Dr. Dre owns a rumored 20-25% of Beats. Iovine likely owns far more. Dr. Dre did not start out in Hip-Hop. He started out producing for The World Class Wrecking Cru. He is is a producer not a Rapper/Hip-Hop artist.
If there is a deal being made it's being hammered out. Billboard and others are just trying to milk the Soap Opera.
On World Class's 2 albums, he's credited with drum programming and voice. So what are you talking about he wasn't a rapper?
He went on to join MWA which was credited as producing, but he also wrote the lyrics and performed on their albums as well. So, was producing as well as rapping and writing the disgusting lyrics.
Read the lyrics of the songs he produces. It's pure garbage.
On World Class's 2 albums, he's credited with drum programming and voice. So what are you talking about he wasn't a rapper?
He went on to join MWA which was credited as producing, but he also wrote the lyrics and performed on their albums as well. So, was producing as well as rapping and writing the disgusting lyrics.
Read the lyrics of the songs he produces. It's pure garbage.
Your childish opinion does not matter. He is what he is, so grow up and deal with it.
Apple can most certainly use a man with Dr. Dre's credentials.
He has been on the various sides of the media industry and is a winner.
If you can't or refuse to understand that then tough luck.
Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine donated a $70 million endowment to the University of Southern California to create the USC Jimmy Iovine and Andre Young Academy for Arts, Technology and the Business of Innovation.
Your childish opinion does not matter. He is what he is, so grow up and deal with it.
Apple can most certainly use a man with Dr. Dre's credentials.
He has been on the various sides of the media industry and is a winner. If you can't or refuse to understand that then tough luck.
If Dre and Iovine are so great how come we're not hearing about any other company being interested in Beats? Presumably Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Yahoo etc. could use Dre's credentials, no? Prior to this rumor surfacing I don't remember seeing any Apple watcher/blogger opine that Apple should go after Beats. I don't remember hearing about any other company being interested in Beats either. I'm not convinced that these guys are all that. Although I'm sure they they're great salesmen and have some of Steve Jobs RDF.
If Dre and Iovine are so great how come we're not hearing about any other company being interested in Beats? Presumably Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Yahoo etc. could use Dre's credentials, no? Prior to this rumor surfacing I don't remember seeing any Apple watcher/blogger opine that Apple should go after Beats. I don't remember hearing about any other company being interested in Beats either. I'm not convinced that these guys are all that. Although I'm sure they they're great salesmen and have some of Steve Jobs RDF.
Actually, I think Samsung would be very interested because they are trying to build their own platform and not depend on Android.
However Beats has always tried to complement Apple. The headsets came about because Dre felt that iPod earbuds were inadequate. Beats Music came about because Iovine suggested it to Steve Jobs and Apple chose not to do it. If Apple had done these things, Beats would not exist today. This one of the reasons why they fit Apple like a glove.
Can everyone stop responding to Applesauce? He's clearly trolling- and winning due to the responses. Although saying beats being worth $300 billion in 2 years did make me chuckle.
I think it's pretty fair to say that Billboard knows something about the music business. Wouldn't you agree?
If this acquisition was only for the headphone business I'd agree with you 100% about Apple being in the best position to evaluate the business. The financials would tell you everything you need to know.
When you start talking about the value of individuals and about the value of a very fledgling business (streaming), then there are people in the music industry who might have as good an idea (or better) as Apple as to what all that might be worth and how solid it is.
I don't think that Apple ever offered $3.2 billion for this company. I think Apple was talking to Iovine and Dre and those two told Cook that amount as their price. Now Cook and Company are trying to figure out if it's worth it but it's a difficult task when it's not all about the numbers.
People can legitimately complain about the strategy, the fit, and the two guys being hired (assuming any of this is true). I have done so myself.
But to suggest that $3.2B is an overvaluation is silly on its face. We have absolutely no idea what Beats's cash flows are.
If the numbers I've seen thrown around are true, this is a solid business business with solid profits. Even leaving synergies aside, a standalone valuation of $3.2 for the company might be more than amply justified.
The profit numbers we've heard puts valuation around $2b. Which is in line with the $3.2b purchase with foreign funds. There are no synergies with Beats and Apple outside of a tiny streaming service which is negligible. Anyone who claims there are synergies should also argue Apple should buy Logitech. It's an accessory maker that, if purchased, should operate independently. $2b real value would be a solid purchase price (again- based on the rumored numbers we've heard). If those numbers are different, then, clearly, Apple will adjust.
Yeah, you and the rest of us are likely to have a better handle on this than Apple does.
/s
I said something similar in the other thread regarding the tax laws- and that Apple's tax team has a better and more in depth understanding than you do- but you clearly argued that you knew exactly what they did. :no:
Me being arrogant? How about you try not to be so ignorant? Maybe that's the REAL problem.
You sound like you buy into the hype of Beats/Iovine and Dr. Dre. I don't. I don't have much respect for them other than they were successful at marketing some crappy headphones to a bunch of kids that don't really listen to music that's created by real musical instruments. Most of today's pop music the kids are listening aren't generated by recording musical instruments, but rather noises to represent music and it's so processed, they really don't know what an acoustic piano REALLY sounds like, or any musical instrument being played without a ton of signal processing. Heck, they don't even know what a real singer sounds like since most of today's pop music the singer's voice goes through Auto Tune and Melodyne software to alter their mistakes to make someone who can't sing sound like they can. That's the kind of crap most kids are listening to. Artificial garbage. It's been like that for about 20+ years, but has really done downhill in the last 10. probably thanks to Dr. Dre and Iovine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Intangibles? Like what specifically?
etc. etc. etc.
You go on and on and on... as if you actually know the deal... as if you actually know Beats... and Billboard...
... and yet, on the other hand, you also continue to tell us that Billboard wouldn't know certain things.
Well, they would certainly know a helluva lot more than you and you seem to be pretty cock sure that you know everything that is going on with this deal.
I don't think that Apple ever offered $3.2 billion for this company. I think Apple was talking to Iovine and Dre and those two told Cook that amount as their price. Now Cook and Company are trying to figure out if it's worth it but it's a difficult task when it's not all about the numbers.
I'm curious what you think hey get outside then numbers, island? Clearly, they get iovine and Dre- who have clout in the industry. But do they have more clout than Apple? And when they clearly work for Apple, how much does that clout work then? The labels are about money more than relationships- wouldn't you agree?
The streaming deals in place currently are voided with purchase, so there's little there- although having that streamer would be nice- not worth a ton, but a nice small synergy there.
The headphones are, well, headphones. No different than buying iHome.
I've been a detractor of this since I heard about it, but now that it sounds like the price could be smaller in terms of "real" money- I'm all about it. I think Beats are cool. Not for me, i have nice Shure headphones. But you can't deny their influence with the youth (and this is white, middle class+). I think having "Beats by Apple" would be great- particularly if they recoup heir money writhing the next 2-3 years. I'm all for it for the right price.
I said something similar in the other thread regarding the tax laws- and that Apple's tax team has a better and more in depth understanding than you do- but you clearly argued that you knew exactly what they did. :no:
I thought you said you were letting it go? Apparently not....
But since you brought it up, the issue with taxation of foreign income is a matter of the law and of regulation. The room for judgement is limited. The IRS goes after this sort of thing aggressively. Moreover, it was based on my checking with someone who spends his life working on issues of corporate taxation. He is an expert, which you are not.
Acquisition strategy and synergies are a matter of judgment, estimation, and forecasting. The difference between the two is like night and day.
Again, as I said before I don't expect you to see the difference (for if you did, you would not have brought it up).
I'm curious what you think hey get outside then numbers, island? Clearly, they get iovine and Dre- who have clout in the industry. But do they have more clout than Apple? And when they clearly work for Apple, how much does that clout work then? The labels are about money more than relationships- wouldn't you agree?
The streaming deals in place currently are voided with purchase, so there's little there- although having that streamer would be nice- not worth a ton, but a nice small synergy there.
The headphones are, well, headphones. No different than buying iHome.
I've been a detractor of this since I heard about it, but now that it sounds like the price could be smaller in terms of "real" money- I'm all about it. I think Beats are cool. Not for me, i have nice Shure headphones. But you can't deny their influence with the youth (and this is white, middle class+). I think having "Beats by Apple" would be great- particularly if they recoup heir money writhing the next 2-3 years. I'm all for it for the right price.
I've always said that I think this deal is bullshit.
I think it's pretty fair to say that Billboard knows something about the music business. Wouldn't you agree?
........
When you start talking about the value of individuals and about the value of a very fledgling business ......
1) I think it's pretty fair to say that Apple knows something more about its strategy -- and the value of a business that, in its view, enhances that strategy -- than Billboard. Wouldn't you agree?
2) I'd like you to cut and paste exactly where I said anything about valuation of individuals or fledgling businesses. I did not. Please avoid making mis-attributions. Thanks.
I've always said that I think this deal is bullshit.
Hah. Me too- lol. I just don't see these inflated "synergies" that people keep bringing up. I look at it as strictly a hardware deal, which is fine as long as the price makes since solely from a hardware stance; but again, why would Apple make a hardware deal? I was hoping you saw something didn't.
Can everyone stop responding to Applesauce? He's clearly trolling- and winning due to the responses. Although saying beats being worth $300 billion in 2 years did make me chuckle.
Haha... You're a funny guy Andysol. You look like an Android fan. LOL
1) I think it's pretty fair to say that Apple knows something more about its strategy -- and the value of a business that, in its view, enhances that strategy -- than Billboard. Wouldn't you agree?
2) I'd like you to cut and paste exactly where I said anything about valuation of individuals or fledgling businesses. I did not. Please avoid making mis-attributions. Thanks.
1. Reread my first post. I said exactly the same thing. [sorry, when I said, "what it means to Cook and Apple personally"... that's what I meant... "personally" was just a bad choice of words]
2. Does it not seem that individuals and a fledgling streaming business are a part of this deal? Wouldn't that have to be a part of the valuation? Or do you suggest that Apple is only buying the headphone business?
1. Reread my first post. I said exactly the same thing. [sorry, when I said, "what it means to Cook and Apple personally"... that's what I meant... "personally" was just a bad choice of words]
2. Does it not seem that individuals and a fledgling streaming business are a part of this deal? Wouldn't that have to be a part of the valuation? Or do you suggest that Apple is only buying the headphone business?
1) Then I have no idea what you've been going on about.
2) Yes. Yes. No.
You need to reread my first post. This is all beside the point I was making.
One could argue, however, that if the headphone business alone will justify the price paid (given revenue, margins, growth, Apple branding and marketing, co-selling), the rest, including individuals and streaming and whatever else, is gravy. I was not saying it justifies the price paid, I was simply saying that none of knows since Beats's numbers are private.
Comments
Dr. Dre owns a rumored 20-25% of Beats. Iovine likely owns far more. Dr. Dre did not start out in Hip-Hop. He started out producing for The World Class Wrecking Cru. He is is a producer not a Rapper/Hip-Hop artist.
If there is a deal being made it's being hammered out. Billboard and others are just trying to milk the Soap Opera.
On World Class's 2 albums, he's credited with drum programming and voice. So what are you talking about he wasn't a rapper?
He went on to join MWA which was credited as producing, but he also wrote the lyrics and performed on their albums as well. So, was producing as well as rapping and writing the disgusting lyrics.
Read the lyrics of the songs he produces. It's pure garbage.
On World Class's 2 albums, he's credited with drum programming and voice. So what are you talking about he wasn't a rapper?
He went on to join MWA which was credited as producing, but he also wrote the lyrics and performed on their albums as well. So, was producing as well as rapping and writing the disgusting lyrics.
Read the lyrics of the songs he produces. It's pure garbage.
Your childish opinion does not matter. He is what he is, so grow up and deal with it.
Apple can most certainly use a man with Dr. Dre's credentials.
He has been on the various sides of the media industry and is a winner.
If you can't or refuse to understand that then tough luck.
From WikiPedia:
Dr. Dre, is an American record producer, rapper and entrepreneur. (Born in Compton, California)
He is the founder and current CEO of Aftermath Entertainment and Beats Electronics.
Dre was previously the co-owner of, and an artist on, Death Row Records.
He has produced albums for and overseen the careers of many rappers, including Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Xzibit, 50 Cent, The Game, and Kendrick Lamar.
Dr. Dre was ranked as the second richest figure in the American hip hop scene by Forbes with a net worth of $550 million.
Dr. Dre made his first on screen appearance as a weapons dealer in the 1996 bank robbery movie Set It Off.
Dr. Dre also appeared in the movies The Wash and Training Day.
Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine donated a $70 million endowment to the University of Southern California to create the USC Jimmy Iovine and Andre Young Academy for Arts, Technology and the Business of Innovation.
Grammy Awards
Year
Nominated work
Award
Result
1994
Nuthin' But a G Thang
Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group
Nominated
1994
Let Me Ride
Best Rap Solo Performance
Won
1996
Keep There Heads Ringin'
Best Rap Solo Performance
Nominated
1997
California Love
Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group
Nominated
2000
Still D.R.E.
Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group
Nominated
2000
Guilty Conscience
Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group
Nominated
2001
Dr. Dre 2001
Best Rap Album
Nominated
2001
Himself
Producer of the Year
Won
2001
The Marshall Mathers LP
Album of the Year(as Producer)
Nominated
2001
The Marshall Mathers LP
Best Rap Album(as Producer)
Won
2001
Forgot About Dre
Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group
Won
2001
The Next Episode
Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group
Nominated
2002
Himself
Producer of the Year
Nominated
2003
HImself
Producer of the Year
Nominated
2003
Knoc
Best Music Video, Short Form
Nominated
2006
Encore
Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group
Nominated
2010
Crack a Bottle
Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group
Won
2010
Relapse
Best Rap Album (Producer)
Won
2012
I Need a Doctor
Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group
Nominated
2012
I Need a Doctor
Best Rap Song
Nominated
MTV Video Music Awards
Year
Nominated work
Award
Result
1993
"Nuthin' But a G Thang"
Best Rap Video
Nominated
1994
"Let Me Ride"
Best Rap Video
Nominated
1995
"Keep Their Heads Ringin'"
Best Rap Video
Won
1996
"California Love"
Best Rap Video
Nominated
1997
"Been There, Done That"
Best Rap Video
Nominated
1997
"No Diggity"
Best Rap Video
Nominated
1997
"No Diggity"
Best R&B Video
Nominated
1999
"My Name Is"
Best Direction
Nominated
1999
"Guilty Conscience"
Best Breakthrough Video
Nominated
2000
"The Real Slim Shady"
Best Direction
Nominated
2000
"Forgot About Dre"
Best Rap Video
Won
2001
"Stan"
Best Direction
Nominated
Filmography
Films
Year
Title
Role
Notes
1992
Niggaz4Life: The Only Home Video
Himself
Documentary
1996
Set It Off
Black Sam
Minor Role
1999
Whiteboyz
Don Flip Crew #1
Minor Role
2000
Up In Smoke Tour
Himself
Concert Film
2001
Training Day
Paul
Minor Role
The Wash
Sean
Main Role
Video Games
Year
Title
Role
Notes
2005
50 Cent: Bulletproof
Grizz
Voice role and likeness
I'm fairly certain the OP of the 666 thing was 100% serious.
I assume you are being sarcastic.
If so, the same could be said of you, no?
If Dre and Iovine are so great how come we're not hearing about any other company being interested in Beats? Presumably Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Yahoo etc. could use Dre's credentials, no? Prior to this rumor surfacing I don't remember seeing any Apple watcher/blogger opine that Apple should go after Beats. I don't remember hearing about any other company being interested in Beats either. I'm not convinced that these guys are all that. Although I'm sure they they're great salesmen and have some of Steve Jobs RDF.
Actually, I think Samsung would be very interested because they are trying to build their own platform and not depend on Android.
However Beats has always tried to complement Apple. The headsets came about because Dre felt that iPod earbuds were inadequate. Beats Music came about because Iovine suggested it to Steve Jobs and Apple chose not to do it. If Apple had done these things, Beats would not exist today. This one of the reasons why they fit Apple like a glove.
I assume you are being sarcastic.
If so, the same could be said of you, no?
I think it's pretty fair to say that Billboard knows something about the music business. Wouldn't you agree?
If this acquisition was only for the headphone business I'd agree with you 100% about Apple being in the best position to evaluate the business. The financials would tell you everything you need to know.
When you start talking about the value of individuals and about the value of a very fledgling business (streaming), then there are people in the music industry who might have as good an idea (or better) as Apple as to what all that might be worth and how solid it is.
I don't think that Apple ever offered $3.2 billion for this company. I think Apple was talking to Iovine and Dre and those two told Cook that amount as their price. Now Cook and Company are trying to figure out if it's worth it but it's a difficult task when it's not all about the numbers.
The profit numbers we've heard puts valuation around $2b. Which is in line with the $3.2b purchase with foreign funds. There are no synergies with Beats and Apple outside of a tiny streaming service which is negligible. Anyone who claims there are synergies should also argue Apple should buy Logitech. It's an accessory maker that, if purchased, should operate independently. $2b real value would be a solid purchase price (again- based on the rumored numbers we've heard). If those numbers are different, then, clearly, Apple will adjust.
I said something similar in the other thread regarding the tax laws- and that Apple's tax team has a better and more in depth understanding than you do- but you clearly argued that you knew exactly what they did. :no:
Me being arrogant? How about you try not to be so ignorant? Maybe that's the REAL problem.
You sound like you buy into the hype of Beats/Iovine and Dr. Dre. I don't. I don't have much respect for them other than they were successful at marketing some crappy headphones to a bunch of kids that don't really listen to music that's created by real musical instruments. Most of today's pop music the kids are listening aren't generated by recording musical instruments, but rather noises to represent music and it's so processed, they really don't know what an acoustic piano REALLY sounds like, or any musical instrument being played without a ton of signal processing. Heck, they don't even know what a real singer sounds like since most of today's pop music the singer's voice goes through Auto Tune and Melodyne software to alter their mistakes to make someone who can't sing sound like they can. That's the kind of crap most kids are listening to. Artificial garbage. It's been like that for about 20+ years, but has really done downhill in the last 10. probably thanks to Dr. Dre and Iovine.
Intangibles? Like what specifically?
etc. etc. etc.
You go on and on and on... as if you actually know the deal... as if you actually know Beats... and Billboard...
... and yet, on the other hand, you also continue to tell us that Billboard wouldn't know certain things.
Well, they would certainly know a helluva lot more than you and you seem to be pretty cock sure that you know everything that is going on with this deal.
Hmmmmmm.... strange.
I'm curious what you think hey get outside then numbers, island? Clearly, they get iovine and Dre- who have clout in the industry. But do they have more clout than Apple? And when they clearly work for Apple, how much does that clout work then? The labels are about money more than relationships- wouldn't you agree?
The streaming deals in place currently are voided with purchase, so there's little there- although having that streamer would be nice- not worth a ton, but a nice small synergy there.
The headphones are, well, headphones. No different than buying iHome.
I've been a detractor of this since I heard about it, but now that it sounds like the price could be smaller in terms of "real" money- I'm all about it. I think Beats are cool. Not for me, i have nice Shure headphones. But you can't deny their influence with the youth (and this is white, middle class+). I think having "Beats by Apple" would be great- particularly if they recoup heir money writhing the next 2-3 years. I'm all for it for the right price.
I thought you said you were letting it go? Apparently not....
But since you brought it up, the issue with taxation of foreign income is a matter of the law and of regulation. The room for judgement is limited. The IRS goes after this sort of thing aggressively. Moreover, it was based on my checking with someone who spends his life working on issues of corporate taxation. He is an expert, which you are not.
Acquisition strategy and synergies are a matter of judgment, estimation, and forecasting. The difference between the two is like night and day.
Again, as I said before I don't expect you to see the difference (for if you did, you would not have brought it up).
I'm curious what you think hey get outside then numbers, island? Clearly, they get iovine and Dre- who have clout in the industry. But do they have more clout than Apple? And when they clearly work for Apple, how much does that clout work then? The labels are about money more than relationships- wouldn't you agree?
The streaming deals in place currently are voided with purchase, so there's little there- although having that streamer would be nice- not worth a ton, but a nice small synergy there.
The headphones are, well, headphones. No different than buying iHome.
I've been a detractor of this since I heard about it, but now that it sounds like the price could be smaller in terms of "real" money- I'm all about it. I think Beats are cool. Not for me, i have nice Shure headphones. But you can't deny their influence with the youth (and this is white, middle class+). I think having "Beats by Apple" would be great- particularly if they recoup heir money writhing the next 2-3 years. I'm all for it for the right price.
I've always said that I think this deal is bullshit.
1) I think it's pretty fair to say that Apple knows something more about its strategy -- and the value of a business that, in its view, enhances that strategy -- than Billboard. Wouldn't you agree?
2) I'd like you to cut and paste exactly where I said anything about valuation of individuals or fledgling businesses. I did not. Please avoid making mis-attributions. Thanks.
Hah. Me too- lol. I just don't see these inflated "synergies" that people keep bringing up. I look at it as strictly a hardware deal, which is fine as long as the price makes since solely from a hardware stance; but again, why would Apple make a hardware deal? I was hoping you saw something didn't.
Can everyone stop responding to Applesauce? He's clearly trolling- and winning due to the responses. Although saying beats being worth $300 billion in 2 years did make me chuckle.
Haha... You're a funny guy Andysol. You look like an Android fan. LOL
1) I think it's pretty fair to say that Apple knows something more about its strategy -- and the value of a business that, in its view, enhances that strategy -- than Billboard. Wouldn't you agree?
2) I'd like you to cut and paste exactly where I said anything about valuation of individuals or fledgling businesses. I did not. Please avoid making mis-attributions. Thanks.
1. Reread my first post. I said exactly the same thing. [sorry, when I said, "what it means to Cook and Apple personally"... that's what I meant... "personally" was just a bad choice of words]
2. Does it not seem that individuals and a fledgling streaming business are a part of this deal? Wouldn't that have to be a part of the valuation? Or do you suggest that Apple is only buying the headphone business?
I own two iMacs, a MacBook Pro, a Mac mini, two iPads, two iPhones, an iPod touch, time capsule, 3 airport expresses, and two Apple TVs, but.....
There, now I look like an android fan
1) Then I have no idea what you've been going on about.
2) Yes. Yes. No.
You need to reread my first post. This is all beside the point I was making.
One could argue, however, that if the headphone business alone will justify the price paid (given revenue, margins, growth, Apple branding and marketing, co-selling), the rest, including individuals and streaming and whatever else, is gravy. I was not saying it justifies the price paid, I was simply saying that none of knows since Beats's numbers are private.