Apple expected to unveil new smart home platform at WWDC - report

123468

Comments

  • Reply 101 of 150
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member

    "According to people familiar with the matter."

  • Reply 102 of 150
    rogifan wrote: »
    Sounds interesting. If Apple does go down this route, I hope they really invest in it and really push it. Not have it be something like Passbook or the MFI game controllers that haven't really taken off.
    nolamacguy wrote: »
    you can't really blame apple for third-party API initiatives.

    that being said -- there are a half-dozen different game controllers? and every major airline and venue ticketing system uses Passbook? not sure why thats a failure in your eyes...i use Passbook every time i travel and it's great.

    Obviously the first poster rides the bus and his local beer swilling establishment is a cash-only joint. ;)
  • Reply 103 of 150
    nos2unos2u Posts: 12member

    All I want for now is a light switch with a timer. And for the control of the timer to be on my phone. That's all the home automation I'll need. Then they can add to the iPhone an app for the garage door opener and a remote for the tv.

  • Reply 104 of 150
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

    http://www.solarroadways.com/intro.shtml


    Awesome!

    image

     

    image 

  • Reply 105 of 150
    taniwhataniwha Posts: 347member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post



    Chasing Google again then, gotta catch up /s




    To be accurate, Apple would have to have been thinking, designing, and engineering along these lines for at least a year, likely several to be ready to announce the effort next week. So Google's quite recent purchase of Nest amounts to Google attempting to buy their way into a game that Apple has already been playing at.

    If it comes to that, Google has been playing about with home automation for several years .. with no discernable results, but a lot of software development and concepts that they dropped again .. for whatever reason. The Nest purchase was, as far as I can recall the third iteration.

  • Reply 106 of 150
    I remember reading an article from around 1906-1908 that said the same thing about telephones.

    Yeah, "No self-respecting man would be caught dead talking to a box in the wall."
  • Reply 107 of 150
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I remember reading an article from around 1906-1908 that said the same thing about telephones.

    It's not like we were all smart enough to see a revolution coming. Back then, I thought there might be a revolution in opening your garage door, balancing your checkbook, keeping your recipes, that sort of thing. There are a million people who study markets and analyze economic trends, people who are more brilliant that I am, people who worked for companies like Digital Equipment and IBM and Hewlett-Packard. None of them foresaw what was going to happen, either.

    -- Steve Wozniak

    Perhaps not a great example as I don't think anyone ever called Woz a visionary. Don't get me wrong, he's a brilliant engineer but that's a very different thing.
  • Reply 108 of 150
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,472member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    The only role of the iBeacon is to advertise to the phones of its own existence at the physical location. Why do I need iBeacon to tell me I'm in front of the fridge when I'm in my kitchen? I guess if I were blind that would be useful but that still wouldn't mean that these location-based beacons need to be built into appliances themselves.



    What needs to happen are protocols that allow Bluetooth or WiFi to be used to send data to from connected devices locally and/or the internet so you can turn off/on, adjust, get warnings, etc. about various electronic devices in the home. iBeacons can't do any of that.

     

    There are two types of iBeacons - those that are "dumb" and only transmit and those that allow data transfer between your iPhone and the iBeacon.

     

    I don't need an iBeacon on my fridge, but an iBeacon in every room that automatically configures my iPhone depending on where I am is one application. There are lots of advanced remote controls that allow you to save multiple setups. You switch setups based on where you are (one for the home theatre in the living room and one for the TV or compact stereo on your bedroom, for example). With iBeacons your iPhone automatically gets configured for you whichever room you're in. Taking this even further, when I'm in the living room with my iPhone the TV is set up to show only my favorite channels and my recordings.

     

    There are other uses. Having your lights in your driveway/porch come on when you arrive at your house. Having TouchID pop up on your iPhone to unlock your front door as you walk up to it.

     

    Right now there are several protocols in use for home automation. Plus several proprietary ones. Everything from WiFI to LAN to BT to oldies like RS-232 serial or infrared. To make legacy products work Apple could create low-cost development kits which contain the iBeacon and an external interface. You place the iBeacon/Interface by your older model Denon receiver and suddenly it now works with your iPhone and integrates with other devices in your house. Hell, Apple doesn't even need to make the kits - there are already numerous companies making iBeacon development kits & tools. All Apple really needs is to define a standardized protocol/API so developers of these kits will ensure they work with Apple devices. It would also allow appliance manufacturers (for example) to integrate iBeacon into their products (just like audio companies make AirPlay compatible components).

     

    iBeacons/Bluetooth is cheaper than WiFi. It's a great solution to add connectivity to all sorts of devices without overloading your WiFi router with countless connections. Devices that need constant connections (or higher speed data) can use powerline networking to again free up the airwaves from numerous WiFi devices. I only want my laptop/iPhone/iPad on Wifi, not every device in my house.

  • Reply 109 of 150
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    There are two types of iBeacons - those that are "dumb" and only transmit and those that allow data transfer between your iPhone and the iBeacon.

    I don't need an iBeacon on my fridge, but an iBeacon in every room that automatically configures my iPhone depending on where I am is one application. There are lots of advanced remote controls that allow you to save multiple setups. You switch setups based on where you are (one for the home theatre in the living room and one for the TV or compact stereo on your bedroom, for example). With iBeacons your iPhone automatically gets configured for you whichever room you're in. Taking this even further, when I'm in the living room with my iPhone the TV is set up to show only my favorite channels and my recordings.

    There are other uses. Having your lights in your driveway/porch come on when you arrive at your house. Having TouchID pop up on your iPhone to unlock your front door as you walk up to it.

    Right now there are several protocols in use for home automation. Plus several proprietary ones. Everything from WiFI to LAN to BT to oldies like RS-232 serial or infrared. To make legacy products work Apple could create low-cost development kits which contain the iBeacon and an external interface. You place the iBeacon/Interface by your older model Denon receiver and suddenly it now works with your iPhone and integrates with other devices in your house. Hell, Apple doesn't even need to make the kits - there are already numerous companies making iBeacon development kits & tools. All Apple really needs is to define a standardized protocol/API so developers of these kits will ensure they work with Apple devices. It would also allow appliance manufacturers (for example) to integrate iBeacon into their products (just like audio companies make AirPlay compatible components).

    iBeacons/Bluetooth is cheaper than WiFi. It's a great solution to add connectivity to all sorts of devices without overloading your WiFi router with countless connections. Devices that need constant connections (or higher speed data) can use powerline networking to again free up the airwaves from numerous WiFi devices. I only want my laptop/iPhone/iPad on Wifi, not every device in my house.

    I don't see why any of that has to be iBeacons and not simply Bluetooth that causes a system to react in a certain way when a connection is made, like getting close enough to your house that lights turn on.

    Most of the uses I see would have nothing to do with your location, but rather being able to let you know if there is an issue or control your devices remotely via iCloud. This would not utilize iBeacons protocols at all.
  • Reply 110 of 150
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

     
    iBeacons/Bluetooth is cheaper than WiFi. It's a great solution to add connectivity to all sorts of devices without overloading your WiFi router with countless connections. Devices that need constant connections (or higher speed data) can use powerline networking to again free up the airwaves from numerous WiFi devices. I only want my laptop/iPhone/iPad on Wifi, not every device in my house.


    How is an iBeacon going to let me confirm that I did not leave the garage door open when I left for work? Or open it remotely for the UPS driver to place my package inside, then close it again. I don't really want automation as much as I want control.

  • Reply 111 of 150
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    mstone wrote: »
     
    <p style="font:12px Helvetica;margin:0px 0px 0px 0px;">http://www.solarroadways.com/intro.shtml</p>
    Awesome!

    It is awesome ... for some use cases.

    But, when you realize that many places in the country have cold winters with ice and snow. Because of that, roads are quite different in those places -- no reflectors in the road surface (center lines, lane edges, fire hydrant locations, etc) no imbedded traffic sensors in the road surfaces, etc, -- nothing that could be ripped up by a snow plow. Then, there's the whole infrastructure in place to plow, salt and maintain these roads -- with a vested interest in the status quo.

    The video asserts that the roads can be heated (at what cost) to prevent the need for plowing.

    I'm not saying that there isn't practical application for this kind of tech in some places -- but I doubt that it has as universal applicability as the video suggests.

    But there are some places like Downtown Phoenix which have become heat islands -- they could benefit greatly from this tech ... 'cept during monsoon season when the roads are awash with water.

    Ha! I remember one really wet monsoon season in the Tucson foothills. After a really hard rain one afternoon, there was so much water in the ground that it drove the tarantulas out of their nests -- they headed for the high ground -- the roads. Never saw anything like it -- the roads were literally crawling with spiders ... Really slick and almost impossible to drive anywhere ... better than a snow day!
  • Reply 112 of 150
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





    There are [power line control] switches and outlets currently available at reasonable prices. Also there are warts that plug into an existing outlet, then you plug the device into the wart.



    So it is possible to bring existing, non-smart, devices under control without having to replace/upgrade all your lamps, appliances at once.



    The big payback for homes is, likely, HVAC monitoring and control -- and that's doable now, with, say, a 3-5 year ROI for the cost of devices and installation.

    Indeed there are devices available.  I have been using low level home automation with X10 and now Insteon for more than a decade.  I now can control most of my lighting with my iPhone from anywhere via Indigo.  I can also view security cameras on the phone.  There are two distinct markets for home automation and Apple.  One is the retrofit like I have done.  it is sometimes messy, but it works.  However, it is not for people who don't like to fiddle around with tech gizmos.  There are problems and there always will be.  The second market is new homes.  This brings the control of devices to a much higher level and is very expensive.  I know of at least two people who got all excited by the idea of automating their new homes and then dropped the plans once they found out how much it cost.  If Apple will bring their typical "slickness" to home automation they might be on to something.  I also think any move by Apple into this arena will be a slow and longer term bet on their part.

     

    This biggest problem with HA is the lack of any real standard.  Light switched, sockets, light, fans, motors appliances etc all adhere to an electrical standard and a mechanical standard for connections etc.  Someone, hopefully Apple, needs to bring a similar standard to HA and connected devices.  The Internet of Thing will be a colossal mess unless it gets standardized early on.

  • Reply 113 of 150
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

     
    It's not like we were all smart enough to see a revolution coming. Back then, I thought there might be a revolution in opening your garage door, balancing your checkbook, keeping your recipes, that sort of thing. There are a million people who study markets and analyze economic trends, people who are more brilliant that I am, people who worked for companies like Digital Equipment and IBM and Hewlett-Packard. None of them foresaw what was going to happen, either.



    -- Steve Wozniak



    Perhaps not a great example as I don't think anyone ever called Woz a visionary. Don't get me wrong, he's a brilliant engineer but that's a very different thing.

     

    The telephone in 1906-1908 was not so rudimentary anymore. It was basically in its final form for a few years to come. For someone at that point to say that it has no future would have been the same as someone looking at an Apple computer or and IBM Jr. and saying the same thing.

     

    I can fully appreciate someone looking at a mainframe from the 1960s and not being able to see a use for it at home.

     

    ... or maybe I just read your comment wrong.  lol

  • Reply 114 of 150
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

    But, when you realize that many places in the country have cold winters with ice and snow. Because of that, roads are quite different in those places -- no reflectors in the road surface (center lines, lane edges, fire hydrant locations, etc) no imbedded traffic sensors in the road surfaces, etc, -- nothing that could be ripped up by a snow plow. Then, there's the whole infrastructure in place to plow, salt and maintain these roads -- with a vested interest in the status quo.

    I hear ya. I remember years ago I was driving down PCH in Laguna at night and there are crosswalks with no traffic signals, You are just supposed to stop. I almost didn't see these young people trying to cross the street and I was so thankful that I finally saw them in time. When I got home I called my dad who was in Colorado and told him of my idea to have lights in the road to flash when people were trying to cross. He immediately said that will never work in Colorado because of snow plows.

     

    Now, all over Southern California they have flashing crosswalks including the one that I was talking about in Laguna. They say in the video that they have solved that issue so I don't see why it won't work.

     

    I especially like the heated road surface, then you don't need snow plows. The cost is easily absorbed by the fact that the US alone could be powering the entire planet with excess energy. I don't think the cost of heating the roadways in the north is that much of a reach, well except perhaps in the northeast where the trash, paving and snow plowing industries are controlled mostly by the guys with those crooked noses. What was I thinking? Forget about it!

  • Reply 115 of 150
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    mstone wrote: »
    .... northeast where the trash, paving and snow plowing industries are controlled mostly by the guys with those crooked noses. What was I thinking? Forget about it!

    You watch way too much HBO. :lol:
  • Reply 116 of 150
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





    It is awesome ... for some use cases.



    But, when you realize that many places in the country have cold winters with ice and snow. Because of that, roads are quite different in those places -- no reflectors in the road surface (center lines, lane edges, fire hydrant locations, etc) no imbedded traffic sensors in the road surfaces, etc, -- nothing that could be ripped up by a snow plow. Then, there's the whole infrastructure in place to plow, salt and maintain these roads -- with a vested interest in the status quo.



    The video asserts that the roads can be heated (at what cost) to prevent the need for plowing.



    I'm not saying that there isn't practical application for this kind of tech in some places -- but I doubt that it has as universal applicability as the video suggests.



    But there are some places like Downtown Phoenix which have become heat islands -- they could benefit greatly from this tech ... 'cept during monsoon season when the roads are awash with water.



    Ha! I remember one really wet monsoon season in the Tucson foothills. After a really hard rain one afternoon, there was so much water in the ground that it drove the tarantulas out of their nests -- they headed for the high ground -- the roads. Never saw anything like it -- the roads were literally crawling with spiders ... Really slick and almost impossible to drive anywhere ... better than a snow day!

     

    I think that, more than anything, these are concepts that need to have all the bugs ironed out. It's going to take a while. Certainly not within the next 20 years.

  • Reply 117 of 150
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    mstone wrote: »
     
    [CONTENTEMBED=/t/180046/apple-expected-to-unveil-new-smart-home-platform-at-wwdc-report/40#post_2539797 layout=inline]iBeacons/Bluetooth is cheaper than WiFi. It's a great solution to add connectivity to all sorts of devices without overloading your WiFi router with countless connections. Devices that need constant connections (or higher speed data) can use powerline networking to again free up the airwaves from numerous WiFi devices. I only want my laptop/iPhone/iPad on Wifi, not every device in my house.[/CONTENTEMBED]
    How is an iBeacon going to let me confirm that I did not leave the garage door open when I left for work? Or open it remotely for the UPS driver to place my package inside, then close it again. I don't really want automation as much as I want control.

    iBeacon is a word that is [mis]applied to several, varying capabilities.

    But there are some devices that take advantage of Apple's iBeacon standard -- but are capable of doing a lot more sensing and yes, even initiate control using WiFi, Cell, power line, BTLE, etc.

    A good example of this is the $25 TI SensorTag:

    1000

    This device has the following sensors built in:

    2.5 Sensors
    2.5.1 Contactless IR Temperature Sensor
    2.5.2 Accelerometer
    2.5.3 Humidity Sensor
    2.5.4 Magnetometer/Compass
    2.5.5 Barometric Pressure Sensor
    2.5.6 Gyroscope

    http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/SensorTag_User_Guide

    All of these can be accessed via an iBeacon-like app with BTLE extensions.

    If you take the time to peruse their docs, you will find it is a quite capable device/app.

    Certainly, WiFi or straight [non-iBeacon] protocols may have superior application for static and/or anticipated situations such as your, afore-mentioned garage door.

    But what about mobile uses, around the home -- it may be better to install a more inexpensive iBeacon device to detect breaking windows, unexpected window or door openings, unexpected temperature.humidity in the greenhouse, etc.

    I suspect the winners will deploy several technologies to satisfy home-automation needs.
  • Reply 118 of 150
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    welshdog wrote: »
    There are [power line control] switches and outlets currently available at reasonable prices. Also there are warts that plug into an existing outlet, then you plug the device into the wart.


    So it is possible to bring existing, non-smart, devices under control without having to replace/upgrade all your lamps, appliances at once.


    The big payback for homes is, likely, HVAC monitoring and control -- and that's doable now, with, say, a 3-5 year ROI for the cost of devices and installation.
    Indeed there are devices available.  I have been using low level home automation with X10 and now Insteon for more than a decade.  I now can control most of my lighting with my iPhone from anywhere via Indigo.  I can also view security cameras on the phone.  There are two distinct markets for home automation and Apple.  One is the retrofit like I have done.  it is sometimes messy, but it works.  However, it is not for people who don't like to fiddle around with tech gizmos.  There are problems and there always will be.  The second market is new homes.  This brings the control of devices to a much higher level and is very expensive.  I know of at least two people who got all excited by the idea of automating their new homes and then dropped the plans once they found out how much it cost.  If Apple will bring their typical "slickness" to home automation they might be on to something.  I also think any move by Apple into this arena will be a slow and longer term bet on their part.

    This biggest problem with HA is the lack of any real standard.  Light switched, sockets, light, fans, motors appliances etc all adhere to an electrical standard and a mechanical standard for connections etc.  Someone, hopefully Apple, needs to bring a similar standard to HA and connected devices.  The Internet of Thing will be a colossal mess unless it gets standardized early on.

    Ha! I can remember as far back as 1978 when I saw a Mountain Computer solution for the Apple ][. Their system included software, a microphone peripheral card, a clock peripheral card and an I/O peripheral card that could control a device.

    1) You trained the software to recognize voice commands.

    2) You set the software to respond with certain actions when recognizing commands from the microphone or clock

    3) The software would issue the necessary commands to the I/O card to control the target device.

    The dealers had a demo kit that included the above plus a miniature garage door [in frame] and a small light bulb.

    After a few minutes of training ... "Open garage door";  "Turn on light";  "Turn off light";  "Close garage door".

    AIR, the Mountain Computer package retailed for about $300-400 ($1,000-$3,000 in today's dollars).


    That was 36 years ago! Most of today's iBeacon devices have ARM APUs and communication capability far superior to that old Apple ][.
  • Reply 119 of 150
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,472member
    mstone wrote: »
    How is an iBeacon going to let me confirm that I did not leave the garage door open when I left for work? Or open it remotely for the UPS driver to place my package inside, then close it again. I don't really want automation as much as I want control.
    It won't do the remote checking or opening for the UPS guy. That's what traditional connections are for (like power line networking, which works without having to put WiFi in the garage).

    However, an iBeacon will detect when your iPhone leaves the garage and can close your garage door if you forget. Likewise an iBeacon could lock your front door as soon as you leave the house.
  • Reply 120 of 150
    stefstef Posts: 87member
    Nearables connected to farables, that is sensors connected to servers.
Sign In or Register to comment.