Samsung warns of massive 60% decline in profits for Q3, cites stiff smartphone competition

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  • Reply 121 of 222
    diegogdiegog Posts: 134member
    Samsung Mobile doesn't make DRAM. Their profits are reported separately from that production. While Samsung the conglomerate is doing fine, their mobile division is suffering.
    Apple is going to be giving them more cash next year, sadly. Reports are saying that Apple will be buying so much DRAM next year that Samsung (and the other companies) will be adding production lines just to meet demand. They're expecting Apple to jump from consuming 16.5% of the worlds mobile DRAM output to a whopping 25%.

    http://press.trendforce.com/press/20140925-1658.html
  • Reply 122 of 222
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I have to wonder if Apple had larger iPhone models designed for previous years but waited until this year when their previous models were running into a growth wall and Samsung et al. were starting to see a decline after running into a growth wall. A part of me says that's unlikely but the move to the iPhone 6 series this year is likely to not only boost iPhone unit sales, revenue and profits, but also increase their ASP as well further cause harm to their competitors in the process by eating into their higher-end market. That just sounds like it's too well thought out to purely be a coincidence.

    I think there's evidence that Apple spends two (or three) years between start to finish on each phone, based on comments made by Jony Ive and others.
  • Reply 123 of 222
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    ........  It was Google that Apple should have destroyed legally IMHO. It is Android itself that is the real evil face of IP theft.

    You may even narrow it down to a single person called Eric Schmidt.......

  • Reply 124 of 222
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    I'm coming late to this party as usual, and since the grave-dancing is over, I'd like to address what IMO is wrong with ALL of Apple's competitors, as well as what Apple can do better to keep them all down.

    First and foremost: the OS is the problem for all of them.

    As TheWhiteFalcon said, they're all "box makers" for Google and reliant on Google to make the user experience pleasant. The problem for the box-makers, is how to differentiate their box, when the user-facing and IMO most important part of all tech, is how does it work. I also agree it's the reason why Microsoft is having such a hard time picking themselves up, although they're getting closer every day to delivering something truly "desirable".

    Second... and this may appear to be racist, but it's not meant to be: Asian tech companies across all industries have absolutely no taste or clue when it comes to user interfaces when left to develop one on their own. Whether cars, cameras, washing machines, TVs or phones. They just can not design a pleasing user interface. Taken to the next step, I would also go so far as to say that the majority can not do industrial design on their own either. They're constantly looking to the west for inspiration but not understanding the principles and discipline behind the lines, shapes, and form that make a Mercedes, Porsche, Braun, B&O, Apple, Armani, Piaget, etc. etc. pleasing and desirable. Design that's both organic, yet sleek to hold and lust after in a very ethereal and sexual sense.

    One Asian company that has consistently got industrial design right... Sony... also decided early on to look to Europe for it's design inspiration. That Apple has had a lead designer schooled in European taste and disciplined design, is undeniably a major factor in it's rise to dominance in the consumer tech space. Building upon that design nucleus with further hires from the taste-makers in Europe, Apple has doubled down on the fact that their Asian... and even American counterparts at Microsoft and Google, will continue to look in all of the wrong places why their devices are not selling at the top. Cheap imitations will always be discounted and need to fight each other out in the sale bins. Originals, with a strong and timeless aesthetic... will always be admired and desired by aficionados and connoisseurs. Trends... or products made just to fill a space, will never enjoy that added value proposition.

    Yes, I've made my case to put Apple on a pedestal... and now I'll be the first to kick the stool out from under them. In more than a few threads here and elsewhere, it's been duly noted that Apple is compromising some of that quality that has put them on the pedestal in the first place. I'm not talking about the stellar tech or hardware (f*ck Bendgate!), I'm talking about the things that most people actually SEE and FEEL, both physically and subconsciously.

    Anybody can do aluminium, glass, corners and chamfered bezels if they want to, but NOBODY... or at least not yet, have shown a talent for the subliminal, which is the entire object and most importantly it's OS. There's some nasty design "cracks" and inconsistencies that NEED to be addressed pronto. In addition, the most important part of any system, is that it must be stable and reliable 99.9% of the time. It must disappear as much as possible. It needs to "Just Work" consistently.

    TL;DR: If Samsung ever wants to play the game as a pro player, they need to get some "taste" and design sense; and if Apple wants to stay at the top of the pedestal, they must tackle their lackadaisical attitude towards software and stability of late... and rediscover their own design principles.

    I can deal with customers that have heard the last Apple-doom rumor regarding hardware (again, f*ck Bendgate!)... but Apple, please do not put us in the position of making excuses for bad design choices or unstable OSes and updates(!) I've been through that game with MS stuff, I do NOT expect to relive those years of frustration ever with an Apple device in my hands or in front of me. Why? Because it's not necessary to even contemplate if Apple reads and believes their very own sales, marketing, product and design principles.

    The End... "Finally!"... is heard in a roar and accompanied by a torrent of boredom-induced tears that raises the oceans.... which tells me... surf's up... :smokey:
  • Reply 125 of 222
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,341member

    Kind of amusing to see the allegiance switching going on in the FanDroid army. Check out c|net for example. How quickly they went from “Samsung Rules!” to “Samsung Sucks!” as they search for the next iPhone killer. That’s a problem Apple doesn’t have. The FanDroid army will jump from one OEM to another based on the perception of the OEM’s ability to destroy Apple. It’s hilarious to watch. They make their buying decisions based on their hatred of Apple, not the quality of the platform they choose.

  • Reply 126 of 222
    matrix07matrix07 Posts: 1,993member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tmay View Post

     

    There was an interesting story WRT those larger TV models. It seems that buyers given the choice of 60 inch, 70 inch, and 80 inch would preferentially go for the 70 inch as the 80 inch was seen as "too big". Sharp then creates a 90 inch, and all of the sudden, the 80 inch seems just right and the 90 inch was "too big". Savvy marketing.

     

    I've been buying LG products for awhile, and no problems, but I'd love to have one of the Sharp Quattron models.




    Mine is Quattron LED 72". It's really nice! No need for anything Samsung here. Hurray!

  • Reply 127 of 222
    I just came from Cnet, and the excuses from some of the Android supporters are just plain ludicrous.

    Accordingly to their logic, Apple is doomed even as it continues to report ever-increasing profits every year. Conversely, it's considered impressive that Samsung can still rake in 4 billion in profits given that everyone else is reporting net losses, never mind that however you spin it, it's still a 60% dip.

    I have heard of double standards, but this one takes the cake.
  • Reply 128 of 222
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    I think that they played it safe with the iPhone 5, which gave them at least a one year window to see if the bigger screen phones were just a fad, or a progression that they could no longer afford to ignore.

    Remember the iPhone 5 pulled the iPhone from a 3:2 to 1 6:9 aspect ratio, whilst keeping the pixel width the same. I can see how moving fro a 3:2 3.5" display to a 16:9 4.7" display YoY would be a lot of change for Apple to put on developers which would also be affect users.

    Personally, I think the strongest argument against these larger displays in previous years is the display resolutions while using an accurate display, a power SoC, and the battery life to make it a great product. I don't think that would have been possible when the iPhone 5 was coming out considering its A6 chip was built using an 32nm lithography and we're down to 14nm today, after a shrink every year since then.

    I think there's evidence that Apple spends two (or three) years between start to finish on each phone, based on comments made by Jony Ive and others.

    Yes, but I don't think it's out of the question for Apple to have built a couple different sizes (or other styles) in case things change in that 2-3 year window from start to finish. We did see a large number of prototypes in the Apple v Samsung case, so maybe they still played with a couple designs that they wanted to push along the way to prevent themselves from being backed into a corner if cultural changes (like a desire for a larger display) does happen.

    The way I see it Apple's biggest strengths are their ability to grow multiple product lines from what they learned from other product lines (e.g.: Mac OS X » iOS » efficient frameworks in iOS moved back into Mac OS X, and milled aluminium MBP cases » milled aluminium casing for iPhones), but I see their biggest weakness is their relatively slow reaction time to market changes because they don't like to cut corners. An extreme example are those Chinese knockoffs that copy the look of everything external based on a few leaks.
  • Reply 129 of 222
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,398member

    That's a clever move by Samsung. They expect an earnings loss so call it long before it happens and claim a high expected loss so it looks good when they don't lose as much as they predicted. Way to subvert expectations. Either way, there'll be people spinning the story to make it good news for Samsung.

  • Reply 130 of 222

    I agree that ANY company that provides competition to Apple is good. It does not have to be Samsung. And I personally am thrilled on the success of this amazing and thoughtful company but in business a company can respond to market forced or sit in the corner and get erased. That is my point. Change is almost as important and being best. There was a time not so long ago that Apple stood on it's haunches mass producing crap computers in a million variations just as HP and Dell do still today. The multiple level products sku's were marketed as beginner, skilled and professional yet one products innards were barely different between the levels but pricing and packaging was. I bought and supports these systems at a time when Apple lacked focus and kick-ass motivation... many of the nasty forum comments I saw regarding my post come from juniors that never existed in the 80's and were not even a formed sperm at the time. So I'll just ignore them. I think it's our duty as buying public to keep a good company afloat and keep them on their toes. To keep voicing the changes we want and to praise them when it's due.

     

    The downside to Samsung's arrogance is that their corporate image is rotten to the core. Whereas Apple has worked deeply at theirs for the majority of their existence. I believe the next true competition will have the similar principles as corporate responsibility, corporate image and quality merchandise all go hand in hand for a successful company in the future. Samsung's unfortunate lack of ethics hurt it more than anything but they appear to be happy in attack mode opposed to creating the best product out there.

     

    I will rejoice everyday that Apple remains and ethical and top electronics manufacturer and service supplier. They set a standard that apears unmatchable.

  • Reply 131 of 222

    GE outsources manufacturing to Samsung now. As do 70% of the American appliance sector. Welcome to the rebadged world.

  • Reply 132 of 222

    Given that Samsung eats Apple's lunch for every iPhone or iPad produced, they are just setting themselves up for lower expectations on purpose.

     

    Maybe someday Apple will bid Samsung farewell for good when other OEMs can finally produce quality silicon.

  • Reply 133 of 222
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post



    I'm coming late to this party as usual, and since the grave-dancing is over, I'd like to address what IMO is wrong with ALL of Apple's competitors, as well as what Apple can do better to keep them all down.



    First and foremost: the OS is the problem for all of them.

    [...]

    TL;DR: If Samsung ever wants to play the game as a pro player, they need to get some "taste" and design sense; and if Apple wants to stay at the top of the pedestal, they must tackle their lackadaisical attitude towards software and stability of late... and rediscover their own design principles.

     

    I agree with your points, but I don't agree with your first point and your summary.

     

    My TL;DR:  Phones work because they are part of a synergistic system.

    SmartPhones work  because they are part of a synergistic ecosystem.  Once you get the 'phone part' working, it's all about the integrated experience.  Support, HW capabilities, HW/SW integration, InterSW integration, and cohesive UI, and most importantly, the the physical UX.

     

    Strange as it is, most people buy 'experience' (look at beer, car, airlines, diamond, watch, cologne).  Phones are no different.

    Apple gets this.  Few tech companies do.

     

    === cut here =====

     

    With Apple there is one primary provider of experience... Apple.

    with all other phones, there are 2 if not 3 players in providing the primary services:  The carrier (e.g. SW updates), Google, and the phone manufacturer.  This is worse than the WinTel environment.

     

    Samsung grew up in the spec wars of technology.  More Pixels, blacker blacks, faster nets, louder louds, 1.25JigaWatts

    As is everyone else in the Android camp.  If you buy into Android, you as a device maker are saying, 'the experience doesn't matter'

    And if that is the case, then the design doesn't matter.   Specs do.  And when specs converge/blur, then the number one spec, cost, is the differentiator.

  • Reply 134 of 222
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 321member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post



    Ultimately, Samsung is quickly discovering that they had very little brand loyalty from consumers. They're not Apple.



    Most Android buyers just take whatever the salesman is pushing that day. Android fanatics haven't liked Samsung for years, the current hip brands are Motorola, LG, and Sony (who does make some amazingly good phones, especially the Z3 Compact).



    The loyalty is to Android, however, not Samsung.



    Samsung is just a box builder. And box builders are interchangeable.



    I don't know about that...

    While I agree samsung has no loyalty in their customers (not surprising because they aren't admirable, innovative (or dare I say it, cool)) For what you say (samsung's lost sales shifting to other android oem's) to be true the other android brands would have to be getting samsungs losses, and that doesn't seem to be happening.

    What I think is happening is the public is waking up and smelling the coffee. One: the android os is crap on many fronts, it isn't really "open", it isn't very efficient, and has horrible security (the depths of which I think we are only beginning to see). Two: the whole "thriving marketplace" turned out to be bull; there is one android hardware company taking 90% of the spoils (and they make crap hardware!) Lastly (but by no means least) the promised "efficiency" and competition of this "open" marketplace hasn't panned out. Android manufacturers phones cost as much as an iPhone despite being far slower, less secure, shorter runtimes (comparable size and weight) and typically far less well built (which also affects resale, like the PC market that crashed and burned before them android phones value are plummeting after you buy them, (because no one really wants them?) as compared to iPhones which carry sometimes two or three times the value of their competitors in the used marketplace.

  • Reply 135 of 222
    I don't want to see profits declining; I want to see losses increasing. A decline is still a profit. I stopped buying Samsung anything 4 years ago and will never buy anything from a company like Samsung.
  • Reply 136 of 222
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    ny3ranger wrote: »
    I don't want to see profits declining; I want to see losses increasing. A decline is still a profit. I stopped buying Samsung anything 4 years ago and will never buy anything from a company like Samsung.

    I think that would take more than just Apple. It would have to be a two prong attack, with one of the other Android manufacturers making a hit phone in order to turn Samsung's profits into losses.
  • Reply 137 of 222
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cfugle View Post

     

    GE outsources manufacturing to Samsung now. As do 70% of the American appliance sector. Welcome to the rebadged world.


     

    Got a source about GE??  What about the 70% of other vendors??  I have a source and your information is bogus!!

  • Reply 138 of 222
    mj webmj web Posts: 918member
    Pleased as punch to see Samsung stumble and fall, a chintzy knock off artist choking on its substandard parts.
  • Reply 139 of 222
    icoco3 wrote: »
    Got a source about GE??  What about the 70% of other vendors??  I have a source and your information is bogus!!

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/08/news/companies/ge-appliance-sale/
  • Reply 140 of 222
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,362member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

     

    Kind of amusing to see the allegiance switching going on in the FanDroid army. Check out c|net for example. How quickly they went from “Samsung Rules!” to “Samsung Sucks!” as they search for the next iPhone killer. That’s a problem Apple doesn’t have. The FanDroid army will jump from one OEM to another based on the perception of the OEM’s ability to destroy Apple. It’s hilarious to watch. They make their buying decisions based on their hatred of Apple, not the quality of the platform they choose.


     

    Precisely. And THIS is where the "love" for Samsung has stemmed, at least from online communities and nerds- their hatred of Apple, and jumping on whatever OEM has shown the most success against them. 

     

    Samsung's problem now, is that their entire stregy was creating short term whiz-bang- they've never had any long term vision, nor the patience of skill to executive it. Meanwhile, Apple has been making plenty of long term moves in the last few years, that did not bear fruit instantly (much to the chagrin of ADHD forum dwellers) but have no converged in a perfect storm which is very difficult to compete against. Killer specs, killer hardware, an option of screen sizes, Touch ID, Apple Pay, an insanely healthy ecosystem, high integration with OSX platform and the upcoming Apple Watch- All which increase desirability and strengthen the halo effect, and all which are impossible to compete with, if you're an OEM without full control of your platform. Now, with iOS8, through extensions they've taken away any reason that 99% of people would choose Android for the "freedom", and with larger screen sizes, 99% of the reason people might choose a phone from Samsung.

     

    There's nothing in Samsung's DNA that shows it has what it takes to recover from this. It will only get worse as the media piles on, and decides it's bored of Samsung. They literally have nothing to fight back with. They have no valuable, exclusive technologies, software, services, hardware (unless you count touchwiz, which most see as a liability). Oh, and no brand loyalty. Noone I know that has a Samsung phone particularly cares about the company or its products. It's just the shiny thing the carrier pushed on them, they saw in ads, or they liked screen size. And I will have zero pity, as Samsung has been digging this grave for a while, and is one of the most corrupt, tactless, and classless companies I've ever had the displeasure of witnessing. I hope some other OEMs can take this opportunity to excel. I have no problem with HTC, Sony, LG, etc and I wish them success in this space. 

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