Contract workers invade Apple campus demanding better pay and working conditions

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 94
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post





    Apple's message to the protestors should've been: You are on private property. Get out!



    A natural and legally justified response for a property owner, but a public relations disaster. I've been there. The demonstrators are looking for trouble and all the publicity that comes with it. They may be trespassing, but unless they clearly instigate an unprovoked, imminent threat to property or people that can be supported with video evidence usable in court, you just keep your cool and let them run out of gas.

     

    Maybe next time this gang can take a hike up the road to Google headquarters. Let Google bring out the clubs and truncheons.

  • Reply 42 of 94
    kibitzer wrote: »

    A natural and legally justified response for a property owner, but a public relations disaster. I've been there. The demonstrators are looking for trouble and all the publicity that comes with it. They may be trespassing, but unless they clearly instigate an unprovoked, imminent threat to property or people that can be supported with video evidence usable in court, you just keep your cool and let them run out of gas.

    I hate to be the one to say it, but Steve would've blown a gasket.
  • Reply 43 of 94
    jonljonl Posts: 210member

    And that's why you don't sit down with Jesse.

  • Reply 44 of 94
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post





    I hate to be the one to say it, but Steve would've blown a gasket.



    Maybe, maybe not. I'm inclined to give Steve more credit. He could have just as easily shrugged it off and told Jesse that Apple's dog isn't in this fight.

     

    But you raise an interesting question, because all kinds of interests have tried to drag Apple into different issues, and the company has had a pretty good track record of where it has chosen to pick its fights. It also would be interesting to hear what Laurene or Tim Cook or some of Steve's long-time friends would speculate about his reaction, though that's not going to happen obviously.

  • Reply 45 of 94
    kibitzer wrote: »

    Maybe, maybe not. I'm inclined to give Steve more credit. He could have just as easily shrugged it off and told Jesse that Apple's dog isn't in this fight.

    But you raise an interesting question, because all kinds of interests have tried to drag Apple into different issues, and the company has had a pretty good track record of where it has chosen to pick its fights. It also would be interesting to hear what Laurene or Tim Cook or some of Steve's long-time friends would speculate about his reaction, though that's not going to happen obviously.

    My impression had been that Jobs jealously guarded Apple's interests as fervently as his own child at times. He allowed no interference or threats.
  • Reply 46 of 94
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,114member

    Here's another thought. When Tim met with Jesse, what if Tim in his inimitable and deft way put Jesse in his place. Then Jesse - belatedly realizing that he'd been rolled - petulantly decided to tramp through the flower bed in Tim's front yard. The heck with pay inequality. It could be nothing more than Jesse using a bogus issue to assert his ego and his demagoguery.

  • Reply 47 of 94

    That's Jesse Jackson for you. Never misses an opportunity to get on camera, I mean advance racial equality....

  • Reply 48 of 94
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post
     

    That's Jesse Jackson for you. Never misses an opportunity to get on camera, I mean advance racial equality....


    The one opportunity the reverend passed up was when Junior (the Congressman) and his daughter-in-law copped pleas in federal court to using campaign funds as their personal piggy bank. But never fear. The family isn't out of money. For years two of his kids owned the Budweiser distributorship in Chicago, which they acquired after Dad threatened Budweiser with a national boycott because of its lack of minority-owned distributorships.

  • Reply 49 of 94
    Why not pay them $100/hr plus lifetime benefits? That way no one would ever have to go to college and try harder in life.
  • Reply 50 of 94
    ecatsecats Posts: 272member
    While I can understand the argument affecting security workers.
    If a protest is able to obtain unauthorised access to Apple's campus and building, then it's not looking too good for a pay rise.

    Being pragmatic, all cities become more expensive overtime. What normal people do is take public transport/drive into work rather than live in a pricy area which burdens their income unnecessarily.

    This isn't particularly unique behaviour either, many use this basic technique to increase their disposable income.
  • Reply 51 of 94
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member

    Jackson met with Tim Cook, decided he was a pushover, and promptly organised this rally. If he had met with Steve Jobs he would have walked out shaking.

  • Reply 52 of 94
    kibitzer wrote: »
    The heck with pay inequality. It could be nothing more than Jesse using a bogus issue to assert his ego and his demagoguery.

    Could be?

    With Jackson it has never been any other way.
  • Reply 53 of 94
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,540member
    It's sad that Apple is once again being used and manipulated by political and social opportunists.

    This a no-win situation for Apple, which is a very socially responsible company compared to so many others. It's putting Apple in a position where it's expected to be the income inequality police force for an entire industry. Why? Because Apple is successful and nothing irks opportunists more than success.

    Income inequality exists for a reason. Maybe we should start talking about the input side of the compensation formula. Things like skills, education, experience, market competitiveness, domain knowledge, and other forms of inputs that drive compensation and income inequality. One can't simply look at the outcomes and retroactively manipulate the results without consideration for the inputs. That would be the single most horrible thing that a society or business could do, i.e., ignore the contributing factors and retroactively cook the answer. But that's exactly what this labor union is proposing. They are investing exactly zero more on the input side of the equation yet they are expecting more on the output side. This makes absolutely no sense.

    Yes there is income inequality here, exactly as there should be. Different inputs should produce different outputs.

    What if we take a look at something more comparable to what these security guards are griping about. These security guards are making $20 an hour to control security in a very safe and bucolic campus setting. At full time hours they're pulling in roughly $3200 per month. Now go take a look at the monthly salaries of a wide swath of junior to mid level military enlisted soldiers, sailors, and airmen. You know, the ones who make up the bulk of the on-the-ground troops dodging bullets in a thankless endeavor that the vast majority of American don't give a damn about.

    http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

    Not until you get up into the higher end of the enlisted pay grades and years of service do these men and women who are fighting a real war against terrorism start making monthly salaries comparable to security guards working in their plush, air conditioned, and safe environment in sunny California. Why don't we see Rev Jackson et al fighting for these military personnel who are putting their lives on the line every day so the rest of the relatively privileged majority of the population do not have to even think about what these soldiers, sailors, and airmen are doing for the rest of us? Getting back to the compensation formula, our military service professionals add "putting my life on the line" to the input side of the formula. The fact that so many in the military are still making less than these security guards leaves me cold.

    Time for reality check Rev Jackson.
  • Reply 54 of 94
    dewme wrote: »
    It's sad that Apple is once again being used and manipulated by political and social opportunists.

    This a no-win situation for Apple, which is a very socially responsible company compared to so many others. It's putting Apple in a position where it's expected to be the income inequality police force for an entire industry. Why? Because Apple is successful and nothing irks opportunists more than success.

    Income inequality exists for a reason. Maybe we should start talking about the input side of the compensation formula. Things like skills, education, experience, market competitiveness, domain knowledge, and other forms of inputs that drive compensation and income inequality. One can't simply look at the outcomes and retroactively manipulate the results without consideration for the inputs. That would be the single most horrible thing that a society or business could do, i.e., ignore the contributing factors and retroactively cook the answer. But that's exactly what this labor union is proposing. They are investing exactly zero more on the input side of the equation yet they are expecting more on the output side. This makes absolutely no sense.

    Yes there is income inequality here, exactly as there should be. Different inputs should produce different outputs.

    What if we take a look at something more comparable to what these security guards are griping about. These security guards are making $20 an hour to control security in a very safe and bucolic campus setting. At full time hours they're pulling in roughly $3200 per month. Now go take a look at the monthly salaries of a wide swath of junior to mid level military enlisted soldiers, sailors, and airmen. You know, the ones who make up the bulk of the on-the-ground troops dodging bullets in a thankless endeavor that the vast majority of American don't give a damn about.

    http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

    Not until you get up into the higher end of the enlisted pay grades and years of service do these men and women who are fighting a real war against terrorism start making monthly salaries comparable to security guards working in their plush, air conditioned, and safe environment in sunny California. Why don't we see Rev Jackson et al fighting for these military personnel who are putting their lives on the line every day so the rest of the relatively privileged majority of the population do not have to even think about what these soldiers, sailors, and airmen are doing for the rest of us? Getting back to the compensation formula, our military service professionals add "putting my life on the line" to the input side of the formula. The fact that so many in the military are still making less than these security guards leaves me cold.

    Time for reality check Rev Jackson.

    No need to offer a craven opportunist any more "good ideas".
  • Reply 55 of 94
    I'm afraid to say that now Tim Cook has shown his true colours, we'll be seeing a lot more of this in the future.

    Cook has made Apple a magnet for all political protest, regardless of any interests Apple may or may not have in it.

    This is why Cook is not the man to lead Apple into the next tech revolution. Politics is his game, and it will be Apple's bane.
  • Reply 56 of 94
    I cannot believe how most of think Apple can do no wrong and you will defend the company as if were your child. Apple is one of the biggest corporations in the world and although it has an excellent track record when it comes to its employees it does not mean its policies could not be improved. I do not live in the SF area but from all accounts it is one of the most expensive area's in which to live. The success of Apple and other high tech companies have brought tremendous financial gains but it also has raised living costs to a point that the average worker is being forced out or choose to get by on less and less each year. For those of you too young or void of a knowledge of American 20th century history, it is labor unions which created the middle class which has been shrinking since the 1980's. Think context before you rant about something you don't understand and do not always give big corporations a pass no matter how much you enjoy their products and services.
  • Reply 57 of 94
    Apple is one of the biggest corporations in the world and although it has an excellent track record when it comes to its employees it does not mean its policies could not be improved. I do not live in the SF area but from all accounts it is one of the most expensive area's in which to live. The success of Apple and other high tech companies have brought tremendous financial gains but it also has raised living costs to a point that the average worker is being forced out or choose to get by on less and less each year. For those of you too young or void of a knowledge of American 20th century history, it is labor unions which created the middle class which has been shrinking since the 1980's. Think context before you rant about something you don't understand and do not always give big corporations a pass no matter how much you enjoy their products and services.
  • Reply 58 of 94
    jmc54jmc54 Posts: 207member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by davidc View Post

     

    The SEIU is a corrupt organization.  I Would be willing to bet that none of the protesters were actual contractors.  I'm sure they were paid participants shipped in from somewhere else.  A common tactic for that organization.




    Just another attempt by organized labor to become relevant! Even money says that the majority to those protestors were hired by seiu. Kind of like the walmart protestors!

  • Reply 59 of 94
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,655member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

     

    These people aint shit. They are certainly not the foundation of anything, least of all high tech and biotech. What a joke.<img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

     

    Their jobs are easily replaceable and not much skill is required to carry out their jobs.

     

    They should be fired. 0 dollars an hour is certainly lower than 20 dollars an hour.

     




    What a surprise that you feel that way.

     

    I know I won't change your mind, but companies have contract workers to get out of paying them decent wages and benefits.   I worked for a large media company which also employed contract workers for the security force and for cleaning.    I then moved on to another gig.   After another company left the building, they got rid of most of the contracted security staff.    

     

    Some months later, I was shopping downtown and someone called out to me who I didn't immediately recognize.   It turned out to be one of the ex-security guys and after losing his job, he was now homeless.   

     

    I don't think you realize how close these workers live to the edge, especially in regions where housing is very expensive, like San Francisco/Cupertino/Palo Alto and New York City, just to name two.    While $19.77 sounds like a fair wage for someone without skills to just check people into a building, you can't live on it in such places and I'm not talking about living in Manhattan - you can't live on it in the outer reaches of the outer NYC boroughs.   And considering the profits of Apple and companies like it, they should pay better.

     

    Of course, I don't expect you to agree for reasons and attitudes you've declared about 10,000 times before.      

  • Reply 60 of 94
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DewMe View Post





    What if we take a look at something more comparable to what these security guards are griping about. These security guards are making $20 an hour to control security in a very safe and bucolic campus setting. At full time hours they're pulling in roughly $3200 per month. Now go take a look at the monthly salaries of a wide swath of junior to mid level military enlisted soldiers, sailors, and airmen. You know, the ones who make up the bulk of the on-the-ground troops dodging bullets in a thankless endeavor that the vast majority of American don't give a damn about.



    http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp



    Not until you get up into the higher end of the enlisted pay grades and years of service do these men and women who are fighting a real war against terrorism start making monthly salaries comparable to security guards working in their plush, air conditioned, and safe environment in sunny California. Why don't we see Rev Jackson et al fighting for these military personnel who are putting their lives on the line every day so the rest of the relatively privileged majority of the population do not have to even think about what these soldiers, sailors, and airmen are doing for the rest of us? Getting back to the compensation formula, our military service professionals add "putting my life on the line" to the input side of the formula. The fact that so many in the military are still making less than these security guards leaves me cold.



    Time for reality check Rev Jackson.

     

    Military people have other benefits, like free room and board (or cash allowances for such). Some live gloriously in California. Most military people will never be in harms way in any greater degree than any other job. Military people have it good in a lot of ways - they can sign up and instantly have a secure job and training and a good life with lots of travel and great experiences. Plus they get a guaranteed pension for life after 20 years of service, so you could retire from the military at 38 years old (or even 37) and start a full new career doing something else.

     

    You need to nearly double the military wages for the full compensation of salary and housing, and sometimes triple it for the places the live.

     

    People need to stop glorifying the military. The people that glorify the military are probably people who would never sign up and never did serve their country.

     

     

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