The data is good news but the article makes it sounds like Oct 2014 was the end of the quarter. It was not. The iPhone launched with 12 days left in the quarter in September. The data represents 3 months of data (August, September, October) so it was 6 weeks after launch. The China data is particularly impressive given the late launch of the iPhone.
Simple, not all poor people stay poor forever. Those that make it out of the muck will start making purchases. People are creatures of habit, and dislike change, so they're more apt to go with what they know.
So poor people who gain affluence still buy their clothes from WalMart, stick with their trusty Geo Metro car, and continue to drink liquor from plastic bottles? Good news for Android!
(well if that were true). What we are actually seeing is that people trade up from Android to buy iOS devices, which is why Apple is making all the money while Android licensees produce low end stuff that creates the "IDC winning" volumes supplying people who aren't selective.
Spain relationship with European Union is like Mexico with the States.
Yep. I lived there for a few years. I remember one guy from Columbia telling us "The rest of Europe is all so nice, Spain reminds me of the bad parts of Columbia".
So poor people who gain affluence still buy their clothes from WalMart, stick with their trusty Geo Metro car, and continue to drink liquor from plastic bottles? Good news for Android!
(well if that were true). What we are actually seeing is that people trade up from Android to buy iOS devices, which is why Apple is making all the money while Android licensees produce low end stuff that creates the "IDC winning" volumes supplying people who aren't selective.
Yes some indeed do. Jim Harbaugh is a multi-millionaire, and he still buys $8 khakis from Walmart, and JFK Jr used to drive a Hyundai Excel.
So poor people who gain affluence still buy their clothes from WalMart, stick with their trusty Geo Metro car, and continue to drink liquor from plastic bottles? Good news for Android!
(well if that were true). What we are actually seeing is that people trade up from Android to buy iOS devices, which is why Apple is making all the money while Android licensees produce low end stuff that creates the "IDC winning" volumes supplying people who aren't selective.
No. People who suddenly gain affluence are more likely to wear basic clothing like jeans and a sweater, not buy clothes at Walmart. It's a matter of familiarity, not place or brand. Even when your budget expands to allow for luxuries, you are less likely to select clothing for appearance rather than utility if you've never used that as a basis for purchases. I'm not quite sure that cars or liquor are the same because it's not something that takes a different skill to appreciate or purchase. Expensive cars and expensive spirits are can be just as readily driven or drunk as the cheap stuff. You just look better doing it.
I think phones fall somewhere in the middle. You don't need to learn new skills to appreciate or purchase a different brand of phone, but you might still limit yourself based on what you're accustomed to using.
No. People who suddenly gain affluence are more likely to wear basic clothing like jeans and a sweater, not buy clothes at Walmart. It's a matter of familiarity, not place or brand. Even when your budget expands to allow for luxuries, you are less likely to select clothing for appearance rather than utility if you've never used that as a basis for purchases. I'm not quite sure that cars or liquor are the same because it's not something that takes a different skill to appreciate or purchase. Expensive cars and expensive spirits are can be just as readily driven or drunk as the cheap stuff. You just look better doing it.
I think phones fall somewhere in the middle. You don't need to learn new skills to appreciate or purchase a different brand of phone, but you might still limit yourself based on what you're accustomed to using.
I also don't understand how we went from poor to affluent. That only happens to lottery winners, and athletes. There's a lot of middle ground in terms of financial status. One can graduate from Walmart to Macy's, but not to Barneys New York, or able to get a Coach bag, but not a Michael Kors one.
They're poor due to their politics, which is doubly shameful.
Look what has happened in Venezuela in 15 year going socialist and having the government take over and run everything. The place has gone into complete collapse! With the oil prices dropping, it's made things that much worse. They need $200 a barrel to pay their bills right now. You want government to run everything and try to make things fair! This is what you end up with.
I've seen charts before detailing iOS marketshare, and it's pretty easy to see that in many cases, the poorer the country, the lower the marketshare for iOS.
True, you can certainly make that analogy, it has been proven many times. As such this might certainly be the case for Spain.
However, Europe is a bit of a special case and Apple is not doing as good as it could over here. This is excluding the UK of course, because when it comes to these things the UK is more similar to the US rather than mainland Europe.
In most other European countries, Apple is only now slowly pushing for retail presence. Things are going slowly and in most countries you'd still need to travel hundreds of miles to get to an official Apple Store, if there is any. They're definitely moving into the right direction now.
Then you got countries, such as Germany, where most people view Apple with a lot of scepticism. This combined with the lack of wide spread retail presence makes for a lot of uninformed opinions.
Add to the mix that Apple is ridiculously overcharging in Europe when compared to US prices and you have a pretty good picture of why Apple is struggling in most of Europe. When you pay $749 for your unlocked iPhone, in Europe you pay the equivalent of around $1000 for the phone. That's quite steep. When you buy your MacBook Pro base model for $1499, in Europe you pay $2000 and so on. Obviously this gets more and more the higher the price. Similarly, when you get your contract iPhone for 200 bucks, in Europe you pay half of the US unlocked price for the same phone on contract. Given this, the Galaxy you can get for nothing starts to look quite interesting to people.
Sure, every country has different taxes and whatnot. Doing business in the US comes with less taxes than in some European countries, but the difference is not that huge, that I can tell from experience. More often than not, the base price in Euro is actually higher in Apple's Store than it is in USD, where it should be 20% less in Euro due to conversion rate alone.
So yes, I believe this is a huge mistake Apple is making here. In my opinion they could sell a lot more if prices were more or less in line with US prices. Also note that Apple is about the only one doing it this way. Almost all other manufacturers actually convert halfway appropriately and thus their goods don't seem totally overpriced over here.
It is also interesting to note, that Apple did not always do this. Personally, I've noticed this change in policy some time around the release of the iPhone 5. Not sure what rid them.
This is an issue that has nothing to do with poverty but with feeling totally screwed over. That's dangerous especially when you can't really get your message through in those countries thanks to lack of real presence and much less aggressive advertising.
Don't blame Apple for prices in Europe.
Blame the EU for creating the Euro. If the Euro dies, prices will come down.
Spain relationship with European Union is like Mexico with the States.
Yep. I lived there for a few years. I remember one guy from Columbia telling us "The rest of Europe is all so nice, Spain reminds me of the bad parts of Columbia".
I believe that in Spain, one finds that it rains mainly on the plain.
Wouldn't it be because Apple makes only those four models,
as opposed to dozens of other models, albeit all with smaller shares?
Or were you kidding?
Nope.. not kidding. I guess the answer is that model sales are HIGHLY fragmented... a.k.a : there is a long long list of models all of which have small % share
I think that's what I said, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost
I believe that in Spain, one finds that it rains mainly on the plain.
I believe that in Spain, the problem has traditionally been where the reins fall...
True, you can certainly make that analogy, it has been proven many times. As such this might certainly be the case for Spain.
However, Europe is a bit of a special case and Apple is not doing as good as it could over here. This is excluding the UK of course, because when it comes to these things the UK is more similar to the US rather than mainland Europe.
In most other European countries, Apple is only now slowly pushing for retail presence. Things are going slowly and in most countries you'd still need to travel hundreds of miles to get to an official Apple Store, if there is any. They're definitely moving into the right direction now.
Then you got countries, such as Germany, where most people view Apple with a lot of scepticism. This combined with the lack of wide spread retail presence makes for a lot of uninformed opinions.
Add to the mix that Apple is ridiculously overcharging in Europe when compared to US prices and you have a pretty good picture of why Apple is struggling in most of Europe. When you pay $749 for your unlocked iPhone, in Europe you pay the equivalent of around $1000 for the phone. That's quite steep. When you buy your MacBook Pro base model for $1499, in Europe you pay $2000 and so on. Obviously this gets more and more the higher the price. Similarly, when you get your contract iPhone for 200 bucks, in Europe you pay half of the US unlocked price for the same phone on contract. Given this, the Galaxy you can get for nothing starts to look quite interesting to people.
Sure, every country has different taxes and whatnot. Doing business in the US comes with less taxes than in some European countries, but the difference is not that huge, that I can tell from experience. More often than not, the base price in Euro is actually higher in Apple's Store than it is in USD, where it should be 20% less in Euro due to conversion rate alone.
So yes, I believe this is a huge mistake Apple is making here. In my opinion they could sell a lot more if prices were more or less in line with US prices. Also note that Apple is about the only one doing it this way. Almost all other manufacturers actually convert halfway appropriately and thus their goods don't seem totally overpriced over here.
It is also interesting to note, that Apple did not always do this. Personally, I've noticed this change in policy some time around the release of the iPhone 5. Not sure what rid them.
This is an issue that has nothing to do with poverty but with feeling totally screwed over. That's dangerous especially when you can't really get your message through in those countries thanks to lack of real presence and much less aggressive advertising.
Not sure where you get the super overcharging.. VAT is 19% BTW in Germany.
Anyway, the price for the Iphone 6 in Germany (16G) is
700 Euros post VAT price in Germany equals = 588 Actual pre VAT price
588 * 1.23 (exchange rate Euro to Dollar) = $723
Considering that that phone is in fact $650 in the US, that means there's 11% difference
in price with the phone in US dollars...
But, people there are NOT paid in dollars... That's a consideration...
BTW, The US dollar increased a lot in the last few months, so the cost to the user didn't change, but Apple has got less $US dollars out of it.
When setting prices, Apple must take into account how much money their target market can bear, the profit margins they seek and also changes in exchange rate for the whole year. In this case, a slight increase of the US dollar rate would mean the Iphone would be cheaper in Germany than in the US! So, it seams that they in fact may have set it too low...
In Canada, the price is $CAN 750, which translates to $660 US dollars (1.5% difference with the US price, mostly because the Canadian dollars went down significantly since september, was initially more like a 8% difference)
I believe it! I work at a bar in south Texas. I've already noticed a huge number of customers switching from Android to iPhone, not to mention several friends in my social media feeds doing the same. Apple fever is in full effect
Blame the EU for creating the Euro. If the Euro dies, prices will come down.
Blame the stuff you don't like? The Euro is over-valued if anything, without the Euro most European currencies would decline in fact.
I imagine that Apple would become far more affordable in some countries and far less affordable in others, because currencies would reflect the state of the market more accurately. At the moment, it's absurd that Greece has the same currency as Germany, to give an extreme example.
I imagine that Apple would become far more affordable in some countries and far less affordable in others, because currencies would reflect the state of the market more accurately. At the moment, it's absurd that Greece has the same currency as Germany, to give an extreme example.
I think it's bad that Windows Phone is dying. It's at least a genuine alternative to iOS and not a terrible ripoff of it. Also a stable platform that doesn't steal your personal info. That's the kind of thing Apple people should be encouraging.
The customer has spoken...no sale. ????
I agree that a credible competitor would keep things more lively, but there really is no competition, at least on par with Apple.
Comments
If somebody from Brazil were to ask on this forum: Hey, how come Apple iPhones are so damn expensive in my country?
Then this is what I would show them:
No wonder it costs an arm & leg. Those taxes and import fees are just insane!
The fault lies with your country, not with Apple.
Simple, not all poor people stay poor forever. Those that make it out of the muck will start making purchases. People are creatures of habit, and dislike change, so they're more apt to go with what they know.
So poor people who gain affluence still buy their clothes from WalMart, stick with their trusty Geo Metro car, and continue to drink liquor from plastic bottles? Good news for Android!
(well if that were true). What we are actually seeing is that people trade up from Android to buy iOS devices, which is why Apple is making all the money while Android licensees produce low end stuff that creates the "IDC winning" volumes supplying people who aren't selective.
Spain relationship with European Union is like Mexico with the States.
Yep. I lived there for a few years. I remember one guy from Columbia telling us "The rest of Europe is all so nice, Spain reminds me of the bad parts of Columbia".
Yes some indeed do. Jim Harbaugh is a multi-millionaire, and he still buys $8 khakis from Walmart, and JFK Jr used to drive a Hyundai Excel.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24410342/jim-harbaughs-wife-spills-secret-he-wears-8-pants-from-walmart?v=1&vc=1
So poor people who gain affluence still buy their clothes from WalMart, stick with their trusty Geo Metro car, and continue to drink liquor from plastic bottles? Good news for Android!
(well if that were true). What we are actually seeing is that people trade up from Android to buy iOS devices, which is why Apple is making all the money while Android licensees produce low end stuff that creates the "IDC winning" volumes supplying people who aren't selective.
No. People who suddenly gain affluence are more likely to wear basic clothing like jeans and a sweater, not buy clothes at Walmart. It's a matter of familiarity, not place or brand. Even when your budget expands to allow for luxuries, you are less likely to select clothing for appearance rather than utility if you've never used that as a basis for purchases. I'm not quite sure that cars or liquor are the same because it's not something that takes a different skill to appreciate or purchase. Expensive cars and expensive spirits are can be just as readily driven or drunk as the cheap stuff. You just look better doing it.
I think phones fall somewhere in the middle. You don't need to learn new skills to appreciate or purchase a different brand of phone, but you might still limit yourself based on what you're accustomed to using.
Apple has 4 of the top-selling individual models... but you're ignoring the sheer volume of other smartphones.
You need to look at the entire US smartphone market and observe how market share is calculated.
Roughly 4 out of 10 smartphones sold in the US are iPhones made by Apple.
The other 6 out of those 10 smartphones are made by someone else.
That's how Apple has the market share they have.
.
I also don't understand how we went from poor to affluent. That only happens to lottery winners, and athletes. There's a lot of middle ground in terms of financial status. One can graduate from Walmart to Macy's, but not to Barneys New York, or able to get a Coach bag, but not a Michael Kors one.
Look what has happened in Venezuela in 15 year going socialist and having the government take over and run everything. The place has gone into complete collapse! With the oil prices dropping, it's made things that much worse. They need $200 a barrel to pay their bills right now. You want government to run everything and try to make things fair! This is what you end up with.
Don't blame Apple for prices in Europe.
Blame the EU for creating the Euro. If the Euro dies, prices will come down.
I believe that in Spain, one finds that it rains mainly on the plain.
Originally Posted by Red Oak
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb
Wouldn't it be because Apple makes only those four models,
as opposed to dozens of other models, albeit all with smaller shares?
Or were you kidding?
Nope.. not kidding. I guess the answer is that model sales are HIGHLY fragmented... a.k.a : there is a long long list of models all of which have small % share
I think that's what I said, no?
I believe that in Spain, one finds that it rains mainly on the plain.
I believe that in Spain, the problem has traditionally been where the reins fall...
or the reigns, take your pick.
True, you can certainly make that analogy, it has been proven many times. As such this might certainly be the case for Spain.
However, Europe is a bit of a special case and Apple is not doing as good as it could over here. This is excluding the UK of course, because when it comes to these things the UK is more similar to the US rather than mainland Europe.
In most other European countries, Apple is only now slowly pushing for retail presence. Things are going slowly and in most countries you'd still need to travel hundreds of miles to get to an official Apple Store, if there is any. They're definitely moving into the right direction now.
Then you got countries, such as Germany, where most people view Apple with a lot of scepticism. This combined with the lack of wide spread retail presence makes for a lot of uninformed opinions.
Add to the mix that Apple is ridiculously overcharging in Europe when compared to US prices and you have a pretty good picture of why Apple is struggling in most of Europe. When you pay $749 for your unlocked iPhone, in Europe you pay the equivalent of around $1000 for the phone. That's quite steep. When you buy your MacBook Pro base model for $1499, in Europe you pay $2000 and so on. Obviously this gets more and more the higher the price. Similarly, when you get your contract iPhone for 200 bucks, in Europe you pay half of the US unlocked price for the same phone on contract. Given this, the Galaxy you can get for nothing starts to look quite interesting to people.
Sure, every country has different taxes and whatnot. Doing business in the US comes with less taxes than in some European countries, but the difference is not that huge, that I can tell from experience. More often than not, the base price in Euro is actually higher in Apple's Store than it is in USD, where it should be 20% less in Euro due to conversion rate alone.
So yes, I believe this is a huge mistake Apple is making here. In my opinion they could sell a lot more if prices were more or less in line with US prices. Also note that Apple is about the only one doing it this way. Almost all other manufacturers actually convert halfway appropriately and thus their goods don't seem totally overpriced over here.
It is also interesting to note, that Apple did not always do this. Personally, I've noticed this change in policy some time around the release of the iPhone 5. Not sure what rid them.
This is an issue that has nothing to do with poverty but with feeling totally screwed over. That's dangerous especially when you can't really get your message through in those countries thanks to lack of real presence and much less aggressive advertising.
Not sure where you get the super overcharging.. VAT is 19% BTW in Germany.
Anyway, the price for the Iphone 6 in Germany (16G) is
700 Euros post VAT price in Germany equals = 588 Actual pre VAT price
588 * 1.23 (exchange rate Euro to Dollar) = $723
Considering that that phone is in fact $650 in the US, that means there's 11% difference
in price with the phone in US dollars...
But, people there are NOT paid in dollars... That's a consideration...
BTW, The US dollar increased a lot in the last few months, so the cost to the user didn't change, but Apple has got less $US dollars out of it.
When setting prices, Apple must take into account how much money their target market can bear, the profit margins they seek and also changes in exchange rate for the whole year. In this case, a slight increase of the US dollar rate would mean the Iphone would be cheaper in Germany than in the US! So, it seams that they in fact may have set it too low...
In Canada, the price is $CAN 750, which translates to $660 US dollars (1.5% difference with the US price, mostly because the Canadian dollars went down significantly since september, was initially more like a 8% difference)
Don't blame Apple for prices in Europe.
Blame the EU for creating the Euro. If the Euro dies, prices will come down.
Blame the stuff you don't like? The Euro is over-valued if anything, without the Euro most European currencies would decline in fact.
I imagine that Apple would become far more affordable in some countries and far less affordable in others, because currencies would reflect the state of the market more accurately. At the moment, it's absurd that Greece has the same currency as Germany, to give an extreme example.
I imagine that Apple would become far more affordable in some countries and far less affordable in others, because currencies would reflect the state of the market more accurately. At the moment, it's absurd that Greece has the same currency as Germany, to give an extreme example.
Yes, a disasterous experiment. The Euro.
The customer has spoken...no sale. ????
I agree that a credible competitor would keep things more lively, but there really is no competition, at least on par with Apple.
The little "/s" indicates "sarcasm".
It's equal to ios in some markets ( well iPhones)