Apple's iPad business isn't collapsing, but the rest of the tablet industry sure is

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  • Reply 101 of 167
    plovellplovell Posts: 826member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post

     

    When a product is shipped, does its manufacturer get paid by whoever they're shipping it to? If a company ships 50 million tablets, do they get the revenue when it's shipped, or only when the front-end shop sells the tablet?


    As they say, "it depends". Seriously though, it depends upon the contract. In some cases, payment is due when the product is shipped, in others it's when it leaves the distributor for the front-end shop. And there are other variations.

     

    Apple's statistics report actual sales numbers when they have them, such as sales at Apple Stores or through the on-line store. I have heard (don't know for sure) that product held by distributors (e.g. Ingram) isn't counted until it ships from them to the front-end shop. 

     

    Other manufacturers report numbers differently. Samsung, for example, reports shipments and not sales.

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  • Reply 102 of 167
    alai1alai1 Posts: 1member
    I wonder how have phablets influenced the market? with Samsung marketing a 6.3" phone (besides its 5.95" Note 3), and second-tier (mostly Chinese) manufacturers flooding 5.5-6.5 phones at low prices, where is this information in the analysis?
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  • Reply 103 of 167
    arlorarlor Posts: 533member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by plovell View Post

     

    Apple's statistics report actual sales numbers when they have them, such as sales at Apple Stores or through the on-line store. I have heard (don't know for sure) that product held by distributors (e.g. Ingram) isn't counted until it ships from them to the front-end shop. 

     

    Other manufacturers report numbers differently. Samsung, for example, reports shipments and not sales.


     

    To be fair, Samsung can't do what Apple does with regard to the Apple Store and Apple's online operation, since Samsung doesn't have a substantial self-owned retail presence. Apple largely reports numbers shipped when it comes to the non-Apple retail channel, like Samsung. 

     

    I suspect that rumors of Samsung shipping tens of millions of products that aren't sold are exaggerated. Samsung's a public company whose records are open to investors' inspection; shareholders would be going after them if there were anything fishy going on.

     

    Unless we find a few million S5s buried in a landfill in New Mexico, that is. 

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  • Reply 104 of 167
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,928member
    arlor wrote: »
    To be fair, Samsung can't do what Apple does with regard to the Apple Store and Apple's online operation, since Samsung doesn't have a substantial self-owned retail presence. Apple largely reports numbers shipped when it comes to the non-Apple retail channel, like Samsung. 

    I suspect that rumors of Samsung shipping tens of millions of products that aren't sold are exaggerated. Samsung's a public company whose records are open to investors' inspection; shareholders would be going after them if there were anything fishy going on.

    Unless we find a few million S5s buried in a landfill in New Mexico, that is. 

    Of course it's exaggerated but with Sammy, you never know since they've lied before.
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  • Reply 105 of 167
    benjamin frostbenjamin frost Posts: 7,203member
    1000

    That's why I admire people who have no mobile phone. They live in the present.
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  • Reply 106 of 167
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    That's why I admire people who have no mobile phone. They live in the present.

    I've linked this before -- but, it's always worth reminding ourselves.



    [VIDEO]


    The problem with the "camera you have with you" is that you always have it with you!
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  • Reply 107 of 167
    Another excellent DED analysis, which unlike IDC's reports is backed by actual facts.
    Maybe IDC should be renamed IDK...
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  • Reply 108 of 167
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    Decided to check out Appleinsider to see if anything is new. Same o'l, same o'l, Samsung bashing, nothing is better than an iPad, Apple is our lord and savior in a sea of evil companies trying to copy what they have achieved.


     

    In what what is Samsung being "bashed"? Or is that just a "sympathy for the devil" appeal to pity Samsung as a misunderstood corporation being persecuted by any effort to research the truth of what is actually happening in the world? Are you a fan of IDC/Gartner, or what exactly has you so upset that you have to hate on AppleInsider for offering you the truth?

     

    The subject of the article here is the quite obvious manipulation of estimated sales data, with a clear agenda. The article isn't about anyone copying Apple's products because they don't have original ideas that are better. It's a factual observation that everything being written about the sales of tablets--the market where people are making choices just like you, but just not like your personal opinion--is wrong.

     

    Your favorable opinion about Kindle Fire is not under attack. But you can't really have an "opinion" about what the tens of millions of tablet buyers are doing, because the facts aren't swayed by your personal opinion.

     

    If Amazon were selling meaningful numbers of tablets, it would be announcing those sales, not hiding behind BS like the Fire's "relative rank" in Amazon sales, something it also shared with the Zune, Xoom and other huge failures.

     

    It's also quite embarrassing for you comment on the article without having even read it. And if you did read it, and all you can offer is contempt for the truth and a quick turnaround segue into how great Amazon's failing, low-priced iPad copy is and how much contempt you carry for Apple, well you've just proven that the problem with "bias" isn't AppleInsider, but in your own noggin, where the truth is contemptible and the Apple logo makes you defensive and angry. 

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  • Reply 109 of 167
    glop007glop007 Posts: 2member
    To DED - should IDC (and the other so called "research" firms) be referred to S.E.C., D.O.J., F.B.I or any other regulatory agency for their willful misleading of the public and subscribers? What they are doing is essentially stock manipulation and fraud to consumers. Why should they continue to get away with this type of manipulative reporting and not get investigated/punished.
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  • Reply 110 of 167
    pscooter63pscooter63 Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

    The only place that I remember seeing any windows devices was when I was watching a TV show called the Dome a while ago, and those were obviously paid product placements, because it made the whole show seem fake. A mysterious dome shaped force field floating over the town seemed far more realistic than the ridiculous suggestion that everybody in town was using various windows devices.


     

    Somewhat OT...

     

    Yeah, "Under The Dome" is returning for a second season.  I didn't watch more than an episode  or two, either, but I wonder... will the town continue to sport last year's (failed) MS products, as the storyline dictates?

     

    For that matter, the premise that folks are trapped in a slow-death circumstance (per the book), and only have MS products to rely upon doesn't really encourage me to use MS products.  In fact, subliminally, it's the opposite.

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  • Reply 111 of 167
    benjamin frostbenjamin frost Posts: 7,203member
    frood wrote: »
    A good article.  I think 'collapsing' is a strong word to use for either Apple or Samsung.  The tablet industry is going to head toward reduced sales and eventually flatten out at a decent baseline level.  Its not like there is going to stop being a demand for them- its just not going to be the same demand as during the first few years where many people just didn't have one.

    Wanting tablets to be included with PC's would be more believable if the view was consistent.  Adding tablets to be included with PC's would allow the favorable headline of 'PC sales are absolutely booming, largely due to the iPad and other tablet PC's gaining substantial market share'
    Unfortunately that would also mean you have to include those other PC's in all the data that wouldn't be as 'Pro-Apple'   Web usage statistics would now get dramatically skewed less pro-Apple as the majority is still done on 'traditional' PC's.  Dominant share of web sales?  Not really, as I think only between 17-30% of sales was done on 'tablets.'  So the headline would have to change from "Apple gets 80% of tablet online shopping" to "Apple gets 15% of online sales"

    If IDC is switching views back and forth to whichever side has a negative Apple outlook that is pretty dubious.  Daniel wanting to flip his definition back and forth on numerous occasions is at least understandable since he's supposed to just pick whichever selectively skews things most pro-Apple on any given article.  At a minimum it is entertaining...  Seeing a huge rant article about why tablets need to be included as PC's one month, followed by headlines seperating data from the two in regards to online sales, followed by a huge rant claiming the data is biased because they are including exactly the data in the way DED originally suggested.....

    I don't even believe they included all PC's, laptops, or even netbooks- only ones that are capable of being stand alone tablets?  The T-100 is probably a poor choice for the author's argument.  It is sold as a tablet.  They keyboard is sold as an optional accessory.

    So you start by complementing DED for a 'good article' and then degenerate into criticising him repeatedly for ranting.

    Nothing like engaging in stereotypical trollish behaviour. You might just as well have written 'I like Apple but' to save us the effort of reading any further.
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  • Reply 112 of 167
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tjwolf View Post



    If running Office (or most Android apps for that matter) is a primary decider for you, why are you even looking at the Amazon Fire? Hardware wise that tablet may be the bomb, but there isn't much software and the version of Android Amazon uses is unrecognizable from the original and much more restricted.

    I agree, it really depends on the intended usage. I have an iPad mini retina that is an absolute beast, display quality and performance are amazing. I recently purchased a kindle fire HDX so that I can do my heavy reading on. I have just enough apps on it to give me a break and catch up on news and such while reading or watching TV. The performance is impressive, but overall the screen (even with higher PPI etc) just is not as nice and clear, the apps are very limited and the OS (based on Jelly Bean) while more stable than the previous kindle I had is still not as smooth or intuitive as IOS. So it is an expensive companion to help me save batter and space on my iPad which I use for work.  But an iPad replacement it is not. 

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  • Reply 113 of 167
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

     

    I would defiantly pull the trigger on the Kindle HDX. I have the little one, the 7" model and I absolutely love it. 200 dollars for a tablet that contains a Qualcomm 800, 2GB RAM, 1080P and Miracast (wireless desktop, works extremely well too) is pretty amazing. Even though people complain about the lack of Google Play Store, I personally don't miss it as I am chugging along just fine using MoboGenie as my app store, Pro Launcher 2 to replace FIreOS's UI and SideBar for smoother multitasking.

     

    ....

    an absolute pleasure to read eBooks (install Mantano Reader, best eBook reader on the market),

     

    ...

    of course watching movies using VLC to stream from my 1TB Google Drive using ES File Explorer,

    ....

     

    . There are of course many more apps but I just wanted to list the stuff that I use the most on my Kindle.

     

    ....

    An iPad Mini would have also been nice and very portable but I gave mine to my daughter and the price for a new one was just a little on the high end for what I would use it for, the Kindle just made more sense. Anywhooo I highly recommend the Kindle HDX.


    Relic,

    I got to hand it to you for "sticking it to Amazon (the man)" by taking advantage of their business model.  Buying their HW at or below cost, then turning around and gutting their plans to recoup costs by hacking it to not use any Amazon content or services.  Good thing everyone is not as clever as you or Amazon's stock would plummet. 

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  • Reply 114 of 167
    euphoniouseuphonious Posts: 303member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

     well you've just proven that the problem with "bias" isn't AppleInsider, but in your own noggin, where the truth is contemptible and the Apple logo makes you defensive and angry. 


     

    Just to clarify - are you suggesting that AppleInsider is not biased?

     

    If so, that is possibly the most risible statement I've heard in my whole life.

     

    Amusing that you mention people getting defensive and angry, when the mildest criticism of Apple is enough to get plenty of the regulars here foaming at the mouth.

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  • Reply 115 of 167
    benjamin frostbenjamin frost Posts: 7,203member
    ]

    euphonious wrote: »
    Just to clarify - are you suggesting that AppleInsider is not biased?

    If so, that is possibly the most risible statement I've heard in my whole life.

    Amusing that you mention people getting defensive and angry, when the mildest criticism of Apple is enough to get plenty of the regulars here foaming at the mouth.

    No, Apple Insider is not biased. Biased means unfairly prejudiced. You, on the other hand, have a bee in your bonnet.
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  • Reply 116 of 167
    tjwolftjwolf Posts: 424member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snova View Post

     

    Relic,

    I got to hand it to you for "sticking it Amazon" by taking advantage of their business model.  Buying their HW at or below cost, then turning around and gutting their plans to recoup costs by hacking it to not use any Amazon content or services.  Good thing everyone is not as clever as you or Amazon's stock would plummet. 


     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tookieman2013 View Post

     

    I agree, it really depends on the intended usage. I have an iPad mini retina that is an absolute beast, display quality and performance are amazing. I recently purchased a kindle fire HDX so that I can do my heavy reading on. I have just enough apps on it to give me a break and catch up on news and such while reading or watching TV. The performance is impressive, but overall the screen (even with higher PPI etc) just is not as nice and clear, the apps are very limited and the OS (based on Jelly Bean) while more stable than the previous kindle I had is still not as smooth or intuitive as IOS. So it is an expensive companion to help me save batter and space on my iPad which I use for work.  But an iPad replacement it is not. 


     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tookieman2013 View Post

     
    Quote:


    I agree, it really depends on the intended usage. I have an iPad mini retina that is an absolute beast, display quality and performance are amazing. I recently purchased a kindle fire HDX so that I can do my heavy reading on

     



    That is a curious decision - if optimal reading is your goal, why would you get the Fire HDX instead of one of the e-ink based Kindle devices?  The HDX has no advantage (slightly bigger screen) over your iPad mini.


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  • Reply 117 of 167
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tjwolf View Post

     

     

     


    Not so much optimal reading, I wanted and e reader that also allowed me to have apps and the ability to surf the net or view email when I was taking a break from reading. The kindle gets the abuse and battery burn during the weekend and the iPad does the heavy lifting during the week.   

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  • Reply 118 of 167
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alai1 View Post



    I wonder how have phablets influenced the market? with Samsung marketing a 6.3" phone (besides its 5.95" Note 3), and second-tier (mostly Chinese) manufacturers flooding 5.5-6.5 phones at low prices, where is this information in the analysis?

     

    "phablets" and anything else with a mobile network capable of placing phone calls, are categorized as "smartphones."

     

    There is no missing number of smartphones. If anything, they are more over-reported than tablets.

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  • Reply 119 of 167
    tjwolftjwolf Posts: 424member
    Quote:


    Not so much optimal reading, I wanted and e reader that also allowed me to have apps and the ability to surf the net or view email when I was taking a break from reading. The kindle gets the abuse and battery burn during the weekend and the iPad does the heavy lifting during the week.


     

     

    Then why not buy another iPad  - and have more apps to run?  Makes no sense to me.

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  • Reply 120 of 167
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

     well you've just proven that the problem with "bias" isn't AppleInsider, but in your own noggin, where the truth is contemptible and the Apple logo makes you defensive and angry. 


     

    Just to clarify - are you suggesting that AppleInsider is not biased?

     

    If so, that is possibly the most risible statement I've heard in my whole life.

     

    Amusing that you mention people getting defensive and angry, when the mildest criticism of Apple is enough to get plenty of the regulars here foaming at the mouth.


    Euphonious,

     

    please don't take Daniels comments out of context.  Lets look at the whole paragraph including the TOPIC sentence. 

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

     

     

    It's also quite embarrassing for you comment on the article without having even read it. And if you did read it, and all you can offer is contempt for the truth and a quick turnaround segue into how great Amazon's failing, low-priced iPad copy is and how much contempt you carry for Apple, well you've just proven that the problem with "bias" isn't AppleInsider, but in your own noggin, where the truth is contemptible and the Apple logo makes you defensive and angry. 


     

    regarding foaming at the month.  Any praise for Apple makes people come here foaming at the mouth with evidence they didn't even bother to read the whole article.  This is the whole point of what Daniel said. Please don't remove that part. That was the whole point of the paragraph and why that was stated first. 

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