Corning takes shot at sapphire with 'Project Phire' ultra scratch-resistant glass

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 94
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post



    Apple was never going to use artificial sapphire as a standard part of the iPhone. Why? Because it makes not one iota of sense, the incredible extra difficulty of manufacture and usage and for what, a handful of people who demand completely over the top scratch resistance. Perhaps it was contemplated as special limited version that would charge extra, but even then I can't see Apple wanting or needing to bother with that level of pandering. Not when they are already selling 70 million phones a quarter.




    They use naturally occurring sapphire now? I've never heard that.

     

     

    He meant a sapphire composite. Pure sapphire would be too brittle.




    Synthetic sapphire in these applications is pure. Laminated, but the sapphire layers are pure. I don't think that's what he meant at all.

  • Reply 22 of 94
    solipsismy wrote: »
    What?! You do know sapphire has been on iPhones and iPads for years, and the soon to be released ?Watch? I don't know how you can it's a material not ready for prime time.

    Um... It talks about the watch right there in the article. You're not the only one that may have read it.

    Its use in some models of the watch -- a tiny screen device, tethered to the wrist (and hence less likely to be dropped), using apparently a method of laying it between glass that may be different from how Apple may have originally envisaged it -- does not mean it's ready for manufacturing prime time yet, on larger devices, sold at much larger volumes, with a greater risk of being dropped, produced at the same cost per square inch of display as in an iPhone or iPad.

    Unless you're suggesting that Apple's $578M investment in GTAT -- a non-trivial sum for an Apple investment -- was just for the watch.

    I have no doubt it'll get there, but I am guessing it's not ready for prime time yet.
  • Reply 23 of 94
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    I'm on my fifth iPhone and I've never had a single scratch on the screen, or the case for that matter. I've had other issues though and had a couple replacements over the years with Apple care+. I always keep my phone in my front pocket without anything else in there that might scratch it.

     

    For the most part, I've never used protective cases, just try to be careful. I did use a case for a couple weeks with the iPhone 5 but soon ditched it. Of course, I'm not the type of person who is using my iPhone nonstop either, so that could also explain the lack of mishaps. The only time I've dropped an iPhone was once when it was under the bed covers and then it accidentally fell onto the wood floor. Pretty minor. Thankfully no damage.

  • Reply 24 of 94
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    Um... It talks about the watch right there in the article. You're not the only one that may have read it.

    Its use in some models of the watch -- a tiny screen device, tethered to the wrist (and hence less likely to be dropped), using apparently a method of laying it between glass that may be different from how Apple may have originally envisaged it -- does not mean it's ready for manufacturing prime time yet, on larger devices, sold at much larger volumes, with a greater risk of being dropped, produced at the same cost per square inch of display as in an iPhone or iPad.

    Unless you're suggesting that Apple's $578M investment in GTAT -- a non-trivial sum for an Apple investment -- was just for the watch.

    I have no doubt it'll get there, but I am guessing it's not ready for prime time yet.

    1) I have no idea what Apple's short and long terms plans were and are for sapphire, but I do know they have been using sapphire for years and just just shipped multiple sapphire components in 74.5 million iPhones this past quarter. Sounds like they are doing pretty well to me.

    2) What's not ready for "prime time." You know they are using sapphire so why would you say it's not ready? If you are talking about iPhone, iPad or Mac displays I would check your sources as I don't think anyone but pie eyed analysts ever expected sapphire displays in 2014.
  • Reply 25 of 94
    solipsismy wrote: »

    I have no idea what Apple's short and long terms plans were and are for sapphire

    Me neither, but I am content to side with the overall assessment re sapphire of someone from a pretty solid company that is no slouch on innovation, and knows a thing or two about glass.
  • Reply 26 of 94
    mstone wrote: »
    I'm on my fifth iPhone and I've never had a single scratch on the screen, or the case for that matter. I've had other issues though and had a couple replacements over the years with Apple care+. I always keep my phone in my front pocket without anything else in there that might scratch it.

    For the most part, I've never used protective cases, just try to be careful. I did use a case for a couple weeks with the iPhone 5 but soon ditched it. Of course, I'm not the type of person who is using my iPhone nonstop either, so that could also explain the lack of mishaps. The only time I've dropped an iPhone was once when it was under the bed covers and then it accidentally fell onto the wood floor. Pretty minor. Thankfully no damage.

    I don't use protective covers either, and am generally super careful in the way I handle my iPhones, but all of mine, since 2007 through my few months-old 6, have ended up with a few (very minor, but nonetheless visible) scratches within months of ownership.
  • Reply 27 of 94
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,104member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post



    No. Sapphire is dead.



    Nope.

     

    Note that Apple continues to use sapphire in select components (camera lens cover, Touch ID sensor cover).

     

    Sapphire continues to be used in more long-standing applications like military purposes, supermarket scanner windows, and wristwatch crystals.

     

    GTAT manufactured equipment for making sapphire. They did not get involved in sapphire production themselves before Apple's investment. In a way, GTAT was the appliance manufacturer that built commercial ovens, but didn't run a bakery themselves.

     

    Apple's investment was an opportunity to get GTAT into the sapphire production business since the outlook on their existing businesses was rather bleak. GTAT failed to manufacture a single sapphire boule that made it into a shipping product, thus GTAT had zero impact on the overall sapphire market. They just ineffectively burned up hundreds of millions of Apple's dollars which is why GTAT is in bankruptcy.

     

    Sapphire use is likely to grow in the future, due to increased deployment of devices that need its features as well as improved manufacturing techniques that drive the cost lower. Remember, there was no sapphire smartphone component business in 2007.

     

    Where GTAT failed to innovate, likely some of their competitors will succeed in finding better ways to make sapphire. Things like improved light transmission in newer sapphire will probably encourage more use in photographic optics, where light transmission is at a premium. That's less important for a supermarket laser scanner.

  • Reply 28 of 94
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    Me neither, but I am content to side with the overall assessment re sapphire of someone from a pretty solid company that is no slouch on innovation, and knows a thing or two about glass.

    Is anyone questioning their success in glass? I'm certainly not, but I do question why they keep having to take digs at sapphire material if it's such a non-issue.

    However, after reading the comments in this thread I'm wondering why so many are suggesting that sapphire is a failed material when it's been such a success already and for a long time. I don't foresee sapphire being replaced in iDevices until GG is truly a sapphire replacement.
  • Reply 29 of 94

    And here's the perfect song for their YouTube Video:

     

    "You know that I would be a liar

    If I was to say to you

    Girl, we couldn't get much higher

     

    Come on baby, light my phire

    Come on baby, light my phire

    Try to set the night on phire!"

  • Reply 30 of 94
    blazarblazar Posts: 270member
    Go go go corning!
  • Reply 31 of 94
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    Glassmaker Corning on Friday unveiled "Project Phire," a glass composite that the company says is just as strong and drop-resistant as its latest Gorilla Glass but nearly as scratch-resistant as sapphire.

     
    Touch ID





    "We told you last year that sapphire was great for scratch performance but didn't fare well when dropped," Corning executive James Clappin said during Project Phire's unveiling at an investor event, according to CNET. "So, we created a product that offers the same superior damage resistance and drop performance of Gorilla Glass 4 with scratch resistance that approaches sapphire."



    Clappin added that Corning expects Project Phire to go on sale later this year, but did not elaborate further.



    Corning's Gorilla Glass business, which the company restarted in 2007 at the request of late Apple CEO Steve Jobs, has been under assault in recent months from sapphire activists who want to see the mercurial material replace hardened glass in smartphones. Apple struck a $578 million deal with sapphire equipment manufacturer GT Advanced Technologies in late 2013, a sign that many took to mean Corning would find itself on the outside looking in for the iPhone 6.



    The iPhone 6 and 6 Plus did not ship with sapphire-covered displays, however, and the GTAT deal famously went bust less than a year later. Apple's interest in the material was seemingly explained with the unveiling of the Apple Watch --?which does use sapphire in some models --?and the record-breaking number of iPhones that ship with sapphire in their camera lens covers and Touch ID sensors, but that has not tamped down sapphire proponents' enthusiasm.



    Sapphire is indeed extremely hard and scratch-resistant, but also quite brittle and shatters relatively easily. The material is notoriously difficult to work with as well, as Vertu executive Hutch Hutchison told AppleInsider last year.



    "As with any high-tech material, sapphire crystal has its own unique set of problems," Hutchison said. "It is slow, expensive and energy intensive to produce. It can take two weeks to grow each boules and the yield from each is low. It is also very difficult to cut, grind and polish; diamond tools have to be used for all of these processes."



    Corning's announcement of the new composite material comes nearly three months after the company unveiled Gorilla Glass 4, a new generation of the strengthened glass that Corning says will survive drops onto rough surfaces up to 80 percent of the time. The iPhone 6 and 6 Plus are thought to use the previous-generation Gorilla Glass 3.

     

    I think that Apple possibly going for Sapphire scared Corning out of its complacency. Corning's a great company by like most companies, needs to feel a bit of heat to produce.

  • Reply 32 of 94
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    The use of sapphire in the touchID isnot really an example of runaway success. I don't really care what the glass is tbh unless it brings benefits to the end user. I like the idea of haptic feedback but I don't think that sapphire is essential to that. And Corning have produced for the iPhone and havd no difficulty fulfilling orders.
  • Reply 33 of 94
    And my first reboot on iOS 8.1.3. Well, I went two days without.

    I miss the days when the software was as rock solid as the hardware.

    Stick to the day job, Ive.
  • Reply 34 of 94
    And my first reboot on iOS 8.1.3. Well, I went two days without.

    I miss the days when the software was as rock solid as the hardware.

    Stick to the day job, Ive.

    His day job is not writing code.
  • Reply 35 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post



    Is anyone questioning their success in glass? 

    Posts #3, #9, #13?

     

    Add: #30?

     

    And, add: #37.<img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

  • Reply 36 of 94
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    You are certainly welcome to think what you will, but they haven't been around, and innovated, for 150 years for nothing.



    Apple is not the only great company in the world.

     

    If it wasn't for Apple, Corning wouldn't be a fucking sliver of what they are now. Apple put them on the map with the 1st iPhone. 

  • Reply 37 of 94
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,385member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post



    And my first reboot on iOS 8.1.3. Well, I went two days without.



    I miss the days when the software was as rock solid as the hardware.



    Stick to the day job, Ive.

     

    Still waiting for the day when we see a single post from you that isn't dripping with a grotesque and almost criminal level of ignorance. I use my iPhone/iPad daily and haven't experienced a reboot in ages. There was never a time where software was "rock solid". It's a fictional time that trolls like you invent in order to bash. Just like those who "miss" the days of Steve Jobs, while when he was alive their bashed him daily.

     

     Oh, and Ive has nothing to do with software stability. I'm not sure what's worse- the fact that you might not know that, or the fact that you do, and like always, ignore that truth so you can lie through your teeth in order to fulfill your Apple bashing fantasies. I'll stop now, because I have a tendency of getting banned for calling you out once in a while on your never-ending trolling and shameless lies. 

  • Reply 38 of 94
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    Corning had created it decades earlier. Jobs is responsible for the motivation to have it produced, not the innovation to have it created.

    "[Jobs] said he wanted as much gorilla glass as Corning could make within six months.'We don't have the capacity,' Weeks replied. 'None of our plants make the glass now.'
    'Don't be afraid,' Jobs replied. This stunned Weeks, who was good-humored and confident but not used to Jobs' reality distortion field. He tried to explain that a false sense of confidence would not overcome engineering challenges, but that was a premise that Jobs had repeatedly shown he didn't accept. He stared at Weeks unblinking. 'Yes, you can do it,' he said. 'Get your mind around it. You can do it."
    As Weeks retold this story, he shook his head in astonishment. 'We did it in under six months,' he said. 'We produced a glass that had never been made.' Corning's facility in Harrisburg, Kentucky, which had been making LCD displays, was converted almost overnight to make gorilla glass full-time. 'We put our best scientists and engineers on it, and we just made it work.' In his airy office, Weeks has just one framed memento on display. It's a message Jobs sent the day the iPhone came out: 'We couldn't have done it without you.'"
  • Reply 39 of 94
    And my first reboot on iOS 8.1.3. Well, I went two days without.

    I miss the days when the software was as rock solid as the hardware.

    Stick to the day job, Ive.

    His day job is not writing code.

    That was my point.
  • Reply 40 of 94
    slurpy wrote: »
    And my first reboot on iOS 8.1.3. Well, I went two days without.


    I miss the days when the software was as rock solid as the hardware.


    Stick to the day job, Ive.

    Still waiting for the day when we see a single post from you that isn't dripping with a grotesque and almost criminal level of ignorance. I use my iPhone/iPad daily and haven't experienced a reboot in ages. Oh, and Ive has nothing to do with software stability. I'm not sure what's worse- the fact that you might not know that, or the fact that you do, and like always, ignore that truth so you can lie through your teeth in order to fulfill your Apple bashing fantasies. I'll stop now, because I have a tendency of getting banned for calling you out once in a while on your never-ending trolling and shameless lies. 

    You tend to get banned because you are prone to making unnecessarily insulting comments that are more befitting a child.
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