Then this morning B&H lists them at even less, $1149.
Apple's refurb would be better value. Although it's the 2013 model, it's pretty much the same as the 2014 model, just a minor clock speed difference but has a 256GB SSD for $10 more:
What's most interesting is that they are not even advertising this as a markdown. Which leads me to believe they are quietly clearing out inventory in advance of the release of the new MBP — could this one will be "it"? What's the general lead time in such a case? I'm tho exthited!
They don't get told about upcoming releases but if there is one then it would happen early 2015 because Intel is moving ahead with the next chip model in 2015 too. Broadwell was supposed to come this year but it got pushed back and they put out Haswell refresh instead, which makes the 2014 models practically the same as the 2013 models with just unnoticeable clock speed bumps.
Apple could go two ways. They can skip Broadwell entirely and just move right to Skylake or they can use both and issue Broadwell upgrades in early 2015 and then Skylake in late 2015. I wonder if that's why they skipped the 850M too, maybe they'll use it with Broadwell.
Thanks Marvin, I was looking at the refurbed and earlier models too but the 8GB RAM and 10+hr battery life of the current MBP were more important to me. Not to mention that buying from either B&H or Apple, as a NYS resident I'd have been paying an extra hundred in tax. Still yeah, that 256GB SSD does add a couple hundred in value, at today's storage prices.
So Skylake could support wireless charging, huh. Might be the way Apple gets around the mag-safe port being too thick to fit in a slimmed down chassis. Though the new reversible USB 3.1 Type-C plug could also be a solution, maybe have a mag-safe kind of connection on the wall adapter instead? Dunno if that would be quite as safe though. Think the Yoga Pro 3 comes with micro USB, imagine Type-C could charge a lot faster and the port would be double function.
Anyway I'm not holding my breath over this one, given all the delays with both Haswell and Broadwell.
Intels yield issues have been solved and a very early release of MBA suitable processors is planned for 2015. I'm not sure what you are trying to say but the article implied that there are currently yield issues of some sort with the new Air, any current yield issues are not Intel related.
Surface is actually a great idea, albeit poorly executed. Windows 8 Metro was bold and different, but also crappy and horrible. Nice they tried being original though got to give them that.
Being original with products that sell is better.
But convergence is not a good business strategy for Apple, because it's much more profitable to sell you all an iPad and a laptop instead of just a laptop with touch and iOS mode.
Apples best chance of continuing success is to keep innovating. If they can morph IOS into a platform that supports both the tablet and laptop user it would be a huge success. So far I haven't seen a successful design so that isn't an issue we have a benchmark for. However because a successful design doesn't exist today doesn't mean one can't exist tomorrow.
Perhaps more important for Apples long term success is the need to have access to the processor Silicon. Intel seems to be willing to do custom at the extreme high end and even the low end but I've seen nothing yet for the mainstream. Apple needs access to the silicon to be able to keep innovating. As such I could see them make a break for Intel for a combo machine.
As much as that would be a great product, I don't see it happening until iPad sales start tanking perhaps due to market saturation or Android competition, either of which may or may not happen.
I suspect it won't happen until they get a design that feels right.
But seriously where is the 14 or 15" MacBook Air that's all I care about. Ready for Apple to take my money on a new laptop but only when MBP prices aren't insane again or when MBA screen is >14".
Actually I'd like to know myself! If they did do a 12" Air a 14" to sit along side it makes a lot of sense.
Well the CES is in early January and as such I wouldn't be surprised to see Intel announce bulk shipments of the 14 nm Broadwell devices. So yeah clearing stocks is a real possibility. I could see Apple shipping new Airs within a couple of weeks of Intels release.
In other words I wouldn't be buying any laptop right now with a potential product release only a couple of week away.
Funny but as my old Mac recently died I've been trolling eBay for an entry level 13" Retina Macbook Pro. Overnight a couple units of the current model, new sealed in box, appeared for less than at the Apple Store (and they're usually actually more at the tat bazaar). Then this morning B&H lists them at even less, $1149. What's most interesting is that they are not even advertising this as a markdown. Which leads me to believe they are quietly clearing out inventory in advance of the release of the new MBP — could this one will be "it"? What's the general lead time in such a case? I'm tho exthited!
Apple's refurb would be better value. Although it's the 2013 model, it's pretty much the same as the 2014 model, just a minor clock speed difference but has a 256GB SSD for $10 more:
You can also get an even cheaper model for $999 if it's for basic use. It only comes with 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD:
I personally have a hard time suggesting that anyone these days buy a laptop with only 4GB of RAM even more so in the Apple case because of the lack of a post purchase upgrade solution.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FE864LL/A/refurbished-133-inch-macbook-pro-24ghz-dual-core-intel-i5-with-retina-display
They don't get told about upcoming releases but if there is one then it would happen early 2015 because Intel is moving ahead with the next chip model in 2015 too. Broadwell was supposed to come this year but it got pushed back and they put out Haswell refresh instead, which makes the 2014 models practically the same as the 2013 models with just unnoticeable clock speed bumps.
This is so true, Haswell refresh was the biggest joke of 2014 as the extra 100 MHz does nothing for the Average user. That being said I suspect that most people will be better off waiting for Broadwell based Airs to ship if they can. Im hoping that Apple doesn't squander performance for the quest for lower thermals as Broadwell has the potential to deliver a nice performance boost to the Air. Even if you don't want to lay out the cash for Broadwell, the new generation should effectively lower the cost of used and reform Airs from 2013/14.
Apple could go two ways. They can skip Broadwell entirely and just move right to Skylake or they can use both and issue Broadwell upgrades in early 2015 and then Skylake in late 2015. I wonder if that's why they skipped the 850M too, maybe they'll use it with Broadwell.
I don't think Apple has a choice here, if Broadwell does in fact perform as well as we hope they will have no choice but to bring out an Air supporting it within weeks of Intel release. Sales of the Airs would tank otherwise and Apple doesn't want that to happen.
As far as the Mac Book Pro's I'm not expecting an update anytime soon. First the rumor is that the first Broadwells will be relatively low power models of less than 28 watts. This site: http://www.cpu-world.com/Releases/Mobile_CPU_releases_(2015).html is placing Broadwell laptop chip deliveries in March which I find very hard to believe. That is effectively spring time. None of these processors is really suitable for a MBP either. Either way this is why I expect an Air upgrade well be for a MBP upgrade, I've simp,y have heard very little about laptop chips in a power range that Apple commonly uses in the Pro. Considering that the Pro needs a performance boost as much as the Air I can't see Apple lowering the processor wattage that much. If anything they would go after Intel solutions with a much faster GPU to drop the discrete GPU all together. I don't expect to see discrete GPUs disappear in the MBP until SkyLake.
Oh on more thing, if Apple drops the discrete GPU expect to hear excessive whining about Apple no longer being a machine for professionals!????. This even if the GPU is faster than today's shipping machines.
On another note the way I parse the article has me believing that it was Apple having yield issues. This could mean anything from a design error to new tech being incorporated into the machine. Without more information it is the same old thing we hear everytime a new Apple product is rumored. In a nut shell this is what I was responding to, the same old BS about yield issues for this and that device from Apple. Garbage really, especially if you have been involved in a production line start up.
I want this but running OS X and perhaps iOS with a touchscreen (maybe as a 'pro' vers. of this kind of a product, with the regular edition with nontouch screen)
I'm waiting for Relic to admonish you about that statement.
In any event what makes a Swiss Knife great is its utility. What is perplexing about these sort of comments is that everybody believes that Apple can't find a way to make such a machine work. Or that they can't come up with a completely different take on the mobile computing concept. Look at the number of year it took them to deliver the first iPad. The concept for iPad was hatched before the public even saw the first iPhone. The point is Apple spent years refining the concepts behind the iPAds user interface to deliver something entirely new to the user world.
You can't mix to different UX paradigms without sacrificing UX. That's why OS X and iOS are two separate platforms. It is a deliberate choice of Apple.
It was certainly a deliberate choice done so based on what they had available technology wise at the time. It is foolish to believe that Apple can't refine a mobile solution that leverages both UX.
Companies offering 2-in-1 devices are trying to look innovative and provide seemingly more value over the MacBook. In reality it's a step back and history had already seen it all. But people never learn.
Actually stubbornness here may be clouding your judgement. 2in1 devices can be very valuable if the execution is done well. Just because MS issued forth a crappy design doesn't mean that Apple would. In fact Apples solution might not even resemble the current alternatives.
Think about it a bit, go back in time to before the iPad debut. At the time a vast number of predictions and concepts where floated many never coming close to what Apple actually delivered. Actually the same thing can be said for iPhone. Now we see, or maybe accept, that Apple got the UX right on these devices.
All I'm saying here is don't count Apple out as far as innovating a solution here.
You are completely correct that the future can bring surprises.
Like the poor performance of Intes new Broadwell M in these machines.
But I'm saying that the concept sucks RIGHT NOW, for obvious reasons and with consumers voting their dollars to back it up.
Which means nothing really, you can't judge a machine that doesn't exist yet based on hardware on sale right now. This is my point, you really can't pass judgement on a device that doesn't exist yet.
And you are saying "if it were…maybe they can…if it would work like in my imagination then it remotely maybe could be great. I think."
Nope I'm saying you have no basis to dismiss what Apple might make based on what is available now. Look at what happened with net books, everybody went low performance with these machines and frankly to the point they where not realistically usable. Apple takes a different approach with the Air and has a runaway success story. The major differences between the Air and the common netbooks of the time is that the Air had as much performance as they could squeeze out of the form factor and had a minimal of extras. In other words the Air is a net book done right.
What marketeers are trying to hide is that a 2-in-1 combo is just a ramshackled laptop. At most it's a niche market.
They aren't trying to hide anything, they have produced a product and put it on the market. Frankly I really don't understand how you even have come up with this comment. The current 2in1s may leave a bit to be desired but the manufactures are not trying to hide anything at all. Beyond that you have to remember that smart phones where a niche at one time as where tablets - what did Apple do to thise markets?
Wizard good point I can definitely see Apple doing great things with convergence. After all.. To take it old school.. The Duo was a great desktop and laptop.
dklebedev I get what you mean.. And I would have agreed with you until this year. The tech has now arrived that 2in1 works, works well, and is cheap enough. if Apple prices it mid to high that will avoid cannibalizing the other products but the users that truly want this will still buy it. Seems like it'd be worth a shot anyway. It's good to see they are back in a big R&D mode this year, with the Watch and iPhone 6. But now it's time for a Renaissance for the laptops! Convergence time baby!
There is no such thing! That is why laptops come in a variety of sizes. I'm a heavy IPad user and at times have been frustrated that the screen is too small and at other times frustrated that it is too big. For example IPad is fairly big for use in the car. On the flip side it is rather small for the web and viewing technical drawings.
You can't have optimized software for both. (MS can't even have software optimized for Windows lol)
You don't need optimized software for both. In many cases an IPad that better supported a keyboard would be ideal. You seem to have a bit if stubborness here and don't want to acknowledge that there are a range of needs out there.
They do not make your life any easier.
iPad itself has changed my life dramatically. If they can pull off a machine that supports more advanced user needs it will be a big win.
And they are just clunky and awkward PCs. I mean look at those things. Ramshackled laptops with loose screens and unnecessary moving parts.
Again you can't see beyond what is already in the market. Then you take that bias and try to smear the devices as "laptops" as if that is a bad thing. You do realize that portable computers once came in housings that had more in common with a suitcase than a book.
I have to erase my whole knowledge to even remotely think it's a good idea.
Actually you don't, all you need to do is acknowledge that different people have different needs. Using your rational the MBA are a mistake because the MBPs are far higher performance devices. That makes no sense because all machines are by design a compromise.
A tablet with a keyboard cover is as far as it goes. The few people who look up to this are either caught up in their dreams or are missing the point that the majority doesn't need a tablet to be a laptop and vice versa.
There is your problem, it isn't about being a laptop but rather building a bridge device that leaves some of the limitations of IOS devices behind. Nobody in their right mind would replace a MBP with this device and probably not the MBA line.
This is going to pass as well as all the other frankensteins the industry had seen. And it seen LOTS.
Yep! I can remember countless attempts at tablets I the past. It got so bad that many considered a reasonable design to be impossible. Then the iPad came around and totally upset the market. This is why I don't dismiss Apples capability here.
Wizard good point I can definitely see Apple doing great things with convergence. After all.. To take it old school.. The Duo was a great desktop and laptop.
Actually one of the things I was hoping to see Apple do with TB was to produce a viable dock that would be a modern equivalent of the Duo. That is setup the laptops to be able to morph into a desktop via a connection over TB. Apple sort of accomplished this via their monitor but unfortunately that hasn't been updated recently. Apple does seem to drop the ball a lot they will be half way there with tech causing to wait for the next release only to have your hopes destroyed by really stupid moves. The latest example being dropping quad cores on the Mini.
dklebedev I get what you mean.. And I would have agreed with you until this year. The tech has now arrived that 2in1 works, works well, and is cheap enough. if Apple prices it mid to high that will avoid cannibalizing the other products but the users that truly want this will still buy it.
Cannibalization is a poor argument. To stay ahead of the game Apple needs to cannibalize its own legacy hardware to make sure the competition isn't given an easy in. IPad is a perfect example of closing out the competition the only thing that was odd here is that IPad seems to have driven Mac sales instead of cannibalizing thise sales.
Seems like it'd be worth a shot anyway. It's good to see they are back in a big R&D mode this year, with the Watch and iPhone 6. But now it's time for a Renaissance for the laptops! Convergence time baby!
Convergence - probably not. As for the laptops yes they are way past due for an upgrade.
like you said Wiz it's about what's next. New product categories. And yes, Windows 8 sucks, I use it plenty and Metro sucks. Completely. But I like that MS tried. But the hardware components are there, waiting for someone like Apple to make it work. Apple took existing tech and made the iPhone, which was the first useable smartphone. Time to do the same for 2in1. What better than a company that makes good hardware and has OS X and iOS. Only thing is, is that I hope it'd be OS X with an iOS on top (like Metro but done right) versus iOS on steroids.
dklebedev you know that awkward pic of Steve you posted? Well that's the face I feel like making everytime I see someone struggling with their iPad and keyboard case which you mentioned. People already try to make their iPad do desktop things. Time has come for 2in1. Apple can make money. I feel the market might be there for it. Might not. But if it was my call as Tim Cook I'd at least take the gamble and release it. I had an iPad from work. Never used it. I always wanted to multitask or do other things like Flash etc. Eventually I settled and got a Galaxy Note. I could potentially consider an Apple 2in1 as my next primary computing platform if the screen was at least 13". Would be sweet. Especially if price wasn't too bad.
Wiz what I really meant was I could understand why until now Apple didn't want to "cannibalize" because I was just theorizing that was part of their business decision. Which is kind of understandable. On the other hand like I think you're getting at, there is now potentially a market for 2in1 as a new category. And like you said, that would have been neat if they made a Thunderbolt dock. Now, though..I think they'll do a 2in1 before they do that.
Comments
Apple's refurb would be better value. Although it's the 2013 model, it's pretty much the same as the 2014 model, just a minor clock speed difference but has a 256GB SSD for $10 more:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1072685-REG/apple_mgx72ll_a_13_3_macbook_pro_notebook.html
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FE865LL/A/refurbished-133-inch-macbook-pro-24ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i5
You can also get an even cheaper model for $999 if it's for basic use. It only comes with 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FE864LL/A/refurbished-133-inch-macbook-pro-24ghz-dual-core-intel-i5-with-retina-display
They don't get told about upcoming releases but if there is one then it would happen early 2015 because Intel is moving ahead with the next chip model in 2015 too. Broadwell was supposed to come this year but it got pushed back and they put out Haswell refresh instead, which makes the 2014 models practically the same as the 2013 models with just unnoticeable clock speed bumps.
Apple could go two ways. They can skip Broadwell entirely and just move right to Skylake or they can use both and issue Broadwell upgrades in early 2015 and then Skylake in late 2015. I wonder if that's why they skipped the 850M too, maybe they'll use it with Broadwell.
So Skylake could support wireless charging, huh. Might be the way Apple gets around the mag-safe port being too thick to fit in a slimmed down chassis. Though the new reversible USB 3.1 Type-C plug could also be a solution, maybe have a mag-safe kind of connection on the wall adapter instead? Dunno if that would be quite as safe though. Think the Yoga Pro 3 comes with micro USB, imagine Type-C could charge a lot faster and the port would be double function.
Anyway I'm not holding my breath over this one, given all the delays with both Haswell and Broadwell.
Intels yield issues have been solved and a very early release of MBA suitable processors is planned for 2015. I'm not sure what you are trying to say but the article implied that there are currently yield issues of some sort with the new Air, any current yield issues are not Intel related.
Perhaps more important for Apples long term success is the need to have access to the processor Silicon. Intel seems to be willing to do custom at the extreme high end and even the low end but I've seen nothing yet for the mainstream. Apple needs access to the silicon to be able to keep innovating. As such I could see them make a break for Intel for a combo machine. I suspect it won't happen until they get a design that feels right.
Actually I'd like to know myself! If they did do a 12" Air a 14" to sit along side it makes a lot of sense.
In other words I wouldn't be buying any laptop right now with a potential product release only a couple of week away.
I don't think Apple has a choice here, if Broadwell does in fact perform as well as we hope they will have no choice but to bring out an Air supporting it within weeks of Intel release. Sales of the Airs would tank otherwise and Apple doesn't want that to happen.
As far as the Mac Book Pro's I'm not expecting an update anytime soon. First the rumor is that the first Broadwells will be relatively low power models of less than 28 watts. This site: http://www.cpu-world.com/Releases/Mobile_CPU_releases_(2015).html is placing Broadwell laptop chip deliveries in March which I find very hard to believe. That is effectively spring time. None of these processors is really suitable for a MBP either. Either way this is why I expect an Air upgrade well be for a MBP upgrade, I've simp,y have heard very little about laptop chips in a power range that Apple commonly uses in the Pro. Considering that the Pro needs a performance boost as much as the Air I can't see Apple lowering the processor wattage that much. If anything they would go after Intel solutions with a much faster GPU to drop the discrete GPU all together. I don't expect to see discrete GPUs disappear in the MBP until SkyLake.
Oh on more thing, if Apple drops the discrete GPU expect to hear excessive whining about Apple no longer being a machine for professionals!????. This even if the GPU is faster than today's shipping machines.
Leaked information. By the way this doesn't imply that yields are as good as Intel would like, just that it is now feasible to start shipping product.
This article: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/12/23/what-is-intel-corporation-doing-about-the-broadwel.aspx is interesting due to to cost graph for three different products. Yields will go up with Broadwell thus prices will come down. Unfortunately I can't find the article on yields but I'm fairly certain that any yield issues aren't Intel related anymore.
On another note the way I parse the article has me believing that it was Apple having yield issues. This could mean anything from a design error to new tech being incorporated into the machine. Without more information it is the same old thing we hear everytime a new Apple product is rumored. In a nut shell this is what I was responding to, the same old BS about yield issues for this and that device from Apple. Garbage really, especially if you have been involved in a production line start up.
meanwhile this happened http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/laptops/samsung-unveils-12-inch-retina-macbook-air-competitor-with-12-hour-battery-life-1278477
I want this but running OS X and perhaps iOS with a touchscreen (maybe as a 'pro' vers. of this kind of a product, with the regular edition with nontouch screen)
In any event what makes a Swiss Knife great is its utility. What is perplexing about these sort of comments is that everybody believes that Apple can't find a way to make such a machine work. Or that they can't come up with a completely different take on the mobile computing concept. Look at the number of year it took them to deliver the first iPad. The concept for iPad was hatched before the public even saw the first iPhone. The point is Apple spent years refining the concepts behind the iPAds user interface to deliver something entirely new to the user world. It was certainly a deliberate choice done so based on what they had available technology wise at the time. It is foolish to believe that Apple can't refine a mobile solution that leverages both UX.
Actually stubbornness here may be clouding your judgement. 2in1 devices can be very valuable if the execution is done well. Just because MS issued forth a crappy design doesn't mean that Apple would. In fact Apples solution might not even resemble the current alternatives.
Think about it a bit, go back in time to before the iPad debut. At the time a vast number of predictions and concepts where floated many never coming close to what Apple actually delivered. Actually the same thing can be said for iPhone. Now we see, or maybe accept, that Apple got the UX right on these devices.
All I'm saying here is don't count Apple out as far as innovating a solution here.
They aren't trying to hide anything, they have produced a product and put it on the market. Frankly I really don't understand how you even have come up with this comment. The current 2in1s may leave a bit to be desired but the manufactures are not trying to hide anything at all. Beyond that you have to remember that smart phones where a niche at one time as where tablets - what did Apple do to thise markets?
dklebedev I get what you mean.. And I would have agreed with you until this year. The tech has now arrived that 2in1 works, works well, and is cheap enough. if Apple prices it mid to high that will avoid cannibalizing the other products but the users that truly want this will still buy it. Seems like it'd be worth a shot anyway. It's good to see they are back in a big R&D mode this year, with the Watch and iPhone 6. But now it's time for a Renaissance for the laptops! Convergence time baby!
Yep! I can remember countless attempts at tablets I the past. It got so bad that many considered a reasonable design to be impossible. Then the iPad came around and totally upset the market. This is why I don't dismiss Apples capability here.
Convergence - probably not. As for the laptops yes they are way past due for an upgrade.
like you said Wiz it's about what's next. New product categories. And yes, Windows 8 sucks, I use it plenty and Metro sucks. Completely. But I like that MS tried. But the hardware components are there, waiting for someone like Apple to make it work. Apple took existing tech and made the iPhone, which was the first useable smartphone. Time to do the same for 2in1. What better than a company that makes good hardware and has OS X and iOS. Only thing is, is that I hope it'd be OS X with an iOS on top (like Metro but done right) versus iOS on steroids.
dklebedev you know that awkward pic of Steve you posted? Well that's the face I feel like making everytime I see someone struggling with their iPad and keyboard case which you mentioned. People already try to make their iPad do desktop things. Time has come for 2in1. Apple can make money. I feel the market might be there for it. Might not. But if it was my call as Tim Cook I'd at least take the gamble and release it. I had an iPad from work. Never used it. I always wanted to multitask or do other things like Flash etc. Eventually I settled and got a Galaxy Note. I could potentially consider an Apple 2in1 as my next primary computing platform if the screen was at least 13". Would be sweet. Especially if price wasn't too bad.
Wiz what I really meant was I could understand why until now Apple didn't want to "cannibalize" because I was just theorizing that was part of their business decision. Which is kind of understandable. On the other hand like I think you're getting at, there is now potentially a market for 2in1 as a new category. And like you said, that would have been neat if they made a Thunderbolt dock. Now, though..I think they'll do a 2in1 before they do that.