<strong>You think its fun to be negative, don't you? I think you're just looking for a reason to be mad.
No, apple gives me plenty of reasons to be mad
There's a difference between being negative and not living in the RDF </strong><hr></blockquote>
There is no doubt that they do provide a few good reasons of irritation, and I don't live in the RDF... but everything discussed here is rumoured prerelease and since Apple hasn't admitted to it yet, it doesn't really fall into the RDF does it? No, it is just some cautious optimism -- nothing listed above is particularly outrageous, and Apple does deliver improved technology on a regular basis. If they didn't we'd still be running on a 7.8 MHz 68000 with 128K of RAM, 64K of ROM, and a noisy floppy drive. They even pull ahead of the PC crowd now and then (MacIIfx, 601, 604e, even the G3 in some ways). Give them some credit, and realize that engineering is actually hard work and can take a lot of time and money.
There is no doubt that they do provide a few good reasons of irritation, and I don't live in the RDF... but everything discussed here is rumoured prerelease and since Apple hasn't admitted to it yet, it doesn't really fall into the RDF does it? No, it is just some cautious optimism -- nothing listed above is particularly outrageous, and Apple does deliver improved technology on a regular basis. If they didn't we'd still be running on a 7.8 MHz 68000 with 128K of RAM, 64K of ROM, and a noisy floppy drive. They even pull ahead of the PC crowd now and then (MacIIfx, 601, 604e, even the G3 in some ways). Give them some credit, and realize that engineering is actually hard work and can take a lot of time and money.
I like many would be very happy if apple employed some innovative design on the contents of their innovative designs. Some of this stuff sounds good - but that's all. Believe it or not, I am actually optimistic that apple can pull something out of the hat but I find it bizarre that so many people are trumpeting the possible addition of DDR or a speed hike to 1.5ghz as an amazing and dream come true possibility. I would regard it as a small step, a welcome one to be sure but a small step. And yes I know that engineering is actually hard work and can take a lot of time and money but how come apple seem to be only ones struggling at it? Its not as if they are short of cash. I've been amazed at the design work that has gone into the casings of the mac line (with the exception of the eMac) but just wish apple would show the same verve, daring and innovation on the inside.
I love how maclots use Quartz Extreme as an escape when faced with the fact that Aqua is slow, and always will be slow.
Quartz Extreme won't make Aqua run faster in general use. Only the Compositor will be optimized so that it isn't utterly pathetic during multiple events.
I am perfectly happy living within the warm confines of the Apple (SJ) RDF. I like getting wrapped-up in the hype... why...? Because truth-be-told... we're ALWAYS gonna want more from them... ALWAYS... you think there are DELL forums speculating on the pending releases of hardware or marketing or design...?
I am somewhat of a Power-User to some extent... I'm a designer who uses Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightwave, Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro... apps that need speedy hardware... and I must say... that I get the performance I need off my 533 G4 w/ 1.5 GB RAM. Sure... renders could be quicker... but that'll ALWAYS be the case.
My 533 G4 is STILL suiting me fine... but when I upgrade to the NEXT top-of-the-line PowerMac... it TOO will suit me fine, because it will be even FASTER than my current machine.
Whatever they release at MWNY... I'm sure the performance will be to my liking. As long as they release products with style, substance, a certain "coolness" factor and still continue to provide me with the BEST operating system (IMHO) on the planet... I am very happy with them.
FWIW. Do not confuse my love for Apple hardware & software with "Blind Acceptance". I too am capable of recognizing occasional shortcomings... but let's be real... put any OTHER company under the same scrutiny that *we* put Apple under, and I'm willing to bet they would fail miserably.
The so-fabled "RDF" can be a fun place to be if you are AWARE that you are living in it and not "blind" to reality. I enjoy it for what it is and will continue to do so.
As a friend pointed out to me: "Dude... Apple could unveil a Toxic Pollution Emitter that spews harmful chemicals into the atmosphere and you'd focus on how EFFICIENTLY it does it and how COOL it looks while doing so..."
Yeah...? So what's your point? Heheheh...
Anyhow... I'm looking forward to the MWNY and whatever is released.
<strong>Quartz Extreme won't make Aqua run faster in general use. Only the Compositor will be optimized so that it isn't utterly pathetic during multiple events.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you had a chance to try it already? Or how do you know so precisely?
<strong>Anyhow... I'm looking forward to the MWNY and whatever is released.
Let's hope it's a "doozie".</strong><hr></blockquote>
What is highly likely:
New mobo, like Xserve, ddr to main memory like Xserve, improved G4 [edit] with larger cache like Xserve [end edit], system chip like Xserve, [edit] 4x AGP off of System chip allowing full access to main memory like Xserve.
Likely:
MaxBus @ 166Mhz to system chip, FireWire 2, [edit] better graphics like Dorsal said [end edit], [edit] DSPs on system chip like Moki said [end edit]
Likely in '03:
G5, RIO from CPU to System chip, HT from System chip to GPU, 128 bit Main memory (2x64).
Machines designed for Shake and Tremor and all the other stuff that Apple will buy will be here in '03 IMHO
Any of the stuff that is likely in '02 will serve the markets they are intended to. If you want to do highend 3D wait till '03. Remember that Apple and Moto are pulling of an 18 month stale mate with the PPC, from what I have heard there is a huge difference between a 7400 and a 7455. On the horizon the 85xx class processors look very interesting indeed. Again the 85xx could be '03
<strong>I love how maclots use Quartz Extreme as an escape when faced with the fact that Aqua is slow, and always will be slow.
Quartz Extreme won't make Aqua run faster in general use. Only the Compositor will be optimized so that it isn't utterly pathetic during multiple events.
does it really matter? using it you notice a difference and pretty much all of my issues with the responsiveness of OS X have been resolved with Jaguar on my G4/400.
You're right in that maybe some things still are slow in Quartz like drawing and antialiased text that make browsers that use quartz slow in rendering but I didn't notice it that much if at all
[quote]Believe it or not, I am actually optimistic that apple can pull something out of the hat but I find it bizarre that so many people are trumpeting the possible addition of DDR or a speed hike to 1.5ghz as an amazing and dream come true possibility. I would regard it as a small step, a welcome one to be sure but a small step. <hr></blockquote>
If the G4 gained a DDR MPX bus and clocked as high as 1.5GHz, it would compare favorably with the top end Athlons available now. That would be a damn near doubling of performance overnight, and you'd call that a small step?
No, I think what's much more likely is an Xserve chipset with a modest speed boost, like say to 1.266Ghz or 1.333GHz. I like Programmer's calculations of the boost the Xserve chipset will give, but I fear they may be too optimistic. Perhaps 10-20%, but 25-30% just seems to high, given the P3 only saw a 3% increase going to DDR. The performance boost from the increased bandwith, coupled with the increase in clock speed by 25-33%, should give us a good 25-40% overall boost.
That is, if Apple doesn't just bump the clock to 1.1GHz, and does nothing with the bus...
<strong>I swear, some of you will never be happy. Life is too short too be this worked up over a computer.
If you really believe life is better on the PC side, then buy a PC.
TinG5</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amen! And on that note.....que the 1984 commercial music.....we need all true mac fans to gather close together. Bring weapons and food enough to last a few years. We will be relocating to an undisclosed location to weather out the storm post July NYM. Bring only your family, and only those memebers who have the mark of the fruit. We are one people, one mind, one body, one OS... Our enemies shall fall before us and we shall triumph.
PS, I would like to take this moment and give a shout out to my good friend steve jobs. I still believe in you!!!
If the G4 gained a DDR MPX bus and clocked as high as 1.5GHz, it would compare favorably with the top end Athlons available now. That would be a damn near doubling of performance overnight, and you'd call that a small step?
Compare favourably with top end athlons? is that it? Not Toast top end athlons? Are we mac users now so easily impressed? By the time apple actually ships the machines the wintel world will have moved on again. At that point exactly which athlons will it compare favourably against by the time you receive the newly ordered 'Power' Mac?
When did you saw Steve Jobs make a benchmark with Photoshop ? Last year at MWNY.
I bet we will see one this year with Photoshop 7 for X. And I think this will be 'grandiose' cuz of the new graphic architecture (and here I'm hoping that they will compare some video stuff between PC and Final Cut).
Maybe we will have only a 166 Mhz FSB but with 2 bus for each processor. Maybe we will have a full 266/333 FSB... who knows? But all is clear for a big announcement. I don't think we will have just a lame 1.2 Ghz with the same bus or an upgraded iPod. The sky is clear for the take off.
Compare favourably with top end athlons? is that it? Not Toast top end athlons? Are we mac users now so easily impressed? By the time apple actually ships the machines the wintel world will have moved on again. At that point exactly which athlons will it compare favourably against by the time you receive the newly ordered 'Power' Mac?<hr></blockquote>
Sorry but Athlon processor are hitting the wall. Did you see the real Mhz upgrade ? It's really bad. They're ready for the next gen, they cannot do more with this generation. They even can compete with the PIV anymore.
And so here we are... we WILL have Gx ! Maybe in a year maybe in 6 months, but it's a given.
ANd Apple will compete in video and 3D. RDF full blast !
<strong> If the G4 gained a DDR MPX bus and clocked as high as 1.5GHz, it would compare favorably with the top end Athlons available now. That would be a damn near doubling of performance overnight, and you'd call that a small step?
Compare favourably with top end athlons? is that it? Not Toast top end athlons? Are we mac users now so easily impressed? By the time apple actually ships the machines the wintel world will have moved on again. At that point exactly which athlons will it compare favourably against by the time you receive the newly ordered 'Power' Mac?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just a question, but just what do you need with such awsome power? Unless you are a 3-D designer or head programmer at Adobe what's the BFD? Pick up any mac from the Apple Store, stick a geforce 4 in it, and slap a gig of ram in it. It can handle anything
you might throw at it. I don't think a processor measuring contest is in order. That is saved for high school locker rooms or unix boards. This is a mac world, and I believe my mac has a bigger backside cache then yours. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> So what's the big deal? Which one of your PC buddies is picking on you so much that you have to have a bigger stick to hit them back with. Try a new approach. When they raise their stick, burn it off with the Toasty-7 napalm pack from marathon and then buy them a cheerwine.
I thought the magic was in owning a mac, not building the highest duplo tower.
A 1.5 GHz G4, with the requisite memory bandwidth would give an Athlon a run for its money. No, its not top-flight performance, but until MWSF in 2003, its the best we'll get.
The new IBM part we'll see at MWSF (and I am fairly confident IBM is behind the next gen PPC) will be an impressive performer.
Yet the G4 will continue to improve as it settles into the consumer and portable lines. The important distinction here is that Apple won't need MP in these lines, and will be able to have Motorola (or themselves) implement an on-chip DDR controller, since cache-coherency will no longer be an issue. The G4 in this form will be much like the P4 and Athlon in the sense that it will have a MUCH larger L2 cache (2x its current size) and may even gain RIO interconnects (this part is speculation), since Apple won't be using the MPX.
A second possibility is that Dorsal M is in fact an informed poster, in which case Apple may in fact pull some engineering feat to resolve the current bandwidth/MP issue (the issue is that an on-chip controller precludes MP, or comes at too high a price).
At any rate, I think you'll be quite happy with the performance of a G4 at 1.4 GHz, especially if they get some serious bandwidth in there.
But if top notch performance is what you crave, I recommend holding off until winter, when you'll be able to pick up the IBM part, the R300, as well as the next gen nVidia card.
[quote]Sorry but Athlon processor are hitting the wall. Did you see the real Mhz upgrade ? It's really bad. They're ready for the next gen, they cannot do more with this generation. They even can compete with the PIV anymore.
And so here we are... we WILL have Gx ! Maybe in a year maybe in 6 months, but it's a given.
ANd Apple will compete in video and 3D. RDF full blast !<hr></blockquote>
what's more interesting is that AMD has stated that the Athlon is SOL WRT to SOI: especially considering that Moto and AMD have a process arrangement (wherein they share tech, but Moto leads the process). Did the partnership fall apart?
Spooky, apparently you didn't get the main point of my post, so I'll quote it here with the important bit highlighted:
[quote]If the G4 gained a DDR MPX bus and clocked as high as 1.5GHz, it would compare favorably with the top end Athlons available now. That would be a damn near doubling of performance overnight, and you'd call that a small step?<hr></blockquote>
...
[quote]By the time apple actually ships the machines the wintel world will have moved on again. <hr></blockquote>
Moved on to where? To another 3-5% boost in performance that Intel/AMD have been shoveling out every few months for the past two years? The only thing that might result in a big boost for AMD's chips is the Hammer, and it's not due until next year. We're talking about what Apple might do in four weeks, so if Apple were to come out with something that matched current Athlon performance, how much could AMD immediately pull ahead? 10%? Are you really worried about such a paltry difference?
Just a question, but just what do you need with such awsome power? Unless you are a 3-D designer or head programmer at Adobe what's the BFD? Pick up any mac from the Apple Store, stick a geforce 4 in it, and slap a gig of ram in it. It can handle anything
you might throw at it. I don't think a processor measuring contest is in order. That is saved for high school locker rooms or unix boards. This is a mac world, and I believe my mac has a bigger backside cache then yours. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> So what's the big deal? Which one of your PC buddies is picking on you so much that you have to have a bigger stick to hit them back with. Try a new approach. When they raise their stick, burn it off with the Toasty-7 napalm pack from marathon and then buy them a cheerwine.
I thought the magic was in owning a mac, not building the highest duplo tower.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't need the power - except in an ideal sense (ie a computer that boots immediately etc but we'd ALL love that!!). I do however need to counter the endless arguments from the wintel biased procurement and IT controllers where I work (just like everywhere else in the Uk I guess). We only have one powermac based suite in our centre now. Why? Becuase the powers that be switched to wintel left right and centre. Why? Because (according to them) "Macs don't use the latest technologies, they have low clock speeds and you can get all the software for PCs anyway. There is no way we can justify purchasing 60 machines running at 1Ghz for twice the price of windows machines running at 2Ghz."
This is the only argument they continually put forward. I know they're stupid and don't get it. But really its us that don't get it. We will never presuade them of the Mghz myth. Apple should look to dominating the Multimedia industries where it can rule. But even there, the last multimedia show I went to I counted 4 Macs - the rest were PCs or SGI boxes.
We have purchased over 150 computers recently - all wintel. Just imagine if all that cash was going into apple's coffers. . .
<strong>Moved on to where? To another 3-5% boost in performance that Intel/AMD have been shoveling out every few months for the past two years?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now that you say it - the Athlon XP was increasing it's speed by some 66 mhz at one step, right? It sounded more with the 1x00+ rating scheme though. I wonder how a 66 mhz speed boost on a G4 compares to an Athlong XP one.
Comments
<strong>You think its fun to be negative, don't you? I think you're just looking for a reason to be mad.
No, apple gives me plenty of reasons to be mad
There's a difference between being negative and not living in the RDF
There is no doubt that they do provide a few good reasons of irritation, and I don't live in the RDF... but everything discussed here is rumoured prerelease and since Apple hasn't admitted to it yet, it doesn't really fall into the RDF does it? No, it is just some cautious optimism -- nothing listed above is particularly outrageous, and Apple does deliver improved technology on a regular basis. If they didn't we'd still be running on a 7.8 MHz 68000 with 128K of RAM, 64K of ROM, and a noisy floppy drive. They even pull ahead of the PC crowd now and then (MacIIfx, 601, 604e, even the G3 in some ways). Give them some credit, and realize that engineering is actually hard work and can take a lot of time and money.
<strong>You think its fun to be negative, don't you? I think you're just looking for a reason to be mad.
No, apple gives me plenty of reasons to be mad
There's a difference between being negative and not living in the RDF
and the difference is??? Who's RDF, yours??
Things can always be better than they are. Learn to live in reality, what it is is what it is.
I like many would be very happy if apple employed some innovative design on the contents of their innovative designs. Some of this stuff sounds good - but that's all. Believe it or not, I am actually optimistic that apple can pull something out of the hat but I find it bizarre that so many people are trumpeting the possible addition of DDR or a speed hike to 1.5ghz as an amazing and dream come true possibility. I would regard it as a small step, a welcome one to be sure but a small step. And yes I know that engineering is actually hard work and can take a lot of time and money but how come apple seem to be only ones struggling at it? Its not as if they are short of cash. I've been amazed at the design work that has gone into the casings of the mac line (with the exception of the eMac) but just wish apple would show the same verve, daring and innovation on the inside.
Quartz Extreme won't make Aqua run faster in general use. Only the Compositor will be optimized so that it isn't utterly pathetic during multiple events.
[ 06-16-2002: Message edited by: Nostradamus ]</p>
I am somewhat of a Power-User to some extent... I'm a designer who uses Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightwave, Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro... apps that need speedy hardware... and I must say... that I get the performance I need off my 533 G4 w/ 1.5 GB RAM. Sure... renders could be quicker... but that'll ALWAYS be the case.
My 533 G4 is STILL suiting me fine... but when I upgrade to the NEXT top-of-the-line PowerMac... it TOO will suit me fine, because it will be even FASTER than my current machine.
Whatever they release at MWNY... I'm sure the performance will be to my liking. As long as they release products with style, substance, a certain "coolness" factor and still continue to provide me with the BEST operating system (IMHO) on the planet... I am very happy with them.
FWIW. Do not confuse my love for Apple hardware & software with "Blind Acceptance". I too am capable of recognizing occasional shortcomings... but let's be real... put any OTHER company under the same scrutiny that *we* put Apple under, and I'm willing to bet they would fail miserably.
The so-fabled "RDF" can be a fun place to be if you are AWARE that you are living in it and not "blind" to reality. I enjoy it for what it is and will continue to do so.
As a friend pointed out to me: "Dude... Apple could unveil a Toxic Pollution Emitter that spews harmful chemicals into the atmosphere and you'd focus on how EFFICIENTLY it does it and how COOL it looks while doing so..."
Yeah...? So what's your point? Heheheh...
Anyhow... I'm looking forward to the MWNY and whatever is released.
Let's hope it's a "doozie".
<strong>Quartz Extreme won't make Aqua run faster in general use. Only the Compositor will be optimized so that it isn't utterly pathetic during multiple events.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you had a chance to try it already? Or how do you know so precisely?
<strong>Anyhow... I'm looking forward to the MWNY and whatever is released.
Let's hope it's a "doozie".</strong><hr></blockquote>
What is highly likely:
New mobo, like Xserve, ddr to main memory like Xserve, improved G4 [edit] with larger cache like Xserve [end edit], system chip like Xserve, [edit] 4x AGP off of System chip allowing full access to main memory like Xserve.
Likely:
MaxBus @ 166Mhz to system chip, FireWire 2, [edit] better graphics like Dorsal said [end edit], [edit] DSPs on system chip like Moki said [end edit]
Likely in '03:
G5, RIO from CPU to System chip, HT from System chip to GPU, 128 bit Main memory (2x64).
Machines designed for Shake and Tremor and all the other stuff that Apple will buy will be here in '03 IMHO
Any of the stuff that is likely in '02 will serve the markets they are intended to. If you want to do highend 3D wait till '03. Remember that Apple and Moto are pulling of an 18 month stale mate with the PPC, from what I have heard there is a huge difference between a 7400 and a 7455. On the horizon the 85xx class processors look very interesting indeed. Again the 85xx could be '03
[ 06-16-2002: Message edited by: Brendon ]
[ 06-16-2002: Message edited by: Brendon ]</p>
<strong>I love how maclots use Quartz Extreme as an escape when faced with the fact that Aqua is slow, and always will be slow.
Quartz Extreme won't make Aqua run faster in general use. Only the Compositor will be optimized so that it isn't utterly pathetic during multiple events.
[ 06-16-2002: Message edited by: Nostradamus ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
does it really matter? using it you notice a difference and pretty much all of my issues with the responsiveness of OS X have been resolved with Jaguar on my G4/400.
You're right in that maybe some things still are slow in Quartz like drawing and antialiased text that make browsers that use quartz slow in rendering but I didn't notice it that much if at all
If you really believe life is better on the PC side, then buy a PC.
TinG5
If the G4 gained a DDR MPX bus and clocked as high as 1.5GHz, it would compare favorably with the top end Athlons available now. That would be a damn near doubling of performance overnight, and you'd call that a small step?
No, I think what's much more likely is an Xserve chipset with a modest speed boost, like say to 1.266Ghz or 1.333GHz. I like Programmer's calculations of the boost the Xserve chipset will give, but I fear they may be too optimistic. Perhaps 10-20%, but 25-30% just seems to high, given the P3 only saw a 3% increase going to DDR. The performance boost from the increased bandwith, coupled with the increase in clock speed by 25-33%, should give us a good 25-40% overall boost.
That is, if Apple doesn't just bump the clock to 1.1GHz, and does nothing with the bus...
<strong>I swear, some of you will never be happy. Life is too short too be this worked up over a computer.
If you really believe life is better on the PC side, then buy a PC.
TinG5</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amen! And on that note.....que the 1984 commercial music.....we need all true mac fans to gather close together. Bring weapons and food enough to last a few years. We will be relocating to an undisclosed location to weather out the storm post July NYM. Bring only your family, and only those memebers who have the mark of the fruit. We are one people, one mind, one body, one OS... Our enemies shall fall before us and we shall triumph.
PS, I would like to take this moment and give a shout out to my good friend steve jobs. I still believe in you!!!
Compare favourably with top end athlons? is that it? Not Toast top end athlons? Are we mac users now so easily impressed? By the time apple actually ships the machines the wintel world will have moved on again. At that point exactly which athlons will it compare favourably against by the time you receive the newly ordered 'Power' Mac?
When did you saw Steve Jobs make a benchmark with Photoshop ? Last year at MWNY.
I bet we will see one this year with Photoshop 7 for X. And I think this will be 'grandiose' cuz of the new graphic architecture (and here I'm hoping that they will compare some video stuff between PC and Final Cut).
Maybe we will have only a 166 Mhz FSB but with 2 bus for each processor. Maybe we will have a full 266/333 FSB... who knows? But all is clear for a big announcement. I don't think we will have just a lame 1.2 Ghz with the same bus or an upgraded iPod. The sky is clear for the take off.
Compare favourably with top end athlons? is that it? Not Toast top end athlons? Are we mac users now so easily impressed? By the time apple actually ships the machines the wintel world will have moved on again. At that point exactly which athlons will it compare favourably against by the time you receive the newly ordered 'Power' Mac?<hr></blockquote>
Sorry but Athlon processor are hitting the wall. Did you see the real Mhz upgrade ? It's really bad. They're ready for the next gen, they cannot do more with this generation. They even can compete with the PIV anymore.
And so here we are... we WILL have Gx ! Maybe in a year maybe in 6 months, but it's a given.
ANd Apple will compete in video and 3D. RDF full blast !
[ 06-16-2002: Message edited by: jeromba ]</p>
<strong> If the G4 gained a DDR MPX bus and clocked as high as 1.5GHz, it would compare favorably with the top end Athlons available now. That would be a damn near doubling of performance overnight, and you'd call that a small step?
Compare favourably with top end athlons? is that it? Not Toast top end athlons? Are we mac users now so easily impressed? By the time apple actually ships the machines the wintel world will have moved on again. At that point exactly which athlons will it compare favourably against by the time you receive the newly ordered 'Power' Mac?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just a question, but just what do you need with such awsome power? Unless you are a 3-D designer or head programmer at Adobe what's the BFD? Pick up any mac from the Apple Store, stick a geforce 4 in it, and slap a gig of ram in it. It can handle anything
you might throw at it. I don't think a processor measuring contest is in order. That is saved for high school locker rooms or unix boards. This is a mac world, and I believe my mac has a bigger backside cache then yours. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> So what's the big deal? Which one of your PC buddies is picking on you so much that you have to have a bigger stick to hit them back with. Try a new approach. When they raise their stick, burn it off with the Toasty-7 napalm pack from marathon and then buy them a cheerwine.
I thought the magic was in owning a mac, not building the highest duplo tower.
The new IBM part we'll see at MWSF (and I am fairly confident IBM is behind the next gen PPC) will be an impressive performer.
Yet the G4 will continue to improve as it settles into the consumer and portable lines. The important distinction here is that Apple won't need MP in these lines, and will be able to have Motorola (or themselves) implement an on-chip DDR controller, since cache-coherency will no longer be an issue. The G4 in this form will be much like the P4 and Athlon in the sense that it will have a MUCH larger L2 cache (2x its current size) and may even gain RIO interconnects (this part is speculation), since Apple won't be using the MPX.
A second possibility is that Dorsal M is in fact an informed poster, in which case Apple may in fact pull some engineering feat to resolve the current bandwidth/MP issue (the issue is that an on-chip controller precludes MP, or comes at too high a price).
At any rate, I think you'll be quite happy with the performance of a G4 at 1.4 GHz, especially if they get some serious bandwidth in there.
But if top notch performance is what you crave, I recommend holding off until winter, when you'll be able to pick up the IBM part, the R300, as well as the next gen nVidia card.
And so here we are... we WILL have Gx ! Maybe in a year maybe in 6 months, but it's a given.
ANd Apple will compete in video and 3D. RDF full blast !<hr></blockquote>
what's more interesting is that AMD has stated that the Athlon is SOL WRT to SOI: especially considering that Moto and AMD have a process arrangement (wherein they share tech, but Moto leads the process). Did the partnership fall apart?
[quote]If the G4 gained a DDR MPX bus and clocked as high as 1.5GHz, it would compare favorably with the top end Athlons available now. That would be a damn near doubling of performance overnight, and you'd call that a small step?<hr></blockquote>
...
[quote]By the time apple actually ships the machines the wintel world will have moved on again. <hr></blockquote>
Moved on to where? To another 3-5% boost in performance that Intel/AMD have been shoveling out every few months for the past two years? The only thing that might result in a big boost for AMD's chips is the Hammer, and it's not due until next year. We're talking about what Apple might do in four weeks, so if Apple were to come out with something that matched current Athlon performance, how much could AMD immediately pull ahead? 10%? Are you really worried about such a paltry difference?
<strong>
Just a question, but just what do you need with such awsome power? Unless you are a 3-D designer or head programmer at Adobe what's the BFD? Pick up any mac from the Apple Store, stick a geforce 4 in it, and slap a gig of ram in it. It can handle anything
you might throw at it. I don't think a processor measuring contest is in order. That is saved for high school locker rooms or unix boards. This is a mac world, and I believe my mac has a bigger backside cache then yours. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> So what's the big deal? Which one of your PC buddies is picking on you so much that you have to have a bigger stick to hit them back with. Try a new approach. When they raise their stick, burn it off with the Toasty-7 napalm pack from marathon and then buy them a cheerwine.
I thought the magic was in owning a mac, not building the highest duplo tower.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't need the power - except in an ideal sense (ie a computer that boots immediately etc but we'd ALL love that!!). I do however need to counter the endless arguments from the wintel biased procurement and IT controllers where I work (just like everywhere else in the Uk I guess). We only have one powermac based suite in our centre now. Why? Becuase the powers that be switched to wintel left right and centre. Why? Because (according to them) "Macs don't use the latest technologies, they have low clock speeds and you can get all the software for PCs anyway. There is no way we can justify purchasing 60 machines running at 1Ghz for twice the price of windows machines running at 2Ghz."
This is the only argument they continually put forward. I know they're stupid and don't get it. But really its us that don't get it. We will never presuade them of the Mghz myth. Apple should look to dominating the Multimedia industries where it can rule. But even there, the last multimedia show I went to I counted 4 Macs - the rest were PCs or SGI boxes.
We have purchased over 150 computers recently - all wintel. Just imagine if all that cash was going into apple's coffers. . .
<strong>Moved on to where? To another 3-5% boost in performance that Intel/AMD have been shoveling out every few months for the past two years?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now that you say it - the Athlon XP was increasing it's speed by some 66 mhz at one step, right? It sounded more with the 1x00+ rating scheme though. I wonder how a 66 mhz speed boost on a G4 compares to an Athlong XP one.