PDAs from 10 years ago also beat Apple to the punch with fingerprint ID scanners. Look how well that worked out for them and how well it has worked out for Apple.
I tried looking up the BOM costs for a new iPhone or iPad, so I could extrapolate the cost of TouchID ... No Luck.
But let's explore the idea of a [B][I] dedicated TouchID component [/I][/B] that could be included in any device from an iPhone, to a Mac, to a Display (or TV) -- and even to [B][I] [COLOR=blue]dumb devices[/COLOR] such as a Mouse, Trackpad, TV Remote ... or even a inexpensive [free?] TouchID device like a plastic credit card.[/I][/B]
Of course, TouchID [B][I] setup [/I][/B] would require a computer, display, iPad, iPhone, etc.
But TouchID [B][I] operation [/I] [/B]need not require these expensive components.
Supposedly, the Apple Watch will use the TouchID available on the iPhone 6 in your pocket, pack or purse [punt, pass kick? ]. Once authorized, the Apple Watch will be able to execute Apple Pay transactions as long as: [LIST] [*] it is not removed from your wrist [*] it remains in contact (BLE?) with the iPhone [*] [/LIST]
On the Apple Watch, a successful [or unsuccessful] ApplePay transaction could provide feedback with a display indication and/or haptic touch.
The same logic could apply to the [B][I] [COLOR=blue]dumb devices[/COLOR] [/B][/I] mentioned above -- once authorized with a nearby iPhone 6 it remains authorized for ApplePay and TouchID approval as long as it maintains contact.
Or, Apple could take it a step further and implement a stand-alone TouchID device with:
[LIST] [*] TouchID Sensors [*] feedback haptic and/or LED [*] NFC, BLE radios [*] Minimal A8Z APU with Secure Enclave [*] long lasting battery [*] [/LIST]
For existing [B][I] [COLOR=blue]dumb devices[/COLOR] [/B][/I] such as a mouse or trackpad that already have feedback, radios and batteries -- a [B][I] dedicated TouchID component [/I][/B] would need only the TouchID Sensors and theMinimal A8Z APU with Secure Enclave.
IDK, but I suspect that Apple could make a [B][I] dedicated TouchID component [/I][/B] that costs < $5 in volume at acceptable Apple margins ... And include it in every device that Apple makes!
"Once a user scans their fingerprint when prompted for a password, SecurePad initiates a cryptographically secure challenge and response with an online service provider."
So you're locked out if you have no internet access? Can you enter a password like one normally would do? Which doesn't seem like a big deal since you tend not to turn on and off a laptop so frequently as a phone.
Once a user scans their fingerprint when prompted for a password, SecurePad initiates a cryptographically secure challenge and response with an online service provider.
Online service provider? Sorry, that's DOA for me -- it needs to use a local, secure-enclave for authentication like Apple's solution to be useful in all situations (online or not).
The authentication is just encryption key pairs. I described an example of how this would work here:
"Instead of creating passwords, end users complete a fingerprint authentication on the laptop to register a public/private key pair, unique to the laptop, the user account, and the online service. To login, the end user performs the same fingerprint authentication, initiating a cryptographically secure challenge/response with the online service provider. As a result, the solution does away with storing password databases in the cloud, thwarting the efforts of thieves to steal and exploit consumer passwords."
Encryption key pairs work using a public and private key. Anyone can know the public key and it's used to encrypt messages. Only the private key can decode them. When you setup a service like a Facebook account, it would send them a public key to store and you keep both the public and private key. To login, they send a random message to you encrypted with the public key. Only your private key can decode it and send it back to verify that you are the person who setup the key pair. Because it's random, interception is pointless and if someone gets the public key, it doesn't matter because it can't be used to decode the messages.
The big advantage Apple has here again is the ecosystem because they can transparently sync private keys between devices and they'll work with the iPhone and iPad. Not only that, if the keys haven't been synced, they can add a feature to Back to my Mac to get the login keys. There would be backup options for the service provider too though like sending an email to setup a new device. You can have as many key pairs as you want.
Putting touch id in the laptops is easy for Apple - they can go back to the circular power button but they'll want to put them into their desktops too. It would be easier to put it into the Magic Mouse and Trackpad for desktops. They can use the laptop trackpad too and it won't look as bad as Synaptics. I expect they'll wait until they can add a special chip to the Macs to store fingerprint data so it can't be accessed by OS attacks.
Apple are the Gold Standard of computers for a reason. And a fingerprint sensor isn't going to change anything when any third-rate tech outfit can slam together a box and shove some back-asswards version of Windows on it.
[QUOTE][SIZE=4][U]Alibaba's Alipay Rolls out Update to Mobile App Accepting Apple's Touch ID for making Mobile Payments[/U][/SIZE]
A new Chinese report today confirms that Alipay, the e-payment arm of China's e-commerce giant Alibaba Group Holding Ltd, rolled out on Tuesday the latest version of its mobile application, which allows iPhone users to make mobile payments using Touch ID instead of passwords.
Analysts said that the move is not only a win-win cooperation for both Alipay and iPhone, but also an indicator of a potential alliance between Alipay, China's largest e-payment solution provider, and Apple Pay, the mobile payment service of tech giant Apple Inc.
According to a release issued by Alipay, users of iPhone 5S, iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus will be able to activate their fingerprint payment function as soon as they upgrade the Alipay Wallet app to version 8.4.
Biometric technology such as fingerprint or retina recognition is regarded as a more secure and convenient method of identity authentication. "Compared with traditional codes, fingerprints are one of a kind and are not easy to copy. It also effectively improves the security of transactions and reduces the risk of password leaks," the statement said.
Alipay, which has [B][I][COLOR=blue]more than 300 million users in China,[/COLOR][/I][/B] said it is working on other biometric technologies, which can make it possible for people to confirm payments for a wide variety of goods and services by winking or simply by showing their faces in the near future.
But even if he was 100% correct, that just for the past, not for the future. While it's true that Samsung rushes things out the door just to say they have it, that doesn't mean that manufacturers can't catch up, and even surpass what Apple does. I've complained for years about Apple's vacellation. They come out with a leading technology, and then do little with it for years, giving competitors time to catch up.
Previous touch sensors were poor for several reasons. But that doesn't mean they will alwsys remain poor.
I'm disappointed, as are others, that Apple hasn't already put Touch ID on their laptops, and even on their iMacs. Why not, they could, if they wanted to. I'd much rather touch my computer than need to type in a long password (because short passwords are totally useless).
On my ipad, and the phones that have it, even the Amazon app uses Touch ID. That wou,d be just great for my Mac as well. No more passwords stored in the cloud, or on web sites, and no card info either. We know Apple Pay is a success, they should hurry to extend it.
I'm sure they'll get right on it when Intel gets around to adding Secure Enclave to their Core processors, or Apple moves the Mac line to the A8X.
So they’ve succeeded in becoming the biggest tech company in spite of their stupidity?
I agree, it's unfair to expect from Apple to make the right choices every time.
If they did they had an even bigger problem what to do with the surplus; you can burn only that much in a day.
Apple is incredibly good on hardware. But their software has to catch up lately, rather buggy these days ...
hmm, so when you say buggy, do you mean as in the level of bugginess seen in Windows? because ive been an enterprise dev working on the Windows platform for 15 years, and ive never experience the amount of hotfixes and service packs for Apple offerings as i have for Windows. that shit is buggy. i read about the occasional Apple bugs, but they havent made themselves real to me. they havent cost me nearly as much time in productivity or value as Windows bug fixes have.
hmm, so when you say buggy, do you mean as in the level of bugginess seen in Windows? because ive been an enterprise dev working on the Windows platform for 15 years, and ive never experience the amount of hotfixes and service packs for Apple offerings as i have for Windows. that shit is buggy. i read about the occasional Apple bugs, but they havent made themselves real to me. they havent cost me nearly as much time in productivity or value as Windows bug fixes have.
I'm still very happy with OS X, and use Windows only occasionally, so can't comment on this. But there is a level of unusual problems I haven't seen before. And Apple seems to have some trouble patching all these issues in time. Also, for example, the new iWork is a mess, in particular Pages, as you can see in many support forums. Still, I'm in general happy with Pages, and as a long time user won't change quickly. But there is quite something software wise that needs fixes. Well, if I would compare it to some of my (earlier) Windows experiences: currently I use OS X with a couple of work around to avoid bugs as I did in my Windows days (although not that many) – and that is something new for me on OS X.
Did I forget to mention, this 12 inch MacBook Air that I've been predicting will be Apples first Touch ID Mac, basically same trackpad but it scans fingerprints.
...And as an investor, with a fair amount of stock, it do worry about it. It's a fair thing to worry about. We've all seen major technology companies who were thought to be unassailable, being brought to their knees because competitors have passed them....
Sounds like you feel strongly about their decision not to spending their investor's money on acquiring Nuance and Synaptic.
Perhaps you should let your money do the talking and get out while the stock continues make huge gains.
Clearly Synaptics (SYNA) has been a much better investment than AAPL over the last 6 month when it went from $95/share to $60/share. /s
yeah.. Apple really blew it on this one. Good time to get out of APPL and throw it all into SYNA while it's cheap.
Does anyone really think placing finger print reader on a laptop is going to be the lone compelling value proposition to get people switch from Windows to Mac to justify spending investor's money on acquisition of Synaptics? Somehow I doubt it. A tie in from mobile phone to Laptop (like iOS/OSX Hand-off ) sure...but finger print scanner? Sorry, I don't see this to be the straw that broke the camel's back and thus no justification for acquisition of Synaptics.
There is a reason that a user interface designed for large form factor device doesn't work well for a small hand held device. Similarly, a finger print reader is not a strong enough need for large form factor device as it is for small one. The amount of times a day the user needs to type in their password and how easier it is to type in their password on laptop vs phone is quite different. Similarly, theft rate for laptops is quite different than phones. In short, what's required and good for one platform, doesn't always translate to being equally required and optimal for the other.
Comments
Maybe Synaptics and the PC world are readying themselves to include trackpads on "smart" devices. HA HA HA!!!
PDAs from 10 years ago also beat Apple to the punch with fingerprint ID scanners. Look how well that worked out for them and how well it has worked out for Apple.
I tried looking up the BOM costs for a new iPhone or iPad, so I could extrapolate the cost of TouchID ... No Luck.
But let's explore the idea of a [B][I] dedicated TouchID component [/I][/B] that could be included in any device from an iPhone, to a Mac, to a Display (or TV) -- and even to [B][I] [COLOR=blue]dumb devices[/COLOR] such as a Mouse, Trackpad, TV Remote ... or even a inexpensive [free?] TouchID device like a plastic credit card.[/I][/B]
Of course, TouchID [B][I] setup [/I][/B] would require a computer, display, iPad, iPhone, etc.
But TouchID [B][I] operation [/I] [/B]need not require these expensive components.
Supposedly, the Apple Watch will use the TouchID available on the iPhone 6 in your pocket, pack or purse [punt, pass kick?
[LIST]
[*] it is not removed from your wrist
[*] it remains in contact (BLE?) with the iPhone
[*]
[/LIST]
On the Apple Watch, a successful [or unsuccessful] ApplePay transaction could provide feedback with a display indication and/or haptic touch.
The same logic could apply to the [B][I] [COLOR=blue]dumb devices[/COLOR] [/B][/I] mentioned above -- once authorized with a nearby iPhone 6 it remains authorized for ApplePay and TouchID approval as long as it maintains contact.
Or, Apple could take it a step further and implement a stand-alone TouchID device with:
[LIST]
[*] TouchID Sensors
[*] feedback haptic and/or LED
[*] NFC, BLE radios
[*] Minimal A8Z APU with Secure Enclave
[*] long lasting battery
[*]
[/LIST]
For existing [B][I] [COLOR=blue]dumb devices[/COLOR] [/B][/I] such as a mouse or trackpad that already have feedback, radios and batteries -- a [B][I] dedicated TouchID component [/I][/B] would need only the TouchID Sensors and theMinimal A8Z APU with Secure Enclave.
IDK, but I suspect that Apple could make a [B][I] dedicated TouchID component [/I][/B] that costs < $5 in volume at acceptable Apple margins ... And include it in every device that Apple makes!
"Once a user scans their fingerprint when prompted for a password, SecurePad initiates a cryptographically secure challenge and response with an online service provider."
So you're locked out if you have no internet access? Can you enter a password like one normally would do? Which doesn't seem like a big deal since you tend not to turn on and off a laptop so frequently as a phone.
The authentication is just encryption key pairs. I described an example of how this would work here:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/155482/home-button-fingerprint-sensor-in-iphone-5s-would-give-apple-a-new-leg-up-on-the-competition/80#post_2261085
http://www.synaptics.com/en/press-releases/securepad-release.php
"Instead of creating passwords, end users complete a fingerprint authentication on the laptop to register a public/private key pair, unique to the laptop, the user account, and the online service. To login, the end user performs the same fingerprint authentication, initiating a cryptographically secure challenge/response with the online service provider. As a result, the solution does away with storing password databases in the cloud, thwarting the efforts of thieves to steal and exploit consumer passwords."
Encryption key pairs work using a public and private key. Anyone can know the public key and it's used to encrypt messages. Only the private key can decode them. When you setup a service like a Facebook account, it would send them a public key to store and you keep both the public and private key. To login, they send a random message to you encrypted with the public key. Only your private key can decode it and send it back to verify that you are the person who setup the key pair. Because it's random, interception is pointless and if someone gets the public key, it doesn't matter because it can't be used to decode the messages.
The big advantage Apple has here again is the ecosystem because they can transparently sync private keys between devices and they'll work with the iPhone and iPad. Not only that, if the keys haven't been synced, they can add a feature to Back to my Mac to get the login keys. There would be backup options for the service provider too though like sending an email to setup a new device. You can have as many key pairs as you want.
Putting touch id in the laptops is easy for Apple - they can go back to the circular power button but they'll want to put them into their desktops too. It would be easier to put it into the Magic Mouse and Trackpad for desktops. They can use the laptop trackpad too and it won't look as bad as Synaptics. I expect they'll wait until they can add a special chip to the Macs to store fingerprint data so it can't be accessed by OS attacks.
Offline logins won't use the internet at all. They'd use a fingerprint vector the same way they'd use a password.
And?
It's still a PC not running OS X.
Apple are the Gold Standard of computers for a reason. And a fingerprint sensor isn't going to change anything when any third-rate tech outfit can slam together a box and shove some back-asswards version of Windows on it.
A new Chinese report today confirms that Alipay, the e-payment arm of China's e-commerce giant Alibaba Group Holding Ltd, rolled out on Tuesday the latest version of its mobile application, which allows iPhone users to make mobile payments using Touch ID instead of passwords.
Analysts said that the move is not only a win-win cooperation for both Alipay and iPhone, but also an indicator of a potential alliance between Alipay, China's largest e-payment solution provider, and Apple Pay, the mobile payment service of tech giant Apple Inc.
According to a release issued by Alipay, users of iPhone 5S, iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus will be able to activate their fingerprint payment function as soon as they upgrade the Alipay Wallet app to version 8.4.
Biometric technology such as fingerprint or retina recognition is regarded as a more secure and convenient method of identity authentication. "Compared with traditional codes, fingerprints are one of a kind and are not easy to copy. It also effectively improves the security of transactions and reduces the risk of password leaks," the statement said.
Alipay, which has [B][I][COLOR=blue]more than 300 million users in China,[/COLOR][/I][/B] said it is working on other biometric technologies, which can make it possible for people to confirm payments for a wide variety of goods and services by winking or simply by showing their faces in the near future.
[/QUOTE]
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/12/alibabas-alipay-rolls-out-update-to-mobile-app-accepting-apples-touch-id-for-making-mobile-payments.html
I'm sure they'll get right on it when Intel gets around to adding Secure Enclave to their Core processors, or Apple moves the Mac line to the A8X.
Isn't it more likely Apple will follow the ? pay concept: wave your iPhone or ? watch in front of your screen?
I'd like to see that over using Touch ID but I'd rather it be Bluetooth then NFC.
EDIT: Pipped by Soli
I agree, it's unfair to expect from Apple to make the right choices every time.
If they did they had an even bigger problem what to do with the surplus; you can burn only that much in a day.
Intel is a lost cause, the A9 is a much better bet.
Apple is incredibly good on hardware. But their software has to catch up lately, rather buggy these days ...
hmm, so when you say buggy, do you mean as in the level of bugginess seen in Windows? because ive been an enterprise dev working on the Windows platform for 15 years, and ive never experience the amount of hotfixes and service packs for Apple offerings as i have for Windows. that shit is buggy. i read about the occasional Apple bugs, but they havent made themselves real to me. they havent cost me nearly as much time in productivity or value as Windows bug fixes have.
hmm, so when you say buggy, do you mean as in the level of bugginess seen in Windows? because ive been an enterprise dev working on the Windows platform for 15 years, and ive never experience the amount of hotfixes and service packs for Apple offerings as i have for Windows. that shit is buggy. i read about the occasional Apple bugs, but they havent made themselves real to me. they havent cost me nearly as much time in productivity or value as Windows bug fixes have.
I'm still very happy with OS X, and use Windows only occasionally, so can't comment on this. But there is a level of unusual problems I haven't seen before. And Apple seems to have some trouble patching all these issues in time. Also, for example, the new iWork is a mess, in particular Pages, as you can see in many support forums. Still, I'm in general happy with Pages, and as a long time user won't change quickly. But there is quite something software wise that needs fixes. Well, if I would compare it to some of my (earlier) Windows experiences: currently I use OS X with a couple of work around to avoid bugs as I did in my Windows days (although not that many) – and that is something new for me on OS X.
thats downright retarded! fingerprint has been out on the market for more than 10 years, it was never a must have feature.
No, the iPad is the new notebook.
Not by a long shot.
Sounds like you feel strongly about their decision not to spending their investor's money on acquiring Nuance and Synaptic.
Perhaps you should let your money do the talking and get out while the stock continues make huge gains.
Clearly Synaptics (SYNA) has been a much better investment than AAPL over the last 6 month when it went from $95/share to $60/share. /s
yeah.. Apple really blew it on this one. Good time to get out of APPL and throw it all into SYNA while it's cheap.
Does anyone really think placing finger print reader on a laptop is going to be the lone compelling value proposition to get people switch from Windows to Mac to justify spending investor's money on acquisition of Synaptics? Somehow I doubt it. A tie in from mobile phone to Laptop (like iOS/OSX Hand-off ) sure...but finger print scanner? Sorry, I don't see this to be the straw that broke the camel's back and thus no justification for acquisition of Synaptics.
There is a reason that a user interface designed for large form factor device doesn't work well for a small hand held device. Similarly, a finger print reader is not a strong enough need for large form factor device as it is for small one. The amount of times a day the user needs to type in their password and how easier it is to type in their password on laptop vs phone is quite different. Similarly, theft rate for laptops is quite different than phones. In short, what's required and good for one platform, doesn't always translate to being equally required and optimal for the other.