not sure how they 'beat' apple to this. they did it for years and it was dreadful (my wife's toshiba lasted nearly one month before being defunct years ago).
i hope pc vendors got their act together and made a decent scanner- but i doubt it. there is a reason why apple has not, even when apple drags their feet there is usually a reason (think 3g chips and then LTE chips destroying batteries before they were improved)
There is a compelling reason to have a fingerprint sensor on a mouse, a trackpad and a keyboard and that is ease of password authentication when accessing web services of any kind where a username and password is required. For me that is many times per day.
Yeah, you expect Apple to put the TouchID in these $60ish devices which are easily get stolen? LOL.
I don't see much usefulness of TouchID on a computer beside logon credentials which most don't really care since their hands would be on the keyboard/mouse/trackpad to use the computer to begin with unless one only uses the computer for browsing and get no need to use the keyboard.
..when apple drags their feet there is usually a reason (think 3g chips and then LTE chips destroying batteries before they were improved)
Perhaps you are right. Apple keeps saying that the Apple watch "is the most personal device that Apple has created to date". It supports Apple Pay and it knows when you have taken the watch off (i.e. no longer authenticated). I think this can change the game in more ways that people realize. What is better than a finger print reader that is used to authenticate you throughout the work day? no finger print reader at all.
If the section dedicated to the fingerprint reader does not also function for finger tracking it's not really integrated. It's the functional equivalent of locating two components adjacent to one another, drawing a line around them both and calling them one thing.
IBM (then Lenovo) Thinkpads had fingerprint sensor as options for years; nothing especially new here; in a PC you have room to had new devices. Main point is what the software/OS does with it.
I have an idea for TouchID on MBp, MBA.. They should put "iPhone" like TouchID button on power button or somewhere rather than on trackpad. So that user can touch on power button or somewhere else and have it detect the fingerprint and login and also when you need to use for any login, anything that required password, also ApplePay (without NFC) to make order online via MBA and/or MBp. That trackpad company is an idiot for put that sensor on trackpad because it's in user's way and I'm sure it's DOA or perhaps many customer isn't happy when it accident detect finger when they use trackpad as mouse.... Yes I'm sure it'll become DOA once PC maker release and hold their breath....
Please pardon my English grammar. I'm suck with English grammar and English is not my primary language, American Sign Language is.
On the MacBooks the trackpad is a piece of glass. This could easily be a piece of sapphire (or still remain glass) and the TouchID mechanism could be behind the whole thing. If the computer asks for your fingerprint you do nothing more than touch it anywhere on the trackpad like you do on the iPhone home button. Unobtrusive and totally practical. If Apple puts it anywhere, I believe this is how they will do it.
Did I forget to mention, this 12 inch MacBook Air that I've been predicting will be Apples first Touch ID Mac, basically same trackpad but it scans fingerprints.
I agree this is exactly how they will do it. Glass trackpad with TouchID sensor behind it. Visually you will never know the difference. They could even make it require more than one finger at a time. Rest your fingers anywhere on the trackpad and you're in.
It already is. It will also replace the desktop.
Next years A9 and 12 inch iPad will make this possible.
All Apple has to do is remove the artificial constraints on the OS and software.
I do believe Apple will add Touch ID to the MacBooks. I think the 12" retina MacBook Air will be the first one. I also believe that Touch ID will be used both for login in and for Apple Pay. Just my two cents.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">..when apple drags their feet there is usually a reason (think 3g chips and then LTE chips destroying batteries before they were improved)</span>
Perhaps you are right. Apple keeps saying that the Apple watch "is the most personal device that Apple has created to date". It supports Apple Pay and it knows when you have taken the watch off (i.e. no longer authenticated). I think this can change the game in more ways that people realize. What is better than a finger print reader that is used to authenticate you throughout the work day? no finger print reader at all.
Sure it is. An iOS device has a secure element in the CPU, where the fingerprint information is stored and the compare is performed. So even if the device is jailbroken, you still cannot hack the authentication process. (Caveat: unless the user has previously hacked the OS to replace the authentication process itself with one of their own making. See below.*) A MacOS device currently does not run with an Apple designed processor with secure element, so Apple would have to store the fingerprint info on the disk somewhere... i.e. potentially hackable. So the MacOS device is less secure in this respect.
*A user of a jailbroken iPhone could possibly hack the OS such that it intercepts fingerprints during the fingerprint registration step, stores them wherever they want, and replaces the authentication algorithm with their own. Such a user would have created a hackable situation in order to gain some flexibility in the fingerprint authentication process (to store more fingerprints, for example, or have multiple user accounts, each tied to different sets of fingerprints).
It's complicated. But Apple atores Apple Pay in the NFC chip. They store Touch ID info in the ARM chip. This isn't a situation that can't be overcome easily. Intel also has a secure enclave within many x86 chips, and has for ten years. It's mostly used for secure boot, and OS encryption. There's no reason why Apple couldn't use that instead of the one in the ARM chip. I don't know if the chip Apple uses for all of their machines includes the enclave, but I imagine they do.
It's why my iPad Air 2 has the NFC chip as well, even though it doesn't have the antenna. It's used for Apple Pay online. Many apps now support it, including Amazon, which, for some reason, isn't listed yet on Apple's site as supporting it.
Sure it is. An iOS device has a secure element in the CPU, where the fingerprint information is stored and the compare is performed. So even if the device is jailbroken, you still cannot hack the authentication process. (Caveat: unless the user has previously hacked the OS to replace the authentication process itself with one of their own making. See below.*) A MacOS device currently does not run with an Apple designed processor with secure element, so Apple would have to store the fingerprint info on the disk somewhere... i.e. potentially hackable. So the MacOS device is less secure in this respect.
*A user of a jailbroken iPhone could possibly hack the OS such that it intercepts fingerprints during the fingerprint registration step, stores them wherever they want, and replaces the authentication algorithm with their own. Such a user would have created a hackable situation in order to gain some flexibility in the fingerprint authentication process (to store more fingerprints, for example, or have multiple user accounts, each tied to different sets of fingerprints).
It's complicated. But Apple atores Apple Pay in the NFC chip. They store Touch ID info in the ARM chip. This isn't a situation that can't be overcome easily. Intel also has a secure enclave within many x86 chips, and has for ten years. It's mostly used for secure boot, and OS encryption. There's no reason why Apple couldn't use that instead of the one in the ARM chip. I don't know if the chip Apple uses for all of their machines includes the enclave, but I imagine they do.
It's why my iPad Air 2 has the NFC chip as well, even though it doesn't have the antenna. It's used for Apple Pay online. Many apps now support it, including Amazon, which, for some reason, isn't listed yet on Apple's site as supporting it.
What, exactly, does "Apple atores Apple Pay in the NFC chip" mean?
PDAs from 10 years ago also beat Apple to the punch with fingerprint ID scanners. Look how well that worked out for them and how well it has worked out for Apple.
Yes, that was years ago. Several problems with those.
Plastic was used to cover the sensor, and as it became glazed over with use, reading became impossible.
The sensor had a low resolution, so it didn't always read the fingerprint, and would read the wrong fingerprint. Reliability, even when new, rarely exceeded 98%, not nearly good enough.
The software was more primitive, and had a difficult time in discriminating between various prints, particularly with the low Rez sensor.
The old sensors would break down after a few months, generally.
But it's years later, and technology has improved. Apple was the first to put a great deal of effort into making this work correctly. By buying a company already making the most sophisticated sensors and software, Apple had a good starting point. By overcoming previous problems, such as the damage to the cover of the sensor, they eliminated that major point of failure. Stronger processing, more sophisticated software, high Rez sensors (over 500ppi) have led to much better accuracy and reliability. Storing info in hardware, with hardware encryption, and using innovative techniques to store, and use, that info, has contributed to much greater security. Hardware encryption is pretty much unbreakable.
But now that Apple has led the way here, others see what they've done, and can follow. We can't go by Samsung and HTC's versions, because both companies rushed theirs out to compete, and neither work well. Both require swipes, and those are inherently less accurate and reliable. HTC even put theirs on the back, right below the camera lens, where you swipe over the lens, possibly getting it dirty. And you need to turn the phone on first, the regular way.
But Synoptics has a different idea, and it might work. It's true that their trackpads can be quirky. But they did produce Apple's iPod wheels for many years, and they worked very well. It's too soon to know just how well this will work. But I'm willing to wait until it's in a real product before I praise or condemn it.
Isn't the point of this story that they are rushing out trackpads with fingerprint sensors to beat Apple? Just sounds like more rushing that will lead to user issues. Apple can take their time on this one.
Comments
No, the iPad is the new notebook.
Not by a long shot.
it is for many.
not sure how they 'beat' apple to this. they did it for years and it was dreadful (my wife's toshiba lasted nearly one month before being defunct years ago).
i hope pc vendors got their act together and made a decent scanner- but i doubt it. there is a reason why apple has not, even when apple drags their feet there is usually a reason (think 3g chips and then LTE chips destroying batteries before they were improved)
Yeah - but they wont work.... !!
There is a compelling reason to have a fingerprint sensor on a mouse, a trackpad and a keyboard and that is ease of password authentication when accessing web services of any kind where a username and password is required. For me that is many times per day.
Yeah, you expect Apple to put the TouchID in these $60ish devices which are easily get stolen? LOL.
I don't see much usefulness of TouchID on a computer beside logon credentials which most don't really care since their hands would be on the keyboard/mouse/trackpad to use the computer to begin with unless one only uses the computer for browsing and get no need to use the keyboard.
..when apple drags their feet there is usually a reason (think 3g chips and then LTE chips destroying batteries before they were improved)
Perhaps you are right. Apple keeps saying that the Apple watch "is the most personal device that Apple has created to date". It supports Apple Pay and it knows when you have taken the watch off (i.e. no longer authenticated). I think this can change the game in more ways that people realize. What is better than a finger print reader that is used to authenticate you throughout the work day? no finger print reader at all.
If the section dedicated to the fingerprint reader does not also function for finger tracking it's not really integrated. It's the functional equivalent of locating two components adjacent to one another, drawing a line around them both and calling them one thing.
I'm sure they'll get right on it when Intel gets around to adding Secure Enclave to their Core processors, or Apple moves the Mac line to the A8X.
No need. PC laptops (particularly business laptops like Thinkpads) have long used Trusted Platform Modules for storing various cryptographic keys.
I have an idea for TouchID on MBp, MBA.. They should put "iPhone" like TouchID button on power button or somewhere rather than on trackpad. So that user can touch on power button or somewhere else and have it detect the fingerprint and login and also when you need to use for any login, anything that required password, also ApplePay (without NFC) to make order online via MBA and/or MBp. That trackpad company is an idiot for put that sensor on trackpad because it's in user's way and I'm sure it's DOA or perhaps many customer isn't happy when it accident detect finger when they use trackpad as mouse.... Yes I'm sure it'll become DOA once PC maker release and hold their breath....
Please pardon my English grammar. I'm suck with English grammar and English is not my primary language, American Sign Language is.
On the MacBooks the trackpad is a piece of glass. This could easily be a piece of sapphire (or still remain glass) and the TouchID mechanism could be behind the whole thing. If the computer asks for your fingerprint you do nothing more than touch it anywhere on the trackpad like you do on the iPhone home button. Unobtrusive and totally practical. If Apple puts it anywhere, I believe this is how they will do it.
Did I forget to mention, this 12 inch MacBook Air that I've been predicting will be Apples first Touch ID Mac, basically same trackpad but it scans fingerprints.
I agree this is exactly how they will do it. Glass trackpad with TouchID sensor behind it. Visually you will never know the difference. They could even make it require more than one finger at a time. Rest your fingers anywhere on the trackpad and you're in.
It already is. It will also replace the desktop.
Next years A9 and 12 inch iPad will make this possible.
All Apple has to do is remove the artificial constraints on the OS and software.
Bingo!
Secure, Private, Simple, Fast ... Convenient!
Another way is to have touch id on an iOs device unlock a number of selected macs, simple and effective.
It's complicated. But Apple atores Apple Pay in the NFC chip. They store Touch ID info in the ARM chip. This isn't a situation that can't be overcome easily. Intel also has a secure enclave within many x86 chips, and has for ten years. It's mostly used for secure boot, and OS encryption. There's no reason why Apple couldn't use that instead of the one in the ARM chip. I don't know if the chip Apple uses for all of their machines includes the enclave, but I imagine they do.
It's why my iPad Air 2 has the NFC chip as well, even though it doesn't have the antenna. It's used for Apple Pay online. Many apps now support it, including Amazon, which, for some reason, isn't listed yet on Apple's site as supporting it.
What, exactly, does "Apple atores Apple Pay in the NFC chip" mean?
Do you have a link, or can you elaborate?
Yes, that was years ago. Several problems with those.
Plastic was used to cover the sensor, and as it became glazed over with use, reading became impossible.
The sensor had a low resolution, so it didn't always read the fingerprint, and would read the wrong fingerprint. Reliability, even when new, rarely exceeded 98%, not nearly good enough.
The software was more primitive, and had a difficult time in discriminating between various prints, particularly with the low Rez sensor.
The old sensors would break down after a few months, generally.
But it's years later, and technology has improved. Apple was the first to put a great deal of effort into making this work correctly. By buying a company already making the most sophisticated sensors and software, Apple had a good starting point. By overcoming previous problems, such as the damage to the cover of the sensor, they eliminated that major point of failure. Stronger processing, more sophisticated software, high Rez sensors (over 500ppi) have led to much better accuracy and reliability. Storing info in hardware, with hardware encryption, and using innovative techniques to store, and use, that info, has contributed to much greater security. Hardware encryption is pretty much unbreakable.
But now that Apple has led the way here, others see what they've done, and can follow. We can't go by Samsung and HTC's versions, because both companies rushed theirs out to compete, and neither work well. Both require swipes, and those are inherently less accurate and reliable. HTC even put theirs on the back, right below the camera lens, where you swipe over the lens, possibly getting it dirty. And you need to turn the phone on first, the regular way.
But Synoptics has a different idea, and it might work. It's true that their trackpads can be quirky. But they did produce Apple's iPod wheels for many years, and they worked very well. It's too soon to know just how well this will work. But I'm willing to wait until it's in a real product before I praise or condemn it.
Isn't the point of this story that they are rushing out trackpads with fingerprint sensors to beat Apple? Just sounds like more rushing that will lead to user issues. Apple can take their time on this one.