Jony Ive confirms Apple Watch three years in the making as designer's media blitz continues

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  • Reply 121 of 174
    melgross wrote: »
    <div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/182618/jony-ive-confirms-apple-watch-three-years-in-the-making-as-designers-media-blitz-continues/80#post_2611347" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Benjamin Frost</strong> <a href="/t/182618/jony-ive-confirms-apple-watch-three-years-in-the-making-as-designers-media-blitz-continues/80#post_2611347"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /><br /><br />For me, the digital crown reminds me of Steve Jobs's quote:<br /><br />"If you need a stylus, you blew it."</div></div><p>Not really. I stylus is a seperate part</p>
    For me, the digital crown reminds me of Steve Jobs's quote:

    "If you need a stylus, you blew it."

    Not really. A stylus is a seperate part, buttons and dials aren't. This is just like the buttons on the iPhone and iPad. Do you want to get rid of them too? I hope not! The home/start/ID button is a very important part of the devices. This is a very important part of the watch.

    The idea that something new MUST obsolete something old isn't correct. Cars still have wheels, they didn't get rid of them when cars supplanted the buggy. There's no reason to suppose that the crown must also be replaced. All smart watches I've seen have at least on button. Some have more. This seems to be a good way to school, magnify and select. I think you are just trying to be orney [sic].

    No orneriness emanating from me.

    The reason Jobs said that about the stylus was because as soon as you introduce two different modes of using the interface, you confuse the user and lessen the optimisation of the interface.

    The splendid thing about the iPhone was its simple interface. One finger, one touch, that's it. Nothing else. What could be simpler? Everyone immediately knows how to use an iPhone.

    Ive had the choice to do this for the ?Watch, but he spurned it. Having multiple ways of manipulating the interface leads to mediocrity. By way of example, look at Microsoft's awful attempt at the hybrid Surface. There, you have an interface that is optimal for neither a tablet nor a laptop.

    So instead of applying the same great touch interface of the iPhone which could be picked up with no thought, an extra method has to be learnt that is detached from the screen. I think there are good technical reasons why Ive couldn't use the same technology, to be sure, but the result is a fiddly solution that repels user engagement and distracts the user's focus.
  • Reply 122 of 174
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,491member
    No orneriness emanating from me.

    The reason Jobs said that about the stylus was because as soon as you introduce two different modes of using the interface, you confuse the user and lessen the optimisation of the interface.

    The splendid thing about the iPhone was its simple interface. One finger, one touch, that's it. Nothing else. What could be simpler? Everyone immediately knows how to use an iPhone.

    Ive had the choice to do this for the ?Watch, but he spurned it. Having multiple ways of manipulating the interface leads to mediocrity. By way of example, look at Microsoft's awful attempt at the hybrid Surface. There, you have an interface that is optimal for neither a tablet nor a laptop.

    So instead of applying the same great touch interface of the iPhone which could be picked up with no thought, an extra method has to be learnt that is detached from the screen. I think there are good technical reasons why Ive couldn't use the same technology, to be sure, but the result is a fiddly solution that repels user engagement and distracts the user's focus.

    I don't see the logic there. You're ignoring what I said about all the buttons on the phones. The iPhone, and iOS wouldn't work without the, as you put it, "extra method" of needing to click that bottom button to move back or to call forth options. There's no difference between that. And the use of the crown to call forth options and to magnify and scroll. I suppose you would want your finger on the small screen to do all the scrolling, and to do a pinch and spread. Would that satisfy you? It's exactly what they wanted to eliminate.
  • Reply 123 of 174
    melgross wrote: »
    No orneriness emanating from me.

    The reason Jobs said that about the stylus was because as soon as you introduce two different modes of using the interface, you confuse the user and lessen the optimisation of the interface.

    The splendid thing about the iPhone was its simple interface. One finger, one touch, that's it. Nothing else. What could be simpler? Everyone immediately knows how to use an iPhone.

    Ive had the choice to do this for the ?Watch, but he spurned it. Having multiple ways of manipulating the interface leads to mediocrity. By way of example, look at Microsoft's awful attempt at the hybrid Surface. There, you have an interface that is optimal for neither a tablet nor a laptop.

    So instead of applying the same great touch interface of the iPhone which could be picked up with no thought, an extra method has to be learnt that is detached from the screen. I think there are good technical reasons why Ive couldn't use the same technology, to be sure, but the result is a fiddly solution that repels user engagement and distracts the user's focus.

    I don't see the logic there. You're ignoring what I said about all the buttons on the phones. The iPhone, and iOS wouldn't work without the, as you put it, "extra method" of needing to click that bottom button to move back or to call forth options. There's no difference between that. And the use of the crown to call forth options and to magnify and scroll. I suppose you would want your finger on the small screen to do all the scrolling, and to do a pinch and spread. Would that satisfy you? It's exactly what they wanted to eliminate.

    The home button, particularly on the first iPhone, wasn't used for engaging with the interface; it was an escape button solely to take you to the Home Screen. It was redundant for actually using the interface within apps. The digital crown is acting as an extra method of engaging with the interface, hence the flaw in your reasoning.

    As to scrolling: you will still be able to scroll with your finger—that's my whole point! The digital crown is replicating it. In fact, a video posted here by Marvin of someone trying out the scrolling at the keynote showed that it was very jerky; they have a lot of work to do. As to the pinch and zoom: yes, I would prefer to do that with my fingers and I don't think it would be the problem it was made out to be in the keynote. As I've posted elsewhere, the reason they had to denigrate that method wasn't because it wasn't desirable, but because it was not technically possible due to the screen technology.
  • Reply 124 of 174
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post



    Three years to design a $350 iPhone accessory that sits on your wrist so that people don't have to go to all the trouble of taking their iPhone out of their pocket to look at it? I guess this is what passes for "innovation" in the post-Steve era.

    Do you have the foggiest idea of what it takes to innovate? No, I didn't think so!

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BeltsBear View Post

     



    Except that Ive has been designing products before Steve died.  I think the last two designs (iP6, Watch) are not the best Ive has done though. 


    Held a 6 Plus for the first time last night. A beautiful product, technologically ahead of everything on the market in respect of both hardware and software. Design is always a tradeoff between form and function, Ive and his team have produced a brilliant outcome. Communications within Apple must be brilliant too, to have new hardware such as the M7 and new software (including APIs) embodied together generally without fault in new hardware that also places the utmost constraints on design parameters, such as reduced physical profile.

     

    For Apple to draw crowds in Paris without an iPhone, iPad or Mac insight is almost unbelievable. Making the unbelievable believable however, has been Apple's forté.

     

    All the best.

  • Reply 125 of 174
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,491member
    The home button, particularly on the first iPhone, wasn't used for engaging with the interface; it was an escape button solely to take you to the Home Screen. It was redundant for actually using the interface within apps. The digital crown is acting as an extra method of engaging with the interface, hence the flaw in your reasoning.

    As to scrolling: you will still be able to scroll with your finger—that's my whole point! The digital crown is replicating it. In fact, a video posted here by Marvin of someone trying out the scrolling at the keynote showed that it was very jerky; they have a lot of work to do. As to the pinch and zoom: yes, I would prefer to do that with my fingers and I don't think it would be the problem it was made out to be in the keynote. As I've posted elsewhere, the reason they had to denigrate that method wasn't because it wasn't desirable, but because it was not technically possible due to the screen technology.

    No, it was never to just get you back to the home screen. It was always to get you back one step, from wherever you were. It's gained functions as the OS became more sophisticated.

    You don't cover that small screen with the crown, so it's easier to see what you're scrolling.
  • Reply 126 of 174
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    The home button, particularly on the first iPhone, wasn't used for engaging with the interface; it was an escape button solely to take you to the Home Screen. It was redundant for actually using the interface within apps. The digital crown is acting as an extra method of engaging with the interface, hence the flaw in your reasoning.

    As to scrolling: you will still be able to scroll with your finger—that's my whole point! The digital crown is replicating it. In fact, a video posted here by Marvin of someone trying out the scrolling at the keynote showed that it was very jerky; they have a lot of work to do. As to the pinch and zoom: yes, I would prefer to do that with my fingers and I don't think it would be the problem it was made out to be in the keynote. As I've posted elsewhere, the reason they had to denigrate that method wasn't because it wasn't desirable, but because it was not technically possible due to the screen technology.

    Agreed. This will lead to the user constantly appearing to be picking at their wrist.
  • Reply 127 of 174
    melgross wrote: »
    The home button, particularly on the first iPhone, wasn't used for engaging with the interface; it was an escape button solely to take you to the Home Screen. It was redundant for actually using the interface within apps. The digital crown is acting as an extra method of engaging with the interface, hence the flaw in your reasoning.

    As to scrolling: you will still be able to scroll with your finger—that's my whole point! The digital crown is replicating it. In fact, a video posted here by Marvin of someone trying out the scrolling at the keynote showed that it was very jerky; they have a lot of work to do. As to the pinch and zoom: yes, I would prefer to do that with my fingers and I don't think it would be the problem it was made out to be in the keynote. As I've posted elsewhere, the reason they had to denigrate that method wasn't because it wasn't desirable, but because it was not technically possible due to the screen technology.

    No, it was never to just get you back to the home screen. It was always to get you back one step, from wherever you were. It's gained functions as the OS became more sophisticated.

    You don't cover that small screen with the crown, so it's easier to see what you're scrolling.

    Come now; you're bending the truth.

    If you're in any app, you navigate by touch alone. If you press the home button, you're leaving the app. That's not taking you one step back; it's taking you away.

    Aside from accessibility, the home button has only really got Touch ID going for it. I hate the double tap on the iPhone for app switching, as I much prefer the four finger swipe on my iPad. Why can't we have a two or three finger swipe on the iPhone? There's enough room. I try and avoid the home button as much as possible on the iPad.
  • Reply 128 of 174
    sennensennen Posts: 1,465member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pooch View Post





    Your use of the word "then" here, to join the two thoughts about jobs' resignation and his death, implies that his death is something steve consciously chose to do.



    "he consciously decided to resign", then "he consciously decided to die". and i imagine that couldn't be further from the truth.

     

    Sorry, I don't read it that way at all.

  • Reply 129 of 174
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,525member
    Hey wow man, what time is it?
  • Reply 130 of 174
    quinney wrote: »
    Hey wow man, what time is it?

    3.50 a.m.
  • Reply 131 of 174
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,113member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    Steve was CEO so he had the final say. Designers would typically show him three things - two were sacrificial lambs for the one they knew he would like. But we also knew there were times where Steve needed to be convinced or had his mind changed. Or times where he flat out was wrong - like when Jon Rubinstein wanted to put a CD-ROM tray in the iMac (so it could be used to burn CDs) but Steve insisted on a slot loading drive for purely aesthetic reasons.



    With arguments like these cropping up so soon after Steve's death, it provides a better understanding of how today's Holy Bibles became such a mish-mash.

  • Reply 132 of 174
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Jony is overweight, not a proper representable for Apple. He may design, but TC is more fit and HeathKit needs role models. Jony isn't it. Fashion no way. the design is not elegant in my opinion.

  • Reply 133 of 174
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post



    With that statement you just placed yourself into a class of consumers far far from the edge of fashion and with a pitifully thin wallet. But most of all you show your ignorance of a whole strata of high-end markets. Vogue is an expensively produced magazine that is not in any financial trouble and unless what it sells isn't important to thousands of well-heeled shoppers it would be history like it's lesser ilk.




    Vogue featured Kim Kartrashian and Kanye West on its cover. I rest my case.

    This read desperation- Fashionistas should flock to Apple not the other way around.

    Well you got me there...sucked all the air out of my argument.

  • Reply 134 of 174
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    mstone wrote: »
    Jony is overweight, not a proper representable for Apple. He may design, but TC is more fit and HeathKit needs role models. Jony isn't it. Fashion no way. the design is not elegant in my opinion.

    Oh-oh. You didn't read the Vogue article? He and Newson just busted your SUV as being overweight. People who drive 5000-pound cars shouldn't rag on others' inelegance.

    Actually, Jony's tactile designs are largely a product of his mesomorphic physicality. Such people express themselves from their innards, and they're not afraid to show their love of matter, the material itself, in their work. By contrast, an ectomorph, a beanpole sort of person, may not be able to feel his way fully into an object like the iPhone 6, so locked in visual surface impression and fearful of touch is the result of being that body type.

    The very end of the article illustrates perfectly that the elegance of the watch is all in its physicality, the way it appeals to the auditory-tactile sense. Don't forget that sound is tactile, the sensing of physical waves.
  • Reply 135 of 174
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    I may not be able to post again any time  soon as I am going into surgery for pulmonary  thrombosis. If I don't make it, I wish you all well.

  • Reply 136 of 174
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    mstone wrote: »
    I may not be able to post again any time  soon as I am going into surgery for pulmonary  thrombosis. If I don't make it, I wish you all well.

    Best wishes, speedy recovery. I'm thinking it'll go fine. Apologies for giving you a hard time. Now I'll really be sending you and the doctors good thougts!
  • Reply 137 of 174
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    I may not be able to post again any time  soon as I am going into surgery for pulmonary  thrombosis. If I don't make it, I wish you all well.


    Wish you a speedy recovery. :)

  • Reply 138 of 174
    mstone wrote: »
    I may not be able to post again any time  soon as I am going into surgery for pulmonary  thrombosis. If I don't make it, I wish you all well.

    Good luck!

    I hope you have a successful operation.
  • Reply 139 of 174
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    popnfresh wrote: »
    Three years to design a $350 iPhone accessory that sits on your wrist so that people don't have to go to all the trouble of taking their iPhone out of their pocket to look at it? I guess this is what passes for "innovation" in the post-Steve era.

    1) Final features haven't been announced. 2) its v1. 3) it's the beginning of a new platform. 4) "smaller than a Nomand. Lame"

    Nice try.
  • Reply 140 of 174
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    pazuzu wrote: »
    Not to mention who can afford to buy anything in Vogue anyways. Or even want to for that matter? Who cares about fashtards?

    hmm, people that arent you? maybe?

    the self-centered egotism of the technopriest class is mind boggling.
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