Corning takes shot at sapphire with 'Project Phire' ultra scratch-resistant glass

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 94
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    You tend to get banned because you are prone to making unnecessarily insulting comments that are more befitting a child.

    Hey sometimes people get upset with trolling and say things they wouldn't normally.
  • Reply 42 of 94
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    slurpy wrote: »
    If it wasn't for Apple, Corning wouldn't be a fucking sliver of what they are now. Apple put them on the map with the 1st iPhone.

    I can't agree with that. I seem to recall Corning being very successful before 2007 and don't see how the would have not continued to be successful if they hadn't realized they had this great product waiting for production.

    Of course, some evidence to Corning's valuation, company size in employees, revenue, profits, etc. for 2007 compared to 2014 would be useful if anyone is interested in posting it.
    "[Jobs] said he wanted as much gorilla glass as Corning could make within six months.'We don't have the capacity,' Weeks replied. 'None of our plants make the glass now.'
    'Don't be afraid,' Jobs replied. This stunned Weeks, who was good-humored and confident but not used to Jobs' reality distortion field. He tried to explain that a false sense of confidence would not overcome engineering challenges, but that was a premise that Jobs had repeatedly shown he didn't accept. He stared at Weeks unblinking. 'Yes, you can do it,' he said. 'Get your mind around it. You can do it."
    As Weeks retold this story, he shook his head in astonishment. 'We did it in under six months,' he said. 'We produced a glass that had never been made.' Corning's facility in Harrisburg, Kentucky, which had been making LCD displays, was converted almost overnight to make gorilla glass full-time. 'We put our best scientists and engineers on it, and we just made it work.' In his airy office, Weeks has just one framed memento on display. It's a message Jobs sent the day the iPhone came out: 'We couldn't have done it without you.'"

    Right, a specialized, toughened alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass that hadn't ever been mass produced before. It was still invented by Corning. Jobs contacted Corning, not to say, "Hey, can you produce this glass we invented?," but to say, "Do you have anything that can do this or that for us?" Corning was the innovation, and Jobs was the motivation, which isn't unlike the Woz/Jobs dynamic in the early days of Apple. I think Woz is brilliant, but if he didn't meet Jobs I think it's likely he would have remained a brilliant, well paid (but underpaid) engineer that made key developments, but would likely never know his name.
  • Reply 43 of 94
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    I can't agree with that. I seem to recall Corning being very successful before 2007 and don't see how the would have not continued to be successful if they hadn't realized they had this great product waiting for production.

    Of course, some evidence to Corning's valuation, company size in employees, revenue, profits, etc. for 2007 compared to 2014 would be useful if anyone is interested in posting it.
    Right, a specialized, toughened alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass that hadn't ever been mass produced before. It was still invented by Corning. Jobs contacted Corning, not to say, "Hey, can you produce this glass we invented?," but to say, "Do you have anything that can do this or that for us?" Corning was the innovation, and Jobs was the motivation, which isn't unlike the Woz/Jobs dynamic in the early days of Apple. I think Woz is brilliant, but if he didn't meet Jobs I think it's unlikely he would have remained a brilliant, well paid (but underpaid) engineer that made key developments in tech that we never heard of.

    Yes Corning make great cooking dishes.

    I didn't sugest Apple innovated I said "It's worth remembering the innovation for Gorilla Glass came about because Steve kicked ass to make it happen." Obviously you are correct it existed earlier but not in the exact same form I assume, they had to rethink their original invention.

    Main point was, not to quibble over words rather to point out but for Steve there would not have been Gorilla Glass on the iPhone and not subsequently on the copycats, the product simply would never have been made commercially at that time. I do wonder why Apple didn't get some exclusivity deal for some reasonable length of time.
  • Reply 44 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

     

    If it wasn't for Apple, Corning wouldn't be a fucking sliver of what they are now. Apple put them on the map with the 1st iPhone. 


    This is a first for me vis-a-vis your posts, but its sheer laughability is only exceeded by its ignorance! <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

     

    But, hey, there's no law against stupidity ignorance....

  • Reply 45 of 94
    Yes Corning make great cooking dishes.

    That's very belittling to what Corning has done in 1.5 centuries. That's like saying Apple made some great music players for kids.
    OK, can we agree Steve inspired innovation then, they had to rethink their original invention.

    Again, their original invention was fine. They simply had imagined no market for it before Jobs wanted it for the iPhone.

    Your comment it like saying, "Intel had no processor innovation before Apple contacted them about Small Form Factor Ultra-Low Voltage processors for their MacBook Air" We know that was something Intel created and shelved, not un-similar to Corning's alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass scenario, albeit with vastly different timeframes for the shelving.
    Main point was, not to quibble over words rather to point out but for Steve there would not have been Gorilla Glass on the iPhone and not subsequently on the copycats, the product simply would never have been made commercially at that time.

    I could see it going like that for awhile, but I think alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass (or something similar) would have eventually popped up by someone. Note that Corning isn't the only one making it these days, and I imagine they really need to push the envelope simply because their original invention is probably no longer protected.
    I do wonder why Apple didn't get some exclusivity deal for some reasonable length of time.

    I would hope something, like low price and/or be given supply before any others. There have also been stories about Apple investing heavily in the machine that make their components. Where they contract to have made the machines that Foxconn uses to assemble their products, as well as huge investments in display tech manufacturing (which is probably why that have been so far ahead for so long for their high yield needs, which I attribute to Cook's brilliance), and their more recent issues with GTAT for sapphire production machinery.
  • Reply 46 of 94
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post



    Yes Corning make great cooking dishes.

    Groan. Another ignorant post, when all one has to do is go on the internetz....

  • Reply 47 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post



    Of course, some evidence to Corning's valuation, company size in employees, revenue, profits, etc. for 2007 compared to 2014 would be useful if anyone is interested in posting it.

     

    Corning was worth approximately $27B in January 2007, and is worth $31B now.

     

    (As an interesting aside, their peak valuation was ~$150B, in the early 2000s. As you might know, they invented the low-loss optical fiber* -- without which, we cannot imagine the world we live in today -- and their valuation got swept up in the massive telecom/optical networking bubble of the late dotcom era. The stock crashed soon after, and the company nearly went bankrupt. (Where have we seen that before?). They reemerged brilliantly soon thereafter, with inventions/innovations in LCD and plasma and the growth of the flat panel business (in TVs and computer monitors), which they dominated. They were back to excellent financial health by the mid-2000s, and certainly by 2007).

     

    *It's a fascinating bit of history.

  • Reply 48 of 94
    I feel this negatively toward sapphire is because GTAT failed. A single company that incorrect (or lied) about the size and quality of the boules they could grow, and yet that seems to have tainted the material as a whole despite Apple's clear and abundant usage.

    But this isn't an isolated incident. I remember NFC was this awful technology that Apple will never use when Android devices were adding it to their spec sheet, but ?Pay is a huge success, which I expect to change the way the world does transactions.
    Corning was worth approximately $27B in market cap in January 2007, and $31B now.

    That low rise since 2007 could indicate that Gorilla Glass hasn't become a major source of revenue and profit for the company.
  • Reply 49 of 94
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,369member

    None of us were present at the conversation. Gorilla Glass was developed in the 60's but didn't have a use. Steve met with Corning and they discovered that they did have a product. Steve may not have even bothered to "lock in", or Corning - knowing what they had - made the deal pretty plain.  If you have the patent, you're not going to sign into some dumb contract when you can sell to the world.  In that case, Corning was incredibly wise and deserving of the windfall with this product.

     

    What's really great is that they are continuing to advance technology in materials to meet this technological demand.  If Apple would have "locked them in" then they wouldn't have the same drive to do this. Competition breeds better products whether you're a fanboy or not (I am)

  • Reply 50 of 94
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,903member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post



    Jobs should have locked Corning into a 10 year exclusive deal in return for saving their company

     

    He didn't save the company. There was one single manufacturing plant scheduled to close, that remained open to make Gorilla glass. Corning is, and was, a healthy company with a long history of innovation in many fields.

  • Reply 51 of 94
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

     

    Steve may not have even bothered to "lock in", or Corning - knowing what they had - made the deal pretty plain.  


    Steve was also, unfortunately, not aware at that time that there were blatant software and hardware thieves all around him and Apple, ripping them off, because he probably thought that he had put a wall around it all by patenting the "heck out of it."

  • Reply 52 of 94
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,104member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post



    I remember NFC was this awful technology that Apple will never use when Android devices were adding it to their spec sheet, but ?Pay is a huge success, which I expect to change the way the world does transactions.

    Long after NTT DoCoMo had wildly popular cellphones with NFC contactless payment ("osaifu keitai"). The Japanese started NFC contactless cellphone payments in 2005.

     

    I don't consider pre-Apple Pay NFC as an awful technology per se, just a piss poor implementation by Android handset manufacturers.

     

    Basically, it took 9+ years for someone outside of Japan to implement this meaningfully. That's pathetic.

  • Reply 53 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post



    That low rise since 2007 could indicate that Gorilla Glass hasn't become a major source of revenue and profit for the company.

    GG is not a huge part of their business. It is one piece of their fifth largest business segment, "Speciality Materials." (http://www.corning.com/about_us/index.aspx)

     

    They have bigger business in display technologies, environmental products (e.g., emissions control equipment), optical fiber, and life sciences.

     

    Some of the strident ignorance displayed in this thread -- by otherwise normally sensible posters -- is truly pathetic.

  • Reply 54 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post



    They use naturally occurring sapphire now? I've never heard that.

     

    I just used the correct name, probably synthetic sapphire was better though. Just being pedantic because it really is the same chemical composition as Sapphire.

  • Reply 55 of 94
    arlorarlor Posts: 532member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

     

    GG is not a huge part of their business. It is one piece of their fifth largest business segment, "Speciality Materials." (http://www.corning.com/about_us/index.aspx)

     

    They have bigger business in display technologies, environmental products (e.g., emissions control equipment), optical fiber, and life sciences.

     

    Some of the strident ignorance displayed in this thread -- by otherwise normally sensible posters -- is truly pathetic.


     

    I'm glad they've been getting hammered by you and others, because this thread has been an unusually bad example of absolutely brainless cheerlead-Apple-and-damn-the-world-ness. There's a reason Apple went to Corning for Gorilla Glass, and there's a reason Apple's suppliers use Corning-developed technology in their screens and other internal components. It's great that Apple saw a use for an invention that Corning hadn't managed to find a customer for, but it's Corning that came up with it in the first place, not Apple, and they've found their own customers for hundreds of other important inventions.

     

    ps. I'm not invested in either company.

  • Reply 56 of 94
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,369member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    Is anyone questioning their success in glass? I'm certainly not, but I do question why they keep having to take digs at sapphire material if it's such a non-issue.



    However, after reading the comments in this thread I'm wondering why so many are suggesting that sapphire is a failed material when it's been such a success already and for a long time. I don't foresee sapphire being replaced in iDevices until GG is truly a sapphire replacement.



    Remember that this was announced to investors. We already know that investors are finicky people that listen to analysts when they tell them that GTAT is going to produce sapphire to cover every iPhone and iPad on earth. The reason why Corning is taking "digs" is to turn investors away from any kind of sapphire venture, and invest in Corning.  It's just business really.  There's only so much money for investment and Corning wants it so they are putting their best foot forward and creating a material that takes away the competitive advantage for sapphire crystal so they get the money.

  • Reply 57 of 94
    arlor wrote: »

    ps. I'm not invested in either company.

    And, I am invested in both.

    At least, we can claim to be objective! :lol:
  • Reply 58 of 94
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    Groan. Another ignorant post, when all one has to do is go on the internetz....

    Hey enough with insulting me! It was a genuine freaking compliment! I am he chef in the house and I would not know what I'd do with out my Pyrex stuff, and also Le Creuset stuff.
  • Reply 59 of 94
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    That's very belittling to what Corning has done in 1.5 centuries. That's like saying Apple made some great music players for kids.
    Again, their original invention was fine. They simply had imagined no market for it before Jobs wanted it for the iPhone.

    Your comment it like saying, "Intel had no processor innovation before Apple contacted them about Small Form Factor Ultra-Low Voltage processors for their MacBook Air" We know that was something Intel created and shelved, not un-similar to Corning's alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass scenario, albeit with vastly different timeframes for the shelving.
    I could see it going like that for awhile, but I think alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass (or something similar) would have eventually popped up by someone. Note that Corning isn't the only one making it these days, and I imagine they really need to push the envelope simply because their original invention is probably no longer protected.
    I would hope something, like low price and/or be given supply before any others. There have also been stories about Apple investing heavily in the machine that make their components. Where they contract to have made the machines that Foxconn uses to assemble their products, as well as huge investments in display tech manufacturing (which is probably why that have been so far ahead for so long for their high yield needs, which I attribute to Cook's brilliance), and their more recent issues with GTAT for sapphire production machinery.

    I happen to have meant the dish ware comment genuinely as a compliment. Pyrex has been the best thing in the kitchen, along with Le Creuset IMHO for a very long time (I am the chef in this house so I speak from personal view point here). When you think Corning introduced Pyrex in 1915 it is astounding. I have no idea why several people took that as anything other than a compliment. I assume there has been some derision by others I missed. I have nothing but admiration for Corning and my OP simply referenced the fact they needed Steve to kick them up the butt to realize what they had on their hands in the light of what Apple was about to bring to market.
  • Reply 60 of 94
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member

    Every smartphone on the planet that currently uses Gorilla Glass can thank Steve Jobs and Apple for that.

     

    What's to stop Apple from using this new version if it's good? I say may the best material win, and that's what Apple should use. I don't give a crap if it's sapphire or something else.

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