing facilities. They also had a very difficult to execute design for the iPhone 5. Perhaps they missed Steve's willingness to change a weak idea, or they just made a mistake. Either way we should not miss the problems at Apple while we are recognizing the strengths or we won't know when the same problem comes back.

    I think you misread this.

     

    Sure, Apple paid heavily for the initial production of the 5, but by the time the 5s came out, production was running smoothly, shortages of screens aside. In essence, Apple's difficult learning curve on the 5 has paid off in spades; no competitor can even come close to the build or quantities of the 5 and 5s so sales as a prestige product are assured. There are no iPhone 5s form factor competitors at all.

     

    If in fact the 6 builds on the existing design of the 5, then it is evidence that the design has been hugely successful, and the margins Apple made on the iPhone are proof that the manufacturing costs were reined in.

     

    The 5c I agree was a design to cost reduce the iPhone based on a different manufacturing paradigm and reduce the pressure on 5s production. I don't think the cost reduction happened.

     

    Some say the 5c is a failure, but I see it as a iPhone build that needs some marketing to educate the customers, as well as touch and a 64bit processor to give it state of the art specs, albeit at a lesser level than the current 5s and the upcoming 6.

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