Rumor: Apple's 12" MacBook Air with Retina display to enter production in Q1 2015

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  • Reply 101 of 125
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    joelsalt wrote: »

    You really don't want an Air.  Everything you are describing says "I want a MacBook Pro"

    Not really, everything I describe can be had in a current MBA chassis with a 15 watt Broadwell upgrade. A retina screen is a no brainier at this point, Broadwell should significantly reduce board space allowing for either 3 USB ports or two TB ports as an upgrade I've re the existing design.

    Broadwell isn't perfect but it isn't a useless upgrade, why anyone would dismiss it in a MBA upgrade is beyond me.
  • Reply 102 of 125
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Marvin wrote: »
    He wants a Macbook Pro at the price of a Macbook Air with the performance of a Mac Pro.

    Actually what I see here is an opportunity to get a far more portable replacement for my old 2008 MBP that actually performs much better. I don't expect the performance of a modern MBP, I simply expect the performance that Intel can deliver in the platform with currently available hardware.

    Honestly I'm not sure what you guys are whining about here, who wouldn't want a Broadwell power Air? As for retina that will happen sooner or later, Broadwell simply has the GPU chops to make sure it doesn't suck completely.
  • Reply 103 of 125
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    crowley wrote: »
    Who doesn't?

    Some here act as if my request is some wild ass pipe dream. In fact all I'm asking for is the delivery of current technology in the MBA chassis. If it can be done in products costing far less why not do retina in a MBA. As for Broadwell the 15 watt chips are designed specifically for this sort of machine.
  • Reply 104 of 125
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    Some here act as if my request is some wild ass pipe dream. In fact all I'm asking for is the delivery of current technology in the MBA chassis. If it can be done in products costing far less why not do retina in a MBA. As for Broadwell the 15 watt chips are designed specifically for this sort of machine.



    I agree it could and might be done – but the philosophy espoused- Needs high performance, needs many ports et al. - is a MBP philosophy.  So use this chip and keep the ports and shrink up the MBP slightly; But compared to the difference between the MBA and the MBP when MBA first came out, there's not much point in keeping around a rMBA at 12-13" right alongside the rMBP if you want them both to have high performance.  What differentiates them?

     

    The MBA's philosophy should be portability at all costs, if using a ultra low power chip (even an A series) and cutting ports allows them to shave off 20% more volume, i think it makes sense to choose to do that.

  • Reply 105 of 125
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    You completely mis the point here.
    joelsalt wrote: »

    I agree it could and might be done – but the philosophy espoused- Needs high performance, needs many ports et al. - is a MBP philosophy.
    I really don't understand why so many are having an issue understanding what is being asked for here. What is wanted is an update to the MBA that delivers a 15 watt Broadwell processor to replace the current 17 watt processor. This is certainly not a high performance machine in any way shape or form. Yes it is a step up from the current machine, especially as it relates to GPU performance but that is what people expect out of a new generation of processors.
     So use this chip and keep the ports and shrink up the MBP slightly; But compared to the difference between the MBA and the MBP when MBA first came out, there's not much point in keeping around a rMBA at 12-13" right alongside the rMBP if you want them both to have high performance.  What differentiates them?
    Questions like this boggle the mind, a whole new generation of processors, two actually, will be out this year. The 13" rMBP can go quad core if differentiation is that important to you. Or the can go to a shipping 28 watt chip. Performance is what would differentiate the platforms just as it is now the primary differentiator.

    The MBA's philosophy should be portability at all costs,
    I have a iPhone for that. Since this rumored design is suppose to be fanless it frankly can exist with the current MBA's fine the performance of this machine would likely suck in real world usage.

    By the way I'm not dismissing that a market exists for this fanless machine, I'm just of the opinion that it's performance will be so limiting that the market will demand something better between this rumored laptop and the MBP's. That would be the current Air chassis updated of course.
    if using a ultra low power chip (even an A series) and cutting ports allows them to shave off 20% more volume, i think it makes sense to choose to do that.

    Probably for some users. For me, if the current Air dies, it will be the death of a product line just as technology is becoming good enough to justify buying one.
  • Reply 106 of 125
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    You completely mis the point here.

    I really don't understand why so many are having an issue understanding what is being asked for here. What is wanted is an update to the MBA that delivers a 15 watt Broadwell processor to replace the current 17 watt processor. This is certainly not a high performance machine in any way shape or form. Yes it is a step up from the current machine, especially as it relates to GPU performance but that is what people expect out of a new generation of processors.



    Questions like this boggle the mind, a whole new generation of processors, two actually, will be out this year. The 13" rMBP can go quad core if differentiation is that important to you. Or the can go to a shipping 28 watt chip. Performance is what would differentiate the platforms just as it is now the primary differentiator.

    I have a iPhone for that. Since this rumored design is suppose to be fanless it frankly can exist with the current MBA's fine the performance of this machine would likely suck in real world usage.



    By the way I'm not dismissing that a market exists for this fanless machine, I'm just of the opinion that it's performance will be so limiting that the market will demand something better between this rumored laptop and the MBP's. That would be the current Air chassis updated of course.

    Probably for some users. For me, if the current Air dies, it will be the death of a product line just as technology is becoming good enough to justify buying one.



    You are really inconsistent.  You insist that the Air must have high performance, but also that performance will differentiate the Pro and the Air?  Anyway we'll see what happens later this year.

     

    Cheers

  • Reply 107 of 125
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,403moderator
    wizard69 wrote: »
    For me, if the current Air dies, it will be the death of a product line just as technology is becoming good enough to justify buying one.

    This happened with the Mini already though. They had quad-cores and could have had Iris Pro and then they dropped back to ULT dual-core chips.

    Only Apple knows the buyer demographics and what their sales growth plan is. If people are genuinely committed to investing in the Mac eco-system then at worst, they will delay a purchase.

    They don't want to sell a $999 laptop to people who want MBP performance, they want to sell a $1999 laptop to them because those buyers appreciate the higher spec and they are willing to pay for it. Apple can't be as competitive on price when they pack more into the lower-end machines while maintaining healthy margins.

    The demographic for the Air has been clear ever since the first design. It had ports hidden away in a latch:

    1000

    The aim is going to be to get the design to be like an iPad in a laptop form factor. Once they reach that, the performance will improve. They may introduce a Broadwell model that is higher performance in a similar profile before going Retina with Skylake though but expect a TDP drop at some point.
  • Reply 108 of 125
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Marvin wrote: »
    This happened with the Mini already though. They had quad-cores and could have had Iris Pro and then they dropped back to ULT dual-core chips.

    Only Apple knows the buyer demographics and what their sales growth plan is. If people are genuinely committed to investing in the Mac eco-system then at worst, they will delay a purchase.
    Well we will see about that, I haven't heard anything that indicates that the new Minis are a run away success.
    They don't want to sell a $999 laptop to people who want MBP performance,
    You keep repeating this nonsense when it isn't at all rational. Putting a 15 watt Broadwell into the MBA simply modernizes it. It doesn't in any shape or form turn it into a MBP. This especially considering that MBP is in line for an update also, probably to SkyLake.
    they want to sell a $1999 laptop to them because those buyers appreciate the higher spec and they are willing to pay for it.
    Broadwell in a MBA wouldn't change that one bit.
    Apple can't be as competitive on price when they pack more into the lower-end machines while maintaining healthy margins.
    Sure they can that is what high integration chips do for you. Broadwell being a multi chip module can't really be called a SOC but it offers similar benefits including a further reduction in required motherboard size.
    The demographic for the Air has been clear ever since the first design. It had ports hidden away in a latch:
    Yep and real computer users complained loudly about that. The fact is Apple listened and eventually change the marketing approach to the Air completely making it a very effective replacement for the Mac Book. Those changes lead to a runaway success story.

    The aim is going to be to get the design to be like an iPad in a laptop form factor. Once they reach that, the performance will improve.
    The point I'm trying to make is that I already have an iPad, I have zero need for an iPad like laptop.
    They may introduce a Broadwell model that is higher performance in a similar profile before going Retina with Skylake though but expect a TDP drop at some point.
    If this rumor has any validity at all I really hope that the machine arrives as a third model in the laptop lineup. Further the current Airs had better get a series update. I realize that the described machine is exactly what some want but I have a hard time seeing a runaway success here.
  • Reply 109 of 125
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,403moderator
    wizard69 wrote: »
    I haven't heard anything that indicates that the new Minis are a run away success.

    You don't really get any indicators one way or the other but it doesn't have to be a runaway success in volume to be a better sales strategy. It encouraged some people who don't care about performance to buy the new one and possibly improved margins on those sales. I know someone who was waiting for the Mini, saw it was downgraded and just gave up and bought a MBP instead and wished they'd done it sooner because it was everything they wanted in a Mini - quad-i7 and fast GPU, they just had to pay more for it but they love the portability.
    wizard69 wrote: »
    Putting a 15 watt Broadwell into the MBA simply modernizes it. It doesn't in any shape or form turn it into a MBP.

    Then why would you want it?
    wizard69 wrote: »
    I already have an iPad, I have zero need for an iPad like laptop.

    So buy a MBP.
    wizard69 wrote: »
    I realize that the described machine is exactly what some want but I have a hard time seeing a runaway success here.

    For it to be a runaway success the way you're describing, you'd have to be assuming that your own needs align with the needs of the majority of Apple's current userbase. Given that the highest-selling model is the Macbook Air, the need for high performance doesn't seem to be the priority at the low-end.
  • Reply 110 of 125
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Marvin wrote: »
    You don't really get any indicators one way or the other but it doesn't have to be a runaway success in volume to be a better sales strategy. It encouraged some people who don't care about performance to buy the new one and possibly improved margins on those sales.
    I'm not denying that there is a market for this machine just that I don't want to see it replace the MBAs completely.
    I know someone who was waiting for the Mini, saw it was downgraded and just gave up and bought a MBP instead and wished they'd done it sooner because it was everything they wanted in a Mini - quad-i7 and fast GPU, they just had to pay more for it but they love the portability.
    Hey I really liked my old MBP, but liking that machine doesn't mean that I'd want to replace it with another of the same.
    Then why would you want it?
    You can't be serious! I'm not sure if you are trying to be argument ive here or are just dense but the reason is the same for every other MBA release that has come along enabled by a new Intel processor. You get the layest and greatest performance and the maximal life expectancy out of the model.
    So buy a MBP.
    Why would I do that if a Broadwell based Air would be a better choice for my current needs.
    For it to be a runaway success the way you're describing, you'd have to be assuming that your own needs align with the needs of the majority of Apple's current userbase. Given that the highest-selling model is the Macbook Air, the need for high performance doesn't seem to be the priority at the low-end.

    Well you have to look a bit deeper and understand why the MBA has been such a success. That is directly tied to the idea that it is effectively a netbook without the performance compromises of a netbook. The Airs success has gone hand in hand with Apples ability to put faster and faster Intel chips into the platform. This has kept the Air from sucking bad as Mac OS demands have increased.

    In a nut shell Air has been successful due to Apples ability to dramatically increase performance of the platform. Putting a 15 watt Broadwell in the machine just continue the trend and no it doesn't make it a MBP in any shape or form.
  • Reply 111 of 125
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,403moderator
    wizard69 wrote: »
    So buy a MBP.
    Why would I do that if a Broadwell based Air would be a better choice for my current needs.

    You were saying you wanted to replace a 2008 MBP with an Air but wouldn't buy a fanless Air because it's not a MBP replacement but would buy an Air like the current model. Assuming it's still an Intel chip they use then there shouldn't be a huge difference between the two design routes. Cutting the TDP in half doesn't always cut the performance in half. If it was 70% at 7.5W and 100% at 15W, in everyday use the performance difference would be unnoticeable, especially if it doesn't drop significantly from the previous model.
    wizard69 wrote: »
    In a nut shell Air has been successful due to Apples ability to dramatically increase performance of the platform. Putting a 15 watt Broadwell in the machine just continue the trend and no it doesn't make it a MBP in any shape or form.

    The performance increased dramatically moving from the Core 2 series to the Core i series but not much in the Core i series. Between 2010-2014, the processor models are all around 70-100% of each other. Recent years have not increased much at all. GPU power has gone up but it's still way behind the MBP:

    http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-3000.37948.0.html
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000.69168.0.html
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-5000.91978.0.html

    Fanless is a coming trend that all laptop manufacturers will want to follow, maybe not exclusively but those will be the models they promote:

    http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/5-trends-set-to-shape-computing-in-2015-1278687

    If the performance stays at a reasonable level, people will buy them all the same because of a new design or Retina display.
  • Reply 112 of 125
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

     

    well guess what it's already flying. I've seen a lot of surfaces and other 2in1 actually.

     

    People said that about phablets too. People kept drinking koolaid here with all the 640 K ought to be enough for anybody stuff and by that I mean 4" oh that's good enough for anyone crowd.  Well guess what my eyes are bad and it never cut it. It's why I went Droid at first, that plus Google Navigation actually. Once I discovered all the other stuff like voice recognition which it had years before Siri and is still more useful, I was hooked.   Point is, my bet is there is a market for 2in1. Is it big enough for Apple to enter? I don't know.  I think users will really start to want and even expect it though, just like bigger phone screens. If Apple waits too long with an offering it will "look bad" and actually flip the tables (maybe it already has) where Apple looks lame and MS looks cool with all their innovating. And I say that seriously. The ads make MacBook Air look stupid. Brilliant ads. Same with Galaxy. Win 8 sucks but the 2in1s are shaping up and all they need is Windows 10 or whatever to not suck. Well that'll take a year or two so if Apple gets a move on maybe they can be there when the party starts. mark it, my prediction is they'll become a category just like tablets and I give it a 75% chance Apple releases one. Maybe not keep it but at least release a first rev.

     

    macbook air? Hopefully comes out soon. Hopefully more RAM too. And speakers you can here everywhere not just a library. :D


     

    I would serious consider buying a Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga, not the IdeaPad version but the business model version. Awesome laptop for the price and functionality. I wanted a mid-tier laptop to use with Linux, really needed something where I could switch off EFI and just use legacy mode. I was just going to grab a Lenovo ThinkPad T440 when I came across the ThinkPad Yoga 12.5. Things amazing and I would defiantly grab one over before I would a MacBook Air 13". Built quality is impeccable, runs everything, even OSX, everything works out of the box, Linux, Solaris, everything. Has a very responsive touchscreen and also has a Wacom digitizer, folds back 360 degrees which is great when jotting down stuff or surfing. Has a normal SATA 2.5, so buying a bigger SSD in the future is cheap and easy to do. Again construction is bullet proof, when you fold it back into laptop mode, the keys lock in place and become flat with the chassis so you don't get the weird jiggling feeling you do with the Yoga. The new 14" version even comes with a dedicated GPU, 2GB Nvidia 840GTX. A must look see before you buy a new laptop.

     

     

     

     

    image

    The New 14" 2015 also comes with the Wacom pen, the review is for the 2014 model.

    image

  • Reply 113 of 125
    relic wrote: »
    I would serious consider buying a Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga, not the IdeaPad version but the business model version... runs everything, even OSX, everything works out of the box...

    Why do I not believe this? Might make an okay Hackintosh, dunno, but wouldn't consider this "out of the box."

    Crap resolution display too.

    You can get a new in box 13.3" Retina MBP for less right now.
  • Reply 114 of 125
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    andyapple wrote: »
    Why do I not believe this? Might make an okay Hackintosh, dunno, but wouldn't consider this "out of the box."

    Crap resolution display too.

    You can get a new in box 13.3" Retina MBP for less right now.

    Don't forget a slow drive.
  • Reply 115 of 125
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by andyapple View Post





    Why do I not believe this? Might make an okay Hackintosh, dunno, but wouldn't consider this "out of the box."



    Crap resolution display too.



    You can get a new in box 13.3" Retina MBP for less right now.

    It's 1080P with 500  Nits of brightness, the display is awesome, it's only a 12.5" display, 2k is a waste, you can still get one though if you want it, the new 2015 model can be ordered with a 3K display like the Yoga 3. I'm not sure what out of the box means, yes, you do have to install OSX manually but all of the hardware is supported so it's fairly easy to do, took me about an hour to do. I'm now running OSX, Solaris, Linux Mint, Windows 8 and Android x86. It's a 512GB SSD drive, plenty of space for so many OS's. Android actually runs amazingly on it, I had to change the DPI though as everything looked a little too big. I've been bitten with the touchscreen bug, I no longer want a computer device unless it has it, in the case of the ThinkPad Yoga, it came with a Wacom Stylus as well, more the merrier. I have a new Mac Pro so I didn't want another Apple computer like MacBook Pro, I really wantedsomething that ran Unix more than anything.

  • Reply 116 of 125
    chiachia Posts: 714member

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

    so I didn't want another Apple computer like MacBook Pro, I really wantedsomething that ran Unix more than anything.


     

    Just what are you talking about?

     

    OS X is a certified UNIX so no problems there:





    Company Name: Apple Inc.


    Product Name: OS X version 10.10 Yosemite 

    Environment: on Intel-based Mac computers

    Registered on: 24-Sep-2014



  • Reply 117 of 125
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Reply 118 of 125
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

     

     

    Just what are you talking about?

     

    OS X is a certified UNIX so no problems there:


    Thank you, I know but I  want to use Solaris.

  • Reply 119 of 125
    relic wrote: »
    Thank you, I know but I  want to use Solaris.

    1) The wording in your statement doesn't indicate that you knew that.

    2) What does Solaris offer you that the UNIX certification in Mac OS X does not?
  • Reply 120 of 125
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    1) The wording in your statement doesn't indicate that you knew that.



    2) What does Solaris offer you that the UNIX certification in Mac OS X does not?

     

    Well I did, I'm not a moron, I was using NextStep way before Apple got their grubby hands on it after the BeOS deal fell through and really, I've told enough stories about me using Solaris, SGI Workstations and Servers that I'm surprised you even thought for a second that I didn't know. The Unix certification doesn't really mean anything to me though. So why Solaris, well basically I'm just not a fan of BSD, I'm just used to a certain way, the Solaris way, BSD's system layout is just strange, especially OSX's, then there is that archaic file-system Apple is still using (it's not case sensitive, HELLO.txt and hello.txt are the same file name according to OSX), I would much more prefer using ZFS, OSX is also missing a lot of current libraries, utilities and CLI commands and lastly I really don't want to use a micro-kernel, getting third party kernel extensions to work well under OSX is such a pain and I would have to do a lot work to get it close to the feature set that Solaris 11.2 has integrated into it's monolithic kernel design, it's also adding complexity, insta,abilities, lag and basically negating the design philosophy behind the Micro-Kernel. Yes, unfortunately I would have to modify the KerneI as I just recently purchased a  pre-owned, Sun/Sparc Blade system from eBay for next to nothing and I need a native Solaris system, thing is brilliant has 12 separate computing modules or Blades, each with 24GB RAM, a 72GB 15,000 RPM SAS drive and a UltraSparc T3 with 16 Cores and 128 Threads, 1.4Ghz, 6MB L2 Cache, running Solaris 11.2. Their 2 way Blade modules but only contain 1 CPU per, I'll purchase more CPis U's as they  they become available, I've seen them pop up for as liup mttle as 75 per CPU.  Anyway, I've always used Sun as my server of choice for home, with eBay, I can afford to pick up some really crazy systems. The problem is these things are expensive to run, they suck power up like a Republican in November, the Blade system however has a much lower power requirement and can be turned on and off according to it's work load, during the day when I'm just serving files I could just have one up and running, when I'm rendering or playing with my cluster, I can than rlly push those soon to have 384 CPU cores all running to do my bidding.

     

    Even though my new Mac Pro is technically a Unix box, when I want or need to use Unix, I always fire-up my Solaris Sparc Workstation or SGI Tezro, my Mac, well that runs runs Mac OS with full multitasking, I can no longer pause the entire system by holding down mouse button. Apple spent so long trying to hide those underpinnings from us that I just gave up. The ThinkPad Yoga makes a great mobile Solaris Workstation, just what I wanted. Plus OSX as stricty as a BSD system, well, it's not very good, striclty talking about the Unix stuff here, GUI side is perfect. As I said above, compare it to like FreeBSD or OpenBSD, Darwin is missing quite a lot, at least enough where not that many people would actually want to say install Gnome and start using it a their daily driver.

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