Just as Inconvnient as above, and works just as well (and the merchant doesn't get access to any personal data).
Honestly I don't mind the retailers having my purchasing history as I am even signed up for mailing lists and I always get coupons for stuff I actually want to buy. I am not so keen on them storing my CC number though. They really don't need that to tailor their marketing to me. The last four digits should suffice.
I agree with that, too ...
As long as I can opt in ...
With today's systems you have no choice ... And most anyone who has your data -- sells your data to all comers ... This includes State Governments .. Driving records, voting records, tax records ...
I think that Apple Pay has the potential of offering merchants offering consumers loyalty rewards, etc. -- while you retain your anonymity and privacy ... And that can't be sold to anyone ...
I recently did n Amazon search for a standup desk ... Now every fucking web site I visit (including AI) has an ad for a standup desk ... Really pissed about that!
I know that is one of the differences. That was not my point. My point was that using tokens (whether via ApplePay or Wallet) is the better alternative as you are not spreading around credit card information to all kind of merchants who all keep it in their own databases that potentially could be breached. As a side note: When using Wallet you of course can always delete your purchasing history.
If you can't delete it from Google's servers, then you are not deleting it. This is the same problem you have using GMail, and messaging. You can delete the mail and messages from your machines, but Google keeps them for their own use.
Sorry, but I don't want that. It's one thing when a store keeps a record of my purchases, but I don't want an entity like Google to keep them.
Logic tells me that you are correct that the cards will be with us for a while ...
But, experience and knowledge of human self-interest tells me otherwise. If it is to the advantage of the consumer, the merchant and the bank -- they'll find a way to make it happen (eliminate the card),
I'm not talking convenience, security or privacy, here, I'm tanking $.
If all of the above can make/save $ -- then it will happen! ASAP!
It's easy to argue that the merchants won't upgrade to expensive NFC terminals ... Nor, should they!
Apple could easily offer a $200 iPad (or $75 AppleTV) with NFC ... Not only that, they could incentivize small (or large) merchants by offering them a Pay as you ApplePay plan -- there is no charge up front, and Apple takes a .01 cut of each ApplePay transaction until the terminal is paid for. Likely, the bank would charge the merchant less for the ApplePay transactions ... So there would be little or no downside.
Then, there's parking meters and vending machines ...
I don't think Apple will do that, but who knows? I do expect merchants to begin their terminal upgrades this year. After all, now that the rules have changed, and the merchants will become responsible for fraud costs, rather than the banks and card companies, if they don't upgrade, we will begin to finally see wider spread adoption. It's the more out of the way locations, and small shops that will put this off, or won't bother at all, and will only accept cash. And if you travel abroad, well, you just can't take the chance.
If you can't delete it from Google's servers, then you are not deleting it. This is the same problem you have using GMail, and messaging. You can delete the mail and messages from your machines, but Google keeps them for their own use.
Sorry, but I dk t want that. It's one thing when a store keeps a record of my lurches, but I do t want an entity like Google to keep them.
How long do most companies keep data after you've deleted it? Is it ever really deleted from any company servers? Honest question for you Mel, but my personal answer would be no whether it's Google, Microsoft, Apple, or Facebook. I suspect there's always backups. In addition some of those companies I mentioned offer no indication of "what they know" or a method of correcting or deleting it AFAIK. Google at least makes an attempt at transparency which you should be willing to give them credit for.
How long do most companies keep data after you've deleted it? Is it ever really deleted from any company servers? Honest question for you Mel, but my personal answer would be no whether it's Google, Microsoft, Apple, or Facebook. I suspect there's always backups. In addition some of those companies I mentioned offer no indication of "what they know" or a method of correcting or deleting it AFAIK. Google at least makes an attempt at transparency which you should be willing to give them credit for.
You must have seen, in your browser prefs, the option of how long to keep your mails on the server. You have a choice there. Companies that handle email don't want your mails clogging up their servers, and even have mailboxes that fill up. I'm sure you've had that happen to you once or twice.
But if you're using Bing, or GMail, or Yahoo, or any companies services that are free, and where they don't have another business that this is a part of, they will keep your info for their own use. I guess I'll have to repeat it for the thousandth time, but Google is an advertising company. That's all they are. And like advertising companies they have services that you use to give them your info.
Every service Google provides is there for one purpose, and that is to gather your information so that they can, in one form or another, sell it. Even Street View was shown to be doing that, and don't believe for one moment that it was one rogue guy who was responsible. My bet is that the entire purpose of Street View was to collect that data. Of course, you'll say I'm paranoid, but it's funny that when the German government told them to disgorge that data, they refused.
They are just not trustworthy, no matter how much you love them.
Apple states quite clearly that they don't collect most of that data. That's pretty transparent. And the small bit that they do, they easily allow you to opt out of. Try to opt out of most of that with Google, and then tell me how transparent they are.
And companies who don't use this data, delete it when they say they do, it's usually an automatic process, after a day, a week, or a month, delending on your settings. Backups? Only until it's told to be deleted by you.
You must have seen, in your browser prefs, the option of how long to keep your mails on the server. You have a choice there. Companies that handle email don't want your mails clogging up their servers, and even have mailboxes that fill up. I'm sure you've had that happen to you once or twice.
Example. Here is the pertinent data retention disclosure for the only company you imply doesn't store old customer communications and data:
"Integrity and Retention of Personal Information
Apple makes it easy for you to keep your personal information accurate, complete, and up to date. We will retain your personal information for the period necessary to fulfill the purposes outlined in this Privacy Policy unless a longer retention period is required or permitted by law." So if you ask Apple to delete all your information how long do they say it will take?
Doesn't sound as tho they commit to delete user data until/unless they see fit to do so, not unlike Google's Privacy Policy states.
The old "Apple doesn't care about collecting user data" is becoming less true with each iOS update. Just following today's articles here at AI shows Apple sliding down the same hill that other ad-supported services ski on. Why do you think that iAd, iBeacons and Apple Pay are all being rolled together into an Apple developed and promoted service? Purely to benefit iDevice owners? Hardly.
Apple states quite clearly that they don't collect most of that data. That's pretty transparent. And the small bit that they do, they easily allow you to opt out of. Try to opt out of most of that with Google, and then tell me how transparent they are.
And companies who don't use this data, delete it when they say they do, it's usually an automatic process, after a day, a week, or a month, delending on your settings. Backups? Only until it's told to be deleted by you.
Is Google collection on a greater scale? Little doubt in my mind that they are. Afterall they're a search company first and foremost and offering the most pertinent results is pretty useful for the searcher. Understanding what it is that you are probably searching for requires some understanding of at least an anonymised "you". As Google started out a search provider they obviously need to have a source of funding. Therefore ads as there's no evidence folks are willing to pay for a search engine. With Google being the largest, most fully featured and (disputably perhaps) the best of all the search engines they need a whole lotta revenue to continue with it.
Apple sells hardware and a lot of it. Why do they need to offer targeted advertising services in the first place, knowing full well that monetizing their customers, making them the product, is going to require some sharing of "who they are" with the advertisers and retailers who are their customers in this case. Do they not make enough profit from hardware to stay above the same data collection and user tracking other companies rely on for funding?
I have zero issue with ads, nor with companies that make money delivering them to you and me. Heck I buy a Sunday paper just to see'em. As long as Google or Apple or Microsoft aggressively protects any information about the real me, not selling it to outside parties for perhaps nefarious uses it's OK with me. There's no evidence it ever leaves their control is there? But don't pretend that that any of them don't monetize the anonymous you is some way. They do. IMHO Tim Cook had a well-timed reason to highlight privacy as a prime goal for Apple. Look at the advertising related features AI has mentioned today, some of which will require sharing of user information to be effective.
This is probably a really stupid question so please forgive me. If a store accepts wireless payments but isn't on the list of supported stores BUT you have your credit card in Apple Pay, can you use it there?
No, you can't, unless it's supported, in which case, you can.
Because it's current, secure, and effective, just like Apple Pay.
LOL. Not. ApplePay doesn't relay my purchase information to Apple or Google, it uses tokenization, and it actually works. Google's implementation is just another one of their multitude of failures.
Indeed.
Google Glass is the perfect manifestation of the short-sightedness of Google.
I had this card, and I loved it. It did only have a £15 cap on a contact less payment though. Anything more and a pin was needed. Properly can't wait for ApplePay to hit the UK.
Judging by the non-existence of iTunes Radio, it'll be 2016 or later.
Example. Here is the pertinent data retention disclosure for the only company you imply doesn't store old customer communications and data:
"Integrity and Retention of Personal Information
Apple makes it easy for you to keep your personal information accurate, complete, and up to date. We will retain your personal information for the period necessary to fulfill the purposes outlined in this Privacy Policy unless a longer retention period is required or permitted by law." So if you ask Apple to delete all your information how long do they say it will take?
Doesn't sound as tho they commit to delete user data until/unless they see fit to do so, not unlike Google's Privacy Policy states.
The old "Apple doesn't care about collecting user data" is becoming less true with each iOS update. Just following today's articles here at AI shows Apple sliding down the same hill that other ad-supported services ski on. Why do you think that iAd, iBeacons and Apple Pay are all being rolled together into an Apple developed and promoted service? Purely to benefit iDevice owners? Hardly.
Is Google collection on a greater scale? Little doubt in my mind that they are. Afterall they're a search company first and foremost and offering the most pertinent results is pretty useful for the searcher. Understanding what it is that you are probably searching for requires some understanding of at least an anonymised "you". As Google started out a search provider they obviously need to have a source of funding. Therefore ads as there's no evidence folks are willing to pay for a search engine. With Google being the largest, most fully featured and (disputably perhaps) the best of all the search engines they need a whole lotta revenue to continue with it.
Apple sells hardware and a lot of it. Why do they need to offer targeted advertising services in the first place, knowing full well that monetizing their customers, making them the product, is going to require some sharing of "who they are" with the advertisers and retailers who are their customers in this case. Do they not make enough profit from hardware to stay above the same data collection and user tracking other companies rely on for funding?
I have zero issue with ads, nor with companies that make money delivering them to you and me. Heck I buy a Sunday paper just to see'em. As long as Google or Apple or Microsoft aggressively protects any information about the real me, not selling it to outside parties for perhaps nefarious uses it's OK with me. There's no evidence it ever leaves their control is there? But don't pretend that that any of them don't monetize the anonymous you is some way. They do. IMHO Tim Cook had a well-timed reason to highlight privacy as a prime goal for Apple. Look at the advertising related features AI has mentioned today, some of which will require sharing of user information to be effective.
I read those, and they aren't even close to being the same thing. I can only assume you're cherry picking out what you want, because it's obvious that Google is requiring that you give them far more information than Apple is. And by the way, most of what Apple asks for is opt in. Most of what Google "asks" for is required.
Apple does not target Ads the way Goog,e does, and you can opt out of all of it. You can't opt out of that with Google. Please stop thinking I'm naive about this. Google is over $50 billion a year, and it's almost all from Ads. That's not true for Apple. In fact, I'm sure that you read earlier this year that the reason Apple,s iAds wasn't doing that well is because Adveetisers were complaining that Apple didn't share much information with them.cso just stop bothering about this because you can't win here.
I read those, and they aren't even close to being the same thing. I can only assume you're cherry picking out what you want, because it's obvious that Google is requiring that you give them far more information than Apple is. And by the way, most of what Apple asks for is opt in. Most of what Google "asks" for is required.[
Apple does not target Ads the way Google does, and you can opt out of all of it. You can't opt out of that with Google
Mel I'd swear if I didn't know better you make some of it up as you go. I haven't seen a targeted Google ad in a long time. Why? I opted out just as you can and it's easy as can be. If you don't know where to look open your favorite browser and type in opt out of Google ads
FWIW too Apple's ad settings are not opt-in but rather opt-out for those that know to look for it. I'm not quibbling with that either as they have business reasons to do so but it's silly for you to make believe differently. There's no entirely clean hands which is becoming ever more plain.
Ask yourself why big retailers were so quick to adopt beacons and now so anxious to advertise ApplePay on behalf of Apple. The combination of the two allows someone like Walgreens to track "you" thru the store, noting where you stop in each aisle to identify interests, target special offers to you and now with Apple Pay determine whether the ad resulted in a purchase.Retailers and advertisers can't get that with Google Wallet, at least not yet. IMHO that's why they're all too happy to spend money and resources to help promote the service. There's gold there.
Pointing out that one company doesn't do it as often or in the exact same way so making it OK is disingenuous at best.. If you're going to vociferously complain about the evils of ads, tracking and customer monetization at least be consistent. Evil or acceptable for one is evil or acceptable for the other.
While I give Wegamns 3 stars for being one of the first majors to accept ApplePay, things are not working as expected if you have a debit card as your default applepay card.
After cashier rang up items and activated terminal, iPhone did immediately prompt for touch-I'd approval. After pressing my thumb on the touch-id and approving, phone immediately displayed "done".
Bad news is that the POS terminal then asked for me to enter the debit cards PIN number. Without this the transaction comes to hault.
Naturally ApplePay is so new that cashier had no idea what was going on.
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Weird that folks not on Sprint and not using Nexus devices still use Google Wallet. :rolleyes:
Completely agree on the marketing comment tho. Google doesn't have the kind of marketing savvy network that Apple does. That's why until they came around similar services from companies like Google and PayPal were not going to see much success.
As suspected Apple Pay is lifting all mobile payment ships. A new report out today credits Apple's new service with a 50% increase in payments and a 100% increase in users of Google Wallet. The retailers just weren't going to put much effort and money into NFC payments until another big player, someone like Apple , was on-board with it. Still no guarantee that either service will be the end-all for mobile payments but the chances are sure a lot better now.
With Google and Apple taking the majority of mobile payments, I think the chances for a 3rd party to make a dent is going to be quite slim.
They wouldn’t have to make a dent to go along with what's in place. I really hope MS gets their act together, so that WinPh can give us consumers a viable 3rd choice. It's always good to have options.
Comments
I agree with that, too ...
As long as I can opt in ...
With today's systems you have no choice ... And most anyone who has your data -- sells your data to all comers ... This includes State Governments .. Driving records, voting records, tax records ...
I think that Apple Pay has the potential of offering merchants offering consumers loyalty rewards, etc. -- while you retain your anonymity and privacy ... And that can't be sold to anyone ...
I recently did n Amazon search for a standup desk ... Now every fucking web site I visit (including AI) has an ad for a standup desk ... Really pissed about that!
If you can't delete it from Google's servers, then you are not deleting it. This is the same problem you have using GMail, and messaging. You can delete the mail and messages from your machines, but Google keeps them for their own use.
Sorry, but I don't want that. It's one thing when a store keeps a record of my purchases, but I don't want an entity like Google to keep them.
I don't think Apple will do that, but who knows? I do expect merchants to begin their terminal upgrades this year. After all, now that the rules have changed, and the merchants will become responsible for fraud costs, rather than the banks and card companies, if they don't upgrade, we will begin to finally see wider spread adoption. It's the more out of the way locations, and small shops that will put this off, or won't bother at all, and will only accept cash. And if you travel abroad, well, you just can't take the chance.
How long do most companies keep data after you've deleted it? Is it ever really deleted from any company servers? Honest question for you Mel, but my personal answer would be no whether it's Google, Microsoft, Apple, or Facebook. I suspect there's always backups. In addition some of those companies I mentioned offer no indication of "what they know" or a method of correcting or deleting it AFAIK. Google at least makes an attempt at transparency which you should be willing to give them credit for.
You must have seen, in your browser prefs, the option of how long to keep your mails on the server. You have a choice there. Companies that handle email don't want your mails clogging up their servers, and even have mailboxes that fill up. I'm sure you've had that happen to you once or twice.
But if you're using Bing, or GMail, or Yahoo, or any companies services that are free, and where they don't have another business that this is a part of, they will keep your info for their own use. I guess I'll have to repeat it for the thousandth time, but Google is an advertising company. That's all they are. And like advertising companies they have services that you use to give them your info.
Every service Google provides is there for one purpose, and that is to gather your information so that they can, in one form or another, sell it. Even Street View was shown to be doing that, and don't believe for one moment that it was one rogue guy who was responsible. My bet is that the entire purpose of Street View was to collect that data. Of course, you'll say I'm paranoid, but it's funny that when the German government told them to disgorge that data, they refused.
They are just not trustworthy, no matter how much you love them.
Apple states quite clearly that they don't collect most of that data. That's pretty transparent. And the small bit that they do, they easily allow you to opt out of. Try to opt out of most of that with Google, and then tell me how transparent they are.
And companies who don't use this data, delete it when they say they do, it's usually an automatic process, after a day, a week, or a month, delending on your settings. Backups? Only until it's told to be deleted by you.
Example. Here is the pertinent data retention disclosure for the only company you imply doesn't store old customer communications and data:
"Integrity and Retention of Personal Information
Apple makes it easy for you to keep your personal information accurate, complete, and up to date. We will retain your personal information for the period necessary to fulfill the purposes outlined in this Privacy Policy unless a longer retention period is required or permitted by law." So if you ask Apple to delete all your information how long do they say it will take?
Doesn't sound as tho they commit to delete user data until/unless they see fit to do so, not unlike Google's Privacy Policy states.
The old "Apple doesn't care about collecting user data" is becoming less true with each iOS update. Just following today's articles here at AI shows Apple sliding down the same hill that other ad-supported services ski on. Why do you think that iAd, iBeacons and Apple Pay are all being rolled together into an Apple developed and promoted service? Purely to benefit iDevice owners? Hardly.
Here's Apple's Privacy Policy and Google's for comparison. Sure looks like they collect the same types of information and have the right to use it in the same manner.
http://www.apple.com/privacy/privacy-policy/
http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/
Is Google collection on a greater scale? Little doubt in my mind that they are. Afterall they're a search company first and foremost and offering the most pertinent results is pretty useful for the searcher. Understanding what it is that you are probably searching for requires some understanding of at least an anonymised "you". As Google started out a search provider they obviously need to have a source of funding. Therefore ads as there's no evidence folks are willing to pay for a search engine. With Google being the largest, most fully featured and (disputably perhaps) the best of all the search engines they need a whole lotta revenue to continue with it.
Apple sells hardware and a lot of it. Why do they need to offer targeted advertising services in the first place, knowing full well that monetizing their customers, making them the product, is going to require some sharing of "who they are" with the advertisers and retailers who are their customers in this case. Do they not make enough profit from hardware to stay above the same data collection and user tracking other companies rely on for funding?
I have zero issue with ads, nor with companies that make money delivering them to you and me. Heck I buy a Sunday paper just to see'em. As long as Google or Apple or Microsoft aggressively protects any information about the real me, not selling it to outside parties for perhaps nefarious uses it's OK with me. There's no evidence it ever leaves their control is there? But don't pretend that that any of them don't monetize the anonymous you is some way. They do. IMHO Tim Cook had a well-timed reason to highlight privacy as a prime goal for Apple. Look at the advertising related features AI has mentioned today, some of which will require sharing of user information to be effective.
Love the jazz in the video!
It's in E flat, a good key.
This is probably a really stupid question so please forgive me. If a store accepts wireless payments but isn't on the list of supported stores BUT you have your credit card in Apple Pay, can you use it there?
No, you can't, unless it's supported, in which case, you can.
Because it's current, secure, and effective, just like Apple Pay.
LOL. Not. ApplePay doesn't relay my purchase information to Apple or Google, it uses tokenization, and it actually works. Google's implementation is just another one of their multitude of failures.
Indeed.
Google Glass is the perfect manifestation of the short-sightedness of Google.
Add to the list "Using giant waterslide".
I had this card, and I loved it. It did only have a £15 cap on a contact less payment though. Anything more and a pin was needed. Properly can't wait for ApplePay to hit the UK.
Judging by the non-existence of iTunes Radio, it'll be 2016 or later.
If it were up to me, I'd be carrying an AK-47 in my backpack, but unfortunately, that's not legal where I live.
What is it with some people and using foreign guns? Good ol' American-made for me.
Guns?
Guns are for sissies. Just carry a Ghurka knife and be done with it.
They delete it when you tell them too.
I read those, and they aren't even close to being the same thing. I can only assume you're cherry picking out what you want, because it's obvious that Google is requiring that you give them far more information than Apple is. And by the way, most of what Apple asks for is opt in. Most of what Google "asks" for is required.
Apple does not target Ads the way Goog,e does, and you can opt out of all of it. You can't opt out of that with Google. Please stop thinking I'm naive about this. Google is over $50 billion a year, and it's almost all from Ads. That's not true for Apple. In fact, I'm sure that you read earlier this year that the reason Apple,s iAds wasn't doing that well is because Adveetisers were complaining that Apple didn't share much information with them.cso just stop bothering about this because you can't win here.
FWIW too Apple's ad settings are not opt-in but rather opt-out for those that know to look for it. I'm not quibbling with that either as they have business reasons to do so but it's silly for you to make believe differently. There's no entirely clean hands which is becoming ever more plain.
Ask yourself why big retailers were so quick to adopt beacons and now so anxious to advertise ApplePay on behalf of Apple. The combination of the two allows someone like Walgreens to track "you" thru the store, noting where you stop in each aisle to identify interests, target special offers to you and now with Apple Pay determine whether the ad resulted in a purchase.Retailers and advertisers can't get that with Google Wallet, at least not yet. IMHO that's why they're all too happy to spend money and resources to help promote the service. There's gold there.
Pointing out that one company doesn't do it as often or in the exact same way so making it OK is disingenuous at best.. If you're going to vociferously complain about the evils of ads, tracking and customer monetization at least be consistent. Evil or acceptable for one is evil or acceptable for the other.
After cashier rang up items and activated terminal, iPhone did immediately prompt for touch-I'd approval. After pressing my thumb on the touch-id and approving, phone immediately displayed "done".
Bad news is that the POS terminal then asked for me to enter the debit cards PIN number. Without this the transaction comes to hault.
Naturally ApplePay is so new that cashier had no idea what was going on.
Apple - Wegamns are you listening?
As suspected Apple Pay is lifting all mobile payment ships. A new report out today credits Apple's new service with a 50% increase in payments and a 100% increase in users of Google Wallet. The retailers just weren't going to put much effort and money into NFC payments until another big player, someone like Apple
With Google and Apple taking the majority of mobile payments, I think the chances for a 3rd party to make a dent is going to be quite slim.
They wouldn’t have to make a dent to go along with what's in place. I really hope MS gets their act together, so that WinPh can give us consumers a viable 3rd choice. It's always good to have options.