I think this has merit, if only because a 16Gb iPhone is nearly unusable. OK, that's a bit of hyperbole but the way any *reasonable* person would use the phone is to install apps and store photos and music. You really can't do much of that on a 16Gb iPhone running iOS8 before it runs out of space. Apple should not even be selling 16Gb models; they should start at 32Gb.
I owned a 16 GB iPhone 5 before upgrading to a 64 GB 6. To say it was nearly unusable goes way beyond hyperbole. It worked just fine.
Of course, there were times when I had to delete stuff to free up storage (OTA iOS 8 update springs to mind), but I managed. What do you expect from a device with the least amount of storage you can get?
In any case, this isn't relevant to the case. What's relevant is the fact that the entire electronics industry has marketed devices this way from the beginning.
I think this has merit, if only because a 16Gb iPhone is nearly unusable. OK, that's a bit of hyperbole but the way any *reasonable* person would use the phone is to install apps and store photos and music. You really can't do much of that on a 16Gb iPhone running iOS8 before it runs out of space. Apple should not even be selling 16Gb models; they should start at 32Gb.
Talk for yourself!
We have 7000 iPhones supplied by my employer where I work, allmost all 16GB. This is not considered a problem, and a very tiny amount of our employees take opportunity of an offer to pay a modest amount out of their own pocket for a larger memory.
There are members of my family who have 16GB iPhones who have more space than they need. Different people have different needs. Sue yourself for not reading the specs or not using the tools Apple provides for determining how much storage you need. This is another in a long history of money grabs by lawyers who lack ethics.
Why can't corporate culture stick to honest business practices or has that become an oxymoron? This is like the old days when defining the viewable space on a monitor required higher math skills than those taught in grad school.
A lawsuit makes a claim for damages. How are these people damaged. They can't carry as many songs, photos or videos around with them? How would you compensate for this. You could give these two a new iPhone with 64GB of storage to drop the suit. i don't really see any real damage here. Maybe they could pay for these two to take a math class.
Talk for yourself!
We have 7000 iPhones supplied by my employer where I work, allmost all 16GB. This is not considered a problem, and a very tiny amount of our employees take opportunity of an offer to pay a modest amount out of their own pocket for a larger memory.
I always point this out to people, corporations and schools really don't need the extra space.
Though my dads company bought 32GB 5S's instead of 16, which I thought was curious. This was before the 6 came out.
It does do one thing different: make insane amounts of money.
I think it's the oddest thing that we have polysemes for two different, but similar scientific systems of measurement. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I try to use *bibytes for BASE-2 and *gabytes for BASE-10. The IEC standard for binary prefixes is both simple and clear.
As I said before "and it may end of costing them." I think the lawsuit is overblown, but Apple should have been/should be more forthcoming. It's the right thing to do.
No it’s not the “right” thing to do. Reasonably intelligent people understand the situation. It’s the idiots, their lawyers, and especially California laws who try to get something for nothing. Why else do you think there are so many warning labels on a ladder? Why do consumers have to be warned they shouldn’t stuff in their ears? Why do we have the Darwin Awards? I for one am tired of your ilk always coming up with reasons to blame a corporation for some little thing an intelligent person would find common sense in.
Holy shit. Didn't Surface tablet have like 50% of advertised storage as actually usable space? I don't recall Microsoft being sued, that was quite a bit more aggregious.
The class-action lawsuit states that Orshan owned two iPhone 5s units, as well as two iPads, all with 16 gigabytes of storage that were upgraded to iOS 8. Endara is also said to own a 16-gigabyte iPhone 6 that came with iOS 8 preinstalled.
Why would this person keep buying 16GB iOS devices if they are a problem? Clearly they know that storage space is an issue they keep bumping into. Why aren't they buying the next storage tier up?
As for the overall merit of this case, even though it's obvious to us techies that the OS is going to take up some of the space, along with overhead for the filesystem and the advertised space in GB vs GiB, it's not obvious at all to most people. I think it would be a good idea for manufacturers to talk about their device storage in more user accessible terms. For example, the original iPod was advertised as a 1000 songs in your pocket. That's pretty easy to understand, even if you know nothing about tech.
Another thing that Apple could do is to have a separate chunk of storage for the OS -- another flash chip perhaps, or a larger capacity chip (i.e, your 16GB iPhone would have 24GB of storage, with 8GB being reserved for the OS). Of course this adds cost, but it may be worth it depending on if they win or lose this suit. Plus it would make go a long way towards making the device storage easier to understand for average users.
Beyond iOS, this suit has implications in the broader market as well. PCs and Macs both have an advertised drive size and overhead for the OS install (and in some cases, recovery partitions, bloatware apps, and other unwanted crap). If Apple can be successfully sued for not disclosing how much space the OS will take up out of an iOS device, will other companies be held responsible as well?
I always point this out to people, corporations and schools really don't need the extra space.
Neither do a lot of consumers who don't have any interest of a smartphone or tablet outside of internet-based usage. I know several that never use their Music or Video apps, and now that iOS 8 let's iMessage remove conversations older than x-days automatically they are saving even more space than before.
Holy shit. Didn't Surface tablet have like 50% of advertised storage as actually usable space? I don't recall Microsoft being sued, that was quite a bit more aggregious.
But hey- new day, new lawsuit,
Actually, I think MS did get sued for that. Though with Windows 8.1 it freed up several gigs of space.
I think this has merit, if only because a 16Gb iPhone is nearly unusable. OK, that's a bit of hyperbole but the way any *reasonable* person would use the phone is to install apps and store photos and music. You really can't do much of that on a 16Gb iPhone running iOS8 before it runs out of space. Apple should not even be selling 16Gb models; they should start at 32Gb.
I've been using iPhones since the 3G and have never maxed out my phone. I have an iPhone 6 64GB right now and it's at 14GB used. I take pictures and video when an occasion arises and I have 300 photos and 60 videos on my phone at the moment. 80 apps other than stock.
I think it's the oddest thing that we have polysemes for two different, but similar scientific systems of measurement. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I try to use *bibytes for BASE-2 and *gabytes for BASE-10. The IEC standard for binary prefixes is both simple and clear.
Agreed. I expect a big part of it is because the "__bibyte" ones just sound silly. But yes, someone screwed up way back when by applying the metric prefixes to the close-but-not-close-enough 1024 values.
Winning a lawsuit won't fix stupidity and consumer sloth.
So you are arguing that everyone should know the intricate tech details about how things they use everyday work down to minutia like filesystems and GB vs GiB? Do you even practice that yourself? What about outside of computers? Do you know exactly how your refrigerator works? Do you know all the details about how car works?
People shouldn't have to become experts in everything. Just because someone doesn't know as much as you do about their phone doesn't mean they are stupid or sloths. It just means they've spent time becoming experts in something else so that you don't have to know everything either.
Where is it said that Apple has to tell them the exact percentage of space used by the OS? All smartphones have a portion of storage used by the OS. Can you show me a company that is publishing how much space is available for personal content?
Additionally the Apple Store, Apple.com and many retailers allow for free returns in a limited time period. If this was really a concern for someone they could have found it out immediately after starting their iPhone/iPad/iPod the first time or asking an employee or looking in the settings of a display model. The two options for the plantiff are that this is a cash grab or they're of subhuman intelligence.
While I agree that the lawsuit is a bit silly, what the suit is primarily about is the amount of space lost when upgrading to the latest OS, although the plaintiff also bought a device with the latest OS. I also noticed that I lost a lot of storage space with the last major upgrade and was a bit pissed about it. I wound up removing some apps and music.
My bet is that the plaintiff is someone who never deletes anything from his phone. My son-in-law supports Apple devices in a corporation and he finds people who never, ever delete anything from any of their devices, including SPAM. They never clean up email chains, they never delete music even if they don't listen to it, they load tons of apps they don't use, etc. If that's how you manage your device, you're going to run out of space very quickly. (Back in the early 90's, I still remember advising a designer friend that she'll NEVER need anything larger than a 20MB hard disc. Quite foolish in retrospect, but that was before Photoshop and audio apps.) Hell, I manage my files pretty well and I've now used over 500GB on my Mac. Never thought that would happen. I also suspect that the plaintiff cheaped out and bought the smallest phone thinking, "I'm not giving the extra money to Apple" and was then pissed when he started running out of space.
The plaintiff does not appear to be looking at a cash grab. They appear to be asking for Apple to place appropriate notices in advertising and to compensate consumers who already bought the phone. It's the lawyers who are looking for the cash grab. They're the ones who make the money in any class-action lawsuit.
It's not a matter of "Where is it said that Apple has to tell them the exact percentage of space used by the OS?". It's a matter of whether the advertising fairly represented the capabilities of the device. It would be good if Apple (and other phone companies) put a disclaimer on their ads that stated something like "the OS will take up approximately 4GB of storage and future versions of the OS may take up more storage space".
Comments
I owned a 16 GB iPhone 5 before upgrading to a 64 GB 6. To say it was nearly unusable goes way beyond hyperbole. It worked just fine.
Of course, there were times when I had to delete stuff to free up storage (OTA iOS 8 update springs to mind), but I managed. What do you expect from a device with the least amount of storage you can get?
In any case, this isn't relevant to the case. What's relevant is the fact that the entire electronics industry has marketed devices this way from the beginning.
I think this has merit, if only because a 16Gb iPhone is nearly unusable. OK, that's a bit of hyperbole but the way any *reasonable* person would use the phone is to install apps and store photos and music. You really can't do much of that on a 16Gb iPhone running iOS8 before it runs out of space. Apple should not even be selling 16Gb models; they should start at 32Gb.
Talk for yourself!
We have 7000 iPhones supplied by my employer where I work, allmost all 16GB. This is not considered a problem, and a very tiny amount of our employees take opportunity of an offer to pay a modest amount out of their own pocket for a larger memory.
Why can't corporate culture stick to honest business practices or has that become an oxymoron? This is like the old days when defining the viewable space on a monitor required higher math skills than those taught in grad school.
I always point this out to people, corporations and schools really don't need the extra space.
Though my dads company bought 32GB 5S's instead of 16, which I thought was curious. This was before the 6 came out.
I think it's the oddest thing that we have polysemes for two different, but similar scientific systems of measurement. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I try to use *bibytes for BASE-2 and *gabytes for BASE-10. The IEC standard for binary prefixes is both simple and clear.
Any excuse for a lawsuit, eh? Crybabies and ambulance chasers everywhere.
I'm not defending the lawsuit. But do I think they have a point and that Apple should be more forthright? Yes.
The fact that everyone else is as bad a Apple (or usually much worse) doesn't change the point.
Originally Posted by malax
As I said before "and it may end of costing them." I think the lawsuit is overblown, but Apple should have been/should be more forthcoming. It's the right thing to do.
No it’s not the “right” thing to do. Reasonably intelligent people understand the situation. It’s the idiots, their lawyers, and especially California laws who try to get something for nothing. Why else do you think there are so many warning labels on a ladder? Why do consumers have to be warned they shouldn’t stuff in their ears? Why do we have the Darwin Awards? I for one am tired of your ilk always coming up with reasons to blame a corporation for some little thing an intelligent person would find common sense in.
But hey- new day, new lawsuit,
Winning a lawsuit won't fix stupidity and consumer sloth.
Why would this person keep buying 16GB iOS devices if they are a problem? Clearly they know that storage space is an issue they keep bumping into. Why aren't they buying the next storage tier up?
As for the overall merit of this case, even though it's obvious to us techies that the OS is going to take up some of the space, along with overhead for the filesystem and the advertised space in GB vs GiB, it's not obvious at all to most people. I think it would be a good idea for manufacturers to talk about their device storage in more user accessible terms. For example, the original iPod was advertised as a 1000 songs in your pocket. That's pretty easy to understand, even if you know nothing about tech.
Another thing that Apple could do is to have a separate chunk of storage for the OS -- another flash chip perhaps, or a larger capacity chip (i.e, your 16GB iPhone would have 24GB of storage, with 8GB being reserved for the OS). Of course this adds cost, but it may be worth it depending on if they win or lose this suit. Plus it would make go a long way towards making the device storage easier to understand for average users.
Beyond iOS, this suit has implications in the broader market as well. PCs and Macs both have an advertised drive size and overhead for the OS install (and in some cases, recovery partitions, bloatware apps, and other unwanted crap). If Apple can be successfully sued for not disclosing how much space the OS will take up out of an iOS device, will other companies be held responsible as well?
Neither do a lot of consumers who don't have any interest of a smartphone or tablet outside of internet-based usage. I know several that never use their Music or Video apps, and now that iOS 8 let's iMessage remove conversations older than x-days automatically they are saving even more space than before.
Actually, I think MS did get sued for that. Though with Windows 8.1 it freed up several gigs of space.
I think it's the oddest thing that we have polysemes for two different, but similar scientific systems of measurement. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I try to use *bibytes for BASE-2 and *gabytes for BASE-10. The IEC standard for binary prefixes is both simple and clear.
Agreed. I expect a big part of it is because the "__bibyte" ones just sound silly. But yes, someone screwed up way back when by applying the metric prefixes to the close-but-not-close-enough 1024 values.
What's their specific point about iOS 8 that isn't a point in iOS 7?
Winning a lawsuit won't fix stupidity and consumer sloth.
So you are arguing that everyone should know the intricate tech details about how things they use everyday work down to minutia like filesystems and GB vs GiB? Do you even practice that yourself? What about outside of computers? Do you know exactly how your refrigerator works? Do you know all the details about how car works?
People shouldn't have to become experts in everything. Just because someone doesn't know as much as you do about their phone doesn't mean they are stupid or sloths. It just means they've spent time becoming experts in something else so that you don't have to know everything either.
Where is it said that Apple has to tell them the exact percentage of space used by the OS? All smartphones have a portion of storage used by the OS. Can you show me a company that is publishing how much space is available for personal content?
Additionally the Apple Store, Apple.com and many retailers allow for free returns in a limited time period. If this was really a concern for someone they could have found it out immediately after starting their iPhone/iPad/iPod the first time or asking an employee or looking in the settings of a display model. The two options for the plantiff are that this is a cash grab or they're of subhuman intelligence.
While I agree that the lawsuit is a bit silly, what the suit is primarily about is the amount of space lost when upgrading to the latest OS, although the plaintiff also bought a device with the latest OS. I also noticed that I lost a lot of storage space with the last major upgrade and was a bit pissed about it. I wound up removing some apps and music.
My bet is that the plaintiff is someone who never deletes anything from his phone. My son-in-law supports Apple devices in a corporation and he finds people who never, ever delete anything from any of their devices, including SPAM. They never clean up email chains, they never delete music even if they don't listen to it, they load tons of apps they don't use, etc. If that's how you manage your device, you're going to run out of space very quickly. (Back in the early 90's, I still remember advising a designer friend that she'll NEVER need anything larger than a 20MB hard disc. Quite foolish in retrospect, but that was before Photoshop and audio apps.) Hell, I manage my files pretty well and I've now used over 500GB on my Mac. Never thought that would happen. I also suspect that the plaintiff cheaped out and bought the smallest phone thinking, "I'm not giving the extra money to Apple" and was then pissed when he started running out of space.
The plaintiff does not appear to be looking at a cash grab. They appear to be asking for Apple to place appropriate notices in advertising and to compensate consumers who already bought the phone. It's the lawyers who are looking for the cash grab. They're the ones who make the money in any class-action lawsuit.
It's not a matter of "Where is it said that Apple has to tell them the exact percentage of space used by the OS?". It's a matter of whether the advertising fairly represented the capabilities of the device. It would be good if Apple (and other phone companies) put a disclaimer on their ads that stated something like "the OS will take up approximately 4GB of storage and future versions of the OS may take up more storage space".
No it's not. They fucking tell you they are advertising a BASE-10 capacity.