Samsung warns of massive 60% decline in profits for Q3, cites stiff smartphone competition

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  • Reply 81 of 222
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,877moderator
    mr4js wrote: »
    Looking for a new fridge. No way I buy Samsung.
    freerange wrote:
    Just bought a 50" LCD TV. the sales clerk recommended Samsung and I said no FK'n way and purchased a beautiful LG model. Go FK yourself Samesung! Oops, you already did!
    acgmph wrote:
    Had to buy a TV last month and the two options were Samsung and LG. Chose LG because f**k Samsung. The BestBuy guy was flabbergasted, but said I was not the only one. Our boycott is working

    These statements tend to sound very anecdotal but Samsung noted a higher than expected drop in TV units. Samsung sells under 60m TV units worldwide per year. There are over 200m Apple product sales every year. It won't be 200m households but Samsung's constant negative advertising against Apple could well have driven a significant amount of buyers of their product lines to competitors even if buyers didn't do it intentionally.

    Still, I expect smartphones to be responsible for a significant part of the drop as they make up about 2/3 of their profits. Their profits have bent by more than half - that's a serious design flaw. They haven't really put up anything new this year, the Note 4 looks the same as the Note 3:

    1000

    The Galaxy Alpha is just a completely random shot in the dark and the S5 is old news and also not significantly different from the S4.
    where are all the usual android and samscum apologist?

    Samsung doesn't have the budget to pay them any more.
  • Reply 82 of 222
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post



    Ultimately, Samsung is quickly discovering that they had very little brand loyalty from consumers. They're not Apple.



    Most Android buyers just take whatever the salesman is pushing that day. Android fanatics haven't liked Samsung for years, the current hip brands are Motorola, LG, and Sony (who does make some amazingly good phones, especially the Z3 Compact).



    The loyalty is to Android, however, not Samsung.



    Samsung is just a box builder. And box builders are interchangeable.



    Why is it that we had to wade through 16 "Kill Samsung!  Burn them!" style comments before someone actually said something intelligent? 

     

    Anyways, you nailed it Falcon.  I'm an Android user these days but I feel no real loyalty to any one company.  I simply go to where the technology meets my needs when it is time to buy a phone.  Doesn't matter if it's Android, iOS or WP (sorry BB).   I had the original Samsung Galaxy Captivate and it was a great phone but after seeing the S4, I was turned off by the sheer number of features.  Some of them were neat and have become standard on all platforms but some of them weren't for me.  While the previous 16 commenters before you deride Samsung as being crap, they have no idea how much they owe to the other manufacturers.   Whether they believe it or not, there have been quite a few recently released iOS features that can be directly tied to Android and Windows Phone.  Competition is good.  I love the fact that the iPhone is in the top 5 phones because it pushes everyone to develop and create in order to climb the ladder or stay at the top.   

     

    I think Samsung was too slow in reacting the phone material complaints (should have upgraded it for the S5) because it just seemed too iterative from a hardware design point of view.  Granted, it is a cash cow for them but you can't fall asleep in this industry - just ask Blackberry and Palm about that.

     

    I also find it that there are so many Samsung articles on this site which is called "Apple Insider".  I understand that they need the clickbait style articles to pay the bills but I'm starting to think they need to change the site name to something a bit more broad due to all the Android/Google coverage here.

  • Reply 83 of 222
    konqerror wrote: »
    What do they have left to pursue that can turn profits around dramatically?

    Split the company.

    Seems like an obvious suggestion, until you realize that they're a chaebol.

    So, zero chance of that happening.
  • Reply 84 of 222
    thedbathedba Posts: 690member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cfugle View Post



    Unless another big Asian company appears out of nowhere, a large loss in competition is a bad thing for consumers. I am an Apple fan through and through but even Apple can get lazy without a desire to improve due to market forces. The small amount of changes Samsung did to alter the smartphone market did have an effect on Apple.... It forced then to maintain lower end devices longer for different zones to be relevant in India and newer markets, it pushed them to make sharper, brighter and better displays to compete.As we now see, phablet-sized devices that we have to give Samsung the credit for, are now back ordered up the 'ging-gong' everywhere it has launched with next-launch countries taking on massive pre-orders for these newer larger iPhones...

    Samsung sold enough product around the world to make a difference to Apple. That's what matters here. Imagine if you will a Samsung free world where iPhones are only launched every 3-4 years and IOS match the rollout speed. Which other manufacturer today can keep up with Apple worldwide...none.

    I don't buy the "If it wasn't for the competition...Apple wouldn't have...." argument.

    Let's take a look at recent history.

     

    Before 2007, all the competition was doing is trying to make a better BlackBerry. Oh yeah there the disaster known as Windows Mobile also, I jokingly called it, the Windows XP mini-me. What did Apple do? Remember?

     

    How about the cries that Apple should make a netbook? Remember that? What did Apple do? Two things actually. The iPad and the MacBook Air. And guess what? The world is much better for it. Good riddance to netbooks.

     

    What else was the competition doing before Apple came along? Let's see, Linux was supposed to be the great disruptor. Yet what Apple did is, not in one gigantic death blow but in several small steps, they totally disrupted the great monopolist known as Microsoft.

    Remember when the latest and greatest Windows would cost anywhere from $99 to $299 just to upgrade? Remember Windows home and small business, professional, full editions? Remember that just to get the latest MS Word or Excel, you'd have to splurge over $99 each?

    Yet Apple in several small steps, totally eradicated that notion. It also showed the world, that most of us don't need overly complicated software that we're going to use only 1% of said features.  Good riddance to the "ribbons".

     

    Apple did all this without being forced by the competition. I'm sure more examples can be found, if we just take a step back and reflect. 

  • Reply 85 of 222
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tmay View Post

     

    If it wasn't Samsung, it would be some other large company competing with Apple; it might even have been Google at some point. I"m not sure some of what you attribute to competition with Samsung was actually competition or just good business practices of Apple, because last I heard from the competition, Apple was building a "2012" device.


     

    That 2012 device... Was kicking Samsung and everyone's ass all through 2014... Must suck to be beat up my the alledged 90 pound weakling ;-)

  • Reply 86 of 222
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    Seems like an obvious suggestion, until you realize that they're a chaebol.



    So, zero chance of that happening.

     

    You'd have to split those companies 50 ways ;-). Though, HP got a lot of split to in the last 15 years.

  • Reply 87 of 222
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    ireland wrote: »

    troll harder

    you didn't see the obvious sarcasm? rather than say "Apple hasn't been the same..." he said "Samsung".
  • Reply 88 of 222
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    I have to wonder if Apple had larger iPhone models designed for previous years but waited until this year when their previous models were running into a growth wall and Samsung et al. were starting to see a decline after running into a growth wall. A part of me says that's unlikely but the move to the iPhone 6 series this year is likely to not only boost iPhone unit sales, revenue and profits, but also increase their ASP as well further cause harm to their competitors in the process by eating into their higher-end market. That just sounds like it's too well thought out to purely be a coincidence.



    I always enjoy your comments SolipsismX - out of all the Apple supporters on here, you are the only one that can see things objectively and who is willing to call it as you see it.  Just thought I would point it out since your probably don't get enough credit for your stance and your insights.  The angry mob crowd gets a bit tiresome and I can see why there is a "block" user feature on here (still find that option a little narrow minded but hey, it's just my opinion ;)

     

    On topic, I think Samsung would have taken a big hit had the iPhone come out with a larger screen size last year.  It was part of my decision to move away from the iPhone and while there were other reasons at the time (that have recently been rectified since Apple has been opening up the phone with each API release), I am open to considering the iPhone for my next purchase now that they have a decent sized screen (got the LG G2 and will be keeping that for at least another year - love the knock on / voice activated camera shutter and power/volume button placement)

     

    Samsung has been putting out the same style for too long and they were ripe for a beat down.  The features on their phones are pretty cool and while some of them have stuck and while some have not, it was pretty overwhelming to see all that when you first turn on the phone (it was my Dad's) and see all that.  A point to Apple for integrating/hiding the features/options into the OS and focusing on a couple of key features with each release instead of putting out 10 things at once.   Pros and cons to each I think.

     

    Anyways, I think Samsung is in for a rough ride and hopefully Sony will get some recognition for the awesome work they've been doing for the past year.  Also I'm hoping that some of that market share / revenue has gone to HTC, Motorola and LG since they have been putting out some great features on their phones for the past 2 years and they need it.  The Samsung marketing has been a bit much for me and I would like the company to become a bit more humble.  Who knows, maybe they will jump into the Tizen world and we will see how that goes.  

     

    Regardless of what happens, it's fun to watch the industry shift around as we are still in the gold rush days of the smartphone!  We've come a long way since the Palm!

  • Reply 89 of 222
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,825member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zippy2shoes View Post

     



    I always enjoy your comments SolipsismX - out of all the Apple supporters on here, you are the only one that can see things objectively and who is willing to call it as you see it.  Just thought I would point it out since your probably don't get enough credit for your stance and your insights.  The angry mob crowd gets a bit tiresome and I can see why there is a "block" user feature on here (still find that option a little narrow minded but hey, it's just my opinion ;)

     

    On topic, I think Samsung would have taken a big hit had the iPhone come out with a larger screen size last year.  It was part of my decision to move away from the iPhone and while there were other reasons at the time (that have recently been rectified since Apple has been opening up the phone with each API release), I am open to considering the iPhone for my next purchase now that they have a decent sized screen (got the LG G2 and will be keeping that for at least another year - love the knock on / voice activated camera shutter and power/volume button placement)

     

    Samsung has been putting out the same style for too long and they were ripe for a beat down.  The features on their phones are pretty cool and while some of them have stuck and while some have not, it was pretty overwhelming to see all that when you first turn on the phone (it was my Dad's) and see all that.  A point to Apple for integrating/hiding the features/options into the OS and focusing on a couple of key features with each release instead of putting out 10 things at once.   Pros and cons to each I think.

     

    Anyways, I think Samsung is in for a rough ride and hopefully Sony will get some recognition for the awesome work they've been doing for the past year.  Also I'm hoping that some of that market share / revenue has gone to HTC, Motorola and LG since they have been putting out some great features on their phones for the past 2 years and they need it.  The Samsung marketing has been a bit much for me and I would like the company to become a bit more humble.  Who knows, maybe they will jump into the Tizen world and we will see how that goes.  

     

    Regardless of what happens, it's fun to watch the industry shift around as we are still in the gold rush days of the smartphone!  We've come a long way since the Palm!


    Completely omitting the fact that Apple is absorbing most of the profits, and actually looks to increase that, where exactly are you seeing "gold rush days" for Android OEM's.

     

    Because what I see is a race to the bottom, and as a fact, your, as well as most of the other Android users, lack of loyalty to any particular Android vendor is the what is driving that race. All predetermined because OEM's don't control the OS, Google does.

  • Reply 90 of 222

    I have a nice Scamsung 'frig. I like it. And I had a really cool ScumSuck microwave. Although their TV ads for smartphones make me never want to buy another ScamScum product again. Note to SameSong: NEVER INSULT YOUR POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS or TRY to make them look stupid.

  • Reply 91 of 222
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,523member
    "cites-stiff-smartphone-competition"

    Translate: Apple made it more difficult for Samsung to steal IP.

    You have to wonder if they ever even considered they would not get away with that. I am sure they thought just as the Japanese had done in the 1960's they could copy western technology all the way to supremacy.

    I suspect Samsung never expected Apple to be so overwhelming in blocking that strategy. All those court battles actually seemed to have worked. It was never about money for Apple, whatever the media seemed to think, it was holding Samsung firmly by the balls while Apple shot ahead with new technologies Samsung were now unable to copy. By the time the large hand of Apple's lawyers was removed from Samsung's privates they were years behind and could no longer copy. Game over. The only shame is Samsung were only a pawn in Google's game. It was Google that Apple should have destroyed legally IMHO. It is Android itself that is the real evil face of IP theft.
  • Reply 92 of 222
    rob55rob55 Posts: 1,291member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post

     

    If they really had confidence in their own products, they would let the products speak for themselves and not let the competition dictate when their products launch. And if they had confidence in the Note 4, why not show how great the product is, rather than spend millions on "WE WERE FIRST WITH BIG SCREENS!" commercials? It's like junior high schoolers are running the show, and they care more about scoring a few cheap shots on Apple than actually promoting their own products.


     

    This describes them perfectly. Well said!

  • Reply 93 of 222
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,234member

    This article just made my day.

  • Reply 94 of 222

    I always enjoy your comments SolipsismX - out of all the Apple supporters on here, you are the only one that can see things objectively and who is willing to call it as you see it...

    Why is it that we had to wade through 16 "Kill Samsung!  Burn them!" style comments before someone actually said something intelligent? Anyways...

    You're on a site called AppleInsider dude, what'd you expect? You go on to politely and thoroughly explain everything we've all known and talked about. Which is that Samesung doesn't make a good phone, and competition is good. Now that the pleasantries are out of the way...

    Apples phones are way better than the competition, and here's why: no feature creep, no gimmicks, good balance of battery life - size of phone, great materials, 64 bit OS, ecosystem is best of all ecosystems by far, large install base of latest OS means features like health book and home kit will be the first of their kind to succeed, best security and finger print technology, will drive mass digital credit card adoption for first time, Siri is the best assistant - especially for geofencing and logical tasks, they use a lot of green energy which is a huge deal, and mostly just the basics.. they're not trying to simply get your next $200, instead they're mostly trying to make a product they're proud of. You know that as soon as you use one of their products for a few weeks. That makes a big difference, i.e. My brother in law has the latest Galaxy, and always tries to talk it up in front of me, and asked me to takes some photos. I pressed the camera shutter button every way I could, but could only take like 5 photos for 20 presses. And the shots looked blurry and noisy, it was kind of dark in the room. I showed him the photos - which was hard because it was slow at detecting my finger swipes, and wouldn't show the next picture until I swiped a couple times. He put his phone away. A few minutes later I wanted to take some more, and I wasn't trying to show off.. but I got out my iPhone 6 and clicked the shutter about 7 times, and was happy with 6 of them. And it took the photos when I pressed, so I got the moments I wanted. What I like about Apple, is that you get all the latest features of any other company, plus awesome style, plus the features are rock solid and don't have feature creep. That's what I mean by making a product you're proud of, instead of one with gimmicks.
  • Reply 95 of 222
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tmay View Post

     

    Completely omitting the fact that Apple is absorbing most of the profits, and actually looks to increase that, where exactly are you seeing "gold rush days" for Android OEM's.

     

    Because what I see is a race to the bottom, and as a fact, your, as well as most of the other Android users, lack of loyalty to any particular Android vendor is the what is driving that race. All predetermined because OEM's don't control the OS, Google does.


     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tmay View Post

     

    Completely omitting the fact that Apple is absorbing most of the profits, and actually looks to increase that, where exactly are you seeing "gold rush days" for Android OEM's.

     

    Because what I see is a race to the bottom, and as a fact, your, as well as most of the other Android users, lack of loyalty to any particular Android vendor is the what is driving that race. All predetermined because OEM's don't control the OS, Google does.


     

    Sorry, when I said "Gold Rush", I meant the excitement of the developing smartphone features among all the manufacturers as opposed to the actual profits.  Yeah, Apple is by far the winner in the profits race - I don't see any other manufacturer getting those kind of numbers but then again, to be successful, you don't need to be in Apple's profit sphere. 

     

    I personally don't care about a companies profit margins or revenue (as long as they are financially viable for the long term) - I tend to care more about the products and features a company offers.  I also realize that no one company will stay at the top of their industry forever.  IBM, Microsoft, MySpace are just recent tech sector examples - someday we will look back and chuckle over the infamous Apple/Google rivalry while some other companies joust for top spot. 

     

    Also I don't subscribe to the notion of corporate loyalty.  A corporation exists to make profit.  Plain and simple.   They do not care about my well being or my ego.  Everything they do is based around the notion of increasing their revenue.  Once I understood that, it was easy for me to figure out the what and why companies do what they do. 

  • Reply 96 of 222
    cfugle wrote: »
    I am an Apple fan through and through but even Apple can get lazy without a desire to improve due to market forces.

    Bullsh1t. You know nothing about Apple.

    "Apple fan..." Sure.
  • Reply 97 of 222
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    According to analysts, Apple effectively blocked out Samsung's big-screen smartphone niche at the top-end with the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus for the quarter ending in September. Apple's latest releases are the biggest iPhones to date and, with the 5.5-inch iPhone 6 Plus, mark an entry into the so-called "phablet" game where the Galaxy lineup has gone nearly uncontested for years.

    I have begun to wonder if this was the primary factor in Apple's decision to make the iPhone 6 Plus.  Apple probably still thinks it's a fad or a phase in consumer preference, and that part of the market will eventually migrate back to normal-sized phones.  The only thing that will be left is a small percentage of the market that "can't live without" a big ass phone.  At the time, the phablet market was the only place Samsung could really claim a victory, and that was only because Apple didn't play there.  I wonder if Apple just decided to jump into that market to beat Samsung at its own game.

     

    It has clearly both hurt and threatened Samsung.  Just look at the desperation in some of their recent ads.

  • Reply 98 of 222
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I have to wonder if Apple had larger iPhone models designed for previous years but waited until this year when their previous models were running into a growth wall and Samsung et al. were starting to see a decline after running into a growth wall. A part of me says that's unlikely but the move to the iPhone 6 series this year is likely to not only boost iPhone unit sales, revenue and profits, but also increase their ASP as well further cause harm to their competitors in the process by eating into their higher-end market. That just sounds like it's too well thought out to purely be a coincidence.

    I think that they played it safe with the iPhone 5, which gave them at least a one year window to see if the bigger screen phones were just a fad, or a progression that they could no longer afford to ignore.
  • Reply 99 of 222
    herbapouherbapou Posts: 2,227member
    Ultimately, Samsung is quickly discovering that they had very little brand loyalty from consumers. They're not Apple.

    Most Android buyers just take whatever the salesman is pushing that day. Android fanatics haven't liked Samsung for years, the current hip brands are Motorola, LG, and Sony (who does make some amazingly good phones, especially the Z3 Compact).

    The loyalty is to Android, however, not Samsung.

    Samsung is just a box builder. And box builders are interchangeable.

    I have noticed this too.
  • Reply 100 of 222

    Samsung should have known substance over form.

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