Not sure how I feel about this. I see the potential for abuse, but at a base level, how much of an invasion of privacy is this? If they are only collecting IMSI data and location information, I have no problem with that. This seems to be analogous to having a police car driving around checking for license plates of cars linked to suspected criminals - actually this would be more invasive as the police could observe, while driving around, the behavior of people who were not suspects.
I definitely have a problem with the DOJ collecting audio, text, or data. There would have to be a search warrant beforehand. I just don't trust them enough to believe there wouldn't be any illegal data collection.
After reading the article title again, I wonder how you would mount a cell tower on fake airplane? Seems easier to have a airplane-mounted fake cell tower.
'Scuse me, but the level of alarm over this seems a bit OTT given that there is nothing to stop [I]any[/I] authority secretly leasing a two_feet_square space for a "Dirtbox" adjacent to [I]every[/I] cell tower in the land. Ahem...theoretically speaking of course. :grumble:
In addition, dirtboxes can interrupt calls, while newer versions are capable of jamming signals and scraping rich data like texts and photos.
Texts could be intercepted, and picture messages too since they're plaintext, not encrypted.
Since dirtboxes are exploiting the fundamental structure shared by all cellular networks, no level of encryption is able to withstand the noninvasive attack.
This is not entirely correct. Cellular calls and text messages (non-IP based) are sniffable with a fake cell tower, but encrypted data isn't without supercomputer-grade decryption, or the private keys. Regarding a normal cell tower, the data isn't encrypted at the cell tower's location, it's encrypted all the way to Apple's servers. Spoofing SSL data sent to the phone is essentially impossible without the private keys of the server the user requested data from. Same with data sent from the phone. The DOJ is simply performing a man-in-the-middle attack, which is exactly what SSL is designed to detect and avoid. I'm fairly certain I read recently that Apple no longer stores private keys itself for iMessage data, if this is the case, the DOJ can't decrypt the data through subpoenaing the keys since Apple doesn't have them. Most email is now encrypted too.
Are you kidding? You've been one of the biggest defenders of big government for "the public good" around. What "good" is possibly being served here?
Ugh. What a silly statement to make. Quite apart from painting with a broad brush -- I am no defender of 'big government,' whatever the heck that is -- if you think that erosion of privacy happens only by the government, you're much less cogent in your thinking than I've been giving you credit for all these years. Or it is perhaps a 'privacy can be violated by only the government' theory you've come up with (like your 'monopolies can be only created by the government' theory). :roll eyes
This is not entirely correct. Cellular calls and text messages (non-IP based) are sniffable with a fake cell tower, but encrypted data isn't without supercomputer-grade decryption, or the private keys. Regarding a normal cell tower, the data isn't encrypted at the cell tower's location, it's encrypted all the way to Apple's servers. Spoofing SSL data sent to the phone is essentially impossible without the private keys of the server the user requested data from. Same with data sent from the phone. The DOJ is simply performing a man-in-the-middle attack, which is exactly what SSL is designed to detect and avoid.
Encryption will not prevent these boxes from uniquely identifying your device and your location within just a few meters. As I read it that's the goal of the program, not harvesting photos or reading text messages. It's meant to help locate persons of interest.
I'm fairly certain I read recently that Apple no longer stores private keys itself for iMessage data, if this is the case, the DOJ can't decrypt the data through subpoenaing the keys since Apple doesn't have them. Most email is now encrypted too.
Neither Apple nor Google store the private encryption keys so neither would be able to comply with a subpoena demanding access, a bone of contention for law enforcement and national security interests.
I know a guy who used to work in corporate security. He would regularly get calls from "crank" businesspeople to come and scan their premises for bugs and listening devices.
He said the scariest part of the business was not the cranks. The scariest thing was that most people who they were being bugged actually were.
That being said, 9-11 really happened. This is not just a civil liberties issue anymore. To pretend there aren't evil people in the world who are plotting mass-murder is naive and foolish. They are there and they will do it again if given the chance. Heck, they are doing it, regularly around the world.
Do I like it that the DOJ can fly around and locate people like this? No.
But if someone is planning to blow up a school or a shopping mall, or shoot down a plane, I'd very much want the authorities to be able to find them.
If I have to choose between Al Queda, Hamas, ISIL et al or the U.S. Government (with all its faults), I know which side I have to be on.
Am I safer now than I was before 9-11? Well my wife and kids and I are still alive and well. Some things have gotten less convenient. But society is not gripped with paralyzing fear and paranoia. Babies are being born. People are working and playing and living their lives without worrying about getting blown up on a regular basis (as they do in some parts of the world).
Despite all the press the U.S. has gotten in recent years, it's still the destination of choice for many people looking for a better life - because it's so much better than where they're coming from. It's a dangerous world. In the United States there are, at least theoretically, checks and balances on the power of government for which we should be grateful.
So Obama's inJustice Department is doing this, to "combat terrorism" arguably its justification? Yet, Obama is actively protecting Saudis who directly helped finance and facilitate 9/11; Obama is protecting al-Qaeda terrorists who caused terrorism against us. It is Obama's inJustice Department that also is fighting against 9/11 Families in US Supreme Court by siding with the Saudis who helped attack us, by trying to block the 9/11 Families & Survivors' civil suit that names the Saudi government as defendant along with other Saudi groups and indviduals. The 28-page wholly excised, redacted and classified chapter 5 from the 2002 Joint 9/11 Congressional Inquiry report that details and names specific groups and individuals who directly financed and aided the 9/11 hijackers, was fully classified by Bush to intentionally protect those who helped attack us. Treason. This reportedly includes Bandar "Bush" bin Sultan and his wife, Princess Haifa. Obama protects them just like Bush protected them, while blocking 9/11 Families just like Bush had. The worst thing is, Obama has promised 9/11 Families to their faces on mulitple occassions he would declassify the 28 Pages, he has since broken his repeated promises and reneged. US Congressmen who have read what is contained in the 28 Pages, who are trying to work with the 9/11 Families by trying to get the chapter declassified and released (H.R. 428), have said there is information contained that is DIRECTLY related to the civil suit against the Saudi government; information that DIRECTLY helps prove the 9/11 Families & Survivors' case that Saudi government officials, who both Bush & Obama have protected, were involved in attacking us on 9/11.
The fake cell tower DRT boxes are pathetic. Obama is trash, ahem, I mean Obama is Bush.
says the guy with eleventy-billion cctv cameras pointed at him right now? (i'm not disagreeing with your statement, mind you ... just pointing out a tad bit of irony. i never feel more watched or invaded than when i visit london.)
Exactly. The UK is the biggest Big Brother state on the planet.
I imagine the FBI director will get upset agin when everyone starts making phone calls over WiFi like the new iPhone 6 allows. There by negating this tactic if you are inside next to your wifi router.
We all die , its simply a question of when, the only question is what one does to evolve in the mean mean time. How did you treat the world today? Did help someone?
says the guy with eleventy-billion cctv cameras pointed at him right now? (i'm not disagreeing with your statement, mind you ... just pointing out a tad bit of irony. i never feel more watched or invaded than when i visit london.)
I agree, the British have been historically the most controlled and programmed sheep on the planet.
You can't honestly say the US is the land of the free anymore
You're free to have your government spy on you, even though you are innocent
And you are free to give up most of your rights
For "security"
It's sad when you see this
A lot of Americans after 9/11 said the terrorists wanted to hurt us because they didn't like our way of life
I hate to break it to you, but the bad guys won
You're way of life has changed.
You have given up most of your rights, all in the name of security
Can you honestly tell me you are safer now than you were prior to 9/11?
Sounds like the 9/11 was all about gov't conspiracy using it as an excuse to spy on Americans. EIther the terrorists succeeded as you said or the gov't succeeded in collecting all private information of the mass, or they both succeeded and the American people lost big. I guess I'll use my cell much less now. I think i can survive w/o my cell phone.
In that case, you have no objection to being held for no reason by spies and questioned under duress. There is no difference.
Exactly!. Where the warrant that allows you to just spy on anyone you please to? This is complete crap. This is just randomly spying on people looking for anything they may have done wrong. This is really like the police just going up to anyone, telling them to stop and be frisked, seeing if they have anything bad on them then checking their phone. Oh wait, they're doing this in N.Y. It's the growing police state!!!
Comments
I definitely have a problem with the DOJ collecting audio, text, or data. There would have to be a search warrant beforehand. I just don't trust them enough to believe there wouldn't be any illegal data collection.
Like that which occurs daily inside your own head?
Can you not stand to read what you wrote? " . . .exasperated . . ."?
Please don't exacerbate us here any more and just go away.
Are you kidding? You've been one of the biggest defenders of big government for "the public good" around. What "good" is possibly being served here?
Ahem...theoretically speaking of course. :grumble:
Texts could be intercepted, and picture messages too since they're plaintext, not encrypted.
This is not entirely correct. Cellular calls and text messages (non-IP based) are sniffable with a fake cell tower, but encrypted data isn't without supercomputer-grade decryption, or the private keys. Regarding a normal cell tower, the data isn't encrypted at the cell tower's location, it's encrypted all the way to Apple's servers. Spoofing SSL data sent to the phone is essentially impossible without the private keys of the server the user requested data from. Same with data sent from the phone. The DOJ is simply performing a man-in-the-middle attack, which is exactly what SSL is designed to detect and avoid. I'm fairly certain I read recently that Apple no longer stores private keys itself for iMessage data, if this is the case, the DOJ can't decrypt the data through subpoenaing the keys since Apple doesn't have them. Most email is now encrypted too.
Ugh. What a silly statement to make. Quite apart from painting with a broad brush -- I am no defender of 'big government,' whatever the heck that is -- if you think that erosion of privacy happens only by the government, you're much less cogent in your thinking than I've been giving you credit for all these years. Or it is perhaps a 'privacy can be violated by only the government' theory you've come up with (like your 'monopolies can be only created by the government' theory). :roll eyes
my question is... why the DED hate?.
...so now we need phones that detect moving cell phone towers!... LOL
ALERT!...ALERT!... cell phone tower moving!... LOL
so we need a fixed mode, so in this mode, your phone will not hand off to another cell tower... (meaning you must remain still to talk)
Encryption will not prevent these boxes from uniquely identifying your device and your location within just a few meters. As I read it that's the goal of the program, not harvesting photos or reading text messages. It's meant to help locate persons of interest.
Neither Apple nor Google store the private encryption keys so neither would be able to comply with a subpoena demanding access, a bone of contention for law enforcement and national security interests.
He said the scariest part of the business was not the cranks. The scariest thing was that most people who they were being bugged actually were.
That being said, 9-11 really happened. This is not just a civil liberties issue anymore. To pretend there aren't evil people in the world who are plotting mass-murder is naive and foolish. They are there and they will do it again if given the chance. Heck, they are doing it, regularly around the world.
Do I like it that the DOJ can fly around and locate people like this? No.
But if someone is planning to blow up a school or a shopping mall, or shoot down a plane, I'd very much want the authorities to be able to find them.
If I have to choose between Al Queda, Hamas, ISIL et al or the U.S. Government (with all its faults), I know which side I have to be on.
Am I safer now than I was before 9-11? Well my wife and kids and I are still alive and well. Some things have gotten less convenient. But society is not gripped with paralyzing fear and paranoia. Babies are being born. People are working and playing and living their lives without worrying about getting blown up on a regular basis (as they do in some parts of the world).
Despite all the press the U.S. has gotten in recent years, it's still the destination of choice for many people looking for a better life - because it's so much better than where they're coming from. It's a dangerous world. In the United States there are, at least theoretically, checks and balances on the power of government for which we should be grateful.
This proves that cell phone transmissions don't interfere with avionics.
Are you serious? A Cesna is in no way the same as a 737, 747 or any jet. Modern jets have a ton more avionic computers than a Cesna.Hope & Change ( jk! )
So Obama's inJustice Department is doing this, to "combat terrorism" arguably its justification? Yet, Obama is actively protecting Saudis who directly helped finance and facilitate 9/11; Obama is protecting al-Qaeda terrorists who caused terrorism against us. It is Obama's inJustice Department that also is fighting against 9/11 Families in US Supreme Court by siding with the Saudis who helped attack us, by trying to block the 9/11 Families & Survivors' civil suit that names the Saudi government as defendant along with other Saudi groups and indviduals. The 28-page wholly excised, redacted and classified chapter 5 from the 2002 Joint 9/11 Congressional Inquiry report that details and names specific groups and individuals who directly financed and aided the 9/11 hijackers, was fully classified by Bush to intentionally protect those who helped attack us. Treason. This reportedly includes Bandar "Bush" bin Sultan and his wife, Princess Haifa. Obama protects them just like Bush protected them, while blocking 9/11 Families just like Bush had. The worst thing is, Obama has promised 9/11 Families to their faces on mulitple occassions he would declassify the 28 Pages, he has since broken his repeated promises and reneged. US Congressmen who have read what is contained in the 28 Pages, who are trying to work with the 9/11 Families by trying to get the chapter declassified and released (H.R. 428), have said there is information contained that is DIRECTLY related to the civil suit against the Saudi government; information that DIRECTLY helps prove the 9/11 Families & Survivors' case that Saudi government officials, who both Bush & Obama have protected, were involved in attacking us on 9/11.
The fake cell tower DRT boxes are pathetic. Obama is trash, ahem, I mean Obama is Bush.
says the guy with eleventy-billion cctv cameras pointed at him right now? (i'm not disagreeing with your statement, mind you ... just pointing out a tad bit of irony. i never feel more watched or invaded than when i visit london.)
Exactly. The UK is the biggest Big Brother state on the planet.
Oooo, a snarky DED hater. I hardly ever see one of those.
I imagine the FBI director will get upset agin when everyone starts making phone calls over WiFi like the new iPhone 6 allows. There by negating this tactic if you are inside next to your wifi router.
says the guy with eleventy-billion cctv cameras pointed at him right now? (i'm not disagreeing with your statement, mind you ... just pointing out a tad bit of irony. i never feel more watched or invaded than when i visit london.)
I agree, the British have been historically the most controlled and programmed sheep on the planet.
You can't honestly say the US is the land of the free anymore
You're free to have your government spy on you, even though you are innocent
And you are free to give up most of your rights
For "security"
It's sad when you see this
A lot of Americans after 9/11 said the terrorists wanted to hurt us because they didn't like our way of life
I hate to break it to you, but the bad guys won
You're way of life has changed.
You have given up most of your rights, all in the name of security
Can you honestly tell me you are safer now than you were prior to 9/11?
Sounds like the 9/11 was all about gov't conspiracy using it as an excuse to spy on Americans. EIther the terrorists succeeded as you said or the gov't succeeded in collecting all private information of the mass, or they both succeeded and the American people lost big. I guess I'll use my cell much less now. I think i can survive w/o my cell phone.
Exactly!. Where the warrant that allows you to just spy on anyone you please to? This is complete crap. This is just randomly spying on people looking for anything they may have done wrong. This is really like the police just going up to anyone, telling them to stop and be frisked, seeing if they have anything bad on them then checking their phone. Oh wait, they're doing this in N.Y. It's the growing police state!!!