ApplePay actaully uses the tokenization software developed by Visa and MasterCard. It's everything after the NFC reader and is available to anyone that wants to use it. They just have to come up with a secure way of generating the token at the NFC terminal that meets Visa and MasterCard standards. The only thing proprietory to Apple is the way they generate the token, all within the iPhone.
I can see MS getting into it and even being able to license some of Apple, Inc. technology. But Google will not. The amount of money they will receive for generating a secure token for the transaction (.15/$100) pales compare to the amount of money they can generate by data mining their customers credit card purchases. Plus it will help spread the use of NFC terminals that ApplePay users can take advantage of. It's a lose/lose situation for Google and Android.
Google already uses their own method of shielding your credit card number from the merchant; the merchant sees only a virtual credit card number, and stealing that number wouldn't let you make purchases because the CVV is randomized for each transaction. Apple Pay, GWallet, and other NFC payment systems are not mutually exclusive. As long as the merchant has an NFC terminal, it can support multiple NFC payment systems with different backends.
It' probably been said multiple times but I hope Apple, heck even Google, remove the apps for CurrentC from their respective app stores. I'm sure they both have small print that could justify this easily. Then we'd see Walmart et all having to make and sell their own device to use their system.
That said, I can see Google seeing this issue as a way to at least have a chance at surviving against ?Pay and come to some agreement with the CurrentC system by being willing to share the data whereas Apple never will.
Apple can't share your CC purchase data because they keep no record of it. Apple don't even keep your real CC number. (Only the ones you use for your Apple accounts.) The transaction do not go through their cloud. The transaction takes place between your iPhone, the retailers NFC terminal and the bank. All done using a one time use token, generated in your iPhone, that can be linked back to your real CC only at the bank end. The retailer do not see your real CC number. Though the token can be linked back to it's original purchase, it can not be used to see other purchases made by you because it is a one time use token. Your iPhone generate a new unique token every time you make a purchase. That's why companies that wants to data mine your purchasing habits, aren't too keen on using ApplePay or the tokenization process developed by Visa and MasterCard that it's based on.
It's going to be tough to get the word out here. The bulk of people who most frequently spend money in these stores are older, and less technically aware. Surely it's easy to get the web community in an uproar, but a lot of people don't think about this stuff at all.
Maybe someone should print up an activist sticker that can be plastered onto the NFC terminals.
It would also get on the news if CurrentC gave someone ebola, or maybe abducted a pretty white girl. Useful news is a rare animal these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjd
Isn't this in some way against the law to deliberately refuse a legal tender for good they are selling?
That's adorable. No, there is no law forcing acceptance of any type of legal tender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by austingaijin
Sent to CVS and RiteAid:
| CVS should know that they will no longer receive any of my family's business due to
| denial of Apple Pay services. To help your demographers, we are a family of four, I am
| a 47 year old male, our combined household income is $267K/yr.
FWIW: tacking the income on there is not helping your cause. You're showing them how far out on the fringe of their target demographic you are. The average isle-walking CVS customer is not part of a $267K/yr household. It's not like you buy 8x as much BP medication just because you earn 8x as much as the normal customer.
Apple can't share your CC purchase data because they keep no record of it. Apple don't even keep your real CC number. (Only the ones you use for your Apple accounts.) The transaction do not go through their cloud. The transaction takes place between your iPhone, the retailers NFC terminal and the bank. All done using a one time use token, generated in your iPhone, that can be linked back to your real CC only at the bank end. The retailer do not see your real CC number. Though the token can be linked back to it's original purchase, it can not be used to see other purchases made by you because it is a one time use token. Your iPhone generate a new unique token every time you make a purchase. That's why companies that wants to data mine your purchasing habits, aren't too keen on using ApplePay or the tokenization process developed by Visa and MasterCard that it's based on.
Not sharing your credit card number in no way prevents the retailer tracking you as a customer. You're confusing the two and assuming that one prevents the other.
Example: If you have a Walgreen's iOS app on your phone, or I believe any other iBeacon-compatible app that might use the same backend provider, then Walgreens has the capability of personalizing an offer or ad just for you as soon as you enter the store, follow you thru the aisles while noting wherever you stop and for how long to help determine interests, and find out for certain if that targeted ad resulted in a sale. Default iAds, default bluetooth, iBeacons, compatible apps that no longer need to be open to receive offers, and loyalty programs are all connected. Apple has really done a great job in thinking everything thru. ApplePay completes it.
What's all the brouhaha? This is called competition, a no-holds-barred free-for-all, and it's fine, as long as it's not illegal. All kinds of interests are at stake here, other payment-systems, banks, credit card companies, hardware manufacturers, etc. In the end, there'll be winners and losers, but usually the consumer ends up with the best deal (usually, but not always!). I hope Apple wins so my stock goes up, but there's no guarantee, and it'll take some time for the dust to settle.
2. After cashier rings up your $200-$500 tab, whip out your iphone...
3. Upon learning they WONT accept NFC, refuse to provide another credit card
4. "OK, no problem. Cancel this order, Im just going to go over to Walgreens"
You also forgot...
5. Get stared at like an idiot by the employee who will have to put all your stuff back because you decided to attempt a point in front of a person who has no say in the company's decision and simply wanted to go home on time.
6. Walk out of the store acting smug after having wasted 30-40 minutes of your time making no real point whatsoever.
It's a plan, I guess. Not a good plan. But a plan nevertheless.
I am not sure (and don't care if) the government can do anything but signing the petition is quick and easy. Posting to Facebook and Twitter will ensure awareness.
Why is this a petition? The government has absolutely no reason whatsoever to get involved here. The group is well within their rights not to support NFC if they so choose. Screw these idiots.
I believe that you can't refuse paper money stamped by the United States of America, in America. I might be mistaken though.
No, there are no laws forcing acceptance of certain forms of payment. There are laws that payment denominated in US dollars be accepted, in an acceptable form.
One quick example is in-flight drink purchases. Many airlines explicitly no longer accept cash.
What's all the brouhaha? This is called competition, a no-holds-barred free-for-all, and it's fine, as long as it's not illegal. All kinds of interests are at stake here, other payment-systems, banks, credit card companies, hardware manufacturers, etc. In the end, there'll be winners and losers, but usually the consumer ends up with the best deal (usually, but not always!). I hope Apple wins so my stock goes up, but there's no guarantee, and it'll take some time for the dust to settle.
lol. I'm always entertained when I read comments from people aiming to depict themselves as the voice-of-reason referee. I think it's safe to say that anyone with a brain is familiar with the concept of "competition". But this does not mean that it's impracticle for a person to be unhappy with the limitations that some kinds of competition impose. CurrentC exclusivity inhibits the features that people paid for when upgrading to Apple's latest hardware. That's the "brouhaha". The competition is Hurting the user experience that people hoped/expected to have with their new iphones.
Not sharing your credit card number in no way prevents the retailer tracking you as a customer. You're confusing the two and assuming that one prevent the other.
Example: If you have a Walgreen's app on your phone, or I believe any other app that might use the same backend provider, then Walgreens has the capability of personalizing an offer or ad just for you as soon as you enter the store, follow you as your browse the aisles and note wherever you stop and for how long to help determine interests, and find out for certain if that targeted ad resulted in a sale. Default iAds, default bluetooth, iBeacons, compatible apps that no longer need to be open to receive offers, and loyalty programs are all connected. Apple has really done a great job in thinking everything thru. ApplePay completes it.
I'm aware of that. I have no problem with a store tracking my purchases made in their stores, with some customer rewards program or app. It's a choice I made. I use a Luckys and Walgreen Reward all the time to take advanage of their offers. But I do have a problem with some one like Google or this "CurrentC" thing tracking and data mining my purchases across many different stores (or in the case of GWallet across every purchase.), without having a say in it. And I know my CC issuer tracks my purchases. But a least I get bonus points, for using the CC, that can be converted to cash. Where's my check from Google for all the money they made off me by selling by personal data to advertisers?
Apple can't share your CC purchase data because they keep no record of it. Apple don't even keep your real CC number. (Only the ones you use for your Apple accounts.) The transaction do not go through their cloud. The transaction takes place between your iPhone, the retailers NFC terminal and the bank. All done using a one time use token, generated in your iPhone, that can be linked back to your real CC only at the bank end. The retailer do not see your real CC number. Though the token can be linked back to it's original purchase, it can not be used to see other purchases made by you because it is a one time use token. Your iPhone generate a new unique token every time you make a purchase. That's why companies that wants to data mine your purchasing habits, aren't too keen on using ApplePay or the tokenization process developed by Visa and MasterCard that it's based on.
Not sure what you added to my comment? Or were you replying to someone else in error?
No, there are no laws forcing acceptance of certain forms of payment. There are laws that payment denominated in US dollars be accepted, in an acceptable form.
One quick example is in-flight drink purchases. Many airlines explicitly no longer accept cash.
Now there is an excellent use of ?Pay. Dewar's on the rocks please.
Apple could easily enable this in a way that the consortium would agree to, in fact that might be the whole point of passbook.
Download an app from CVS. User agrees to share info with CVS in their shops ( new privacy API). When buying using apple pay if the returned data contains a CVS specific code then all of the blob of data ( which has purchases but not credit card data) is passed back to the app. The app is awakened with this info and can store it. Since a device with a fingerprint is automatically a per user per device setting the app will be able to safely credit the owner of that device ( who has already signed into the CVS app) with whatever credit or points he gets.
Comments
ApplePay actaully uses the tokenization software developed by Visa and MasterCard. It's everything after the NFC reader and is available to anyone that wants to use it. They just have to come up with a secure way of generating the token at the NFC terminal that meets Visa and MasterCard standards. The only thing proprietory to Apple is the way they generate the token, all within the iPhone.
I can see MS getting into it and even being able to license some of Apple, Inc. technology. But Google will not. The amount of money they will receive for generating a secure token for the transaction (.15/$100) pales compare to the amount of money they can generate by data mining their customers credit card purchases. Plus it will help spread the use of NFC terminals that ApplePay users can take advantage of. It's a lose/lose situation for Google and Android.
Google already uses their own method of shielding your credit card number from the merchant; the merchant sees only a virtual credit card number, and stealing that number wouldn't let you make purchases because the CVV is randomized for each transaction. Apple Pay, GWallet, and other NFC payment systems are not mutually exclusive. As long as the merchant has an NFC terminal, it can support multiple NFC payment systems with different backends.
It' probably been said multiple times but I hope Apple, heck even Google, remove the apps for CurrentC from their respective app stores. I'm sure they both have small print that could justify this easily. Then we'd see Walmart et all having to make and sell their own device to use their system.
That said, I can see Google seeing this issue as a way to at least have a chance at surviving against ?Pay and come to some agreement with the CurrentC system by being willing to share the data whereas Apple never will.
Apple can't share your CC purchase data because they keep no record of it. Apple don't even keep your real CC number. (Only the ones you use for your Apple accounts.) The transaction do not go through their cloud. The transaction takes place between your iPhone, the retailers NFC terminal and the bank. All done using a one time use token, generated in your iPhone, that can be linked back to your real CC only at the bank end. The retailer do not see your real CC number. Though the token can be linked back to it's original purchase, it can not be used to see other purchases made by you because it is a one time use token. Your iPhone generate a new unique token every time you make a purchase. That's why companies that wants to data mine your purchasing habits, aren't too keen on using ApplePay or the tokenization process developed by Visa and MasterCard that it's based on.
It's going to be tough to get the word out here. The bulk of people who most frequently spend money in these stores are older, and less technically aware. Surely it's easy to get the web community in an uproar, but a lot of people don't think about this stuff at all.
Maybe someone should print up an activist sticker that can be plastered onto the NFC terminals.
It would also get on the news if CurrentC gave someone ebola, or maybe abducted a pretty white girl. Useful news is a rare animal these days.
Quote:
Isn't this in some way against the law to deliberately refuse a legal tender for good they are selling?
That's adorable. No, there is no law forcing acceptance of any type of legal tender.
Sent to CVS and RiteAid:
| CVS should know that they will no longer receive any of my family's business due to
| denial of Apple Pay services. To help your demographers, we are a family of four, I am
| a 47 year old male, our combined household income is $267K/yr.
FWIW: tacking the income on there is not helping your cause. You're showing them how far out on the fringe of their target demographic you are. The average isle-walking CVS customer is not part of a $267K/yr household. It's not like you buy 8x as much BP medication just because you earn 8x as much as the normal customer.
delicious irony if they get hacked aka target. wow that will change their tune probably lose some ceo over this
Which is very likely to happen... declaring war on security never works that well.
And track you purchases and share with their partners
Not sharing your credit card number in no way prevents the retailer tracking you as a customer. You're confusing the two and assuming that one prevents the other.
Example: If you have a Walgreen's iOS app on your phone, or I believe any other iBeacon-compatible app that might use the same backend provider, then Walgreens has the capability of personalizing an offer or ad just for you as soon as you enter the store, follow you thru the aisles while noting wherever you stop and for how long to help determine interests, and find out for certain if that targeted ad resulted in a sale. Default iAds, default bluetooth, iBeacons, compatible apps that no longer need to be open to receive offers, and loyalty programs are all connected. Apple has really done a great job in thinking everything thru. ApplePay completes it.
My rating/review is shown as highlighted:
Nice username, but I guess it's unrelated to the seed bank ^^
That's adorable. No, there is no law forcing acceptance of any type of legal tender.
I believe that you can't refuse paper money stamped by the United States of America, in America. I might be mistaken though.
Depends on what kind of seed you're referring to ...
Ha! Nice catch! Forgot I used that name -- I haven't written an iTunes review in years.
Kokopelli is my idol!
1. Go To CVS. FILL a shopping cart full of stuff
2. After cashier rings up your $200-$500 tab, whip out your iphone...
3. Upon learning they WONT accept NFC, refuse to provide another credit card
4. "OK, no problem. Cancel this order, Im just going to go over to Walgreens"
You also forgot...
5. Get stared at like an idiot by the employee who will have to put all your stuff back because you decided to attempt a point in front of a person who has no say in the company's decision and simply wanted to go home on time.
6. Walk out of the store acting smug after having wasted 30-40 minutes of your time making no real point whatsoever.
It's a plan, I guess. Not a good plan. But a plan nevertheless.
Please spread the word on Facebook and Twitter!
I am not sure (and don't care if) the government can do anything but signing the petition is quick and easy. Posting to Facebook and Twitter will ensure awareness.
Why is this a petition? The government has absolutely no reason whatsoever to get involved here. The group is well within their rights not to support NFC if they so choose. Screw these idiots.
Luckily I didn’t say that.
I believe that you can't refuse paper money stamped by the United States of America, in America. I might be mistaken though.
No, there are no laws forcing acceptance of certain forms of payment. There are laws that payment denominated in US dollars be accepted, in an acceptable form.
One quick example is in-flight drink purchases. Many airlines explicitly no longer accept cash.
lol. I'm always entertained when I read comments from people aiming to depict themselves as the voice-of-reason referee. I think it's safe to say that anyone with a brain is familiar with the concept of "competition". But this does not mean that it's impracticle for a person to be unhappy with the limitations that some kinds of competition impose. CurrentC exclusivity inhibits the features that people paid for when upgrading to Apple's latest hardware. That's the "brouhaha". The competition is Hurting the user experience that people hoped/expected to have with their new iphones.
Not sharing your credit card number in no way prevents the retailer tracking you as a customer. You're confusing the two and assuming that one prevent the other.
Example: If you have a Walgreen's app on your phone, or I believe any other app that might use the same backend provider, then Walgreens has the capability of personalizing an offer or ad just for you as soon as you enter the store, follow you as your browse the aisles and note wherever you stop and for how long to help determine interests, and find out for certain if that targeted ad resulted in a sale. Default iAds, default bluetooth, iBeacons, compatible apps that no longer need to be open to receive offers, and loyalty programs are all connected. Apple has really done a great job in thinking everything thru. ApplePay completes it.
I'm aware of that. I have no problem with a store tracking my purchases made in their stores, with some customer rewards program or app. It's a choice I made. I use a Luckys and Walgreen Reward all the time to take advanage of their offers. But I do have a problem with some one like Google or this "CurrentC" thing tracking and data mining my purchases across many different stores (or in the case of GWallet across every purchase.), without having a say in it. And I know my CC issuer tracks my purchases. But a least I get bonus points, for using the CC, that can be converted to cash. Where's my check from Google for all the money they made off me by selling by personal data to advertisers?
Not sure what you added to my comment? Or were you replying to someone else in error?
Now there is an excellent use of ?Pay. Dewar's on the rocks please.
Download an app from CVS.
User agrees to share info with CVS in their shops ( new privacy API).
When buying using apple pay if the returned data contains a CVS specific code then all of the blob of data ( which has purchases but not credit card data) is passed back to the app.
The app is awakened with this info and can store it.
Since a device with a fingerprint is automatically a per user per device setting the app will be able to safely credit the owner of that device ( who has already signed into the CVS app) with whatever credit or points he gets.