Those on screen signatures mean nothing. You could sign ISIS or XXX.com nobody checks that.
I've been to a few places that use the iPad for their checkout station that will hand you the entire iPad to sign your card and it has an excessively large area in which to sign. In those instances I like to draw a picture as my signature. Usually something scenic.
I'm sure Apple was well aware of the risks of jumping into a market segment that is outside of their primary area of domain expertise. No matter how logical or how customer focused Apple's payment system is they are going up against an industry built around incestuous relationships between product manufacturers, distributors, retails, and payment systems. Everyone wants their cut of the take and retailers have long been harvesting data from their customers for resale under the phony premise of "customer loyalty" programs. The retailers, especially in highly saturated markets, know very well that customers aren't any more loyal to them than they are to every one of their competitors and will cherry pick from whomever has the better deal that day or that week. The value to the retailer is in the customer data they collect. On the other hand, the margins for some of these retailers, especially the grocery chains are so astonishingly thin that you can't blame them for trying to take a cut anyplace they possibly can.
In any case, Apple should be pushing harder through the industry standards, consortiums, and federations like the NRF (National Retail Federation) and ARTS (Association for Retail Technology Standards) rather than solely going after individual retailers. Unfortunately, at least in the US, there is not an implicit expectation of privacy in payment chains and the retailers exploit this to the nth degree. Apple would do well to take Apply Pay to Europe where the privacy laws are more stringent and controlled.
I will vote with my (virtual) wallet and take my business to retailers who support Apple Pay, thereby giving me the choice to protect my privacy. I also trust Apple to safeguard my data much more than I trust Wal-Mart or CVS. I know, having "Wal-Mart" and "trust" in the same sentence defies logic and reason.
Will be interesting to watch how these battles play out. This is similar to SoftCard (ISIS) trying to shut down Google wallet, then working with them. I believe SoftCard is also working with Apple so that you'll get both Apple pay and SoftCard on an iPhone. Seems a little moot to me as I think I know which most Apple users will prefer. On the flip side Apple's limitation is that it only works with a subset of consumers, where anyone can use SoftCard or Wallet.
I'm glad the Apple rollout is likely to make all systems more prominent, but I think the real edge Apple has is in the Touch ID.
This is quite similar to the shenanigans the carriers pulled by blocking google wallet in order to push SoftCard. But SoftCard didn't actually go out of their way to work with Google Wallet; Google eventually ran around them by switching to host card emulation and depriving them of their "secure element" excuse. In this case, though, it would be harder for Apple or Google to go, "you know what, we don't actually need your stinkin' NFC!"
I'm not sure why I'm getting so much flack for explaining that I need printed receipts for my CPA to do my taxes. I've been using the same firm for twenty years and they save me thousands every year on deductions because they provide an exhaustive, comprehensive, detailed, account of every possible tax advantage I can legally use and it has never been challenged by the IRS, but he requires hard copy of everything in order to make it official.
And does your accountant drive a horse and buggy to work, hmmm ....? Hard copy isn't required. Whether on paper or digitally, all the IRS requires is that an expense be substantiated by evidence.
Credit card companies have been a huge part of the problem on security issues. They could have just released low price wireless terminals for free to retailers LONG ago but chose not to. They made money off consumers without concern for our safety.
This is asinine. CVS and Rite-Aid can track the transaction with the use of their loyalty card now. They can track congregate data now on credit card transaction and even know what's I'm buying, with what and how I'm buying now. Now, they want to do it with NFC transactions too?
They'll know everything about the Apple Pay transaction if the loyalty card is used. What other data are they trying to retain? I think the PCI Standards Council should look at this very carefully.
I think they're just jealous of Apple coming up with a system that could earn them billions per year. However, I have no desire to use a different system at each merchant.
They are acting foolishly that will hurt them financially in the future as more consumers use NFC (e. g., Apple Pay, Google Wallet). The customer should decide what system to use, not the merchant.
Bullshit. I'm not going to scan my W2, 1099, bank interest, capital gains, property tax bills and a million other expenses. That would take forever because I don't generally receive them in a secure digital format in the first place. I can't believe there are so many inexperienced people posting idiotic advice on tax preparation.
Such rubbish. Half of us are self employed, we know how it works. You provide papers where you have papers, and digital files for the rest.
Jest? Yes and No. The Apple user demographic is catholic to be sure and contains more than a hint of heroic persistency, never_say_die obstinacy and downright militancy - I've been around long enough to witness examples of all three. I would never bet against Apple and forcing users onto a less secure, more convoluted, freedom busting, cynical data mining hack.......is very likely to be picked up and thrown in their face by a fair proportion of that demographic.
No. It's not about religious fanaticism - it's far more guttural and insinctive.
PS. When I read any of the following...(Apple +) cult(ish), religious, fanatic, fanbois, mindless drones etc...any respect I may have had for an argument or point of view, is instantly shredded. Just so you know.
Correct is not faith! Is just that apple makes product thinking of the user first. Apple give usefullness to their product. Thats is the reason i like apple. A 1000 features dont mean anything if you have no use for then. Faithfull no i just support the company that makes what i like so that they can continue making it!
And somebody dared to call me insane for vocally opposing this?
Screw both CVS and Rite-Aid! They deserve to go out of business! I hope that they do and that thousands of jobs are lost!
Who in their right mind wants to use their crappy and not secure payment systems!
I do not trust any crappy retailer! Just look at all of the hack attacks and security breaches that have been happening to various retailers!
I do not want any of these places to have access to any of my info! GTFO!
Apple users who have the choice will simply take their business elsewhere!
Kiss my ass CVS and Rite-Aid!
Boycotting goes both ways, and two can play at that game! We'll see who comes out on top! Hint: It wont be them and their laughable payment system!
Tell them that and not the clerk at the retailer. Ask to speak to the manager, write a snail mail or email letter or post on their social media.
If enough people do it, they'll get the message. They are trying to keep a part of the card transaction fee for themselves, just as Apple is doing with Apple Pay. Let them come out with their system, but don't ban other NFC systems. Let the customer choose.
Dumb. One is not so much more difficult than the other, I see people swiping away at every store without a frown on their face because it is so tedious and tiresome. Get over it! ?Pay is about better security not ease of use.
Ok, now I know you're just another dumb fucking troll getting his rocks off. Anybody not willfully squeezing his eyes shut knows that's not true, that with apple pay its not necessary to even unlock the device let alone futz around with swipes, signatures or keying in PINs - simply place finger over Touch ID, place at the terminal. Vibrates and you're done.
And somebody dared to call me insane for vocally opposing this?
Screw both CVS and Rite-Aid! They deserve to go out of business! I hope that they do and that thousands of jobs are lost!
Who in their right mind wants to use their crappy and not secure payment systems!
I do not trust any crappy retailer! Just look at all of the hack attacks and security breaches that have been happening to various retailers!
I do not want any of these places to have access to any of my info! GTFO!
Apple users who have the choice will simply take their business elsewhere!
Kiss my ass CVS and Rite-Aid!
Boycotting goes both ways, and two can play at that game! We'll see who comes out on top! Hint: It wont be them and their laughable payment system!
The problem is that many medical insurance plans today pre-define who you must use to fulfill prescriptions on the plan. So at least as far as prescriptions are concerned, many people can't switch pharmacies.
If you use any of the affinity/membership programs, where you have to swipe a tag at checkout in order to get points or discounts, they're already tracking everything you purchase, which bugs the hell out of me. I predict that within a few years, someone is going to get denied health insurance because the insurance company has discovered that a diabetic was buying lots of cookies from the grocery store. I do use one of those tags, but I gave them a phony name and address. At other retailers, I just don't bother and if they won't swipe a store tag at the register to give me any discounts (most will), I simply don't bother to shop there.
This boycotting of Apple Pay is ridiculous and I find it very hard to believe that it will last. It's going to wind up being the equivalent of not accepting a major credit card. These stores will lose business and as someone else pointed out, at least some of them are chains that are already in big trouble anyway. You can't fight Apple - they're simply too successful (in regards to phones).
But as I've pointed out before, Apple Pay is not going to let you not carry a wallet until it's completely ubiquitous. That's going to take a long time. What it will probably do in its first few years is cause a reduction in the number of credit cards that people physically carry with them.
Bottom line: Self-serving interests at the expense of the consumer's experience, convenience, and security. They can fight the system (credit card fees) all they want, but the system (consumers) will fight back harder.
I love how the former Walmart executive put it. He doesn't know if CurrentC will succeed, as long as Visa suffers. So narrow-minded! So this is really about a pissing match, which Walmart started, and then blossoming into harvesting customer data while they're at it.
This is the scary part:
"CurrentC notes it may share info with your device maker, app store, or developer tool makers. Oddly, it will collect health data. Precise location information is used to verify you’re at the retailer where you’re making a transaction, and if you opt in it can be used for marketing or advertising."
I'm not sure why I'm getting so much flack for explaining that I need printed receipts for my CPA to do my taxes. I've been using the same firm for twenty years and they save me thousands every year on deductions because they provide an exhaustive, comprehensive, detailed, account of every possible tax advantage I can legally use and it has never been challenged by the IRS, but he requires hard copy of everything in order to make it official.
Well then your accountant is either in the dark ages or is unduly anal. I can see an accountant wanting original printed copies of 1099s and W2s, but as far as expenses are concerned, I just keep a big spreadsheet which I create from statements, not from receipts, and we simply orally walk through each category of deductions in the spreadsheet. The fact is that the only "receipt" that gets attached to a a return is a W2. Even 1099s don't get attached, although the IRS will internally compare your 1099 numbers with those supplied by the 1099 sender.
I personally keep printed receipts (when I have them) only up until receiving a statement. When I receive a statement (especially on my business credit card), I might mark it up a bit so I remember what the expense was about (if it's not obvious), but I then toss the receipts. The only original receipts I keep are those for large purchases where there are warranties involved.
For business lunches, cabs, mileage deductions, etc., the IRS doesn't even require receipts if you're audited. They only require a "diary".
But as I've pointed out before, Apple Pay is not going to let you not carry a wallet until it's completely ubiquitous. That's going to take a long time. What it will probably do in its first few years is cause a reduction in the number of credit cards that people physically carry with them.
That all depends on what you're expecting to do. For example, I might now go for an extended bike ride without my wallet or a physical card, just my iPhone which I'd use anyway for music, knowing that I can stop at certain places to use ?Pay. However, if I'm going to other places I might also want to carry cash. I say that as someone that usually doesn't carry cash despite having at least change in my car for parking meters even though most (if not all) around me have taken cards for years now.
IOW, for ?Pay to be a success it doesn't have to supplant the carrying of physical cards, just as the physical card hasn't yet supplanted the cashing of cash.
As a business owner, I despise the credit card companies and banks that charge obscene transaction fees and charges. On top of that, in many states, they get laws passed that do not allow a business to charge a higher price for credit customers, or a lower price for cash customers. Merchant fees are a structural tax on a business, and card users are kept in the fold through cash rewards, airline miles, etc. Plus, most card companies are notorious for protecting even bad customers when they dispute charges for services rendered properly.
So you have to understand why retailers do things like this. They would like credit card companies and the 2-5% fees to go away.
However, I do think that CurrentC, PayPal and others like them will fail because they are clunky to use compared to regular credit cards, and the retailers will not stop accepting credit cards. Therefore, a standard chip and pin credit card will still be easier to use than CurrentC and by turning off NFC that already was working, these particular retailers are just making things for difficult for their customers.
If they have the confidence and convictions to support CurrentC, I would expect them to stop accepting all credit cards. That won't happen, and that is why they will eventually cave and turn on NFC or buy new terminals.
I actually despise people with their phone in hand at checkout especially if they are talking or txting on it. Just hang up and pay. If you are delaying the checkout process with your phone preoccupation, the people behind you should flog you.
I don't use it when I'm in the checkout process, it's just in my hand. Not a difficult concept.
Comments
I've been to a few places that use the iPad for their checkout station that will hand you the entire iPad to sign your card and it has an excessively large area in which to sign. In those instances I like to draw a picture as my signature. Usually something scenic.
I use to save recipes but now I just use my yearly card statements to grab all the data from the comprehensive PDF they let me download.
I'm sure Apple was well aware of the risks of jumping into a market segment that is outside of their primary area of domain expertise. No matter how logical or how customer focused Apple's payment system is they are going up against an industry built around incestuous relationships between product manufacturers, distributors, retails, and payment systems. Everyone wants their cut of the take and retailers have long been harvesting data from their customers for resale under the phony premise of "customer loyalty" programs. The retailers, especially in highly saturated markets, know very well that customers aren't any more loyal to them than they are to every one of their competitors and will cherry pick from whomever has the better deal that day or that week. The value to the retailer is in the customer data they collect. On the other hand, the margins for some of these retailers, especially the grocery chains are so astonishingly thin that you can't blame them for trying to take a cut anyplace they possibly can.
In any case, Apple should be pushing harder through the industry standards, consortiums, and federations like the NRF (National Retail Federation) and ARTS (Association for Retail Technology Standards) rather than solely going after individual retailers. Unfortunately, at least in the US, there is not an implicit expectation of privacy in payment chains and the retailers exploit this to the nth degree. Apple would do well to take Apply Pay to Europe where the privacy laws are more stringent and controlled.
I will vote with my (virtual) wallet and take my business to retailers who support Apple Pay, thereby giving me the choice to protect my privacy. I also trust Apple to safeguard my data much more than I trust Wal-Mart or CVS. I know, having "Wal-Mart" and "trust" in the same sentence defies logic and reason.
Will be interesting to watch how these battles play out. This is similar to SoftCard (ISIS) trying to shut down Google wallet, then working with them. I believe SoftCard is also working with Apple so that you'll get both Apple pay and SoftCard on an iPhone. Seems a little moot to me as I think I know which most Apple users will prefer. On the flip side Apple's limitation is that it only works with a subset of consumers, where anyone can use SoftCard or Wallet.
I'm glad the Apple rollout is likely to make all systems more prominent, but I think the real edge Apple has is in the Touch ID.
This is quite similar to the shenanigans the carriers pulled by blocking google wallet in order to push SoftCard. But SoftCard didn't actually go out of their way to work with Google Wallet; Google eventually ran around them by switching to host card emulation and depriving them of their "secure element" excuse. In this case, though, it would be harder for Apple or Google to go, "you know what, we don't actually need your stinkin' NFC!"
And does your accountant drive a horse and buggy to work, hmmm ....? Hard copy isn't required. Whether on paper or digitally, all the IRS requires is that an expense be substantiated by evidence.
They'll know everything about the Apple Pay transaction if the loyalty card is used. What other data are they trying to retain? I think the PCI Standards Council should look at this very carefully.
I think they're just jealous of Apple coming up with a system that could earn them billions per year. However, I have no desire to use a different system at each merchant.
They are acting foolishly that will hurt them financially in the future as more consumers use NFC (e. g., Apple Pay, Google Wallet). The customer should decide what system to use, not the merchant.
Such rubbish. Half of us are self employed, we know how it works. You provide papers where you have papers, and digital files for the rest.
Last I heard, yesterday, there were no reviews for the CurrentC app on the App Store. My guess is that has changed.
edit: Yep. So far, two are 1 star and one is 5 star, saying it will be an "Apple Pay killer." LOL
edit 2: There are lot more comments than three.
Correct is not faith! Is just that apple makes product thinking of the user first. Apple give usefullness to their product. Thats is the reason i like apple. A 1000 features dont mean anything if you have no use for then. Faithfull no i just support the company that makes what i like so that they can continue making it!
Tell them that and not the clerk at the retailer. Ask to speak to the manager, write a snail mail or email letter or post on their social media.
If enough people do it, they'll get the message. They are trying to keep a part of the card transaction fee for themselves, just as Apple is doing with Apple Pay. Let them come out with their system, but don't ban other NFC systems. Let the customer choose.
Ok, now I know you're just another dumb fucking troll getting his rocks off. Anybody not willfully squeezing his eyes shut knows that's not true, that with apple pay its not necessary to even unlock the device let alone futz around with swipes, signatures or keying in PINs - simply place finger over Touch ID, place at the terminal. Vibrates and you're done.
Get lost.
And somebody dared to call me insane for vocally opposing this?
Screw both CVS and Rite-Aid! They deserve to go out of business! I hope that they do and that thousands of jobs are lost!
Who in their right mind wants to use their crappy and not secure payment systems!
I do not trust any crappy retailer! Just look at all of the hack attacks and security breaches that have been happening to various retailers!
I do not want any of these places to have access to any of my info! GTFO!
Apple users who have the choice will simply take their business elsewhere!
Kiss my ass CVS and Rite-Aid!
Boycotting goes both ways, and two can play at that game! We'll see who comes out on top! Hint: It wont be them and their laughable payment system!
The problem is that many medical insurance plans today pre-define who you must use to fulfill prescriptions on the plan. So at least as far as prescriptions are concerned, many people can't switch pharmacies.
If you use any of the affinity/membership programs, where you have to swipe a tag at checkout in order to get points or discounts, they're already tracking everything you purchase, which bugs the hell out of me. I predict that within a few years, someone is going to get denied health insurance because the insurance company has discovered that a diabetic was buying lots of cookies from the grocery store. I do use one of those tags, but I gave them a phony name and address. At other retailers, I just don't bother and if they won't swipe a store tag at the register to give me any discounts (most will), I simply don't bother to shop there.
This boycotting of Apple Pay is ridiculous and I find it very hard to believe that it will last. It's going to wind up being the equivalent of not accepting a major credit card. These stores will lose business and as someone else pointed out, at least some of them are chains that are already in big trouble anyway. You can't fight Apple - they're simply too successful (in regards to phones).
But as I've pointed out before, Apple Pay is not going to let you not carry a wallet until it's completely ubiquitous. That's going to take a long time. What it will probably do in its first few years is cause a reduction in the number of credit cards that people physically carry with them.
Interesting read on MCX/CurrentC. It mentions CVS' pull of its "unofficial" Apple Pay support.
http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/
Bottom line: Self-serving interests at the expense of the consumer's experience, convenience, and security. They can fight the system (credit card fees) all they want, but the system (consumers) will fight back harder.
I love how the former Walmart executive put it. He doesn't know if CurrentC will succeed, as long as Visa suffers. So narrow-minded! So this is really about a pissing match, which Walmart started, and then blossoming into harvesting customer data while they're at it.
This is the scary part:
"CurrentC notes it may share info with your device maker, app store, or developer tool makers. Oddly, it will collect health data. Precise location information is used to verify you’re at the retailer where you’re making a transaction, and if you opt in it can be used for marketing or advertising."
Good luck with that!
I'm not sure why I'm getting so much flack for explaining that I need printed receipts for my CPA to do my taxes. I've been using the same firm for twenty years and they save me thousands every year on deductions because they provide an exhaustive, comprehensive, detailed, account of every possible tax advantage I can legally use and it has never been challenged by the IRS, but he requires hard copy of everything in order to make it official.
Well then your accountant is either in the dark ages or is unduly anal. I can see an accountant wanting original printed copies of 1099s and W2s, but as far as expenses are concerned, I just keep a big spreadsheet which I create from statements, not from receipts, and we simply orally walk through each category of deductions in the spreadsheet. The fact is that the only "receipt" that gets attached to a a return is a W2. Even 1099s don't get attached, although the IRS will internally compare your 1099 numbers with those supplied by the 1099 sender.
I personally keep printed receipts (when I have them) only up until receiving a statement. When I receive a statement (especially on my business credit card), I might mark it up a bit so I remember what the expense was about (if it's not obvious), but I then toss the receipts. The only original receipts I keep are those for large purchases where there are warranties involved.
For business lunches, cabs, mileage deductions, etc., the IRS doesn't even require receipts if you're audited. They only require a "diary".
That all depends on what you're expecting to do. For example, I might now go for an extended bike ride without my wallet or a physical card, just my iPhone which I'd use anyway for music, knowing that I can stop at certain places to use ?Pay. However, if I'm going to other places I might also want to carry cash. I say that as someone that usually doesn't carry cash despite having at least change in my car for parking meters even though most (if not all) around me have taken cards for years now.
IOW, for ?Pay to be a success it doesn't have to supplant the carrying of physical cards, just as the physical card hasn't yet supplanted the cashing of cash.
*Later, while being indicted for fraud*
“Now, Mr. Solipsism, could you please tell us about this... signature... used to buy [product] at [time]?”
“I dunno, is it a picture of the French Riviera?”
“... Yes, yes it is. I’m sorry, sir; this has been a misunderstanding.”
So you have to understand why retailers do things like this. They would like credit card companies and the 2-5% fees to go away.
However, I do think that CurrentC, PayPal and others like them will fail because they are clunky to use compared to regular credit cards, and the retailers will not stop accepting credit cards.
Therefore, a standard chip and pin credit card will still be easier to use than CurrentC and by turning off NFC that already was working, these particular retailers are just making things for difficult for their customers.
If they have the confidence and convictions to support CurrentC, I would expect them to stop accepting all credit cards. That won't happen, and that is why they will eventually cave and turn on NFC or buy new terminals.
I don't use it when I'm in the checkout process, it's just in my hand. Not a difficult concept.