...I have a first-generation Surface. And I have to say, I love it.
And as coffee tables go, it’s a real conversation starter. ????
Seriously, I actually liked the idea behind the real Surface. Microsoft’s implementation was utter garbage–it ran terrible software, had terrible hardware to back that, and didn’t properly address any situation in which it would have been a joy to use.
Now, were Apple to have made a desk-style touchscreen (as distinct from a desktop multitouch computer), they’d’ve done it all up in a 3” thick enclosure so that it could have actually been PUT places as a real table/desk, etc.
And as coffee tables go, it’s a real conversation starter. ????
Seriously, I actually liked the idea behind the real Surface. Microsoft’s implementation was utter garbage–it ran terrible software, had terrible hardware to back that, and didn’t properly address any situation in which it would have been a joy to use.
The only thing I'd really agree with there is that it is definitely too bulky and heavy (the first-generation version, anyway). I haven't held the third gen Surface in my hands yet, so I must reserve judgement on that.
In so far as the implementation; well, again, thickness and weight were an issue. The only thing that really counter-balances this is the implementation of the kickstand and keyboard (that is, I find that I use it maybe 80% of the time as a "laptop" and 20% of the time as a "tablet").
But aside from that, the hardware quality is pretty strong, the design is reasonably slick (that Type Keyboard is/was a revelation), and the software is pretty decent (that is, you're getting the best of both worlds - tablet-esque stuff and more laptop/desktop-type stuff). Despite its quirks, I haven't minded Windows 8 - I think it makes more sense on the Surface than on a desktop PC, at any rate.
Whenever I eventually replace the Surface, I may go for iPad or something else, but for now I'm pretty pleased with the offering. I think it's something you have to live with for a while to really gain that perspective.
Also, as a side note, I'm using services like OneDrive at the moment...and I've got that installed and synced up on my iMac. So I'm finding that this is working quite well for me. It also means that I'm not really tempted to do the Boot Camp thing on the iMac; I'm sticking to the Surface for the Windows stuff.
The only thing I'd really agree with there is that it is definitely too bulky and heavy (the first-generation version, anyway). I haven't held the third gen Surface in my hands yet, so I must reserve judgement on that.
In so far as the implementation; well, again, thickness and weight were an issue. The only thing that really counter-balances this is the implementation of the kickstand and keyboard (that is, I find that I use it maybe 80% of the time as a "laptop" and 20% of the time as a "tablet").
But aside from that, the hardware quality is pretty strong, the design is reasonably slick (that Type Keyboard is/was a revelation), and the software is pretty decent (that is, you're getting the best of both worlds - tablet-esque stuff and more laptop/desktop-type stuff). Despite its quirks, I haven't minded Windows 8 - I think it makes more sense on the Surface than on a desktop PC, at any rate.
Whenever I eventually replace the Surface, I may go for iPad or something else, but for now I'm pretty pleased with the offering. I think it's something you have to live with for a while to really gain that perspective.
Also, as a side note, I'm using services like OneDrive at the moment...and I've got that installed and synced up on my iMac. So I'm finding that this is working quite well for me. It also means that I'm not really tempted to do the Boot Camp thing on the iMac; I'm sticking to the Surface for the Windows stuff.
so then how can you judge the Pro 3? I have used the Pro 3, it's thinner than the RT 2! Screen beats the Retina Macs at the 12inch size vs 13inch, more pixels packed in a smaller body. If Apple didn't have the "COOL" factor, the Surface would beat the Macbook Air in sales easily as the better product. I actually work part-time in Computer/Tablet sales at Best Buy while I am finishing up my bachelors in CS, and I customers have said they want to get a Mac because their friend told them it was cool and they heard Windows 8 is horrible. Then I show them a nice computer like the Yoga 2 Pro or the Surface Pro 3, get them to click Desktop and see how fast the OS actually is. They then say, well I hear Macs don't get viruses, so I show them built in Windows Defender, and they are shocked how awesome Windows 8 actually is.. I have been ONLY using Defender on multiple PCs since Windows 8 launched and have never gotten close to getting a virus.
...customers have said they want to get a Mac because their friend told them it was cool and they heard Windows 8 is horrible. Then I show them a nice computer like the Yoga 2 Pro or the Surface Pro 3, get them to click Desktop and see how fast the OS actually is. They then say, well I hear Macs don't get viruses, so I show them built in Windows Defender, and they are shocked how awesome Windows 8 actually is.
Isn’t forcibly selling Windows 8 to people against the Geneva Convention?
once people understand that THIS is Windows 8/8.1, they see how wrong they were about it being so horrible.
I have a lot of problems with Windows 8. Almost all of them stem from the fact that THIS is windows 8. The new crap? The stuff that John Q. Moron hates? That’s the good crap. Everything else should be thrown out.
I have a lot of problems with Windows 8. Almost all of them stem from the fact that THIS is windows 8. The new crap? The stuff that John Q. Moron hates? That’s the good crap. Everything else should be thrown out.
so you have problems with Windows 7 Plus? Because that's what Windows 8.1 Desktop mode basically is. It's faster than 7, doesn't freeze, has an improved task manager with startup entry management without registry editing! The new ribbon shortcut menus in the Explorer really come in handy and of course you can press "Win" X to get your Power Menu to manage all of your legacy settings! A quick free download of classic shell can make you happy if you want the legacy menu.
The Ribbon is one of those typical MS screw-ups. Utter and complete crap design. I cannot believe that there are people working at a company that didn't want to tell their developer colleague he was wrong on all fronts designing this. The Ribbon, it's Registry stupidity.
I have problems with a lot of things involving the word ‘plus’...
It’s faster than 7...
Eh...
...doesn’t freeze...
Ehhh...
...an improved task manager...
Yes, that’s one of the few redeeming qualities of Windows 8. The OS still doesn’t seem to comprehend how to handle full screen applications, however, and the Task Manager is often trapped behind a frozen application.
...ribbon... ...come in handy...
I can’t process this in the same sentence. Unless “come in handy” refers to a physical ribbon’s utility in strangling oneself after trying to use Microsoft’s Ribbon.
...legacy settings!
Speaking of which, all the “tweaking” available to Windows and I can’t readjust my icon spacing? Geez.
so then how can you judge the Pro 3? I have used the Pro 3, it's thinner than the RT 2! Screen beats the Retina Macs at the 12inch size vs 13inch, more pixels packed in a smaller body. If Apple didn't have the "COOL" factor with so many millenials and dumb buyers, the Surface would beat the Macbook Air in sales easily as the better product. I actually work part-time in Computer/Tablet sales at Best Buy while I am finishing up my bachelors in CS, and I customers have said they want to get a Mac because their friend told them it was cool and they heard Windows 8 is horrible. Then I show them a nice computer like the Yoga 2 Pro or the Surface Pro 3, get them to click Desktop and see how fast the OS actually is. They then say, well I hear Macs don't get viruses, so I show them built in Windows Defender, and they are shocked how awesome Windows 8 actually is.. I have been ONLY using Defender on multiple PCs since Windows 8 launched and have never gotten close to getting a virus.
Who said I'm judging the Pro 3? I specifically said that I am reserving judgement.
All I am doing is pointing out that the Surface is a good line of products from Microsoft; I think that, broadly speaking, they got these devices right (with only a few caveats). There are some genuinely nice ideas in the Surface products.
Also by the tone of your post, I don't think you really read mine; I was defending the Surface, not attacking it.
As to how Surface compares to MacBook Air...I really have no opinion on that. I can sort of see why Microsoft is making the comparison, but I actually think that the two devices are fairly different.
Quote:
once people understand that THIS is Windows 8/8.1, they see how wrong they were about it being so horrible.
I disagree. For me personally, attempts to shoehorn the "classic" Windows Desktop into Windows 8 isn't desirable. I actually want everything to operate in the metro context. I really dislike moving back and forth between those workspaces based on the application I'm running.
Moving back to Desktop totally defeats the advantages that Windows 8 brings, especially on a device like the Surface, where it's a really natural fit.
I have problems with a lot of things involving the word ‘plus’...
Eh...
Ehhh...
Yes, that’s one of the few redeeming qualities of Windows 8. The OS still doesn’t seem to comprehend how to handle full screen applications, however, and the Task Manager is often trapped behind a frozen application.
I can’t process this in the same sentence. Unless “come in handy” refers to a physical ribbon’s utility in strangling oneself after trying to use Microsoft’s Ribbon.
Speaking of which, all the “tweaking” available to Windows and I can’t readjust my icon spacing? Geez.
how does THIS not come in handy?
and it changes based on what you're doing or what type of folder you're in!
I just got a $1200 ASUS Zenbook UX303 with a QHD Screen, 12GB RAM, an i7 4510 (3.1ghz) and Nvidia 840M graphics. I just fell more in love with Windows 8!
and honestly? it's not faster than 7 to you? You're clearly WRONG as almost all reviews say it's FASTER. And I am saying DESKTOP mode, we aren't discussing ModernUI here. I use DESKTOP 99pct of the time.
That's the bit I don't get, haha. If I were going to use desktop mode all the time, I'd just use OS X, honestly.
The big draw card for me with Windows 8 is the metro UI, because it really is great as a powerful touch interface that extends beautifully with keyboards and so on.
I really hope Microsoft continue to focus on metro UI and begin to phase out the old desktop stuff - or at least make sure that the metro UI does everything it should, so that the desktop UI isn't necessary at all (and then it just becomes an end user preference).
Comments
And as coffee tables go, it’s a real conversation starter. ????
Seriously, I actually liked the idea behind the real Surface. Microsoft’s implementation was utter garbage–it ran terrible software, had terrible hardware to back that, and didn’t properly address any situation in which it would have been a joy to use.
Now, were Apple to have made a desk-style touchscreen (as distinct from a desktop multitouch computer), they’d’ve done it all up in a 3” thick enclosure so that it could have actually been PUT places as a real table/desk, etc.
And as coffee tables go, it’s a real conversation starter. ????
Seriously, I actually liked the idea behind the real Surface. Microsoft’s implementation was utter garbage–it ran terrible software, had terrible hardware to back that, and didn’t properly address any situation in which it would have been a joy to use.
The only thing I'd really agree with there is that it is definitely too bulky and heavy (the first-generation version, anyway). I haven't held the third gen Surface in my hands yet, so I must reserve judgement on that.
In so far as the implementation; well, again, thickness and weight were an issue. The only thing that really counter-balances this is the implementation of the kickstand and keyboard (that is, I find that I use it maybe 80% of the time as a "laptop" and 20% of the time as a "tablet").
But aside from that, the hardware quality is pretty strong, the design is reasonably slick (that Type Keyboard is/was a revelation), and the software is pretty decent (that is, you're getting the best of both worlds - tablet-esque stuff and more laptop/desktop-type stuff). Despite its quirks, I haven't minded Windows 8 - I think it makes more sense on the Surface than on a desktop PC, at any rate.
Whenever I eventually replace the Surface, I may go for iPad or something else, but for now I'm pretty pleased with the offering. I think it's something you have to live with for a while to really gain that perspective.
Also, as a side note, I'm using services like OneDrive at the moment...and I've got that installed and synced up on my iMac. So I'm finding that this is working quite well for me. It also means that I'm not really tempted to do the Boot Camp thing on the iMac; I'm sticking to the Surface for the Windows stuff.
In so far as the implementation...
Ah, you must have missed it. I was talking about the table, not the tablet. The real first Surface.
Ah, you must have missed it. I was talking about the table, not the tablet. The real first Surface.
Oh I see! Haha.
Yes, I remember that... blast from the past. :P
The only thing I'd really agree with there is that it is definitely too bulky and heavy (the first-generation version, anyway). I haven't held the third gen Surface in my hands yet, so I must reserve judgement on that.
In so far as the implementation; well, again, thickness and weight were an issue. The only thing that really counter-balances this is the implementation of the kickstand and keyboard (that is, I find that I use it maybe 80% of the time as a "laptop" and 20% of the time as a "tablet").
But aside from that, the hardware quality is pretty strong, the design is reasonably slick (that Type Keyboard is/was a revelation), and the software is pretty decent (that is, you're getting the best of both worlds - tablet-esque stuff and more laptop/desktop-type stuff). Despite its quirks, I haven't minded Windows 8 - I think it makes more sense on the Surface than on a desktop PC, at any rate.
Whenever I eventually replace the Surface, I may go for iPad or something else, but for now I'm pretty pleased with the offering. I think it's something you have to live with for a while to really gain that perspective.
Also, as a side note, I'm using services like OneDrive at the moment...and I've got that installed and synced up on my iMac. So I'm finding that this is working quite well for me. It also means that I'm not really tempted to do the Boot Camp thing on the iMac; I'm sticking to the Surface for the Windows stuff.
so then how can you judge the Pro 3? I have used the Pro 3, it's thinner than the RT 2! Screen beats the Retina Macs at the 12inch size vs 13inch, more pixels packed in a smaller body. If Apple didn't have the "COOL" factor, the Surface would beat the Macbook Air in sales easily as the better product. I actually work part-time in Computer/Tablet sales at Best Buy while I am finishing up my bachelors in CS, and I customers have said they want to get a Mac because their friend told them it was cool and they heard Windows 8 is horrible. Then I show them a nice computer like the Yoga 2 Pro or the Surface Pro 3, get them to click Desktop and see how fast the OS actually is. They then say, well I hear Macs don't get viruses, so I show them built in Windows Defender, and they are shocked how awesome Windows 8 actually is.. I have been ONLY using Defender on multiple PCs since Windows 8 launched and have never gotten close to getting a virus.
Isn’t forcibly selling Windows 8 to people against the Geneva Convention?
Isn’t forcibly selling Windows 8 to people against the Geneva Convention?
once people understand that THIS is Windows 8/8.1, they see how wrong they were about it being so horrible.
and THIS
I have a lot of problems with Windows 8. Almost all of them stem from the fact that THIS is windows 8. The new crap? The stuff that John Q. Moron hates? That’s the good crap. Everything else should be thrown out.
and how
I have a lot of problems with Windows 8. Almost all of them stem from the fact that THIS is windows 8. The new crap? The stuff that John Q. Moron hates? That’s the good crap. Everything else should be thrown out.
so you have problems with Windows 7 Plus? Because that's what Windows 8.1 Desktop mode basically is. It's faster than 7, doesn't freeze, has an improved task manager with startup entry management without registry editing! The new ribbon shortcut menus in the Explorer really come in handy and of course you can press "Win" X to get your Power Menu to manage all of your legacy settings! A quick free download of classic shell can make you happy if you want the legacy menu.
The Ribbon is one of those typical MS screw-ups. Utter and complete crap design. I cannot believe that there are people working at a company that didn't want to tell their developer colleague he was wrong on all fronts designing this. The Ribbon, it's Registry stupidity.
I have problems with a lot of things involving the word ‘plus’...
Eh...
Ehhh...
Yes, that’s one of the few redeeming qualities of Windows 8. The OS still doesn’t seem to comprehend how to handle full screen applications, however, and the Task Manager is often trapped behind a frozen application.
I can’t process this in the same sentence. Unless “come in handy” refers to a physical ribbon’s utility in strangling oneself after trying to use Microsoft’s Ribbon.
Speaking of which, all the “tweaking” available to Windows and I can’t readjust my icon spacing? Geez.
Sure you can. Space them into oblivion, by hiding them. An innovative way to show the desktop picture. OSX doesn't have that.
so then how can you judge the Pro 3? I have used the Pro 3, it's thinner than the RT 2! Screen beats the Retina Macs at the 12inch size vs 13inch, more pixels packed in a smaller body. If Apple didn't have the "COOL" factor with so many millenials and dumb buyers, the Surface would beat the Macbook Air in sales easily as the better product. I actually work part-time in Computer/Tablet sales at Best Buy while I am finishing up my bachelors in CS, and I customers have said they want to get a Mac because their friend told them it was cool and they heard Windows 8 is horrible. Then I show them a nice computer like the Yoga 2 Pro or the Surface Pro 3, get them to click Desktop and see how fast the OS actually is. They then say, well I hear Macs don't get viruses, so I show them built in Windows Defender, and they are shocked how awesome Windows 8 actually is.. I have been ONLY using Defender on multiple PCs since Windows 8 launched and have never gotten close to getting a virus.
Who said I'm judging the Pro 3? I specifically said that I am reserving judgement.
All I am doing is pointing out that the Surface is a good line of products from Microsoft; I think that, broadly speaking, they got these devices right (with only a few caveats). There are some genuinely nice ideas in the Surface products.
Also by the tone of your post, I don't think you really read mine; I was defending the Surface, not attacking it.
As to how Surface compares to MacBook Air...I really have no opinion on that. I can sort of see why Microsoft is making the comparison, but I actually think that the two devices are fairly different.
I disagree. For me personally, attempts to shoehorn the "classic" Windows Desktop into Windows 8 isn't desirable. I actually want everything to operate in the metro context. I really dislike moving back and forth between those workspaces based on the application I'm running.
Moving back to Desktop totally defeats the advantages that Windows 8 brings, especially on a device like the Surface, where it's a really natural fit.
I have problems with a lot of things involving the word ‘plus’...
Eh...
Ehhh...
Yes, that’s one of the few redeeming qualities of Windows 8. The OS still doesn’t seem to comprehend how to handle full screen applications, however, and the Task Manager is often trapped behind a frozen application.
I can’t process this in the same sentence. Unless “come in handy” refers to a physical ribbon’s utility in strangling oneself after trying to use Microsoft’s Ribbon.
Speaking of which, all the “tweaking” available to Windows and I can’t readjust my icon spacing? Geez.
how does THIS not come in handy?
and it changes based on what you're doing or what type of folder you're in!
I just got a $1200 ASUS Zenbook UX303 with a QHD Screen, 12GB RAM, an i7 4510 (3.1ghz) and Nvidia 840M graphics. I just fell more in love with Windows 8!
and honestly? it's not faster than 7 to you? You're clearly WRONG as almost all reviews say it's FASTER. And I am saying DESKTOP mode, we aren't discussing ModernUI here. I use DESKTOP 99pct of the time.
I use DESKTOP 99pct of the time.
That's the bit I don't get, haha. If I were going to use desktop mode all the time, I'd just use OS X, honestly.
The big draw card for me with Windows 8 is the metro UI, because it really is great as a powerful touch interface that extends beautifully with keyboards and so on.
I really hope Microsoft continue to focus on metro UI and begin to phase out the old desktop stuff - or at least make sure that the metro UI does everything it should, so that the desktop UI isn't necessary at all (and then it just becomes an end user preference).
Oh, that reminds me. I LOVE the sidebar items that can’t be removed and I LOVE the “Folders” dropdown that can’t be removed. /s
Just like the Ribbon! Excruciatingly annoyance all around. The sheer stupidity of such a design is so far off it's lightyears behind.
Then why did you get a half tablet / half desktop machine? It would've made more sense to buy a dedicated device for the purpose it was designed for.
First thing to do after installing Windows is to set everything the way you want it to look...in the Registry.
It's sickening. I had to go hunting though the registry last week just to get rid of the vendor's default background image.