I sure hope it wont be that bad at first. I hope they have apple pay a lot better organize and dial pretty good so it can start out as smooth as possible. I have a few friends who are just waiting for apple pay to go wrong to rub it in my face so ill have my fingers cross. Please Steve Jobs help!
There shouldn't be any issues with ?Pay as each individual component is mature from TouchID biometric security to authorize payment using the Device Account Number and transaction-specific dynamic security code stored in the Secure Element and NXP Semiconductor's NFC 65V10 and AMS AS3923 boosted NFC Tag Front End to Verifone's MX915 terminals.
I was in Peru on vacation and we stopped into a tiny store in the mountains for some drinks. He didn't have enough change to break a bill so he asked if we had AMEX.
I've never had any issues with AMEX in L. America. The problem is in Europe and Asia (as also noted by Dick above).
I have consistently found it to be an issue (and I am not saying that you do not, but I travel quite widely).
Add: Incidentally, the only time I've had a fraudulent charge on my card was with AMEX. The card was declined while I was checking into a hotel in Paris. (Fortunately, I had other cards). When I got to the room, signed on to the internet. and checked my email, there was a fraud alert from AMEX. I called them, and they said that there was a charge made in London (a place I had not visited for months). It was finally traced to a leak from the Duty Free shop in Boston's Logan airport!
I have consistently found it to be an issue (and I am not saying that you do not, but I travel quite widely).
I travel first class and the hotels and restaurants that I choose always accept AMEX. I have noticed that our clients in Asia and Europe also carry AMEX. Clearly I would not travel with only one card so not a problem.
I don't see (yet) how I can leave behind my: (i) driver's license; (ii) the ID for my place of work, which I need to open doors, pay for lunch, etc., (iii) my ATM card (since I always like to keep some cash in my pocket, esp. when I travel); (iv) my health insurance card (which is used less often, but I prefer to have it in my wallet); (v) pictures my kids (I know that the iPhone has 30,000, but I still like the touch/feel of an actual picture).
Where/how would I carry them?
I could get a wallet case for the iPhone, but they're all quite ugly and chunky (and, perhaps I am being silly, but I always wonder how the magnetic stripes interact with all of the phone's electronics...).
I honestly don't understand your question. You'd carry them in your wallet. It sounds like and and [@]ibeam[/@] have this notion that if ?Pay can't replace everything in your wallet then it shouldn't be used for anything in your wallet. This is no different than carrying cash -AND- carrying debit/credit cards, which most do today without saying "what's the point of a card if I am still carrying cash with me?"
Personally, it'll be nice to only carry my iPhone with me more often for short, local trips. I'll probably stop carrying all but one CC and my debit card with me.
I wish you'd focus on the larger point instead on nitpicking over guesstimates. That point again, in case you missed it, was: by the time of ApplePay intro (which is the next week or two), Apple may not have a sufficiently large user base with the 6/6+ for every retailer to justify making the hardware investment. The fact that ApplePay is currently US-only makes this even more salient.
1) I'm usually posting on the go so I usually don't have the luxury, time, or desire to go back through multiple comments to find some deeper point. This means I oft respond to posts as they are stated.
2) I'm still not getting what a week or two has to do with anything. This is going to take awhile, but from what I can tell it looks like Apple will have more NFC-capable devices on the market in the US than all other vendors combined by the end of the year. Combine that with the multinationals and banks behind it along with major companies that already support NFC and I see no reason to say that ?Pay is off to a better start before it's even launched than any other service or product in Apple's history.
3) Give it 3 years.
One year.
The secret sauce is the market strategy (and convenience and privacy and security). The timing is essential to the release of ?Pay.
I honestly don't understand your question. You'd carry them in your wallet. It sounds like and and @ibeam have this notion that if ?Pay can't replace everything in your wallet then it shouldn't be used for anything in your wallet.
For me it is just routine. When I walk out the door in the morning, half asleep, I touch my front pocket, iPhone, check, then my back pocket, wallet check, then my other pocket, keys, check. Then off I go. I don't want to say to myself, what cards do I need for today's activities and then take those cards only. I want to be prepared for anything that comes up. I'm already carrying a briefcase, taking a couple cards out of my wallet is not going to lighten my load.
The secret sauce is the market strategy (and convenience and privacy and security). The timing is essential to the release of ?Pay.
1) When ?Pay was announced I saw it as a success immediately. It mirrors what I've been saying about mobile payments for years on this site so I'm not exactly impartial to have my wishes come to fruition. And less than week before launch I still see it as a success because of the foundation Apple has built that answers all my concerns.
2) I was going to say 1 year but then I considered the iPhone and iPad after one year. Surely Albert successful and most on this site knew that but the "critical mass window" still wasn't obvious to the average person. I'd say that about 3 years is when the technology implementation becomes so pervasive that we'll see people talking about it as they've always known about it.
The point of my post is I'm not going to leave my wallet at home. ....
Dry cleaner's claim check? .......etc
I don't see (yet) how I can leave behind my: (i) driver's license; (ii) the ID for my place of work, which I need to open doors, pay for lunch, etc., (iii) my ATM card (since I always like to keep some cash in my pocket, esp. when I travel); (iv) my health insurance card (which is used less often, but I prefer to have it in my wallet); (v) pictures my kids (I know that the iPhone has 30,000, but I still like the touch/feel of an actual picture).
Where/how would I carry them?
I could get a wallet case for the iPhone, but they're all quite ugly and chunky (and, perhaps I am being silly, but I always wonder how the magnetic stripes interact with all of the phone's electronics...).
I honestly don't understand your question. You'd carry them in your wallet. It sounds like and and @ibeam have this notion that if ?Pay can't replace everything in your wallet then it shouldn't be used for anything in your wallet.
I don't know about ibeam, but it's certainly not my notion. I am simply saying that ApplePay will not replace the need for a wallet (unless, of course, you're willing to use a wallet case for the iPhone).
I suppose we're in agreement again. You responses to ibeam were quite confusing. They seemed to indicate to me that you were asking why anyone would need a wallet for anything, since belt clips, velcro solutions, stuff taped to vests, etc could be the solution to those things that ApplePay does not deal with.
I travel first class and the hotels and restaurants that I choose always accept AMEX. I have noticed that our clients in Asia and Europe also carry AMEX. Clearly I would not travel with only one card so not a problem.
Large hotels and airlines never have an issue with AMEX. Many boutique hotels in Europe, for example, will simply not accept AMEX.
I suppose you must spend a lot of time in airports and hotel rooms when in Europe and Asia, and not shop or eat outside much outside of those venues.
I only use sleeve cases, since I like the touch and feel of the device when I use it. Also, It's so beautiful, that I like to see it the way it designed to be seen! (Not at all plugging these guys at all, even though I've been using their cases for a while, but this is the closest to a possible solution that I've seen: http://www.senacases.com/product/burnished-magia-wallet-iphone-6/).
I suppose you must spend a lot of time in airports and hotel rooms when in Europe and Asia, and not shop or eat outside much outside of those venues.
I'm am on a tight schedule and always entertained by the clients for luncheons, dinners and drinks. So I rarely ever have to pay for meals except breakfast at the hotel. They wouldn't let me pay even if I offered to.
The secret sauce is the market strategy (and convenience and privacy and security). The timing is essential to the release of ?Pay.
I agree with SolipsismX on this. It'll be a least 3yr-5yrs before this as mainstream as you're making it. The mentality shift for the majority of consumers with how/what/when they pay is hard to break when they have a set way of managing their money.
For me it is just routine. When I walk out the door in the morning, half asleep, I touch my front pocket, iPhone, check, then my back pocket, wallet check, then my other pocket, keys, check. Then off I go. I don't want to say to myself, what cards do I need for today's activities and then take those cards only. I want to be prepared for anything that comes up. I'm already carrying a briefcase, taking a couple cards out of my wallet is not going to lighten my load.
This is just one example, which to me makes logical sense, of what I just said about the mentality of the way consumers spend.
I'm on the other side of the fence. As I do my best to do everything from whatever phone I'm using that day to help me manage my daily life routine.
1) I'm usually posting on the go so I usually don't have the luxury, time, or desire to go back through multiple comments to find some deeper point. This means I oft respond to posts as they are stated.
2) I'm still not getting what a week or two has to do with anything. This is going to take awhile, but from what I can tell it looks like Apple will have more NFC-capable devices on the market in the US than all other vendors combined by the end of the year. Combine that with the multinationals and banks behind it along with major companies that already support NFC and I see no reason to say that ?Pay is off to a better start before it's even launched than any other service or product in Apple's history.
3) Give it 3 years.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]<span style="line-height:1.4em;">2) The same reason that I am not getting what a week or two has to do with retailers not signing up.</span>
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]3) Then we've been in agreement right from the outset.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]1) That's clearly your issue, not the original poster's.[/SIZE]
Here's the thing!
Some big retailers have already signed up!
Some big banks have already signed up!
Apple customers have money to spend!
November 28th is the start of Black Friday Maddness -- the biggest shopping period in the US!
By Black Friday, the iPhone 6 will have been on sale in the US for 11 weeks!
I suspect that between 20-30 Million (2+ million per week) US customers will have access to ?Pay through iPhone 6 by Black Friday.
For a given retailer to get on board, within a week or two -- is insignificant. But I think that the success/failure (I assume overall success) usage of ?Pay will be widely reported -- and every bank, merchant, cc provider, [affluent] buyer will be paying attention.
I expect that ?Pay will hit the ground running and never look back ... leaving the laggards the choice: Jump on the wagon or get left in the dust!
Then, If the iPhone 6 can Hand Off ?Pay exchanges with a Safari/Yosemite browser -- many and large online purchases could be done securely while shopping at home.
Here are, yet, some other possibilities:
Apple announced that any iTunes credit cards (800 Million, at last count) registered with iTunes can be automatically registered for ?Pay.
What does that mean exactly???
Does it mean that anything I buy through the iTunes Store, App Store, Apple Online Store -- can now be bought through iTunes/?Pay.?
What if Apple allows purchase of iTunes Gift Cards from the iTunes Store/App Store (in addition to the current ability to purchase them from the Apple Online Store).?
What are the possibilities of expanding iTunes to be a quasi-merchant * for ?Pay?
* A merchant with an iTunes account who uses iTunes/?Pay to accept from charges from their customers.
What if the new iPads (or AppleTV) have NFC and an App to accept ?Pay transactions ... Anyone could begin accepting ?Pay transactions with an outlay of less than $500 ... $250? This includes Mon'N'Pop stores, Flea Market stalls, Garage Sales, Carnivals, Food trucks ...
I was in Peru on vacation and we stopped into a tiny store in the mountains for some drinks. He didn't have enough change to break a bill so he asked if we had AMEX.
I've never had any issues with AMEX in L. America. The problem is in Europe and Asia (as also noted by Dick above).
I was in Lima for 2 weeks on business (teaching a class for IBM). I stayed at the Crillon (then a top hotel) -- they did not take AMEX ...
There've been a few changes of government in Peru since then -- so it could have changed
In 1977 I spent a couple of weeks in Paris, then Sindelfingen -- with a weekend outside of Geneva ...
AMEX acceptance was really hit or miss -- Not accepted at where I stayed: L'Auberge; or where I played: The Casino de Divonnes les Bains.
1) When ?Pay was announced I saw it as a success immediately. It mirrors what I've been saying about mobile payments for years on this site so I'm not exactly impartial to have my wishes come to fruition. And less than week before launch I still see it as a success because of the foundation Apple has built that answers all my concerns.
2) I was going to say 1 year but then I considered the iPhone and iPad after one year. Surely Albert successful and most on this site knew that but the "critical mass window" still wasn't obvious to the average person. I'd say that about 3 years is when the technology implementation becomes so pervasive that we'll see people talking about it as they've always known about it.
Yes, I recall that you were always a proponent of NFC while I and others stated that they may use Bluetooth. I retracted that statement prior to the release of iOS 8 because I could see the reasoning behind adoption of NFC (critical mass device deployment, EMV, merchant liability and PCIDSS) although I knew Apple wouldn't use the same implementation as others.
I continue to believe ?Pay will be pervasive and ubiquitous within one year based on Apple's cachet, critical mass and mass media coverage of recent large credit card database exploits as well as partnerships announced.
Comments
The only trouble is, acceptance of AMEX in Europe and Asia can be hit-or-miss.
I have never found that to be an issue.
There shouldn't be any issues with ?Pay as each individual component is mature from TouchID biometric security to authorize payment using the Device Account Number and transaction-specific dynamic security code stored in the Secure Element and NXP Semiconductor's NFC 65V10 and AMS AS3923 boosted NFC Tag Front End to Verifone's MX915 terminals.
I was in Peru on vacation and we stopped into a tiny store in the mountains for some drinks. He didn't have enough change to break a bill so he asked if we had AMEX.
I've never had any issues with AMEX in L. America. The problem is in Europe and Asia (as also noted by Dick above).
I have never found that to be an issue.
I have consistently found it to be an issue (and I am not saying that you do not, but I travel quite widely).
Add: Incidentally, the only time I've had a fraudulent charge on my card was with AMEX. The card was declined while I was checking into a hotel in Paris. (Fortunately, I had other cards). When I got to the room, signed on to the internet. and checked my email, there was a fraud alert from AMEX. I called them, and they said that there was a charge made in London (a place I had not visited for months). It was finally traced to a leak from the Duty Free shop in Boston's Logan airport!
I have consistently found it to be an issue (and I am not saying that you do not, but I travel quite widely).
I travel first class and the hotels and restaurants that I choose always accept AMEX. I have noticed that our clients in Asia and Europe also carry AMEX. Clearly I would not travel with only one card so not a problem.
I honestly don't understand your question. You'd carry them in your wallet. It sounds like and and [@]ibeam[/@] have this notion that if ?Pay can't replace everything in your wallet then it shouldn't be used for anything in your wallet. This is no different than carrying cash -AND- carrying debit/credit cards, which most do today without saying "what's the point of a card if I am still carrying cash with me?"
Personally, it'll be nice to only carry my iPhone with me more often for short, local trips. I'll probably stop carrying all but one CC and my debit card with me.
One year.
The secret sauce is the market strategy (and convenience and privacy and security). The timing is essential to the release of ?Pay.
I honestly don't understand your question. You'd carry them in your wallet. It sounds like and and @ibeam have this notion that if ?Pay can't replace everything in your wallet then it shouldn't be used for anything in your wallet.
For me it is just routine. When I walk out the door in the morning, half asleep, I touch my front pocket, iPhone, check, then my back pocket, wallet check, then my other pocket, keys, check. Then off I go. I don't want to say to myself, what cards do I need for today's activities and then take those cards only. I want to be prepared for anything that comes up. I'm already carrying a briefcase, taking a couple cards out of my wallet is not going to lighten my load.
1) When ?Pay was announced I saw it as a success immediately. It mirrors what I've been saying about mobile payments for years on this site so I'm not exactly impartial to have my wishes come to fruition. And less than week before launch I still see it as a success because of the foundation Apple has built that answers all my concerns.
2) I was going to say 1 year but then I considered the iPhone and iPad after one year. Surely Albert successful and most on this site knew that but the "critical mass window" still wasn't obvious to the average person. I'd say that about 3 years is when the
technologyimplementation becomes so pervasive that we'll see people talking about it as they've always known about it.The point of my post is I'm not going to leave my wallet at home. ....
Dry cleaner's claim check? .......etc
I don't see (yet) how I can leave behind my: (i) driver's license; (ii) the ID for my place of work, which I need to open doors, pay for lunch, etc., (iii) my ATM card (since I always like to keep some cash in my pocket, esp. when I travel); (iv) my health insurance card (which is used less often, but I prefer to have it in my wallet); (v) pictures my kids (I know that the iPhone has 30,000, but I still like the touch/feel of an actual picture).
Where/how would I carry them?
I could get a wallet case for the iPhone, but they're all quite ugly and chunky (and, perhaps I am being silly, but I always wonder how the magnetic stripes interact with all of the phone's electronics...).
I use a BookBook for my 5; you might like that.
I honestly don't understand your question. You'd carry them in your wallet. It sounds like and and @ibeam have this notion that if ?Pay can't replace everything in your wallet then it shouldn't be used for anything in your wallet.
I don't know about ibeam, but it's certainly not my notion. I am simply saying that ApplePay will not replace the need for a wallet (unless, of course, you're willing to use a wallet case for the iPhone).
I suppose we're in agreement again. You responses to ibeam were quite confusing. They seemed to indicate to me that you were asking why anyone would need a wallet for anything, since belt clips, velcro solutions, stuff taped to vests, etc could be the solution to those things that ApplePay does not deal with.
I travel first class and the hotels and restaurants that I choose always accept AMEX. I have noticed that our clients in Asia and Europe also carry AMEX. Clearly I would not travel with only one card so not a problem.
Large hotels and airlines never have an issue with AMEX. Many boutique hotels in Europe, for example, will simply not accept AMEX.
I suppose you must spend a lot of time in airports and hotel rooms when in Europe and Asia, and not shop or eat outside much outside of those venues.
I use a BookBook for my 5; you might like that.
I've seen those -- they're quite nice.
I only use sleeve cases, since I like the touch and feel of the device when I use it. Also, It's so beautiful, that I like to see it the way it designed to be seen! (Not at all plugging these guys at all, even though I've been using their cases for a while, but this is the closest to a possible solution that I've seen: http://www.senacases.com/product/burnished-magia-wallet-iphone-6/).
I suppose you must spend a lot of time in airports and hotel rooms when in Europe and Asia, and not shop or eat outside much outside of those venues.
I'm am on a tight schedule and always entertained by the clients for luncheons, dinners and drinks. So I rarely ever have to pay for meals except breakfast at the hotel. They wouldn't let me pay even if I offered to.
I agree with SolipsismX on this. It'll be a least 3yr-5yrs before this as mainstream as you're making it. The mentality shift for the majority of consumers with how/what/when they pay is hard to break when they have a set way of managing their money.
This is just one example, which to me makes logical sense, of what I just said about the mentality of the way consumers spend.
I'm on the other side of the fence. As I do my best to do everything from whatever phone I'm using that day to help me manage my daily life routine.
Here's the thing!
Some big retailers have already signed up!
Some big banks have already signed up!
Apple customers have money to spend!
November 28th is the start of Black Friday Maddness -- the biggest shopping period in the US!
By Black Friday, the iPhone 6 will have been on sale in the US for 11 weeks!
I suspect that between 20-30 Million (2+ million per week) US customers will have access to ?Pay through iPhone 6 by Black Friday.
For a given retailer to get on board, within a week or two -- is insignificant. But I think that the success/failure (I assume overall success) usage of ?Pay will be widely reported -- and every bank, merchant, cc provider, [affluent] buyer will be paying attention.
I expect that ?Pay will hit the ground running and never look back ... leaving the laggards the choice: Jump on the wagon or get left in the dust!
Then, If the iPhone 6 can Hand Off ?Pay exchanges with a Safari/Yosemite browser -- many and large online purchases could be done securely while shopping at home.
Here are, yet, some other possibilities:
Apple announced that any iTunes credit cards (800 Million, at last count) registered with iTunes can be automatically registered for ?Pay.
What does that mean exactly???
Does it mean that anything I buy through the iTunes Store, App Store, Apple Online Store -- can now be bought through iTunes/?Pay.?
What if Apple allows purchase of iTunes Gift Cards from the iTunes Store/App Store (in addition to the current ability to purchase them from the Apple Online Store).?
What are the possibilities of expanding iTunes to be a quasi-merchant * for ?Pay?
* A merchant with an iTunes account who uses iTunes/?Pay to accept from charges from their customers.
What if the new iPads (or AppleTV) have NFC and an App to accept ?Pay transactions ... Anyone could begin accepting ?Pay transactions with an outlay of less than $500 ... $250? This includes Mon'N'Pop stores, Flea Market stalls, Garage Sales, Carnivals, Food trucks ...
* A merchant with an iTunes account who uses iTunes/?Pay to accept from charges from their customers.
I remember people suggesting Apple could become a bank. I don't think they want to be a bank so I don't see that as a likely scenario.
I was in Lima for 2 weeks on business (teaching a class for IBM). I stayed at the Crillon (then a top hotel) -- they did not take AMEX ...
There've been a few changes of government in Peru since then -- so it could have changed
In 1977 I spent a couple of weeks in Paris, then Sindelfingen -- with a weekend outside of Geneva ...
AMEX acceptance was really hit or miss -- Not accepted at where I stayed: L'Auberge; or where I played: The Casino de Divonnes les Bains.
Yes, I recall that you were always a proponent of NFC while I and others stated that they may use Bluetooth. I retracted that statement prior to the release of iOS 8 because I could see the reasoning behind adoption of NFC (critical mass device deployment, EMV, merchant liability and PCIDSS) although I knew Apple wouldn't use the same implementation as others.
I continue to believe ?Pay will be pervasive and ubiquitous within one year based on Apple's cachet, critical mass and mass media coverage of recent large credit card database exploits as well as partnerships announced.