Apple's iPad business isn't collapsing, but the rest of the tablet industry sure is

1234568

Comments

  • Reply 141 of 167
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    IDC, and probably the others you mentioned, earns the vast majority of their revenue from individual and institutional investors buying/subscribing to their research reports. They're not public relations firms. If their data is truly as inaccurate and intentionally slanted to make Apple look bad as DED would like you to be believe then investors wouldn't spend thousands of dollars buying the research would they? That would make no sense since it would be useless.
    http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Interactive_Data_(IDC)

    This could be proven if the other guys release actual numbers. But they don't because these numbers make them look better.
    frood wrote: »
    It is a good article, and fairly accurate.  I think saying the tablet market is 'collapsing' is overly dramatic and that Daniel has it fairly right, Apple is flat to falling, and Samsung is falling faster.  Samsung falling faster isn't necessarily good news for Apple as the tablet market future doesn't look like it is going to be gaining for either side.

    I do criticize his 'media is biased against Apple' argument- mostly based on what I wrote.  A few months ago he was ranting against them not including iPad sales in PC's due to an anti-Apple bias.  Now they include them and he rants against that as anti-Apple bias.  I would have zero argument with it if he had a consistent argument (whether or not I agreed with that argument).  As long he continues to change his view from article to article depending on which method is more pro-Apple I think he deserves a little chiding.  If IDC is doing the same thing (in the opposite direction) they deserve more than a little chiding.

    No they include 2-in-1 Windows PCs and "others" as tablets after they exclude tablet PCs and "others" in the beginning. They are arbitrarily defining the market.

    This is why there is no "tablet" market but a PC market.
  • Reply 142 of 167
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    To Dick Applebaum:

    I get the feeling that you feel very sympathetic to Relic due to her illness, and that is overriding your judgement. Her posts tend to be full of character and can be amusing. And I'm inclined to give her a free pass due to her predicament. But that doesn't excuse the sweeping statements that she made, which were ill-considered.

    As for your comments about Daniel Eran Dilger: I don't know if you've got some kind of grudge against him, but what you say doesn't ring true at all. His writing is universally intelligent, well-researched and shows a mind-boggling attention to detail and awareness of history, which I haven't come across with any other writer on the web. Many writers write in what they think is an 'intelligent' style, but those writers tend to end up resorting to lots of grand generalisations using fancy words without siting sources. They chuck a graph or two in to make it seem like they've done their homework, then wander off into intelli-speak land. Dilger, on the other hand, is a pleasure to read for two reasons: firstly, for all the length of his articles, his writing is actually concise, yet packed with detail. Secondly, he has developed a pleasantly distinctive character to his writing—sometimes more flamboyant, sometimes less so, but always containing a certain 'je ne sais quoi.'

    In short, he is a fine writer, which may be why he has a regular column at AI.

    I often enjoy and normally agree with your posts, so I was surprised not to.

    I don't mean this to be a Jihad against DED -- rather, I generally agreed with the editorial. I still have not commented on the article, but I think @Relic is being unfairly attacked and demeaned by @Corrections, DED's alter ego.

    Tomorrow, I will spend some time, and PM you some.examples of DED articles and @Corrections posts that illustrate what I think is wrong.

    It's a matter of trust, free speech and fairness -- if I have a grudge, it is against the way people and facts are, sometimes, treated.
  • Reply 143 of 167
    michael scripmichael scrip Posts: 1,916member
    alfiejr wrote: »
    it's clear to anyone with a brain that IDC, Gartner, and SA "cook the books" to make their paying clients look good and badmouth Apple at every opportunity since they know Apple will never pay their bribes. just like it is clear that Samsung constantly lies about its sales figures.

    These analysts get paid to create fictional reports that make Apple look bad and the other guys look good.

    The problem is... the other guys still aren't doing very well. And these reports won't change that.

    So... how long can the analysts keep doing this?

    It would be like a student showing his parents fake report cards all year with good grades... but he's still gonna flunk at the end of the year. At some point... the lies catch up to you.

    The analysts are cooking the books to make somebody happy.... but it's not really doing anything.
  • Reply 144 of 167
    suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,819member
    snova wrote: »
    regarding foaming at the month.  Any praise for Apple makes people come here foaming at the mouth with evidence they didn't even bother to read the whole article.

    Yes, there is definitely an obsession with the Apple fans who hang out here. I get the impression they come to entertain themselves by provoking.
  • Reply 145 of 167
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



    Hey, I, too compliment DED when he writes a good article, and criticize him when he rants, elides or misrepresents facts, cites himself, etc.

    Dick Applebaum,

    I think its important to keep perspective of our roles as posters to AI, the authors, and ultimately the purpose of this website.  AI exists to make money. It does this from mostly from selling ad real estate. The more eyes and time people spend reading the website, the more AI makes.  To get more eyes here, AI hires people draw more Apple fans here (like myself) on a daily basis. Ironically, because it is so active it also attracts trolls like honey. These people I have found want to ride on the coat tails of the authors of this website and get a rise out of picking fights with Apple fan.  Same reason kids act out when they are young.  

     

    Anyhow, lets for a moment think about what the owners of AI want when they go looking for a writer to post articles here and lets review how they have faired by hiring Daniel.   If you look at simply the post count on each article on this site, we will discover that Daniel's articles consistently generate the most posts and I assume the most hits.   Given his popularity,  he appears to me to be a one man show and is for all practically purpose drawing the most attention and thus revenue for this website.  I mean no offense to other author's here.  Others here repost the SAME news events as other web site.  However, Daniel generate original articles and for the most part is unique to AI.  Daniel is gaining readership and quoted by other websites.  Again, no disrespect to AI owners, but I bet given the right situation I bet Daniel could easily start his own website and most of readership here will follow him.

     

    What influence we have on this as poster over what Daniel posts when we disagree? Is it what we say here in the forums? Does AI care if you criticize Daniel and what your opinion is?  I don't think so, as long as the fans stay and heck maybe even the less offensive trolls. As long as they generating ad hits, no cares?  I see no point in criticizing him in a negative way. Not only is it disrespectful to him as an Author and the reason you are reading his editortial , but its also effectively pointless in trying to cause a change in what he writes and how he writes.  He is a passionate guy and backs up his editorial with references to make them compelling. This is the draw.  If people really wanted to change his style and what he says, a more practical tactic should be employed.   Its actually pretty simple.   How you ask?  Stop coming and stop paying attention.

     

    Also, I mean no offense and disrespect to you, but frankly it seems ridiculous that you have blocked him in the forums and are encourage others to follow your lead. Considering that for the most part it is obvious that you come here to read his articles.  It makes no sense to block him in the forums but yet read his articles. Why not block his articles too? In other words, stop reading them and stop posting in the comments section of each one to draw more attention?  

     

    I mean you no offense. I'm just trying to keep it real and set your expectations accordingly.   We are all guests here. It's not our house. It not our business either(pun intended).   Posting to the forums at AI is a privilege, not a right.  Give it some thought. If you have something positive to say about Daniels posts, feel free.  If you got something negative and want to punish him. Stop posting and don't read what he writes.   It seem counterproductive to go after what he  writes by posting negative remarks about him or this website.   

  • Reply 146 of 167
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snova View Post



    regarding foaming at the month.  Any praise for Apple makes people come here foaming at the mouth with evidence they didn't even bother to read the whole article.




    Yes, there is definitely an obsession with the Apple fans who hang out here. I get the impression they come to entertain themselves by provoking.

    as I stated in my post #133, its not hard to figure out why trolls come.  Same reason kids act out.  They want to be heard and feel like people care about what they have to say and that they exist.

  • Reply 147 of 167
    dabedabe Posts: 99member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





    I don't mean this to be a Jihad against DED -- rather, I generally agreed with the editorial. I still have not commented on the article, but I think @Relic is being unfairly attacked and demeaned by @Corrections, DED's alter ego.



    Tomorrow, I will spend some time, and PM you some.examples of DED articles and @Corrections posts that illustrate what I think is wrong.



    It's a matter of trust, free speech and fairness -- if I have a grudge, it is against the way people and facts are, sometimes, treated.

     

    Rather than admit that your knee-jerk response was unfair to the author in this specific situation, you'd like to illustrate that a basis for the response can be found in the author's past behavior.

  • Reply 148 of 167
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    snova wrote: »
    Hey, I, too compliment DED when he writes a good article, and criticize him when he rants, elides or misrepresents facts, cites himself, etc.
    Dick Applebaum,
    I think its important to keep perspective of our roles as posters to AI, the authors, and ultimately the purpose of this website.  AI exists to make money. It does this from mostly from selling ad real estate. The more eyes and time people spend reading the website, the more AI makes.  To get more eyes here, AI hires people draw more Apple fans here (like myself) on a daily basis. Ironically, because it is so active it also attracts trolls like honey. These people I have found want to ride on the coat tails of the authors of this website and get a rise out of picking fights with Apple fan.  Same reason kids act out when they are young.  

    Anyhow, lets for a moment think about what the owners of AI want when they go looking for a writer to post articles here and lets review how they have faired by hiring Daniel.   If you look at simply the post count on each article on this site, we will discover that Daniel's articles consistently generate the most posts and I assume the most hits.   Given his popularity,  he appears to me to be a one man show and is for all practically purpose drawing the most attention and thus revenue for this website.  I mean no offense to other author's here.  Others here repost the SAME news events as other web site.  However, Daniel generate original articles and for the most part is unique to AI.  Daniel is gaining readership and quoted by other websites.  Again, no disrespect to AI owners, but I bet given the right situation I bet Daniel could easily start his own website and most of readership here will follow him.

    What influence we have on this as poster over what Daniel posts when we disagree? Is it what we say here in the forums? Does AI care if you criticize Daniel and what your opinion is?  I don't think so, as long as the fans stay and heck maybe even the less offensive trolls. As long as they generating ad hits, no cares?  I see no point in criticizing him in a negative way. Not only is it disrespectful to him as an Author and the reason you are reading his editortial , but its also effectively pointless in trying to cause a change in what he writes and how he writes.  He is a passionate guy and backs up his editorial with references to make them compelling. This is the draw.  If people really wanted to change his style and what he says, a more practical tactic should be employed.   Its actually pretty simple.   How you ask?  Stop coming and stop paying attention.

    Also, I mean no offense and disrespect to you, but frankly it seems ridiculous that you have blocked him in the forums and are encourage others to follow your lead. Considering that for the most part it is obvious that you come here to read his articles.  It makes no sense to block him in the forums but yet read his articles. Why not block his articles too? In other words, stop reading them and stop posting in the comments section of each one to draw more attention?  

    I mean you no offense. I'm just trying to keep it real and set your expectations accordingly.   We are all guests here. It's not our house. It not our business either(pun intended).   Posting to the forums at AI is a privilege, not a right.  Give it some thought. If you have something positive to say about Daniels posts, feel free.  If you got something negative and want to punish him. Stop posting and don't read what he writes.   It seem counterproductive to go after what he  writes by posting negative remarks about him or this website.   

    I understand and agree with most of what you say. I've been around since before there was an Internet – and understand that as it evolves, the rules change.

    At some point, when the, value of the advertising exceeds the value of the content -- then worth of a site like AI becomes of little value to people like me ... Sad, really -- but, that's evolution.
  • Reply 149 of 167
    ash471ash471 Posts: 705member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post





    After many years of reading on this site, I'm pretty sure that you believe any innovation that hasn't come from Apple is a lost cause.



    Sadly, you might actually be correct.



    I'm hoping you're wrong. image

    You have been reading AI for many years and just joined last month?  possible....but not likely.  

  • Reply 150 of 167
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



    I understand and agree with most of what you say. I've been around since before there was an Internet – and understand that as it evolves, the rules change.



    At some point, when the, value of the advertising exceeds the value of the content -- then worth of a site like AI becomes of little value to people like me ... Sad, really -- but, that's evolution.

    Dick Applebaum,

    glad we are aligned.  Its not just internet websites. I laugh when people complain about having 1000 channels and there is nothing good to watch.   The content out there is just plain insulting to people's intelligence, IMHO.   Yet, they keep watching and do nothing about it.   Networks keep racking in the money and keep getting bigger.    That's reality unfortunately of our society.   Oh well. Not my problem.  I just tune out and read a book instead of forcing myself to be subjected to content which just plain mindless crap.

     

    When and if that happens here, I will be gone.  I really don't care for anyone to know why.  If they care, they can look at the web statistics and hire someone to figure out why readership has dropped.  Not my problem and not something I can control to any great extent.

     

    So far, for me Daniel's articles are unique and entertaining. It's good to find a writer that  has some balls, writes about what he is passionate about, and stays true to himself.   He is a true Apple fan and belongs here for other of the same mindset.

  • Reply 151 of 167
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    snova wrote: »
    I understand and agree with most of what you say. I've been around since before there was an Internet – and understand that as it evolves, the rules change.


    At some point, when the, value of the advertising exceeds the value of the content -- then worth of a site like AI becomes of little value to people like me ... Sad, really -- but, that's evolution.
    Dick Applebaum,
    glad we are aligned.  Its not just internet websites. I laugh when people complain about having 1000 channels and there is nothing good to watch.   The content out there is just plain insulting to people's intelligence, IMHO.   Yet, they keep watching and do nothing about it.   Networks keep racking in the money and keep getting bigger.    That's reality unfortunately of our society.   Oh well. Not my problem.  I just tune out and read a book instead of forcing myself to be subjected to content which just plain mindless crap.

    When and if that happens here, I will be gone.  I really don't care for anyone to know why.  If they care, they can look at the web statistics and hire someone to figure out why readership has dropped.  Not my problem and not something I can control to any great extent.

    So far, for me Daniel's articles are unique and entertaining. It's good to find a writer that  has some balls, writes about what he is passionate about, and stays true to himself.   He is a true Apple fan and belongs here for other of the same mindset.
    m

    @snova

    You said it better than I can... I am a bit further down the road, but we agree on our goal/destination.
  • Reply 152 of 167
    arlorarlor Posts: 532member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snova View Post

     

    as I stated in my post #133, its not hard to figure out why trolls come.  Same reason kids act out.  They want to be heard and feel like people care about what they have to say and that they exist.


     

    I doubt AI's management minds. The trolls keep people clicking and posting. If the site didn't have trolls to keep people energized about visiting over and over, they'd have to create them.

  • Reply 153 of 167
    ash471 wrote: »
    You have been reading AI for many years and just joined last month?  possible....but not likely.  

    Since about 2010 when I purchased my first iPad and wanted to find out a little more about Apple.

    It's amazing how much I can read without "joining" a site.

    I also check out 9to5 and macrumors on a regular basis and I haven't registered on those sites. I never had a problem reading on those sites without registering. Not sure why that's so odd to you.
  • Reply 154 of 167
    It should be noted that declining unit sales is no indication of the loss of a competitive edge in the industry. There is a difference between declining appeal and market saturation (just think of the total units it has sold since the original release in 2010, even domestically, and by extension how many of those units remain in active use).

    Apple's marketing materials, loyal user collective, and incremental updates to its hardware and software ecosystem will ensure continued and rightful dominance in the tablet market (in my humble opinion). This is only augmented by the fact that Apple conducts extensive and thorough R&D on new features and designs, down to the packaging, before release. They also don't rush to add features simply because their competitors have; in fact it is usually the other way around. These factors guarantee excellence in deliverable products, despite Apple's now-juggernaut status. They do not cut corners simply because they are on top and want to skim the fats of profit for the sake of profit (oh, Capitalist America).

    This is why I have always admired Apple. Unless some miracle product comes along that blows iPad out of the water in terms of hardware/software ecosystem excellence (it won't), I believe Apple's customer base and excellence will be ensured at the very least, decades to come.
  • Reply 155 of 167
    ubercoolubercool Posts: 2member
    Daniel, amazing research!!!! I had to sign up to comment here and I must commend you on simply outstanding research. I have retweeted it to my followers and I'm very glad I didn't join IDC a few years ago. :)

    Michael Tchong
    Founder of MacWEEK
  • Reply 156 of 167
    ubercoolubercool Posts: 2member

    Daniel, amazing research!!!! I had to sign up to comment here and I must commend you on simply outstanding research. I have retweeted it to my followers and I'm very glad I didn't join IDC a few years ago. <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

     

    Michael Tchong

    Founder of MacWEEK

  • Reply 157 of 167
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post





    Some things never change. Good to read you're better than before.

    Yes I have, from day one. A 1.6GHz single CPU, The first G5. A couple of later models, now on a mid 2010 MP.



    I think if you're looking at bare specs a DIY is a cheaper option, or at least I would expect so. But usually difficult to compare. With Apple you also pay for the OS and such.



    Do I understand you correctly that Apple offers their GPU cheaper than others? I take it you're referring to the D300/500/700 in their latest model. Which would be difficult to compare as well as they only bought the bare chip, not a full card.



    A lot of assumptions on my part here, sorry about that.

    Thank you for the heads, I already kind of figured that Apple wasn't using the full cards at the price thet they listed PowerMacs listed for. The performance seems to still be pretty fantastic though and I absolutely love the design which is half of why we buy Macs in the first place.

     

    UhOhhhhhhh, seems like I kicked over a hornets nest around here. To be clear I had zero intention or interest on waying in on the article from which this thread was formed. I just don't have the energy or fortitude (from my word of the day calendar) to comment on such things at the moment. I just replied to a user who asked if he should buy a Kindle 7 HDX, since I have one I thought I could give my experience with mine and I defiantly wasn't trying to prevent him from buying an iPad, the Kindle 7 HDX is actually a really neat little device for 200 dollars. The comment I made to PhiBoogie about Appleinsider in general, again was not made because of the article. I had just gotten done reading a few other threads and it brought back a lot of memories, I made it as a joke, in retrospect I wish I hadn't because it is very clear that some of you lack such a sense of humor when it comes to Apple. Those who know me just a little, know I mean no disrespect or any ill thoughts towards Apple. In fact, I have no real feelings towards them in general, their a computer company that sell inanimate objects. I use them when their products suit my needs, like a lot of Swiss Germans we look at the engineering side of things and not on how they make us feel. So then why do I come here, for you silly's , you guys are such character's and I enjoy your company, that and I am an uber geek of magnitude proportions and because I sway either which way in the tech world I think I bring a little levity to this very one sided site. So please don't make this into something it's not because there's nothing to discuss and I'm truly sorry if I did something to offend anyone. Next time I'll simply say,"me like Kindle" and leave it at that.

  • Reply 158 of 167
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    relic wrote: »
    [^ post]

    I got the humorous side of your post, as well as your unbiased view on the Kindle. Indeed, this post gotten way off track, and while I can understand some of the points being made, I think you deserve a thumbs up for responding here. Just last week I posted something stupid, which fortunately got deleted my a mod and learned that I should probably simply stick to tech talk. However, in your case, I would love to continue to read up on non-Apple stuff, preferably in a humorous way.
  • Reply 159 of 167
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post





    I got the humorous side of your post, as well as your unbiased view on the Kindle. Indeed, this post gotten way off track, and while I can understand some of the points being made, I think you deserve a thumbs up for responding here. Just last week I posted something stupid, which fortunately got deleted my a mod and learned that I should probably simply stick to tech talk. However, in your case, I would love to continue to read up on non-Apple stuff, preferably in a humorous way.

     

    You want to read something really stupid, I spent the better part of the weekend trying to teach my dog how to play Marry Had A Little Lamb on my keyboard. I even tried to color code the keys until I realized that dogs are color blind. So now I'm writing a script for my Novation Launchpad that will light up the button according to the tones that need to be pressed next. I'm on a mission to make a stupid pet video. So just know, whatever stupid thing you do, there is someone out there doing something even dumber.

  • Reply 160 of 167
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    relic wrote: »
    You want to read something really stupid, I spent the better part of the weekend trying to teach my dog how to play Marry Had A Little Lamb on my keyboard. I even tried to color code the keys until I realized that dogs are color blind. So now I'm writing a script for my Novation Launchpad that will light up the button according to the tones that need to be pressed next. I'm on a mission to make a stupid pet video. So just know, whatever stupid thing you do, there is someone out there doing something even dumber.

    Ha! Your dog certainly is a cutie, and I can understand you undertaking this 'mission'. Would like to see that video if you get to complete it.

    As for the tech used, that Launchpad if a nice little thing indeed:

    400

    [VIDEO]

    Bit like a Linn drummachine on steroids!
Sign In or Register to comment.