Where I live was a new estate in 2006. It took over 6 years for TomTom to update their maps to show the new roads. Deliveries and friends visiting was always a problem if they used TomTom as they would be sent to roads that no longer existed. And yes, I tried informing TomTom more than once.
This is great and all, especially in light of the antics that take place on Google Maps. But this isn't the problem. The problem is that practically nothing is in the database (it can't find any store within 2km of me).
And that database is closed. At least Google has Places.
This was a golden opportunity for Apple to make a single, open, free POI system that everyone used.
[quote name="hagar" url="/t/181336/apples-maps-team-calling-businesses-to-resolve-user-reported-address-issues#post_2563134"]They should update their search algoritmes. Ever heard of fuzzy search, Apple? If you don't have the exact spelling of the street name and city name (down to spaces!), it never finds anything[/quote
Yeah, try:
st peters --> near st louis
st peters rome --> rome ny
st peters rome italy --> drops 8 pins (all wrong) and highlights an inn ~= 1 mile from target
st peters church --> near st louis
st peters church rome --> rome ny
st peters church rome italy --> doesn't move anywhere (even if the map is showing rome italy)
st peters basilica --> bingo
... seems you can misspell [I]basilica[/I] and it still finds it
They should update their search algoritmes. Ever heard of fuzzy search, Apple? If you don't have the exact spelling of the street name and city name (down to spaces!), it never finds anything
Maps Spotlight (may be renamed) is coming, probably in 2015, along with what amounts to a global search engine that initially will work only within MacOS and iOS, but will ultimately be web-based as well as people make their browser homepage iCloud.com or similar. This service may eventually expand to include all users (not just Apple device owners) as a way to get others into the Apple fold. At this point, Google will finally realize that the thermonuclear war has truly begun.
I've been saying for a while that the 'delays' in updates are likely because Apple would insist on verifying all reports so no one can prank the system. Seems I was right.
What might be better, at least for bigger companies etc, might be a way for them to proactively update their information. They close a shop or move it or build one, they can tell Apple directly and get it fixed right away. Same perhaps with road closures etc from governments so that driving directions can compensate.
Try living in the UK - the POI content on Apple Maps is appalling.
Unlike Google, whose worldwide database seems pretty comprehensive, Apple seems intent on treating anyone who doesn't live in North America as a second-class citizen.
I think Google will continue to be the map leader for two main reasons. One, they can use their search data and apply it to maps, and two, they can use their Street View data and apply that to maps as well. They have all the data they need. Apple has none of that.
Google Maps' public transit directions isn't entirely reliable either. I was recently in London and it gave me roundabout directions to go from one place to another. It had me walk, take a bus, then hop on the tube when a direct tube connection with one transfer and less walking overall was available. This type of error happened too often as to make the transit routing service untrustworthy, and if you can't trust a routing service then it's useless.
Google Maps is still better overall than Apple Maps but let's not make it sound like it's infallible and head and shoulders above the latter.
Maps are relatively easy. Most roads have been around for decades... but even newer roads are listed somewhere. Every state has a department of transportation... so they should know the status of every road. I would imagine other countries have similar departments.
In southern California, before Internet mapping, there was a company named Thomas Bros. Maps. They published new maps each year for every county and every government vehicle was required to have the most current version. I think they are out of business now. Their headquarters in Irvine closed. Anyway they indeed listed every single street, highway, alleyway and public building, but they surely had to contact every little city, every county, and the state, and the information wasn't digital either. That is a tremendous amount of work. But it can be done.
Thomas Bros. charged a lot of money for those books, and their business depended on extreme accuracy because the police and fire departments relied on them. Apple doesn't seem to have that sense of responsibility or urgency, and their revenue stream is not at all affected by the lack of map accuracy. I'm not sure what mapping the police use today but I'd be willing to bet it isn't Apple.
Amazing how people who know nothing about how POIs are collected, updated and verified can spew about how "simple" it is to add them and keep them accurate. Tom Tom and Navteq have been doing this for years and are still not perfect and will never be. Blindly trusting user inputs and corrections, as some suggest, is just stupid. People are idiots, malicious or both. They absolutely need to be validated. I love how one writer wrote that every state has a department of transportation, so it should be easy to get info. States only control the major state highways. Everything else, including the local info that people really need are controlled by the counties and towns. That includes the naming of streets. So, that is literally thousands of government departments to gather data from and hope that it is accurate. Even then, most do not store this information digitally. Another writer suggested that tax records be used to confirm business addresses. Really?! How many business addresses and DBAs are the same as the location and name of the business that customers actually go to.
I own a business and my business address and phone number that are filed by the city, state, and federal government are not my actual business address or phone number. It is a fairly common practice to have that info be your home address or in some cases your attorney's address (think forming your buisness in another state for tax/legal purposes). Or multiple locations of a buisness having a common address so all tax/legal contacts are in one place.
Not to mention that it would make me feel very uncomfortable of goverment agencies selling my buisness contact details to 3rd party businesses.
What Apple should do if they really want to go mainstream with their Maps is create a functionality similar to Google Places. where a user can submit a new buisness to the database and as a buisness owner I can verify ownership either by submitting a form of adding a bit of code to the website so that I now have control of what content is shown on my business listing. This would allow for the POI database to be expanded rapidly and would cut down on Apple's human verification factor.
Lol... that was me... up late and tired suggesting silly things like the Department of Transportation and Tax Records. Sorry
My point was... it there not one place that already has this information?
Where did Google get it?
I know Google has cars taking pictures of nearly every road in the world. Do they have more people knocking on every business door asking for their information?
Or is it because of something like Google Places where it's up to the business owner to manually submit their information?
After some research on the matter... I found some suggestions for getting your business added to Apple Maps:
Factual
Localeze
Acxiom
OpenStreetMap
Yelp
You can submit your business information to those companies and they can help you get listed in Apple Maps. I guess that's the solution?
I think Google will continue to be the map leader for two main reasons. One, they can use their search data and apply it to maps, and two, they can use their Street View data and apply that to maps as well. They have all the data they need. Apple has none of that.
Apple has put itself in a serious bind with its absence from the search business. You can never be truly independent without your own search engine.
About time. The Yelp POI location data has been nothing short of an embarrassment, and the decision to rely on it was disgraceful.
If Apple wants to be in the map business (and it seems they do) then they need to belly up to the bar and do a full court press on their POI data. It's time to them take some accountability for this and get it fixed.
I agree 100%.
I would just add that they should have done this from the beginning. Yes, it's expensive to collect good data. And it's expensive because you have to actually pay human beings a decent wage to do it -- you can't just write a clever program or deploy a robot. But Apple can clearly afford it, and given the scale they're operating at and the importance of Maps to customers, it's clearly a good investment.
As time goes by, I think the evidence is building that getting rid of Scott Forstall has been a big positive for Apple, and that Tim Cook might be a very good CEO.
I continue to rely on Google Maps rather than Apple Maps especially when traveling outside of the US. I find Google Maps to have a much quicker response time and more accurate data compared to Apple Maps. Apple Maps has a long way to go to be on par with Google Maps. I also find Apple Maps not very intelligent is rerouting capability when I take alternate routes compared to what is suggested by Apple Maps. Google Maps quickly calculates new routes once I deviate from the suggested routes.
My daughter bought a new house on a "lane" that is part of her HOA, not a city street. The city/county changed the name a couple times during her buying process causing all sorts of problems. The county assessor has the correct name and location yet the mapping companies don't seem to get street information from them. I talked to a person at a city government office and she had to contact someone else before everything finally was fixed but said the mapping companies don't update their databases except (maybe) twice a year. I don't believe there is a single source for mapping information although the assessor's office should be the most accurate information.
Apple's Map app is bereft of places. It seems they do pull most of their info from Yelp. But , I think there should be a simple and clear path to adding and fixing data directly within zither Map app.
Apple has put itself in a serious bind with its absence from the search business. You can never be truly independent without your own search engine.
Independence has its benefits, but sometimes working with partners is more practical. If Apple wanted to, they could get white label Bing search just like Yahoo does. Building ones own search engine from scratch is a decade long undertaking, just like Apple Maps will end up being before it will be considered truly professional grade.
Comments
I was pretty disappointed when in Glacier National Park, Alaska a few weeks ago
That would be Glacier Bay National Park, Alaska.
Glacier National Park is in Montana.
(Pedantry abounds!)
This is great and all, especially in light of the antics that take place on Google Maps. But this isn't the problem. The problem is that practically nothing is in the database (it can't find any store within 2km of me).
And that database is closed. At least Google has Places.
This was a golden opportunity for Apple to make a single, open, free POI system that everyone used.
Yeah, try:
st peters --> near st louis
st peters rome --> rome ny
st peters rome italy --> drops 8 pins (all wrong) and highlights an inn ~= 1 mile from target
st peters church --> near st louis
st peters church rome --> rome ny
st peters church rome italy --> doesn't move anywhere (even if the map is showing rome italy)
st peters basilica --> bingo
... seems you can misspell [I]basilica[/I] and it still finds it
I reported all these last week!
Citation?
What might be better, at least for bigger companies etc, might be a way for them to proactively update their information. They close a shop or move it or build one, they can tell Apple directly and get it fixed right away. Same perhaps with road closures etc from governments so that driving directions can compensate.
Try living in the UK - the POI content on Apple Maps is appalling.
Unlike Google, whose worldwide database seems pretty comprehensive, Apple seems intent on treating anyone who doesn't live in North America as a second-class citizen.
I think Google will continue to be the map leader for two main reasons. One, they can use their search data and apply it to maps, and two, they can use their Street View data and apply that to maps as well. They have all the data they need. Apple has none of that.
Google Maps is still better overall than Apple Maps but let's not make it sound like it's infallible and head and shoulders above the latter.
Maps are relatively easy. Most roads have been around for decades... but even newer roads are listed somewhere. Every state has a department of transportation... so they should know the status of every road. I would imagine other countries have similar departments.
In southern California, before Internet mapping, there was a company named Thomas Bros. Maps. They published new maps each year for every county and every government vehicle was required to have the most current version. I think they are out of business now. Their headquarters in Irvine closed. Anyway they indeed listed every single street, highway, alleyway and public building, but they surely had to contact every little city, every county, and the state, and the information wasn't digital either. That is a tremendous amount of work. But it can be done.
Thomas Bros. charged a lot of money for those books, and their business depended on extreme accuracy because the police and fire departments relied on them. Apple doesn't seem to have that sense of responsibility or urgency, and their revenue stream is not at all affected by the lack of map accuracy. I'm not sure what mapping the police use today but I'd be willing to bet it isn't Apple.
Lol... that was me... up late and tired suggesting silly things like the Department of Transportation and Tax Records. Sorry
My point was... it there not one place that already has this information?
Where did Google get it?
I know Google has cars taking pictures of nearly every road in the world. Do they have more people knocking on every business door asking for their information?
Or is it because of something like Google Places where it's up to the business owner to manually submit their information?
After some research on the matter... I found some suggestions for getting your business added to Apple Maps:
Factual
Localeze
Acxiom
OpenStreetMap
Yelp
You can submit your business information to those companies and they can help you get listed in Apple Maps. I guess that's the solution?
Accurate information has been hard to come by since the apes took over.
Apple has put itself in a serious bind with its absence from the search business. You can never be truly independent without your own search engine.
About time. The Yelp POI location data has been nothing short of an embarrassment, and the decision to rely on it was disgraceful.
If Apple wants to be in the map business (and it seems they do) then they need to belly up to the bar and do a full court press on their POI data. It's time to them take some accountability for this and get it fixed.
I agree 100%.
I would just add that they should have done this from the beginning. Yes, it's expensive to collect good data. And it's expensive because you have to actually pay human beings a decent wage to do it -- you can't just write a clever program or deploy a robot. But Apple can clearly afford it, and given the scale they're operating at and the importance of Maps to customers, it's clearly a good investment.
As time goes by, I think the evidence is building that getting rid of Scott Forstall has been a big positive for Apple, and that Tim Cook might be a very good CEO.
That's a lot of calls. If they just took my original idea of fitting UPS/FedEX with iPads, we would have continued accuracy.
My daughter bought a new house on a "lane" that is part of her HOA, not a city street. The city/county changed the name a couple times during her buying process causing all sorts of problems. The county assessor has the correct name and location yet the mapping companies don't seem to get street information from them. I talked to a person at a city government office and she had to contact someone else before everything finally was fixed but said the mapping companies don't update their databases except (maybe) twice a year. I don't believe there is a single source for mapping information although the assessor's office should be the most accurate information.
Did you try looking on your zither?
Sorry, you are correct, my bad.
Apple has put itself in a serious bind with its absence from the search business. You can never be truly independent without your own search engine.
Independence has its benefits, but sometimes working with partners is more practical. If Apple wanted to, they could get white label Bing search just like Yahoo does. Building ones own search engine from scratch is a decade long undertaking, just like Apple Maps will end up being before it will be considered truly professional grade.