Once again, I hit it right out of the ballpark in the previous thread about that dumb Sony movie, and this current Islamic terrorist massacre of French people only reinforces what I previously wrote.
I mocked the people who went to see the Sony movie in the name of standing up for freedom of speech. My, how brave those people were! Give me a break. Those people weren't brave at all. They were just lemmings and there was never any real danger at all to any of them.
I rarely have anything positive to say about the French, but these French cartoonists were without a doubt extremely brave, because they've been mocking Islam and a number of other subjects for many years now! That takes true balls, because everybody knows that Islam has a higher number of violent lunatics acting out on behalf of their religion than any other religion on the planet.
These terrorists are what represents Islam, and Islam is not a peaceful religion. That is a massive lie repeated by many, including US Presidents. Don't these people realize how stupid they sound, when there is slaughtering going on every single day in the name of Islam?
The murderous actions of these Allah Akbhar screaming lunatics and degenerates only strengthens the civilized world's response to these sixth century savages. There will be far more mohammed cartoons printed everywhere now, and there is nothing that any terrorists can do to stop it.
I drew my own mohammed cartoon some years ago, when the cartoon controversy raged, and it's time for me to get out my pen and paper again, because I am going to draw a new cartoon, and it will be my intention to offend as many of those people as I can. The more, the better.
This is war, and my battle plan is ready. They are going to lose so badly. Bring it on.
What people need to understand, is that 99.999% of the world's Muslims share the same disgust at this than everyone else- and even more so, since these nutcases claim to share the same religion.
What a massive lie.
99.999% of the world's Muslims do not share the same disgust. It's nowhere near 99%.
There is significant support for Islamic terrorism worldwide. 99.999% my ass. There are millions and millions of them that are evil.
I'm a practising Muslim, and I completely agree with you. The people who perpetrated this are despicable cockroaches, and there is absolutely no justification or excuse for their murderous crimes. What people need to understand, is that 99.999% of the world's Muslims share the same disgust at this than everyone else- and even more so, since these nutcases claim to share the same religion.
I wish that was true, but all I see from these countries are people or in the streets cheering that it was a good thing. Having a parade out in the streets. That's was clear when 9/11 happened and it's done all the time. I don't see any Muslims condemning it. I'm sure there are a few, in countries like the U.S..
It's no longer the 17th century. Tune to grow up and join the modern world. I don't think it'll change anytime soon. They'll continue to live like in the past, except with guns and bombs. Most of the world would be better off if they were just fenced in. Let them continue to kill each other off tell the end of time.
Right, educate them. Shake your finger at them and tell them they are being naughty. Let's meditate and let them see the errors of their ways. Great idea!
These muslims know that the "politically correct" within democratic societies will navel gaze forever. This is what they are counting on to destroy democracy around the world unless those of us who value free speech and free thought unite to exterminate these pigs. Respond to a war as a war. A war is not kind or gentle. But this is war and its about time we recognized it before it's too late.
Which is why western nations try to tactically kill or capture these extremists. There is no country to fight, just loosely connected groups of extremists. Also need to spend more on education and close those damn madrasahs (spelling?)
I'm sure many will disagree, but I've read the Koran and yes, I think Islam is a violent religion. With Islam, all non muslims are called unbelievers or infidels. Maybe I misunderstood it when I read it, but there are many verses that say kill the infidels.
I am a Muslim raised and went to school in the Middle East. We were never ever taught that the Quran says we should go around killing people (Muslim or non-muslim). You might have read the words but you didn't understand the context or the situation in which these words were said.
By the way, these scums are killing more Muslims than non-Muslims everyday.
My family has friends in Sweden... the capitulation to religious extremists over the past 15 years is revolting. What have you seen?
Honestly, it saddens me that so many fellow liberals who believe in women's rights, gay rights, freedom of speech, etc. COMPLETELY abandon their liberal values when it comes to Islam.
I guess people are too caught up watching sports or TMZ to learn about what's really going on in the world. Islam is an ideology. It's not a "race" and people can't be branded "racist" for calling out a fascist ideology.
There are certain "no-go zones", where the police and fire trucks are afraid to go into. The Swedes are basically appeasing cowards, and I can't say that I feel all that sorry for them. The world hasn't seen more pathetic appeasement happening since Chamberlain's days.
Sweden is also not a democratic society as they have frozen out the Sweden Democrats, which gained a significant amount of votes. They brandish those people who are skeptical to immigration as racists, and they shut down their freedom of speech. Goebbels would be very proud of Sweden's liberals.
I am a Muslim raised and went to school in the Middle East. We were never ever taught that the Quran says we should go around killing people (Muslim or non-muslim). You might have read the words but you didn't understand the context or the situation in which these words were said.
By the way, these scums are killing more Muslims than non-Muslims everyday.
You do make a great point that Muslims kill more Muslims than non-Muslims, but that goes back to my point that I believe Islam is a violent religion. I'm not just talking about the terrorists either. Look at the abuse women suffer in all these countries under Sharia law. We are talking about 15 plus Muslim countries where women basically don't have any rights. In Pakistan alone, over 1,000 women are murdered every year from Honor Killings. Who knows what the worldwide number is.
It's not a "race" and people can't be branded "racist" for calling out a fascist ideology.
That is true. I am 100% against all Muslim extremists. I don't care if they're white, black, brown or whatever. They are all equally bad, and very often the converts are the worst of them, as they obviously have mental issues and they often have something to prove.
Being called a racist, when the topic has nothing to do with race is a tactic used by confused liberals and terrorist supporters who attempt to shut down the debate, becuase they do not believe in free speech, just like the terrorists who killed those French people yesterday.
Nice try to dismiss my point by deflecting. Assuming you enjoying reading, since a debate on Intelligence Squared scares you...
Try reading some Hitchens, Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett or Ayaan Hirsi Ali's incredible book.
Sorry, but when you enter into a conversation with a banal and useless comment like "Not all muslims are terrorists" when discussing solidarity after an Islamic terrorist attack... informed people will pat you on the head and tell you to move along.
I swear, where are the liberals that stand for liberal values and against religious extremism...
By the way... saying that all Muslims are terrorists is just as banal.
By the way 2... did you actually make a point. I didn't see one.
Even on U.S. news that Swedish politician Geert Wilders is called "far-right" (translation: Ignore him) when he's pro-gay rights, pro-women's rights, etc. It's madness.
Just a minor correction: Geert Wilders is actually a Dutch politician. I like that guy, and I agree with many of his positions.
And yep, being called far-right is a common tactic especially utilized by those who are far-left. Fortunately, the corrupt, liberal media is losing influence every single day.
But interestingly Christianity has had many wars and massacres performed under its banner. Kings have been murdered for crossing the church. And beheadings were the norm.
None of which was advocated in the Bible. Christ didn't go around saying "yo, kill those folks if they disagree with you."
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery."
"If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.
If cases come before your courts that are too difficult for you to judge—whether bloodshed, lawsuits or assaults—take them to the place the Lord your God will choose. Go to the Levitical priests and to the judge who is in office at that time. Inquire of them and they will give you the verdict. You must act according to the decisions they give you at the place the Lord will choose. Be careful to do everything they instruct you to do. Act according to whatever they teach you and the decisions they give you. Do not turn aside from what they tell you, to the right or to the left. Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the Lord your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel. All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again."
"Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.""
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;"
These texts are all written by people who had a desire to control other people - large groups of poorly educated people millennia ago that they couldn't control by force, which is testament to the power that writing and ideas have over weapons. Lots of people have been killed as a result because words are open to interpretation.
Fortunately modern Christians are able to ignore more violent parts of the texts by excusing them as being limited to a particular time period because things like stoning are archaic forms of punishment. In Eastern countries, stoning is still used so there is not a more passive culture to balance with the texts. For Muslims that have integrated into Western society there is but there are still holdovers like honor killings and violent attacks for infidelity or disagreeable relationships.
Having a tolerant/liberal attitude towards others is what makes the problems go away. No one was ever killed because someone tolerated their ideas too much. It's intolerance/conservatism and rigidly following an unchanging ideology that causes the problems. It's the unwillingness to accept differences. That doesn't mean being tolerant of intolerant ideologies. It means promoting the idea of tolerance to people who are intolerant by nature.
On the topic of free speech, many people have come out promoting this but we don't really have free speech i.e speech without consequences including suppression. Someone can be sued or arrested for messages they send on twitter. A newspaper most likely wouldn't be allowed to print headlines like 'the country is full of n*rs, jews and gypsy immigrants, they should f* off back to where they came from' or 'kill all the gays'. That sort of thing would fall under hate speech and something would be done about it.
"The reason why fighting words are categorically excluded from the protection of the First Amendment is not that their content communicates any particular idea, but that their content embodies a particularly intolerable (and socially unnecessary) mode of expressing whatever idea the speaker wishes to convey. The Supreme Court embraced the idea that hate speech is permissible unless it will lead to imminent hate violence."
"In the United Kingdom, several statutes criminalize hate speech against several categories of persons. The statutes forbid communication which is hateful, threatening, abusive, or insulting and which targets a person on account of skin colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both."
"France prohibits by its penal code and by its press laws public and private communication which is defamatory or insulting, or which incites discrimination, hatred, or violence against a person or a group of persons on account of place of origin, ethnicity or lack thereof, nationality, race, specific religion, sex, sexual orientation, or handicap. The law prohibits declarations that justify or deny crimes against humanity, for example, the Holocaust."
As with religious texts, laws are similarly written to control large groups of people (with varying degrees of education) without the use of physical force. They act as pre-emptive conditioning. Children are taught the same way - they are conditioned to behave a certain way with words before they can do harm to themselves or others e.g don't go near the fire.
We can't have completely free speech because it allows people to use hateful speech, one example in the wikipedia article was the cross-burning on the lawn of a black family. It would also allow Muslim clerics to stand in the streets and proclaim death to all non-believers of Islam. It does allows Christians to picket funerals protesting homosexuality.
Killing should never be the result of hate speech but then amputation shouldn't be the result of theft either. The culture that fundamentalists come from promotes the notion of harsh punishment for minor crimes.
Western societies draw lines at content that we are prepared to tolerate. Those lines are too liberal for some Eastern cultures and with 1.6 billion followers of Islam (1 in 5 people on Earth), they're going to try to change that and a small portion with violence. That can't be allowed to happen.
Stephen Fry among others called to republish the cartoons, the magazine has ramped up publication for the next edition:
That thought had crossed my mind but the goal is to encourage peace and not war. Do we expect Muslims to be more tolerant towards more liberal Western society by doing this? They need more reasons to be tolerant, not fewer. This doesn't apply much to the murderers, they've made their life choice already and violated their own ideology by murdering a Muslim police officer. They shouldn't be allowed to act as representatives for 1.6b people nor should those billions of people be given reasons to passively support them.
People like to compete and when a member of a competing ideology makes an offensive move you retaliate (support, defense, offense), ignore (walk away) or accept defeat. Hebdo made multiple offensive moves, Muslim extremists retaliated by offense. 'Je suis charlie' is a form of support and defense of what the publisher did, republishing is further offense, defeat (accepting the killings as justified) is not an option. Walking away would probably be accepting that the cartoon material causes offense and not continuing to do it. That means making new judgements over what kind of speech is hateful and what isn't and what exemptions exist for a satirical context.
We know the goal, that's the easy part and that is to have an outcome that pleases everyone - promoting the feeling of freedom of expression while at the same time promoting the suppression of hate. Reaching that balance is not easy but as I say, the best way forward is to promote the benefits of tolerance rather than give people reason to justify their intolerance.
"Whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them"
There are messages of peace in the religious texts but they are mixed in with messages of oppression, sometimes in the same block of text. The parts (and religions) that people selectively adhere to are chosen because of a moral code that exists outside of the religion. No deity is responsible for these choices. Society has to define that moral code for the benefit of everyone in it. This involves diminishing the importance of religion or in general the idea that any information is unquestionable and promoting rational processing of information and access to it.
These radical Islamic scumbags need to be exterminated from the face of the Earth.
I read that these guys joined Al Qaeda after seeing what happened at Abu Ghraib. It would make the job of stopping terrorism a lot easier if we did less stuff to help create new radicals. Being more extreme ourselves only makes them more extreme. It's like fighting fire with gasoline.
I'm a practising Muslim, and I completely agree with you. The people who perpetrated this are despicable cockroaches, and there is absolutely no justification or excuse for their murderous crimes. What people need to understand, is that 99.999% of the world's Muslims share the same disgust at this than everyone else- and even more so, since these nutcases claim to share the same religion.
Which is exactly why I said "Radical". I have no problem with ANYONE's religion. What I do have an issue with are idiotic zellots corrupting religion & religious symbols (the swastika being a PRIME example) in the name of their religion.
Islam isn't the problem. Idiotic assholes corrupting Islam are.
Swing and a miss. I never said they were all terrorists. I said coming to the discussion, about people slaughtered by Islamic terrorists, with that banal statement is useless. On AppleInsider I at least hoped there would be liberals with more interesting things to say.
Here's my point: Do your own research. Maybe start with some facts like Googling what Muslims ACTUALLY believe "muslim beliefs poll survey" or something like that... they've recently done extensive ones. You may find something more interesting to bring to the table than "...there are thousands of Muslims who are peaceful."
I've given you plenty of deliberately vague directions (debates, books, etc) to educate yourself. Feel free to ignore them out of spite. Zzzzzz
Did you even read the comment that prompted my reply?
From that one comment you have deduced that I am uneducated, that you somehow or other know more than I do about this situation?
Did you even see the other two comments I made before that one? About exterminating the extremists... about turning their mother countries to glass.
It's about time you realize that my reference was a simple statement to show that there are millions of peaceful Muslims but that all countries have to eradicate the extremists or they will control all of their countrymen.
For f*cks sake... we learned all that shit in grade school with Lord of the Flies.
Comments
Once again, I hit it right out of the ballpark in the previous thread about that dumb Sony movie, and this current Islamic terrorist massacre of French people only reinforces what I previously wrote.
I mocked the people who went to see the Sony movie in the name of standing up for freedom of speech. My, how brave those people were!
Give me a break. Those people weren't brave at all. They were just lemmings and there was never any real danger at all to any of them.
I rarely have anything positive to say about the French, but these French cartoonists were without a doubt extremely brave, because they've been mocking Islam and a number of other subjects for many years now! That takes true balls, because everybody knows that Islam has a higher number of violent lunatics acting out on behalf of their religion than any other religion on the planet.
These terrorists are what represents Islam, and Islam is not a peaceful religion. That is a massive lie repeated by many, including US Presidents. Don't these people realize how stupid they sound, when there is slaughtering going on every single day in the name of Islam?
The murderous actions of these Allah Akbhar screaming lunatics and degenerates only strengthens the civilized world's response to these sixth century savages. There will be far more mohammed cartoons printed everywhere now, and there is nothing that any terrorists can do to stop it.
I drew my own mohammed cartoon some years ago, when the cartoon controversy raged, and it's time for me to get out my pen and paper again, because I am going to draw a new cartoon, and it will be my intention to offend as many of those people as I can. The more, the better.
This is war, and my battle plan is ready. They are going to lose so badly. Bring it on.
Now you want us to believe you're human? That crosses the line¡
What people need to understand, is that 99.999% of the world's Muslims share the same disgust at this than everyone else- and even more so, since these nutcases claim to share the same religion.
What a massive lie.
99.999% of the world's Muslims do not share the same disgust. It's nowhere near 99%.
There is significant support for Islamic terrorism worldwide. 99.999% my ass. There are millions and millions of them that are evil.
I wish that was true, but all I see from these countries are people or in the streets cheering that it was a good thing. Having a parade out in the streets. That's was clear when 9/11 happened and it's done all the time. I don't see any Muslims condemning it. I'm sure there are a few, in countries like the U.S..
It's no longer the 17th century. Tune to grow up and join the modern world. I don't think it'll change anytime soon. They'll continue to live like in the past, except with guns and bombs. Most of the world would be better off if they were just fenced in. Let them continue to kill each other off tell the end of time.
Do you have any idea what's going on in many European countries (especially Sweden) when it comes to this ideology?
I do. I am extremely well informed when it comes to this topic. I've been to Sweden before also a few times.
Which is why western nations try to tactically kill or capture these extremists. There is no country to fight, just loosely connected groups of extremists. Also need to spend more on education and close those damn madrasahs (spelling?)
I am a Muslim raised and went to school in the Middle East. We were never ever taught that the Quran says we should go around killing people (Muslim or non-muslim). You might have read the words but you didn't understand the context or the situation in which these words were said.
By the way, these scums are killing more Muslims than non-Muslims everyday.
My family has friends in Sweden... the capitulation to religious extremists over the past 15 years is revolting. What have you seen?
Honestly, it saddens me that so many fellow liberals who believe in women's rights, gay rights, freedom of speech, etc. COMPLETELY abandon their liberal values when it comes to Islam.
I guess people are too caught up watching sports or TMZ to learn about what's really going on in the world. Islam is an ideology. It's not a "race" and people can't be branded "racist" for calling out a fascist ideology.
There are certain "no-go zones", where the police and fire trucks are afraid to go into. The Swedes are basically appeasing cowards, and I can't say that I feel all that sorry for them. The world hasn't seen more pathetic appeasement happening since Chamberlain's days.
Sweden is also not a democratic society as they have frozen out the Sweden Democrats, which gained a significant amount of votes. They brandish those people who are skeptical to immigration as racists, and they shut down their freedom of speech. Goebbels would be very proud of Sweden's liberals.
I am a Muslim raised and went to school in the Middle East. We were never ever taught that the Quran says we should go around killing people (Muslim or non-muslim). You might have read the words but you didn't understand the context or the situation in which these words were said.
By the way, these scums are killing more Muslims than non-Muslims everyday.
You do make a great point that Muslims kill more Muslims than non-Muslims, but that goes back to my point that I believe Islam is a violent religion. I'm not just talking about the terrorists either. Look at the abuse women suffer in all these countries under Sharia law. We are talking about 15 plus Muslim countries where women basically don't have any rights. In Pakistan alone, over 1,000 women are murdered every year from Honor Killings. Who knows what the worldwide number is.
Low-information/banal comment.
What do you consider "peaceful"? Are those who don't commit acts but who support the actions of violence, peaceful?
Do you have any idea what's going on in many European countries (especially Sweden) when it comes to this ideology?
Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and many, many other muslims would desperately like people, ESPECIALLY liberals, to wake up.
Please educate yourself.
Youtube videos. Oh for f*cks sake. It's on the internet so it must be true.
Your videos say exactly the same thing as what I said... if you were to really think about it.
exactly, Muslims
have been pure evil from the beginning of time to date!
It's not a "race" and people can't be branded "racist" for calling out a fascist ideology.
That is true. I am 100% against all Muslim extremists. I don't care if they're white, black, brown or whatever. They are all equally bad, and very often the converts are the worst of them, as they obviously have mental issues and they often have something to prove.
Being called a racist, when the topic has nothing to do with race is a tactic used by confused liberals and terrorist supporters who attempt to shut down the debate, becuase they do not believe in free speech, just like the terrorists who killed those French people yesterday.
Nice try to dismiss my point by deflecting. Assuming you enjoying reading, since a debate on Intelligence Squared scares you...
Try reading some Hitchens, Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett or Ayaan Hirsi Ali's incredible book.
Sorry, but when you enter into a conversation with a banal and useless comment like "Not all muslims are terrorists" when discussing solidarity after an Islamic terrorist attack... informed people will pat you on the head and tell you to move along.
I swear, where are the liberals that stand for liberal values and against religious extremism...
By the way... saying that all Muslims are terrorists is just as banal.
By the way 2... did you actually make a point. I didn't see one.
I QUESTION ALL GODS. Je suit Charlie!
Well, at least now I know whose arrogance clouds their comprehension so much that they can't even follow a two page thread. lol
Even on U.S. news that Swedish politician Geert Wilders is called "far-right" (translation: Ignore him) when he's pro-gay rights, pro-women's rights, etc. It's madness.
Just a minor correction: Geert Wilders is actually a Dutch politician. I like that guy, and I agree with many of his positions.
And yep, being called far-right is a common tactic especially utilized by those who are far-left. Fortunately, the corrupt, liberal media is losing influence every single day.
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13
"If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.
If cases come before your courts that are too difficult for you to judge—whether bloodshed, lawsuits or assaults—take them to the place the Lord your God will choose. Go to the Levitical priests and to the judge who is in office at that time. Inquire of them and they will give you the verdict. You must act according to the decisions they give you at the place the Lord will choose. Be careful to do everything they instruct you to do. Act according to whatever they teach you and the decisions they give you. Do not turn aside from what they tell you, to the right or to the left. Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the Lord your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel. All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+17
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
"Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.""
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.012
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;"
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.033
These texts are all written by people who had a desire to control other people - large groups of poorly educated people millennia ago that they couldn't control by force, which is testament to the power that writing and ideas have over weapons. Lots of people have been killed as a result because words are open to interpretation.
Fortunately modern Christians are able to ignore more violent parts of the texts by excusing them as being limited to a particular time period because things like stoning are archaic forms of punishment. In Eastern countries, stoning is still used so there is not a more passive culture to balance with the texts. For Muslims that have integrated into Western society there is but there are still holdovers like honor killings and violent attacks for infidelity or disagreeable relationships.
Having a tolerant/liberal attitude towards others is what makes the problems go away. No one was ever killed because someone tolerated their ideas too much. It's intolerance/conservatism and rigidly following an unchanging ideology that causes the problems. It's the unwillingness to accept differences. That doesn't mean being tolerant of intolerant ideologies. It means promoting the idea of tolerance to people who are intolerant by nature.
On the topic of free speech, many people have come out promoting this but we don't really have free speech i.e speech without consequences including suppression. Someone can be sued or arrested for messages they send on twitter. A newspaper most likely wouldn't be allowed to print headlines like 'the country is full of n*rs, jews and gypsy immigrants, they should f* off back to where they came from' or 'kill all the gays'. That sort of thing would fall under hate speech and something would be done about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
"The reason why fighting words are categorically excluded from the protection of the First Amendment is not that their content communicates any particular idea, but that their content embodies a particularly intolerable (and socially unnecessary) mode of expressing whatever idea the speaker wishes to convey. The Supreme Court embraced the idea that hate speech is permissible unless it will lead to imminent hate violence."
"In the United Kingdom, several statutes criminalize hate speech against several categories of persons. The statutes forbid communication which is hateful, threatening, abusive, or insulting and which targets a person on account of skin colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both."
"France prohibits by its penal code and by its press laws public and private communication which is defamatory or insulting, or which incites discrimination, hatred, or violence against a person or a group of persons on account of place of origin, ethnicity or lack thereof, nationality, race, specific religion, sex, sexual orientation, or handicap. The law prohibits declarations that justify or deny crimes against humanity, for example, the Holocaust."
As with religious texts, laws are similarly written to control large groups of people (with varying degrees of education) without the use of physical force. They act as pre-emptive conditioning. Children are taught the same way - they are conditioned to behave a certain way with words before they can do harm to themselves or others e.g don't go near the fire.
We can't have completely free speech because it allows people to use hateful speech, one example in the wikipedia article was the cross-burning on the lawn of a black family. It would also allow Muslim clerics to stand in the streets and proclaim death to all non-believers of Islam. It does allows Christians to picket funerals protesting homosexuality.
Killing should never be the result of hate speech but then amputation shouldn't be the result of theft either. The culture that fundamentalists come from promotes the notion of harsh punishment for minor crimes.
Western societies draw lines at content that we are prepared to tolerate. Those lines are too liberal for some Eastern cultures and with 1.6 billion followers of Islam (1 in 5 people on Earth), they're going to try to change that and a small portion with violence. That can't be allowed to happen.
Stephen Fry among others called to republish the cartoons, the magazine has ramped up publication for the next edition:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/stephen-fry-calls-on-the-worlds-media-to-publish-charlie-hebdo-cartoons-9965449.html
That thought had crossed my mind but the goal is to encourage peace and not war. Do we expect Muslims to be more tolerant towards more liberal Western society by doing this? They need more reasons to be tolerant, not fewer. This doesn't apply much to the murderers, they've made their life choice already and violated their own ideology by murdering a Muslim police officer. They shouldn't be allowed to act as representatives for 1.6b people nor should those billions of people be given reasons to passively support them.
People like to compete and when a member of a competing ideology makes an offensive move you retaliate (support, defense, offense), ignore (walk away) or accept defeat. Hebdo made multiple offensive moves, Muslim extremists retaliated by offense. 'Je suis charlie' is a form of support and defense of what the publisher did, republishing is further offense, defeat (accepting the killings as justified) is not an option. Walking away would probably be accepting that the cartoon material causes offense and not continuing to do it. That means making new judgements over what kind of speech is hateful and what isn't and what exemptions exist for a satirical context.
http://gawker.com/5524983/cartoons-banned-by-apple-a-gallery/
We know the goal, that's the easy part and that is to have an outcome that pleases everyone - promoting the feeling of freedom of expression while at the same time promoting the suppression of hate. Reaching that balance is not easy but as I say, the best way forward is to promote the benefits of tolerance rather than give people reason to justify their intolerance.
"Whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them"
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7&version=ESV
There are messages of peace in the religious texts but they are mixed in with messages of oppression, sometimes in the same block of text. The parts (and religions) that people selectively adhere to are chosen because of a moral code that exists outside of the religion. No deity is responsible for these choices. Society has to define that moral code for the benefit of everyone in it. This involves diminishing the importance of religion or in general the idea that any information is unquestionable and promoting rational processing of information and access to it.
These radical Islamic scumbags need to be exterminated from the face of the Earth.
I read that these guys joined Al Qaeda after seeing what happened at Abu Ghraib. It would make the job of stopping terrorism a lot easier if we did less stuff to help create new radicals. Being more extreme ourselves only makes them more extreme. It's like fighting fire with gasoline.
I'm a practising Muslim, and I completely agree with you. The people who perpetrated this are despicable cockroaches, and there is absolutely no justification or excuse for their murderous crimes. What people need to understand, is that 99.999% of the world's Muslims share the same disgust at this than everyone else- and even more so, since these nutcases claim to share the same religion.
Which is exactly why I said "Radical". I have no problem with ANYONE's religion. What I do have an issue with are idiotic zellots corrupting religion & religious symbols (the swastika being a PRIME example) in the name of their religion.
Islam isn't the problem. Idiotic assholes corrupting Islam are.
Swing and a miss. I never said they were all terrorists. I said coming to the discussion, about people slaughtered by Islamic terrorists, with that banal statement is useless. On AppleInsider I at least hoped there would be liberals with more interesting things to say.
Here's my point: Do your own research. Maybe start with some facts like Googling what Muslims ACTUALLY believe "muslim beliefs poll survey" or something like that... they've recently done extensive ones. You may find something more interesting to bring to the table than "...there are thousands of Muslims who are peaceful."
I've given you plenty of deliberately vague directions (debates, books, etc) to educate yourself. Feel free to ignore them out of spite. Zzzzzz
Did you even read the comment that prompted my reply?
From that one comment you have deduced that I am uneducated, that you somehow or other know more than I do about this situation?
Did you even see the other two comments I made before that one? About exterminating the extremists... about turning their mother countries to glass.
It's about time you realize that my reference was a simple statement to show that there are millions of peaceful Muslims but that all countries have to eradicate the extremists or they will control all of their countrymen.
For f*cks sake... we learned all that shit in grade school with Lord of the Flies.