Your sniggering is misplaced unless you can deal with the facts at this level. He certainly wasn't lying.
I respectfully disagree. Or at least I still have doubts.
First, the article you quoted was based on predictions made by Digitimes, not actual reported numbers. That publication's track record of accuracy is really, really, bad. That casts reasonable doubt right away.
Second, as may be expected, none of what we can now compare was accurate. That means we're basing a conclusion that Tim was right on incorrect information.
Third, even if the gist of the article is true, that Apple would consume that majority of the world's screen production, that means Apple was in a better position than anyone to release a larger screen. If they controlled the supply, they could dictate how it was applied. They made a choice to proceed with the size they did. It was not imposed on them.
I wouldn't mind trading some thinness and weight against a whole-day battery life... The 5S is gorgeous, but if you use LTE or the GPS a lot, an external battery or battery case is pretty much a requirement. I'd love to have the option of a 5Ah battery, even if that meant a thicker, heavier phone.
Most people aren't willing for that, just because you don't do well does not make it devices fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrboba1
Doesn't it have to have a bigger battery if there is a bigger screen to keep battery life the same? So at least some of that increase is necessary just for status quo. The screen on a 4.7" diagonal has 35% more area than the 4"
I don't know how that translates to actual power usage, but thinking that a 46% bigger battery is going to increase battery life by the same amount is disingenuous.
Very true, but the larger screen allows a whole lot bigger battery then screen would consume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
I'd rather have a thinner, lighter phone than a thicker, heavier one. Even if it meant 10 hour battery life instead of 16. There's a tradeoff in size and battery life, and Apple has hit that mark since they started I believe. Need I point any doubters to the Macbook Pro Retina or MacBook Airs?
As I've said, this is apples goal likely, keep thin with battery taking a good boost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
You have all the answers, don't you? Maybe this person's job doesn't involve driving. Maybe he or she is out in the field all day w/o access to power and doesn't want a case. There's nothing wrong with hoping for the iP6 to have a better battery life. I work at a desk all day but I share the same hope.
Shocking to hear, perhaps, but not everyone's situation is like yours.
There are still alternatives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
Great point. Very true. However , like the iPad Air. An IGZO screen could easily offset the screen size through efficiency. Additoinally, chipset improvements could make the phone run under less power than the current iPhone 5S.
My hope is baterry life is at least 1.5 times that of the iPhone 5S. Minimum. Pulling for 2.
This has been apple this far, increase efficenty to maintain battery life, harder, but maintains thickness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScartArt
I would have expected the previously rumoured 1810mAh battery to compensate for the extra screen size so hopefully this new size will bring some actual benefit in terms of battery life. Certainly larger screen sizes don't use up all additional battery power, one reason why large screen Android phones are much better than the iPhone in terms of battery life.
Keep in mind that when large screen android came out, there battery life sucked, you where lucky to get an hour out of some of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
These kind of threads always crack me up. We all know Apple isn't going to make an iPhone that is thicker and heavier than the previous iPhone. The 3rd gen iPad was a anomaly (and people complained about it). People can complain all they want but if it bothers them that much then they need to get their phone elsewhere.
Very true
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane
They also did this with the iPad mini.
Apart from that, another limiting factor is the camera. Since I don't see them designing something with a stuck out optics then unless there is no step change in camera tech there will be not much room for decreasing the thickness.
The IPad mini had a extremly small screen size difference, and as apple did with iPhone 5 they could manage the camera, or we may just see it stick out like iPod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allmypeople
Give me a break.
As a fan and investor, Apple should do better at providing better battery life. It shouldn't be the customer's problem!
As a light-medium user who doesn't use a battery case, I've never seen so many iPhones in the wild WITH battery cases. Seeing so many out there clearly points to the fact that the current phone doesn't have an adequate battery for a lot of people.
For me, I would say it's 'okay.' But I would love to stream more and not have such a habit of plugging it in.
Battery life is pretty good now, but I agree the bigger is more since.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
In an ideal world Apple would give you exactly what you need but I believe most people manage fine. Heavy users need to figure out how to top up on the go for themselves. It is not rocket science. I have a dash holder in my car where I put my iPhone whenever I drive. I don't spend huge amounts of time on the road but it takes car of 95% of all my charging needs. If you don't drive then perhaps a desktop charger would be a good move. Get to work, plug it in and stream and surf to your hearts content. If you spend most of your day on site and are never near a charging point a case would seem like a simple option.
For me a thicker and heavier phone with longer battery life would be a loosing proposition.
So in the idea world apple should treat customers like Samsung.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
Sp you expect Apple to make the phone heavier, fatter, and uglier to satisfy 1% of the population? Really? Bottom line is most people are already satisfied with the 5s battery life.
If someone needs extended battery life they need to buy a $30 battery case. Whats easier? Have 1% of your customers buying cases or 99% of your customers mad about the size and weight of the phone?
Dont fool yourself . Apple pays millions to figure out what the optimal battery life vs weight ratio should be for the majority of there target market. Just because you have special 'needs' does not mean the rest of us have to suffer with a heavy phone.
True, but it does seem that it's more then 1% of people ask for it, more like 10, but only 1% goes for cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I forgot about the iPad mini. Was it as noticeable as the 3rd gen iPad?
No, it was not noticable at all while full IPad was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign
If they could somehow get an equivalent operating time increase as they did between the 2012 & 2013 macbook airs, all this hand wringing would be moot. My 2013 Haswell Air lasts forever (over 13 hours solid use)
As I've said, apple has other ways to increase battery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
Asking for all day battery life is considered a special 'need?'
Your version of all day battery life is vague, a iPhone gets 3 hours 3d games, 6 hours anything else, so unless your job is play games on the phone all day battery life is not an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne
I thought Android phones had better battery life because their users don't actually DO anything with them.
Very true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
My 5S last the whole day easily.
I usually charge at 10pm with 30%+ of battery life.
My normal day I stream video, stream radio, internet, text, calls ect.
I'm pretty sure 99% of iPhone users have the same experience.
Where does it end? How much sacrifice do the 99% need to make to please the 1%? What about people who are in the field for MULTIPLE DAYS? How do they feel? Maybe we need to make the iPhone weight 1 pound so the battery last a week. See how silly that sounds?
The average use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin
Who do you think you are? I can't believe how arrogant and self-important you are. I'm TELLING you what *I* would prefer. I have battery cases. I've actually had battery cases since my first iPhone. Mophie, Tylt, brand-X, dozens of them. They ALL suck. They add considerable bulk to the phone, much more than a higher capacity battery would. It's an inefficient concept that wastes a lot of energy in the conversion, using one battery to charge another. I would like to have the option to purchase a slightly bigger phone with a much longer battery life, instead of an impossibly thin phone that doesn't last me a day. You are not speaking for all users.
If your complaining, you got to make sacrifices, battery vs thickness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin
Running out of juice has a serious adverse effect on the ownership experience. If the iPhone's battery life was not an issue to "most users," Samsung would not have picked on it for its anti-Apple commercials.
Samsung always says crap about apple, but it does not make it true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin
I have battery cases. Lots of them. They're bulky and inefficient. It takes a huge battery case to add the same amount of juice you'd get with a slightly thicker and heavier phone. I'm glad you love your iPhone, but you're clearly pulling your 99% figure right out of your nether regions. Battery life is an issue with all smartphones, and the iPhone in particular. If Apple is, as the rumor says, coming up with two new iPhone sizes, they're obviously aware that "one size fits all" is not the way to go, so why not come up with one model that has huge battery life, for the "1%" so your "99%" doesn't have to suffer?
Screen size is not tottal difference, if they choose one with bigger battery it'd be 2 form factors for 1 device, but what's next, proccesor, camera, models?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin
I didn't say it was a real problem to the point it would make me switch. I said if you survey iPhone users and ask them how the phone could be improved, battery life is at the top of their list. Stop being such a brainless fanboi.
Survey any battery powered computer, battery will be a issue(maybe not MacBooks).
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
Because the average user runs countless tests in real life? No, sorry. Again, you fail. The average user uses their own real world experience or compares their usage to a friend who owns another phone/brand.
So you say a flawed test is correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
No. thats the Samdung model. Making dozens of phones. Look where they are now.
Apple can keep prices low because they make so few models.
Keep prices low? Yes I said that. Look at the build quality and materials between the iPhone5S vs teh Samdung S5. Beautiful metal vs cheap azz plastic. Yet they cost the same on release. If Apple made dozens of type of phones like Samdung they would have to either take profit hits or raise prices.
If you are clumsy, constantly drop your phone in the toilet, or stream netflix all day - go buy a case that fits your needs. For the rest of use normal users we love the beautiful look and feel of the phone. There is ZERO reason for Apple to make specialized phones for the very few who have 'special needs'
So true
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT
Can you please document that only 1% want a larger battery. In my job we have 5000+ iPhones, I have asked a number of the people working close to me, and more than half the people asked would prefer a larger battery at the penalty of a little more weight and thickness. Several people, including myself, have battery cases, and I have yet to talk to someone who likes this solution. I have no problems with you saying what you yourself prefer, but stop telling that 99% of other people thinks like you do unless you can document it.
It's probably not one to 99% but 90 to 10% is probably true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crapplingpain
One of the big reasons I bought my first Macbook (13" Air) is because it had the Haswell processor which gave it a very long battery life and great sleep-mode power savings. It's why I chose it over a Macbook Pro. It's the first laptop that I've really, really enjoyed using for spur-of-the-moment surfing because it wakes up quickly and I don't have to worry about re-charging it. The 10+ hours of operating time is a huge factor in my enjoyment of that computer.
For some of us, long battery life is a serious and significant consideration. It's good that Apple is going to produce a phone for those of us who prefer longer battery life and bigger screens. I presume they'll also keep producing the smaller sized phones as well.
One thing to note is your MacBook Air is thinner then Mac book pro, or 99% of laptops while still having better battery then 99% as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusephe
Well I will chill you a little bit it just about 35% bigger as the iPhone 5S got an 5.92 Wh battery (1560 mAh) which is rather huge for a ultra thin 4" phone. But going back to 4S to 5 transition, we saw noticeable battery life gains with just about 3% battery size increase. And this is far bigger than that, so its safe to say the new iPhone will get a noticeably better battery life as well, there will be that hard battery capacity that will not let it down. It will be biggest battery size increase in iPhone history (if true) eclipsing even iPhone 3GS to 4 transition at about 16% and boy that was an incredible battery life on the 4 compared to 3GS back then.... Ok so maybe I didn't chilled anyone with such post.
That's why I don't see why people can't see this same strategy planned again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Must be why they don’t make a phablet, then, huh.
Besides the fact that it's almost makes you weird because you like it so darn big.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
One of the main attractions of an iPhone is its appearance.
Stuffing a large azz battery in it will detract from it
Why fix it if it isn't broken? Why risk BILLIONS by putting a large azz battery in teh phone a risk losing millions of users?
And where does it end? If you give 15 hour battery life why not 24 hours? or 48 hours? Just make it bigger, fatter, and heavier?
When does it end?
Do you SERIOUSLY think a $600,000,000,000 company does not do extensive research to see what their clients want? Seriously!!!
Point taken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
WSJ: People want a bigger screen iPhone. Are you against that?
Cook: What we’ve said is that until the technology is ready, we don’t want to cross that line. That doesn’t say we’ll never do it. We want to give our customers what’s right in all respects – not just the size but in the resolution, in the clarity, in the contrast, in the reliability. There are many different parameters to measure a display and we care about all those, because we know that’s the window to the software.
Tim Cook said it himself. He said the tech wasn't ready for a large screen iPhone. So should i believe you or Mr Cook?
And one reason he gave was......battery life. LOL.
Professional reviewers test the phones in a controlled environment. Thats the difference.
That was just a reason to say they have a screen as efficent as 4 inch planned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
None of the professional reviews mention the iPhone battery life is horrible. Trust me. If millions of people were getting 4 hours battery life the media would run with that story 24 hours a day.
I only hear it from individuals on forums. They probably have defective phones or are 1% that are heavy users.
Point is anybody on a tech forum is not average and is going for the upper use category.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Never could get the hang of that place. It’s always Thursday.
... You don’t have a clue why he said that, do you.
You’re trying to get me to believe that Apple is incapable of creating a larger phone with good battery life? Is that what you’re trying to say? They’ve probably been able to do it since the iPhone’s inception and absolutely since the iPhone 4. They don’t do it because you can’t use a larger phone and the majority doesn’t want a device YOU CANNOT USE.
Wrong.
You said it yourself. Fad.
No, big phones have been around for years and still haven’t taken off. Apple isn’t late to anything.
Big phones always are a stupid idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
40% more power wasted and twice the charging time. No, thank you.
This should be apples plan, efficenty, not android wich is throw stuff at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
Tallest Ski is hopeless.
To his dying day he will say a 4 inch phone is ideal for everyone
There is no idea size, but I can say that 4 inches is closer then 5.5 inches is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4
While it's a bigger battery most likely it will provide little if any additional battery life The IPhone 6 is expected to have health monitoring functions that will constantly be on and use more battery power
In any case the Iphone6 will be great
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
LIke i said multiple times here - Apple spends millions on research to find out what their users want. They dont leave anything to chance. Customer preferences change with time. I'm pretty sure that in 2012 not many people wanted a 5 inch phone. But now with new information Apple sees that people want larger screens. Maybe in a few years their research may say people want 48 hour batteries and Apple will comply.
They seem to follow that path.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy
the problem is this -- what is "whole-day" life? my life lasts me the whole day, but clearly I'm not using it as you are. and despite how often you use LTE or GPS, surely there is someone who uses more. which brings us to -- 24-hour battery life on 100% functionality. this is impossible, not even notebooks could do that.
Anything could do it if you times battery by 5 while adding thickness by 5, hey, apple should add pocket size generators to add battery life as this forum suggest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Why didn't we get a larger screen in 2012 then? Because of some revolutionary technology that only Apple has access to and that wasn't available in 2012? That's what some here would have us believe. If so, I can't wait for Phil Schiller to tell us all about this revolutionary display technology and I'll assume then that display mate will crown iPhone 6 display the best smartphone display in the market.
It probably will be the most efficent, maybe brightest, and by patents, who knows, maybe dolor glass will be built in at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
Apple did make a larger screen. From 3.5 to 4.0.
In 2012 no one knew big screens woud take off. It was shear luck that Samdung hit on gold. Of course it was easily because they make 100 different phones.
Apple operates in two year cycles. So once they made the decision to make the iPhone5 4 inches they were commited to make the 5S the same size. Show me how many people said the iPhone5 screen was too small. You won't find hardly anyone. At the time it was a good size.
Should Apple switch to a 1 year cycle? Maybe. But that will hurt margins.
4 inches was still considered small then, did it kill sales, noo!!!
What I really want is an iPhone Nano. The small size is ideal for calling and texting.
I have had more butt dialing (Android) than you can imagine when I am in the shop and doing physical labor. Add a little sweat and you get "hello, hello, is that you?". And that is on a 3" phone! My computer is always nearby, so I can do all the web stuff I want without needing a 5.7" screen.
I bet there are a lot of people that would like a smaller phone (about the size of a flip phone) with some really good features.
What I really want is an iPhone Nano. The small size is ideal for calling and texting.
I have had more butt dialing (Android) than you can imagine when I am in the shop and doing physical labor. Add a little sweat and you get "hello, hello, is that you?". <span style="line-height:1.4em;">And that is on a 3" phone! My computer is always nearby, so I can do all the web stuff I want without needing a 5.7" screen.</span>
I bet there are a lot of people that would like a smaller phone (about the size of a flip phone) with some really good features.
"butt dialing (Android)" Nice!
Good point. Yet, a smaller than 3.5" smartphone will be considered a niche market. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that Apple doesn't do niche anymore. They think big. Steve said so during that Segway meeting.
OT: people on an iPhone reading this thread are so not going to like the post from Curtis Hannah, when quoted that is.
Ah, jeez, did you have to quote the whole thing? If there’s something long or unwieldy I want to quote, I just do the above.
Originally Posted by cnocbui
You are so out of touch with the real world it's funny.
Yes, because as we all know, everyone who has used the iPhone, reviewed the iPhone, or encountered an iPhone in any setting has commented on how unusable the battery life is.
Oh, wait, no, you’re completely and utterly wrong, perpetrating a delusion for whatever mindless reason.
Ah, jeez, did you have to quote the whole thing? If there’s something long or unwieldy I want to quote, I just do the above.
Originally Posted by cnocbui
You are so out of touch with the real world it's funny.
Yes, because as we all know, everyone who has used the iPhone, reviewed the iPhone, or encountered an iPhone in any setting has commented on how unusable the battery life is.
Oh, wait, no, you’re completely and utterly wrong, perpetrating a delusion for whatever mindless reason.
Sorry. It was such an impressively long post, I thought it warranted another reading, and part of me wanted you to throw your hands up in despair. ????
I respectfully disagree. Or at least I still have doubts.
First, the article you quoted was based on predictions made by Digitimes, not actual reported numbers. That publication's track record of accuracy is really, really, bad. That casts reasonable doubt right away.
Second, as may be expected, none of what we can now compare was accurate. That means we're basing a conclusion that Tim was right on incorrect information.
Third, even if the gist of the article is true, that Apple would consume that majority of the world's screen production, that means Apple was in a better position than anyone to release a larger screen. If they controlled the supply, they could dictate how it was applied. They made a choice to proceed with the size they did. It was not imposed on them.
Display is only one leg of the stool. You will see that the A8 is required to run a big phone Apple-style, and iOS8. Years of development are behind each iteration. All LTPS is going to current projected models, at that time the 5 and 5s. It's a technological ecosystem all its own, the way Apple does it.
The sniggerers are being way too simplistic, and DigiTimes knows more than they do.
He's making up shit so he can troll against it later after the phone comes out with the second or third best screen on the market, and he knows it. Either that, or he's terminally fact-challenged. Nobody said anything about a "revolutionary new [display] technology." He's talking about good old LTPS or IGZO, both of which were unavailable in 2012 in Apple quantities. Only one, IGZO, will be revolutionary for larger-screened portables, AFAIK, not in phones. In any case, he's threatening to throw a fit if Apple does not come out Number One, thus misrepresenting the whole argument-from-technology regarding Apple's larger screens. What kind of fit? A troll fit or just a hissy fit? You decide.
Why didn't we get a larger screen in 2012 then? Because of some revolutionary technology that only Apple has access to and that wasn't available in 2012? That's what some here would have us believe. If so, I can't wait for Phil Schiller to tell us all about this revolutionary display technology and I'll assume then that display mate will crown iPhone 6 display the best smartphone display in the market.
I believe what Tim Cook was referring to is specific to apple's IOS. What I am talking about is that part of the original IOS design and how it handled screen layout. (i.e in fixed points, not dynamic)
when they went to Retina, this is WHY they chose the resolution they did (960×640) instead of 720p(1280x720) or some other standard, they needed an even multiple of the existing screen resolution so existing apps would layout properly.
when they switched to 4" this is why they only added height (and didn't scale width/height equally); to allow existing apps to layout properly in a "letterbox" on the new display.
It was at THIS time that Apple really started pushing developers to use their "Auto Layout" which would allow apps to be able to handle varying screen sizes; NOW that developers have been told to use "Auto layout" for 2 years, and perhaps now Apple believes enough apps are using it, they feel confident enough to introduce a new resolution needed for a truly larger screen (in both dimensions) for the Iphone 6.
I really can't understand why Apple uses so low capacity batteries!!! It's a nightmare. Now during the summer holidays it's getting even worse for me. Using the 3G - 4G , the battery lasts less than a half day. Lol.
I really can't understand why Apple uses so low capacity batteries!!! It's a nightmare. Now during the summer holidays it's getting even worse for me. Using the 3G - 4G , the battery lasts less than a half day. Lol.
I switched form the iPhone 5S to the Samsung S5 in April.
The S5 battery life is very good. It buries the 5S, and in a pinch, the power saving mode got me through another 4 hours on a measly 7% battery life.
I don't know what iPhone 6 has to offer, but this whole form over function routine is concerning. I don't need a thinner phone as much as I need a longer lasting phone.
...this whole form over function routine is concerning.
That people still pretend this exists after 7 years is concerning.
It is my considered opinion that Apple frequently puts form over function. I think the current iMacs are a perfect example. Making the edges skinny yields zero benefit to the user beyond looking pretty while adversely affecting the user experience with access and heat dissipation constraints. One can also argue that the mini could be improved substantially without increasing cost just by making the enclosure a little larger. And, of course, there's the subject of this thread. I don't recall anyone complaining that the iPhone 4 was too heavy, yet the choice to make the iPhone 5 lighter seems to have resulted in a chorus of users who are dissatisfied with battery life.
Obviously there are many people who very much appreciate the size reductions and aesthetics of the current lineup. I am NOT saying they are wrong to feel that way. I *AM* saying that what they like is the FORM of the machine. In some cases achieving that form means making compromises in function. So, even though the choice to produce the form satisfies many, perhaps even the majority of, users, that does not change the fact that it is, by definition, form over function. Putting "curb appeal" ahead of absolute performance is just one compromise among many, including cost vs. performance, weight vs. durability, features vs. battery life. etc.
The question is not whether Apple sometimes prioritizes form over function because it's obvious they do. The question is whether Apple's choices are good or bad. There's no way to determine that absolutely because the decision hinges on the use patterns and preferences of the individual. What's good for you may be bad for me or vice-versa.
...this whole form over function routine is concerning.
That people still pretend this exists after 7 years is concerning.
It is my considered opinion that Apple frequently puts form over function. I think the current iMacs are a perfect example. Making the edges skinny yields zero benefit to the user beyond looking pretty while adversely affecting the user experience with access and heat dissipation constraints. One can also argue that the mini could be improved substantially without increasing cost just by making the enclosure a little larger. And, of course, there's the subject of this thread. I don't recall anyone complaining that the iPhone 4 was too heavy, yet the choice to make the iPhone 5 lighter seems to have resulted in a chorus of users who are dissatisfied with battery life.
Obviously there are many people who very much appreciate the size reductions and aesthetics of the current lineup. I am NOT saying they are wrong to feel that way. I *AM* saying that what they like is the FORM of the machine. In some cases achieving that form means making compromises in function. So, even though the choice to produce the form satisfies many, perhaps even the majority of, users, that does not change the fact that it is, by definition, form over function. Putting "curb appeal" ahead of absolute performance is just one compromise among many, including cost vs. performance, weight vs. durability, features vs. battery life. etc.
The question is not whether Apple sometimes prioritizes form over function because it's obvious they do. The question is whether Apple's choices are good or bad. There's no way to determine that absolutely because the decision hinges on the use patterns and preferences of the individual. What's good for you may be bad for me or vice-versa.
I'm afraid your blanket statements do you no favours. So here's another:
799,999,999 people think that Apple combines form with function to delightful effect.
Nothing wrong with bucking the trend, though. ????
799,999,999 people think that Apple combines form with function to delightful effect.
How does that contradict what I wrote?
That many people LIKE the choices Apple made that compromised the performance or user control over hardware to increase curb appeal does not change the fact that Apple made a compromise in performance or user control over hardware to increase curb appeal.
There is no value judgement in that statement whatsoever.
Comments
Your sniggering is misplaced unless you can deal with the facts at this level. He certainly wasn't lying.
I respectfully disagree. Or at least I still have doubts.
First, the article you quoted was based on predictions made by Digitimes, not actual reported numbers. That publication's track record of accuracy is really, really, bad. That casts reasonable doubt right away.
Second, as may be expected, none of what we can now compare was accurate. That means we're basing a conclusion that Tim was right on incorrect information.
Third, even if the gist of the article is true, that Apple would consume that majority of the world's screen production, that means Apple was in a better position than anyone to release a larger screen. If they controlled the supply, they could dictate how it was applied. They made a choice to proceed with the size they did. It was not imposed on them.
I wouldn't mind trading some thinness and weight against a whole-day battery life... The 5S is gorgeous, but if you use LTE or the GPS a lot, an external battery or battery case is pretty much a requirement. I'd love to have the option of a 5Ah battery, even if that meant a thicker, heavier phone.
Most people aren't willing for that, just because you don't do well does not make it devices fault.
Doesn't it have to have a bigger battery if there is a bigger screen to keep battery life the same? So at least some of that increase is necessary just for status quo. The screen on a 4.7" diagonal has 35% more area than the 4"
I don't know how that translates to actual power usage, but thinking that a 46% bigger battery is going to increase battery life by the same amount is disingenuous.
Very true, but the larger screen allows a whole lot bigger battery then screen would consume.
I'd rather have a thinner, lighter phone than a thicker, heavier one. Even if it meant 10 hour battery life instead of 16. There's a tradeoff in size and battery life, and Apple has hit that mark since they started I believe. Need I point any doubters to the Macbook Pro Retina or MacBook Airs?
As I've said, this is apples goal likely, keep thin with battery taking a good boost.
You have all the answers, don't you? Maybe this person's job doesn't involve driving. Maybe he or she is out in the field all day w/o access to power and doesn't want a case. There's nothing wrong with hoping for the iP6 to have a better battery life. I work at a desk all day but I share the same hope.
Shocking to hear, perhaps, but not everyone's situation is like yours.
There are still alternatives.
Great point. Very true. However , like the iPad Air. An IGZO screen could easily offset the screen size through efficiency. Additoinally, chipset improvements could make the phone run under less power than the current iPhone 5S.
My hope is baterry life is at least 1.5 times that of the iPhone 5S. Minimum. Pulling for 2.
This has been apple this far, increase efficenty to maintain battery life, harder, but maintains thickness.
I would have expected the previously rumoured 1810mAh battery to compensate for the extra screen size so hopefully this new size will bring some actual benefit in terms of battery life. Certainly larger screen sizes don't use up all additional battery power, one reason why large screen Android phones are much better than the iPhone in terms of battery life.
Keep in mind that when large screen android came out, there battery life sucked, you where lucky to get an hour out of some of them.
These kind of threads always crack me up. We all know Apple isn't going to make an iPhone that is thicker and heavier than the previous iPhone. The 3rd gen iPad was a anomaly (and people complained about it). People can complain all they want but if it bothers them that much then they need to get their phone elsewhere.
Very true
They also did this with the iPad mini.
Apart from that, another limiting factor is the camera. Since I don't see them designing something with a stuck out optics then unless there is no step change in camera tech there will be not much room for decreasing the thickness.
The IPad mini had a extremly small screen size difference, and as apple did with iPhone 5 they could manage the camera, or we may just see it stick out like iPod.
Give me a break.
As a fan and investor, Apple should do better at providing better battery life. It shouldn't be the customer's problem!
As a light-medium user who doesn't use a battery case, I've never seen so many iPhones in the wild WITH battery cases. Seeing so many out there clearly points to the fact that the current phone doesn't have an adequate battery for a lot of people.
For me, I would say it's 'okay.' But I would love to stream more and not have such a habit of plugging it in.
Battery life is pretty good now, but I agree the bigger is more since.
In an ideal world Apple would give you exactly what you need but I believe most people manage fine. Heavy users need to figure out how to top up on the go for themselves. It is not rocket science. I have a dash holder in my car where I put my iPhone whenever I drive. I don't spend huge amounts of time on the road but it takes car of 95% of all my charging needs. If you don't drive then perhaps a desktop charger would be a good move. Get to work, plug it in and stream and surf to your hearts content. If you spend most of your day on site and are never near a charging point a case would seem like a simple option.
For me a thicker and heavier phone with longer battery life would be a loosing proposition.
So in the idea world apple should treat customers like Samsung.
Sp you expect Apple to make the phone heavier, fatter, and uglier to satisfy 1% of the population? Really? Bottom line is most people are already satisfied with the 5s battery life.
If someone needs extended battery life they need to buy a $30 battery case. Whats easier? Have 1% of your customers buying cases or 99% of your customers mad about the size and weight of the phone?
Dont fool yourself . Apple pays millions to figure out what the optimal battery life vs weight ratio should be for the majority of there target market. Just because you have special 'needs' does not mean the rest of us have to suffer with a heavy phone.
True, but it does seem that it's more then 1% of people ask for it, more like 10, but only 1% goes for cases.
I forgot about the iPad mini. Was it as noticeable as the 3rd gen iPad?
No, it was not noticable at all while full IPad was.
If they could somehow get an equivalent operating time increase as they did between the 2012 & 2013 macbook airs, all this hand wringing would be moot. My 2013 Haswell Air lasts forever (over 13 hours solid use)
As I've said, apple has other ways to increase battery.
Asking for all day battery life is considered a special 'need?'
Your version of all day battery life is vague, a iPhone gets 3 hours 3d games, 6 hours anything else, so unless your job is play games on the phone all day battery life is not an issue.
I thought Android phones had better battery life because their users don't actually DO anything with them.
Very true.
My 5S last the whole day easily.
I usually charge at 10pm with 30%+ of battery life.
My normal day I stream video, stream radio, internet, text, calls ect.
I'm pretty sure 99% of iPhone users have the same experience.
Where does it end? How much sacrifice do the 99% need to make to please the 1%? What about people who are in the field for MULTIPLE DAYS? How do they feel? Maybe we need to make the iPhone weight 1 pound so the battery last a week. See how silly that sounds?
The average use.
Who do you think you are? I can't believe how arrogant and self-important you are. I'm TELLING you what *I* would prefer. I have battery cases. I've actually had battery cases since my first iPhone. Mophie, Tylt, brand-X, dozens of them. They ALL suck. They add considerable bulk to the phone, much more than a higher capacity battery would. It's an inefficient concept that wastes a lot of energy in the conversion, using one battery to charge another. I would like to have the option to purchase a slightly bigger phone with a much longer battery life, instead of an impossibly thin phone that doesn't last me a day. You are not speaking for all users.
If your complaining, you got to make sacrifices, battery vs thickness.
Running out of juice has a serious adverse effect on the ownership experience. If the iPhone's battery life was not an issue to "most users," Samsung would not have picked on it for its anti-Apple commercials.
Samsung always says crap about apple, but it does not make it true.
I have battery cases. Lots of them. They're bulky and inefficient. It takes a huge battery case to add the same amount of juice you'd get with a slightly thicker and heavier phone. I'm glad you love your iPhone, but you're clearly pulling your 99% figure right out of your nether regions. Battery life is an issue with all smartphones, and the iPhone in particular. If Apple is, as the rumor says, coming up with two new iPhone sizes, they're obviously aware that "one size fits all" is not the way to go, so why not come up with one model that has huge battery life, for the "1%" so your "99%" doesn't have to suffer?
Screen size is not tottal difference, if they choose one with bigger battery it'd be 2 form factors for 1 device, but what's next, proccesor, camera, models?
I didn't say it was a real problem to the point it would make me switch. I said if you survey iPhone users and ask them how the phone could be improved, battery life is at the top of their list. Stop being such a brainless fanboi.
Survey any battery powered computer, battery will be a issue(maybe not MacBooks).
Because the average user runs countless tests in real life? No, sorry. Again, you fail. The average user uses their own real world experience or compares their usage to a friend who owns another phone/brand.
So you say a flawed test is correct?
No. thats the Samdung model. Making dozens of phones. Look where they are now.
Apple can keep prices low because they make so few models.
Keep prices low? Yes I said that. Look at the build quality and materials between the iPhone5S vs teh Samdung S5. Beautiful metal vs cheap azz plastic. Yet they cost the same on release. If Apple made dozens of type of phones like Samdung they would have to either take profit hits or raise prices.
If you are clumsy, constantly drop your phone in the toilet, or stream netflix all day - go buy a case that fits your needs. For the rest of use normal users we love the beautiful look and feel of the phone. There is ZERO reason for Apple to make specialized phones for the very few who have 'special needs'
So true
Can you please document that only 1% want a larger battery. In my job we have 5000+ iPhones, I have asked a number of the people working close to me, and more than half the people asked would prefer a larger battery at the penalty of a little more weight and thickness. Several people, including myself, have battery cases, and I have yet to talk to someone who likes this solution. I have no problems with you saying what you yourself prefer, but stop telling that 99% of other people thinks like you do unless you can document it.
It's probably not one to 99% but 90 to 10% is probably true.
One of the big reasons I bought my first Macbook (13" Air) is because it had the Haswell processor which gave it a very long battery life and great sleep-mode power savings. It's why I chose it over a Macbook Pro. It's the first laptop that I've really, really enjoyed using for spur-of-the-moment surfing because it wakes up quickly and I don't have to worry about re-charging it. The 10+ hours of operating time is a huge factor in my enjoyment of that computer.
For some of us, long battery life is a serious and significant consideration. It's good that Apple is going to produce a phone for those of us who prefer longer battery life and bigger screens. I presume they'll also keep producing the smaller sized phones as well.
One thing to note is your MacBook Air is thinner then Mac book pro, or 99% of laptops while still having better battery then 99% as well.
Well I will chill you a little bit it just about 35% bigger as the iPhone 5S got an 5.92 Wh battery (1560 mAh) which is rather huge for a ultra thin 4" phone. But going back to 4S to 5 transition, we saw noticeable battery life gains with just about 3% battery size increase. And this is far bigger than that, so its safe to say the new iPhone will get a noticeably better battery life as well, there will be that hard battery capacity that will not let it down. It will be biggest battery size increase in iPhone history (if true) eclipsing even iPhone 3GS to 4 transition at about 16% and boy that was an incredible battery life on the 4 compared to 3GS back then.... Ok so maybe I didn't chilled anyone with such post.
That's why I don't see why people can't see this same strategy planned again.
Must be why they don’t make a phablet, then, huh.
Besides the fact that it's almost makes you weird because you like it so darn big.
One of the main attractions of an iPhone is its appearance.
Stuffing a large azz battery in it will detract from it
Why fix it if it isn't broken? Why risk BILLIONS by putting a large azz battery in teh phone a risk losing millions of users?
And where does it end? If you give 15 hour battery life why not 24 hours? or 48 hours? Just make it bigger, fatter, and heavier?
When does it end?
Do you SERIOUSLY think a $600,000,000,000 company does not do extensive research to see what their clients want? Seriously!!!
Point taken.
WSJ: People want a bigger screen iPhone. Are you against that?
Cook: What we’ve said is that until the technology is ready, we don’t want to cross that line. That doesn’t say we’ll never do it. We want to give our customers what’s right in all respects – not just the size but in the resolution, in the clarity, in the contrast, in the reliability. There are many different parameters to measure a display and we care about all those, because we know that’s the window to the software.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/02/07/apple-still-a-growth-company-cook-says-in-journal-interview/
Tim Cook said it himself. He said the tech wasn't ready for a large screen iPhone. So should i believe you or Mr Cook?
And one reason he gave was......battery life. LOL.
Professional reviewers test the phones in a controlled environment. Thats the difference.
That was just a reason to say they have a screen as efficent as 4 inch planned.
None of the professional reviews mention the iPhone battery life is horrible. Trust me. If millions of people were getting 4 hours battery life the media would run with that story 24 hours a day.
I only hear it from individuals on forums. They probably have defective phones or are 1% that are heavy users.
Point is anybody on a tech forum is not average and is going for the upper use category.
Never could get the hang of that place. It’s always Thursday.
... You don’t have a clue why he said that, do you.
You’re trying to get me to believe that Apple is incapable of creating a larger phone with good battery life? Is that what you’re trying to say? They’ve probably been able to do it since the iPhone’s inception and absolutely since the iPhone 4. They don’t do it because you can’t use a larger phone and the majority doesn’t want a device YOU CANNOT USE.
Wrong.
You said it yourself. Fad.
No, big phones have been around for years and still haven’t taken off. Apple isn’t late to anything.
Big phones always are a stupid idea.
40% more power wasted and twice the charging time. No, thank you.
THIS is the real future: ludicrously high capacities and ludicrously short charging times.
This should be apples plan, efficenty, not android wich is throw stuff at it.
Tallest Ski is hopeless.
To his dying day he will say a 4 inch phone is ideal for everyone
There is no idea size, but I can say that 4 inches is closer then 5.5 inches is.
While it's a bigger battery most likely it will provide little if any additional battery life The IPhone 6 is expected to have health monitoring functions that will constantly be on and use more battery power
In any case the Iphone6 will be great
LIke i said multiple times here - Apple spends millions on research to find out what their users want. They dont leave anything to chance. Customer preferences change with time. I'm pretty sure that in 2012 not many people wanted a 5 inch phone. But now with new information Apple sees that people want larger screens. Maybe in a few years their research may say people want 48 hour batteries and Apple will comply.
They seem to follow that path.
the problem is this -- what is "whole-day" life? my life lasts me the whole day, but clearly I'm not using it as you are. and despite how often you use LTE or GPS, surely there is someone who uses more. which brings us to -- 24-hour battery life on 100% functionality. this is impossible, not even notebooks could do that.
Anything could do it if you times battery by 5 while adding thickness by 5, hey, apple should add pocket size generators to add battery life as this forum suggest.
Why didn't we get a larger screen in 2012 then? Because of some revolutionary technology that only Apple has access to and that wasn't available in 2012? That's what some here would have us believe. If so, I can't wait for Phil Schiller to tell us all about this revolutionary display technology and I'll assume then that display mate will crown iPhone 6 display the best smartphone display in the market.
It probably will be the most efficent, maybe brightest, and by patents, who knows, maybe dolor glass will be built in at some point.
Apple did make a larger screen. From 3.5 to 4.0.
In 2012 no one knew big screens woud take off. It was shear luck that Samdung hit on gold. Of course it was easily because they make 100 different phones.
Apple operates in two year cycles. So once they made the decision to make the iPhone5 4 inches they were commited to make the 5S the same size. Show me how many people said the iPhone5 screen was too small. You won't find hardly anyone. At the time it was a good size.
Should Apple switch to a 1 year cycle? Maybe. But that will hurt margins.
4 inches was still considered small then, did it kill sales, noo!!!
Good post.
What battery life issues? There aren’t any.
Simply Lol!
You are so out of touch with the real world it's funny.
So out of touch that he's right.
What I really want is an iPhone Nano. The small size is ideal for calling and texting.
I have had more butt dialing (Android) than you can imagine when I am in the shop and doing physical labor. Add a little sweat and you get "hello, hello, is that you?". And that is on a 3" phone! My computer is always nearby, so I can do all the web stuff I want without needing a 5.7" screen.
I bet there are a lot of people that would like a smaller phone (about the size of a flip phone) with some really good features.
"butt dialing (Android)" Nice!
Good point. Yet, a smaller than 3.5" smartphone will be considered a niche market. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that Apple doesn't do niche anymore. They think big. Steve said so during that Segway meeting.
OT: people on an iPhone reading this thread are so not going to like the post from Curtis Hannah, when quoted that is.
Ah, jeez, did you have to quote the whole thing? If there’s something long or unwieldy I want to quote, I just do the above.
Yes, because as we all know, everyone who has used the iPhone, reviewed the iPhone, or encountered an iPhone in any setting has commented on how unusable the battery life is.
Oh, wait, no, you’re completely and utterly wrong, perpetrating a delusion for whatever mindless reason.
Ah, jeez, did you have to quote the whole thing? If there’s something long or unwieldy I want to quote, I just do the above.
Yes, because as we all know, everyone who has used the iPhone, reviewed the iPhone, or encountered an iPhone in any setting has commented on how unusable the battery life is.
Oh, wait, no, you’re completely and utterly wrong, perpetrating a delusion for whatever mindless reason.
Sorry. It was such an impressively long post, I thought it warranted another reading, and part of me wanted you to throw your hands up in despair. ????
That was the longest post in the history of the Internet.
That may be. But not the longest sentence, I think:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/181706/apple-and-samsung-agree-to-settle-all-non-us-litigation#post_2574527
Display is only one leg of the stool. You will see that the A8 is required to run a big phone Apple-style, and iOS8. Years of development are behind each iteration. All LTPS is going to current projected models, at that time the 5 and 5s. It's a technological ecosystem all its own, the way Apple does it.
The sniggerers are being way too simplistic, and DigiTimes knows more than they do.
He's making up shit so he can troll against it later after the phone comes out with the second or third best screen on the market, and he knows it. Either that, or he's terminally fact-challenged. Nobody said anything about a "revolutionary new [display] technology." He's talking about good old LTPS or IGZO, both of which were unavailable in 2012 in Apple quantities. Only one, IGZO, will be revolutionary for larger-screened portables, AFAIK, not in phones. In any case, he's threatening to throw a fit if Apple does not come out Number One, thus misrepresenting the whole argument-from-technology regarding Apple's larger screens. What kind of fit? A troll fit or just a hissy fit? You decide.
Edit: all "he's" should be changed to "she's."
Why didn't we get a larger screen in 2012 then? Because of some revolutionary technology that only Apple has access to and that wasn't available in 2012? That's what some here would have us believe. If so, I can't wait for Phil Schiller to tell us all about this revolutionary display technology and I'll assume then that display mate will crown iPhone 6 display the best smartphone display in the market.
I believe what Tim Cook was referring to is specific to apple's IOS. What I am talking about is that part of the original IOS design and how it handled screen layout. (i.e in fixed points, not dynamic)
when they went to Retina, this is WHY they chose the resolution they did (960×640) instead of 720p(1280x720) or some other standard, they needed an even multiple of the existing screen resolution so existing apps would layout properly.
when they switched to 4" this is why they only added height (and didn't scale width/height equally); to allow existing apps to layout properly in a "letterbox" on the new display.
It was at THIS time that Apple really started pushing developers to use their "Auto Layout" which would allow apps to be able to handle varying screen sizes; NOW that developers have been told to use "Auto layout" for 2 years, and perhaps now Apple believes enough apps are using it, they feel confident enough to introduce a new resolution needed for a truly larger screen (in both dimensions) for the Iphone 6.
Hope this makes sense.
I really can't understand why Apple uses so low capacity batteries!!! It's a nightmare. Now during the summer holidays it's getting even worse for me. Using the 3G - 4G , the battery lasts less than a half day. Lol.
Just buy two iPhones. Problem solved. Lol.
Good idea
I switched form the iPhone 5S to the Samsung S5 in April.
The S5 battery life is very good. It buries the 5S, and in a pinch, the power saving mode got me through another 4 hours on a measly 7% battery life.
I don't know what iPhone 6 has to offer, but this whole form over function routine is concerning. I don't need a thinner phone as much as I need a longer lasting phone.
...this whole form over function routine is concerning.
That people still pretend this exists after 7 years is concerning.
...this whole form over function routine is concerning.
That people still pretend this exists after 7 years is concerning.
It is my considered opinion that Apple frequently puts form over function. I think the current iMacs are a perfect example. Making the edges skinny yields zero benefit to the user beyond looking pretty while adversely affecting the user experience with access and heat dissipation constraints. One can also argue that the mini could be improved substantially without increasing cost just by making the enclosure a little larger. And, of course, there's the subject of this thread. I don't recall anyone complaining that the iPhone 4 was too heavy, yet the choice to make the iPhone 5 lighter seems to have resulted in a chorus of users who are dissatisfied with battery life.
Obviously there are many people who very much appreciate the size reductions and aesthetics of the current lineup. I am NOT saying they are wrong to feel that way. I *AM* saying that what they like is the FORM of the machine. In some cases achieving that form means making compromises in function. So, even though the choice to produce the form satisfies many, perhaps even the majority of, users, that does not change the fact that it is, by definition, form over function. Putting "curb appeal" ahead of absolute performance is just one compromise among many, including cost vs. performance, weight vs. durability, features vs. battery life. etc.
The question is not whether Apple sometimes prioritizes form over function because it's obvious they do. The question is whether Apple's choices are good or bad. There's no way to determine that absolutely because the decision hinges on the use patterns and preferences of the individual. What's good for you may be bad for me or vice-versa.
...this whole form over function routine is concerning.
That people still pretend this exists after 7 years is concerning.
It is my considered opinion that Apple frequently puts form over function. I think the current iMacs are a perfect example. Making the edges skinny yields zero benefit to the user beyond looking pretty while adversely affecting the user experience with access and heat dissipation constraints. One can also argue that the mini could be improved substantially without increasing cost just by making the enclosure a little larger. And, of course, there's the subject of this thread. I don't recall anyone complaining that the iPhone 4 was too heavy, yet the choice to make the iPhone 5 lighter seems to have resulted in a chorus of users who are dissatisfied with battery life.
Obviously there are many people who very much appreciate the size reductions and aesthetics of the current lineup. I am NOT saying they are wrong to feel that way. I *AM* saying that what they like is the FORM of the machine. In some cases achieving that form means making compromises in function. So, even though the choice to produce the form satisfies many, perhaps even the majority of, users, that does not change the fact that it is, by definition, form over function. Putting "curb appeal" ahead of absolute performance is just one compromise among many, including cost vs. performance, weight vs. durability, features vs. battery life. etc.
The question is not whether Apple sometimes prioritizes form over function because it's obvious they do. The question is whether Apple's choices are good or bad. There's no way to determine that absolutely because the decision hinges on the use patterns and preferences of the individual. What's good for you may be bad for me or vice-versa.
I'm afraid your blanket statements do you no favours. So here's another:
799,999,999 people think that Apple combines form with function to delightful effect.
Nothing wrong with bucking the trend, though. ????
799,999,999 people think that Apple combines form with function to delightful effect.
How does that contradict what I wrote?
That many people LIKE the choices Apple made that compromised the performance or user control over hardware to increase curb appeal does not change the fact that Apple made a compromise in performance or user control over hardware to increase curb appeal.
There is no value judgement in that statement whatsoever.