So things that cost 100x more than something else is exactly the same?
Yep.
Or maybe you think Apple left NeXT products on sale after the purchase.
Beats is different. The other companies that Apple bought were assimulated into the Apple brand. With Beats they are keeping the brand name, they are not renaming the headphones Apple. Big difference.
Now that you've suggested that transmitting audio over Bluetooth is the way to go, I find it harder to accept your earlier endorsement of the Beats headphones. Your standard for acceptable audio quality may be somewhat more forgiving than that of more critical listeners.
Ah yes, CNET. The first source I check when evaluating an AUDIO product.
(Just poking ya in the ribs )
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
"Solo 2 may not win audiophile hearts and ears, but for its intended audience -- namely, folks who are looking for a fast, exciting headphone with lots of high-quality bass -- this is an excellent on-ear headphones"
Translation: "They don't sound good, but sound quality is not why people buy Beats. They buy them to be seen wearing Beats and heard going BMM BMMM BMM!" (BTW, I've never heard the term "fast" used to describe an audio transducer… any idea what the author meant by that?)
PC Mag is not particularly noted for sonic evaluation expertise either, is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
"The Beats Solo 2 sounds and feels like one of the least overpriced options from Beats, which normally prices its headphones at a premium. I suppose they could be sold for a bit less than $200, but even at that price, the Solo 2's comfortable, well-made design delivers thunderous lows without a hint of distortion."
HA HA HA HAAA! Seriously? THAT'S an "endorsement?" Talk about damning with faint praise!
Translation: "They go BOOM BOOM BOOM real good. Even though the price is still a rip-off, it's somewhat LESS of a rip-off than… well, any other Beats product…" Any value assessment, either positive or negative, assumes you don't look at any other brand on the planet!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
Personally I took a look at these at BestBuy today and they do look and feel great. There build quality seem much better than the Solo1 which felt extremely cheap. I understand the need for wanting great bass. For my personal home theater I went with better bass instead of accuracy. I'm not an audiophile so I'd rather have heart pounding bass for watching movies than speaker that have limited base but are extremely accurate. I guess the same thing could be said for music.
That's fine. I have no quarrel with that. But when you say "Beats are great!" that's misleading, because they're NOT great… they are definitively INaccurate. Apparently on purpose.
Then there's what makes a $100 pair of headphones sell for >$200...
Now that you've suggested that transmitting audio over Bluetooth is the way to go, I find it harder to accept your earlier endorsement of the Beats headphones. Your standard for acceptable audio quality may be somewhat more forgiving than that of more critical listeners.
You misunderstood, "Plug in speakers are done" is a "trash talking" phrase from the first ad... Hence the smiley. Go watch it.
Regarding my standards for high end audio, they are actually quite high. I use an Anthem pre-amp, Anthem amplifiers, some Paradigm speakers, some JM-Labs speakers and three Velodyne DD subs in three zones. I have a Sennheiser HD-650 but I plan to buy a Beats Solo2 soon.
?It's OK to appreciate good sound but you can't go around criticizing everything because then you miss all the fun.
You misunderstood, "Plug in speakers are done" is a "trash talking" phrase from the first ad... Hence the smiley. Go watch it. Regarding my standards for high end audio, they are actually quite high. I use an Anthem pre-amp, Anthem amplifiers, some Paradigm speakers, some JM-Labs speakers and three Velodyne DD subs in three zones. I have a Sennheiser HD-650 but I plan to buy a Beats Solo2 soon.
?It's OK to appreciate good sound but you can't go around criticizing everything because then you miss all the fun. The Beats Solo2 sounds very good it is very cool.
Sorry but Lorin is right, I would normally be the first one to come to your rescue as the people in the board can defiantly be overly snobby towards products but in this case I get it. My children begged me for a a pair of Beats Solo 2's for Christmas, shortly after the New Years they both broke, one had a blown speaker from crappy techno music and the others cable had frayed, which isn't the first time that had happened with a pair of earphones from Beats in this house, I had a pair of in-ears that lasted 4 months before the cable started to break in 3 different places, just cheap crap. Sound quality, no where near as good as the price suggests they'll be, especislly when compared to decent headphones like my Bowers and Wilkins P5's or my newly aquired Aedle VK-1 Headphone for the same price. Only when paired with a decent headphone amplifier like the FiiO E12 do the Beats start to sound good but that's an additional150.00.
Nope, I don't get it, especially when there are just so many great headphones on the market right now. Also why would you want to own something that everyone has,have you ever counted how many you see in a dsy, it's staggering, almost every kid on the street has one now, buy something unique. You should really check out the Aedle Vk-1's, Bang and Olfusen H6 or Bowers and Wilkins P5 any of those three would also turn heads and they sound amazing. If you do buy the Beats because it is a fashion statement that you just can't live without, then don't forget a good headphone amplifier as it's almost a necessities.
You gotta be more critical of these reviews. Remember, in most cases they're appearing on sites that are wooing Beats as an advertiser. They won't ever be openly critical, but the real story is usually there if you look carefully. Here's how I'd respond to the review author:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
"You gotta hand it to Beats, the company knows how to make beautiful headphones. The Solo² are some of the most attractive smaller-cup earphones I've seen."
Cool! How do they sound?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
"Beats has done a great job with the color and paint finish on the Solo². We received a sample in gray — which really looks more like a slate blue — that are just stunning. The paint is glossy, but at least in this color, they are not fingerprint magnets."
Yeah, but they're a listening device -- fingerprints aren't really my primary concern. How do they SOUND?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
"In fact, if I'm being honest, the Studio Wireless are my current favorite Bluetooth over-ear headphones.
Favourite BLUETOOTH headphones. Like my favourite diesel-powered race car. They're simply the best of the worst, since Bluetooth is a terrible, terrible thing to do to a perfectly innocent audio signal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
"The truth is, you can get some very nice headphones for $200. To be sure, they won't be as attractive or fashionable as these Beats"
Dood, they're an AUDIO device, not a prom dress! HOW DO THEY SOUND?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
"However, if you want something that will sound good — especially for hip-hop and dubstep
Woah, stop right there. "Sound good" is something that SHOULD be determinable objectively... how can there be an "especially?" Good means as close to the sound of the recording as possible without adding anything or taking anything away. If some kinds of music sound better than others, something is wrong. Very wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
— and look fashionable, the Solo² fit the bill."
Yeah, okay, I'm seeing the trend here. Beats aren't really primarily about sound, they're costume jewelry. They're for the kids with the one-note subs in their car that don't reproduce any melodic content but rather just go BMMM and swamp the rest of the spectrum. They like that, but don't worry, they'll grow out of it. Everyone does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
"Last fall, Beats introduced redesigned versions of the Beats Studio and Studio Wireless over-ear headphones, engineered for better sound. I got a review pair of the Studio Wireless Bluetooth headphones earlier this year and I must say, I was blown away by the difference in quality compared to the Monster-era Beats Studio model."
What I read there is "The new models are not as horrid as the old ones." Again, damning with faint praise.
I'm probably overstating my feelings about Beats. It obviously doesn't matter to me one way or the other if other people like them. I like to think of myself as being more pragmatic about consumer audio than most audio engineers, but it still drives me crazy when people describe products they bought primarily for reasons other than sound quality by saying "It sounds great!" At least this reviewer was honest!
The only reason why I defend Beats is because the unreasonable hate and vile thrown at the brand here. There really is no good reason to do so.
They make good quality headphones that cost more because of the style factor. I see no reason why that should breed all these hateful comments about the brand.
Not sure I'd agree with you on good quality. But they make a style certain people like, got recording artists and sports stars to be seen with them and charge a lot for them. And for some people the more expensive something is the better they think it is.
But as I've said before I don't think Apple bought Beats for the headphones. But I do think the only way they could justify the $3B price tag was because the headphones are a money maker. No way is Beats streaming music service worth that much. And shit, if Steve Jobs was only worth $400M no way in hell Jimmy Iovine and Dr Dre are worth $3B (and who knows how much involvement they'll have or how long they'll stick around).
The question that's still unanswered (for me at least) is why Cue and Cook felt these guys, this music service was worth so much. What's Jimmy going to do that Apple couldn't do? Or couldn't have done for a much smaller price tag?
As much as I love reading those words (I don't think I've ever read or heard that sentence before!), to be fair I wasn't actually criticizing the Beats product. I was commenting on the use of Bluetooth as an audio transmission medium. I'm not saying I disagree with you, just that I didn't actually say what you credit me with saying.
Even the posts in which I openly challenge the positive reviews of the Beats product, what I'm actually criticizing is the review itself, not necessarily the product. My point was that the supposedly "positive" reviews didn't really give the reader much reason to be interested in the product beyond its role as a fashion accessory, and if the comments they published were the best reasons they could come up with to recommend Beats, it gives the impression that there isn't much to praise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
[...] Bowers and Wilkins [...]
Still waiting to hear a B&W product that sucks. Obviously some are better than others, but EVERYTHING they make is at least "decent."
The cans you mention (P5) are excellent. So are the C5, for those who prefer buds.
Looks great! Sound great as well? I'd presume so, but will check them out as I'm in the market for new over the ear phones for home use and new in-ear phones as the ones from Apple are kaput. Well, the 'remote' is kaput.
If you don't get a press release from Apple you don't think something is happening no matter how much evidence there is.
Yes, run along to your little fantasyland where all rumors are true and all fact is false if you don’t agree with it. No one else here cares.
Do you think Apple is coming out with the iPhone6 or do you think they may not since they have not had a press release or event announcing it yet?
Thanks for the strawman. When you have evidence of Apple retaining the various Beats’ product lines in their current forms, let us know. You won’t. Because you don’t.
Comments
I fear that it might be... but then this is what I expected anyway from an in-house team.
Hoping it isn't.
Folks, Apple is growing and changing and I think for the better.
Some people misunderstand this ad because they don't understand the personality of the Pills.
Apple bought the Pills because of what they are and Apple will not and should not change their characters.
Perhaps these videos will help introduce them... Plug in speakers are done.
Folks, Apple is growing and changing and I think for the better.
Some people misunderstand this ad because they don't understand the personality of the Pills.
Apple bought the Pills because of what they are and Apple will not and should not change their characters.
Perhaps this video will help introduce them... Plug in speakers are done.
I understand it just fine... and it's still shit that cheapens Apple's brand..
Despite doing exactly that to every single other product from every other company they have purchased.
Despite doing exactly that to every single other product from every other company they have purchased.
Yes. That's correct! None of the other products cost $3 Billion.
Fans are passionate about both Apple & Beats, it may take time for some folks to adjust but it will be awesome in the long term.
Beats' value will increase by 10 X now that this deal is done.
So?
Except Beats no longer has value. It’s Apple now.
Stop being crusty old men. I mean really.
Crusty old… white… men?
So things that cost 100x more than something else is exactly the same?
Yep.
Or maybe you think Apple left NeXT products on sale after the purchase.
And your proof of this is where, exactly?
Plug in speakers are done.
Now that you've suggested that transmitting audio over Bluetooth is the way to go, I find it harder to accept your earlier endorsement of the Beats headphones. Your standard for acceptable audio quality may be somewhat more forgiving than that of more critical listeners.
The contrast between Apple and Beats images couldn't be displayed better than in this ad.
smart and savvy compared to cheap and gaudy.
Except that Beats aren't cheap, in fact they're kinda pricey for what they are.
Maybe instead of "cheap and gaudy" we could go with "cheese and gouge-ey."
4 out of 5 stars in CNET
http://www.cnet.com/products/beats-solo-2/
Ah yes, CNET. The first source I check when evaluating an AUDIO product.
(Just poking ya in the ribs
)
"Solo 2 may not win audiophile hearts and ears, but for its intended audience -- namely, folks who are looking for a fast, exciting headphone with lots of high-quality bass -- this is an excellent on-ear headphones"
Translation: "They don't sound good, but sound quality is not why people buy Beats. They buy them to be seen wearing Beats and heard going BMM BMMM BMM!" (BTW, I've never heard the term "fast" used to describe an audio transducer… any idea what the author meant by that?)
4 out of 5 stars on PC Mag
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2460252,00.asp
PC Mag is not particularly noted for sonic evaluation expertise either, is it?
"The Beats Solo 2 sounds and feels like one of the least overpriced options from Beats, which normally prices its headphones at a premium. I suppose they could be sold for a bit less than $200, but even at that price, the Solo 2's comfortable, well-made design delivers thunderous lows without a hint of distortion."
HA HA HA HAAA! Seriously? THAT'S an "endorsement?" Talk about damning with faint praise!
Translation: "They go BOOM BOOM BOOM real good. Even though the price is still a rip-off, it's somewhat LESS of a rip-off than… well, any other Beats product…" Any value assessment, either positive or negative, assumes you don't look at any other brand on the planet!
Personally I took a look at these at BestBuy today and they do look and feel great. There build quality seem much better than the Solo1 which felt extremely cheap. I understand the need for wanting great bass. For my personal home theater I went with better bass instead of accuracy. I'm not an audiophile so I'd rather have heart pounding bass for watching movies than speaker that have limited base but are extremely accurate. I guess the same thing could be said for music.
That's fine. I have no quarrel with that. But when you say "Beats are great!" that's misleading, because they're NOT great… they are definitively INaccurate. Apparently on purpose.
Then there's what makes a $100 pair of headphones sell for >$200...
Now that you've suggested that transmitting audio over Bluetooth is the way to go, I find it harder to accept your earlier endorsement of the Beats headphones. Your standard for acceptable audio quality may be somewhat more forgiving than that of more critical listeners.
You misunderstood, "Plug in speakers are done" is a "trash talking" phrase from the first ad... Hence the smiley. Go watch it.
Regarding my standards for high end audio, they are actually quite high. I use an Anthem pre-amp, Anthem amplifiers, some Paradigm speakers, some JM-Labs speakers and three Velodyne DD subs in three zones. I have a Sennheiser HD-650 but I plan to buy a Beats Solo2 soon.
?It's OK to appreciate good sound but you can't go around criticizing everything because then you miss all the fun.
The Beats Solo2 sounds very good it is very cool.
Sorry but Lorin is right, I would normally be the first one to come to your rescue as the people in the board can defiantly be overly snobby towards products but in this case I get it. My children begged me for a a pair of Beats Solo 2's for Christmas, shortly after the New Years they both broke, one had a blown speaker from crappy techno music and the others cable had frayed, which isn't the first time that had happened with a pair of earphones from Beats in this house, I had a pair of in-ears that lasted 4 months before the cable started to break in 3 different places, just cheap crap. Sound quality, no where near as good as the price suggests they'll be, especislly when compared to decent headphones like my Bowers and Wilkins P5's or my newly aquired Aedle VK-1 Headphone for the same price. Only when paired with a decent headphone amplifier like the FiiO E12 do the Beats start to sound good but that's an additional150.00.
Nope, I don't get it, especially when there are just so many great headphones on the market right now. Also why would you want to own something that everyone has,have you ever counted how many you see in a dsy, it's staggering, almost every kid on the street has one now, buy something unique. You should really check out the Aedle Vk-1's, Bang and Olfusen H6 or Bowers and Wilkins P5 any of those three would also turn heads and they sound amazing. If you do buy the Beats because it is a fashion statement that you just can't live without, then don't forget a good headphone amplifier as it's almost a necessities.
You misunderstood, "Plug in speakers are done" is a "trash talking" phrase from the first ad... Hence the smiley.
D'oh! (Slapping my forehead.)
Somehow I missed that from the spot. Sorry. I try hard, but I'm just not that bright.
You gotta be more critical of these reviews. Remember, in most cases they're appearing on sites that are wooing Beats as an advertiser. They won't ever be openly critical, but the real story is usually there if you look carefully. Here's how I'd respond to the review author:
Quote:
"You gotta hand it to Beats, the company knows how to make beautiful headphones. The Solo² are some of the most attractive smaller-cup earphones I've seen."
Cool! How do they sound?
Quote:
"Beats has done a great job with the color and paint finish on the Solo². We received a sample in gray — which really looks more like a slate blue — that are just stunning. The paint is glossy, but at least in this color, they are not fingerprint magnets."
Yeah, but they're a listening device -- fingerprints aren't really my primary concern. How do they SOUND?
Quote:
"In fact, if I'm being honest, the Studio Wireless are my current favorite Bluetooth over-ear headphones.
Favourite BLUETOOTH headphones. Like my favourite diesel-powered race car. They're simply the best of the worst, since Bluetooth is a terrible, terrible thing to do to a perfectly innocent audio signal.
Quote:
"The truth is, you can get some very nice headphones for $200. To be sure, they won't be as attractive or fashionable as these Beats"
Dood, they're an AUDIO device, not a prom dress! HOW DO THEY SOUND?!
Quote:
"However, if you want something that will sound good — especially for hip-hop and dubstep
Woah, stop right there. "Sound good" is something that SHOULD be determinable objectively... how can there be an "especially?" Good means as close to the sound of the recording as possible without adding anything or taking anything away. If some kinds of music sound better than others, something is wrong. Very wrong.
Quote:
— and look fashionable, the Solo² fit the bill."
Yeah, okay, I'm seeing the trend here. Beats aren't really primarily about sound, they're costume jewelry. They're for the kids with the one-note subs in their car that don't reproduce any melodic content but rather just go BMMM and swamp the rest of the spectrum. They like that, but don't worry, they'll grow out of it. Everyone does.
Quote:
"Last fall, Beats introduced redesigned versions of the Beats Studio and Studio Wireless over-ear headphones, engineered for better sound. I got a review pair of the Studio Wireless Bluetooth headphones earlier this year and I must say, I was blown away by the difference in quality compared to the Monster-era Beats Studio model."
What I read there is "The new models are not as horrid as the old ones." Again, damning with faint praise.
I'm probably overstating my feelings about Beats. It obviously doesn't matter to me one way or the other if other people like them. I like to think of myself as being more pragmatic about consumer audio than most audio engineers, but it still drives me crazy when people describe products they bought primarily for reasons other than sound quality by saying "It sounds great!" At least this reviewer was honest!
But as I've said before I don't think Apple bought Beats for the headphones. But I do think the only way they could justify the $3B price tag was because the headphones are a money maker. No way is Beats streaming music service worth that much. And shit, if Steve Jobs was only worth $400M no way in hell Jimmy Iovine and Dr Dre are worth $3B (and who knows how much involvement they'll have or how long they'll stick around).
The question that's still unanswered (for me at least) is why Cue and Cook felt these guys, this music service was worth so much. What's Jimmy going to do that Apple couldn't do? Or couldn't have done for a much smaller price tag?
Sorry but Lorin is right
As much as I love reading those words (I don't think I've ever read or heard that sentence before!), to be fair I wasn't actually criticizing the Beats product. I was commenting on the use of Bluetooth as an audio transmission medium. I'm not saying I disagree with you, just that I didn't actually say what you credit me with saying.
Even the posts in which I openly challenge the positive reviews of the Beats product, what I'm actually criticizing is the review itself, not necessarily the product. My point was that the supposedly "positive" reviews didn't really give the reader much reason to be interested in the product beyond its role as a fashion accessory, and if the comments they published were the best reasons they could come up with to recommend Beats, it gives the impression that there isn't much to praise.
[...] Bowers and Wilkins [...]
Still waiting to hear a B&W product that sucks. Obviously some are better than others, but EVERYTHING they make is at least "decent."
The cans you mention (P5) are excellent. So are the C5, for those who prefer buds.
Looks great! Sound great as well? I'd presume so, but will check them out as I'm in the market for new over the ear phones for home use and new in-ear phones as the ones from Apple are kaput. Well, the 'remote' is kaput.
Ooh those look nice!
[VIDEO]http://player.vimeo.com/video/55691696[/VIDEO]
That is one great and useful piece of audio tech!
C5 are good? They look great; I will be trying these out tomorrow!
In the past, if A, B.
Today, A.
And yet you claim that there won’t be B.
So who’s not using common sense?
I sense a pattern with Apple. PAY ATTENTION.
Yes, run along to your little fantasyland where all rumors are true and all fact is false if you don’t agree with it. No one else here cares.
Thanks for the strawman. When you have evidence of Apple retaining the various Beats’ product lines in their current forms, let us know. You won’t. Because you don’t.