Apple looks to 'reinvent the notebook' with all-new 12" MacBook with Retina display



  • Reply 121 of 169
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Since the composition window is at the bottom of the page it would be forced down while you were writing if the new post was automatically added.


    Why? The page could just scroll an identical amount of space. 


    Also if you happen to be on a previous page it couldn't very well add the post automatically now could it?


    If you’re on a previous page, you don’t care about those posts yet, and thus the argument is moot.


    The server does not know how far you are scrolled down or how large you have made the fonts so it doesn't know how much to adjust the window position. Best not to screw around with a page that the user is possibly entering text.


    You might have read all the posts on the last page but have gone back to quote something from a previous page and the notification alerts you that there is a new post on the last page. Also if you are just sitting on the last page, if new content is added you wouldn't know if the content was below your current scroll position so the alert is good to have.


    People who don't know programming shouldn't tell programmers how to do their job. The notification feature is well implemented. Your idea is misconceived.

  • Reply 122 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    factor70 wrote: »
    Calm down?  I don't think he's upset enough.  I'm serious.  The latest Mac Mini is another example of Apple making things WORSE with every new hardware revision.  Fewer upgrade options, slower, and the list goes on.  They are so, so arrogant it's ridiculous.  Thank god there are "whiners" out there making some noise.  They are the only ones who are honest about what Apple is doing.  Sure, this may become a big hit...but Wal*Mart is a big hit too.  So is McDonald's.  Appealing to the unspohisticated "masses" does not mesh with what Steve Jobs believed.

    Agreed. I personally never saw the need for a 17" laptop, but I can see where it would be very, very useful. Since Apple - for better or worse - is the only manufacturer of Mac hardware (unless you want to go rogue) we are, sadly, totally dependent on them.

    Where I find this REALLY galling is in the "desktops". Which, because of Apples obsession with Thin, are nothing more than glorified laptops in a fixed form factor. Combine that with the crap Intel is pulling to try to squeeze out AMD and NVIDIA for graphics and you end up with just THREE Mac models - in their ENTIRE LINE - that actually have discrete GPUs.

    Three models. One of which the Mac Pro and starts in the multi-thousands. And while the GPUs in it are OK for compute, they stink at games.

    Which a surprising number of people enjoy playing games on their computers.

    But heaven help you if you happen to also be a Mac fan. God forbid they ship something like the xMac - a heard back to the IIcx/IIci - Microtower with a couple of slots so you can have some choice. Sadly I'm probably doomed to have at least one Windows machine in my house for games if nothing else, and that's just irksome since it's mainly due to stupid design decisions for problems that don't exist on the desktop.

    I'm a huge Apple fan, but seriously what problem were they really solving with the new Mac Pro? Was anyone really clamoring for it to be that much more smaller that they had to remove the capability to change out the GPUs entirely? Quiet is always welcome, but my current Mac Pro I'm typing on is already whisper quite unless I'm really doing something processor intensive - which usually means I have music or something else gong on so I'm not going to hear the fans when they spin up in those situations either. Power consumption is also a good thing to keep under control, but when I need to get work done I'm going to consume power - I bought the damn thing to do stuff with it, not sit there and have it conserve energy :p

    They could at least have kept the previous Mac Pro form factor or refined it a little in addition to selling the new Mac Pro. Or even putting back in the option to swap graphics in the iMac like a few models had. But then again that make a desktop computer gasp a little thicker again! Oh noes! We can't have that!

    Ugh. I'd like the pendulum to swing back towards the function side of things and away from form. Just a smidgen.

    Also, I don't think they need to keep the number of models down to save the company any more. They need to stop getting a pass for that excuse too.
  • Reply 123 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    crowley wrote: »
    Beautiful, but that Core-M is surely going to drag.

    In what way? Are you really going to be doing computationally intensive stuff on a machine like this for long periods of time? If so, then good news - the MacBook Pro is more than enough machine for you. I'm thrilled that because of the low power dissipation there is no fan. Hopefully it's not another Apple III in the waiting, but I think the risk of that is pretty low. For what I want to use it for, the Core-M is more than adequate. Heck, an ARM CPU would probably be more than enough power for the vast majority of people - witness the iPad. I bump into RAM issues on my iPad far more than CPU.
    And a retina display on that graphics chipset?

    For anything but games it's more than adequate, Then again with that CPU and sealed chassis you aren't going to be gaming but casually on this either.
    I want one, but I don't really want one.

    Frankly, lack of magsafe was more a put off for me than the CPU or GPU. I'm getting over that and will probably go with this over a new MacBook Air mainly because of Retina which now I think is clear the Air will never get. If I had the luxury of a still working MacBook I would be tempted to sit out until the next Air update before making up my mind but I need a new laptop now, and for surfing the web, reading email and general productivity this machine will be more than adequate - especially with that display. Can't wait to see if the new keyboard is worthy of their fuss - the Mac laptop keyboards were already easily among my favorites and that the trackpad doesn't click for real doesn't bother me since tap click is the first thing I turn off. I forgot they could hardware click to be honest. Force touch will be fun to play with but will probably be ignored by me anyway - I tend to be pretty simple in my use.

    It's a great looking machine, lack of magsafe aside. The weight is going to be amazing. My old Macbook Air will feel like a paperweight compared to it.
  • Reply 124 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    mstone wrote: »
    You might have read all the posts on the last page but have gone back to quote something from a previous page and the notification alerts you that there is a new post on the last page. Also if you are just sitting on the last page, if new content is added you wouldn't know if the content was below your current scroll position so the alert is good to have.

    After using forums that dynamically add posts, I have to heartily agree that this is a much better solution here.
  • Reply 125 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    sflocal wrote: »
    With no fans to disperse waste heat, the aluminum chassis can only do so much.  

    Luckily it doesn't have to do much. That CPU dissipates the same wattage as the ARM CPU's in the iPads and while the iPads get warm, they are certainly stable. I was worried about this too until I watched the event and saw the 5 watt power dissipation.
    I'm really curious.  I don't think I'll be a good candidate for the new rMBA, but I do like where it's going.  A lot of that great tech will certainly trickle down to the MBP's as well.

    Yes and no. I wouldn't expect the others to suddenly go fanless since their CPU's dissipate quite a big more heat (even the new refreshed 13" MBP).
    I'm not sure getting rid of the MagSafe was a good idea.  That was great tech and save a lot of ports from being busted out.  I suspect a lot of AppleCare visits on those.

    I guess i'll find out. With that battery life, even if I'm sitting on the couch I may not have it plugged in as much as I have in the past. I guess I'll find out since the sweet siren call of Retina combined with that insane weight are just too good for me to pass up.
  • Reply 126 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    wdowell wrote: »
    I do think Intel deserves quite a bit of credit for making this possible.

    lol, better late than never I suppose? I strongly suspect this was their last chance to deliver on all their mobile promises. I have no doubt an ARM version of the motherboard exists for this laptop in Apple's labs ;)
  • Reply 127 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    mazda 3s wrote: »
    One more thing... $80 to add a full-size USB port and an HDMI port. Are you ****ing kidding me? Damn thing costs more than an Apple TV.

    Probably because like one of the other cables that was criticized for being expensive that I can't remember the details of, it might have the equivalent of an Apple TV in it too.

    Also, if you think an HDMI cable should ever cost more than $30 stop going to Best Buy and check out sites like monoprice (who have cheaper lightening cables that are licensed and will probably have these adaptors for less too).
  • Reply 128 of 169
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    scotty321 wrote: »
    Apple has literally gone insane. True video editing professionals & graphic design professionals & professional programmers need a LARGER SCREEN, such as the now-discontinued 17" MacBook Pro. But instead, they keep making things smaller. There was once a time when professionals could actually be MOBILE PROFESSIONALS with Apple's laptops. Not anymore. I sure miss the Steve Jobs days.

    While I will agree that I think this "single port" thing is insane, This is the "MacBook" not the "Macbook Pro" and not the "Macbook Air"

    Take note of what else got nerfed. The camera (480p, while the Air and Pro have 720p) was nerfed, for no other reason than I can think of to shave a few cents off the build cost. This slots it below the Macbook Air. The MacBook does have a Retina display, but it's paired with the only available weakest graphics option - Intel HD Graphics 5300, not even the Iris Pro version. are all 4.5Watt CPU's.

    This is just another example of the industry-wide trend of shipping slower parts for power-savings/mobile targets. Good luck running any game produced in the last 6 years on it.
  • Reply 129 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    asdasd wrote: »
    Pro tip you can attach an external monitor.

    In the field? That kind of defeats the purpose of having a laptop, no?

    Pro tip - pro's aren't always tethered to a desk :rolleyes:
  • Reply 130 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    factor70 wrote: »
    HOWEVER, sales should not ALWAYS determine what Apple sells.  There are certain products that don't sell very well but fit a need with their consumers.

    Especially since I can only (legally) get Mac's from Apple :p
  • Reply 131 of 169
    Great but really dismayed by the loss of magsafe. In a household of 4 Apple laptops, magsafe probably saves us from one trip disaster every 6 months. It is frankly perverse to loose such a really useful feature. And for meaningful connectivity you need to add the really expensive 3 port dongle. I would rather have seen just a thunderbolt port, then you could connect to one of the many docks for static use and of course the magsafe
  • Reply 132 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    elroth wrote: »
    However, in this case THIS IS A NEW PRODUCT. Apple hasn't taken away anything.

    Because they already took it away long ago. And as the sole suppliers of Mac's, it's kind of up to them to bring that functionality back. Just like removing slots from the old Mac Pro's for the new ones. I wish I would have stocked up on some older Mac Pro's before the new one came out because the proces of used old style Mac Pro's jumped. Significantly. Back your point, it would have been OK if Apple added the new style Mac Pro - but they didn't. They probably would have kept the old style Mac Pro around if not for the stupid European regulations on unguarded fans - or perhaps not, who knows. Logic certainly doesn't always play with Apple - such as the majority of their desktops having laptop guts to meet some artificial design aesthetic that really doesn't matter on a desktop machine. Thin makes sense as a priority for something going into my pocket - but setting on my desk? 1" vs. 3" really that big a deal?
  • Reply 133 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    2) Funny, you don't seem to refer to the people that were electrocuted using cheap Chinese chargers

    lol - when an adapter for low voltage signals has the same potential for physical harm you might have a point.

    Seriously dude? This must be a "new" Solipsism? Have I really been out of here that long?
  • Reply 134 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    mstone wrote: »
    I do find it interesting how short lived Thunderbolt became.

    Huh? It's still there on the new Air's and MBP. It just doesn't make sense for this machine - just look at the CPU. This isn't a heavy duty computing machine, it's for light to medium duty use. And as such it's perfect for my needs and I'm looking forward to it. I just hope the lack of magsafe doesn't annoy me as much as I fear it might because everything else about it is a home run for me.
  • Reply 135 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    zeetree wrote: »
    The old 17" he is reminiscing about had a 1680 x 1050 TFT screen - which has the same pixel density as the 15" bto model discontinued in 2012.

    lol - you realize that other companies that make 17" laptops still have managed to find displays that surpass even the pixel densities of Apple's Retina Macs?

    I'm getting tired from watching all the mental gymnastics in this thread - whew!
  • Reply 136 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    t-bone wrote: »
    So why is Apple no longer deploying Thunderbolt on these machines?

    It doesn't make sense? The CPU and use case for it more than suggest Thunderbolt is complete overkill for this machine give it's intended use.
    Unless of course new displays with USB-C that will power this MacBook are released soon. :P

    With all the emphasis on portability and wireless during the presentation, do you really think Apple is concerned about users of this MacBook tethering it to a screen?

    If you are worried about connecting this to a screen you might, as the kids once said, "be doing it wrong".
  • Reply 137 of 169
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    misa wrote: »
    The camera (480p, while the Air and Pro have 720p) was nerfed, for no other reason than I can think of to shave a few cents off the build cost.

    Or that it was thinner.
    This slots it below the Macbook Air.

    Based on the camera?!?

    Look, it's not a competitor to the Macbook Air or the MacBook Pro - that's whey they all continue to exist. It's it's own thing (ack! - that is tortured) and hit's it's own specific targets. If it doesn't hit the ones that matter to you, then it's a good thing they didn't cancel all their other laptops when they announced this one (although you would never know that if you took many comments in this thread at face value!)
    This is just another example of the industry-wide trend of shipping slower parts for power-savings/mobile targets. Good luck running any game produced in the last 6 years on it.

    Here's some common ground we can bond over. That Apple, a company that built it's reputation on graphics prowess, has the WEAKEST line of computers as far as graphics capabilities goes in the entire history of the company is the real story here. Forget gaming on Mac's right now, it's just miserable. I'm still gobsmacked that the Mac Pro was neutered so hard without at least having some alternative. It wouldn't be so bad if I could get Mac hardware from another company willing to fill the gaps :(
  • Reply 138 of 169
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    misa wrote: »
    The camera (480p, while the Air and Pro have 720p) was nerfed, for no other reason than I can think of to shave a few cents off the build cost.

    How about there isn't enough room in the new top cover which seems thinner and more flat than previous designs, which may also explain why there is no cutout with a plastic insert for the beautiful, iconic and marketing effect of the glowing apple logo.

    PS: The "Apple wanted to save a few cents" or "Apple is just being greedy" comments as to why they make the choices they do when designing a product are just ridiculous as they are annoying. If you're annoyed by the lowered quality of the webcam over the 11" MBA do you think Apple wouldn't want spend "a few cents" if that's all it was to make you happy and get a sale? Do you think they would bother with the much higher costs of better keyboard keys, improved keyboard backlighting, a better trackpad motion, a force touch trackpad with their Taptic engine, layered battery wafers with a milled casing to optimize capacity, a Retina display with an IPS panel over a TN panel, and on-on-on if it was just about being greedy? There are a shitload of places they could cut costs without most knowing. You only have to look at their competitors to see how the 1000+ "no one will notice if we trim a little here" choices have led to their shitty products no one talks about.
  • Reply 139 of 169
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    docno42 wrote: »

    In the field? That kind of defeats the purpose of having a laptop, no?

    Pro tip - pro's aren't always tethered to a desk :rolleyes:

    Pros wouldn't be buying a MB anyway but the question was about 17inch vs 15 inch. The 17, which I had, was awkward to impossible to use on trains. The 15 inch was better. When at home you can add an external.
  • Reply 140 of 169
    I can’t wait to see a side by side with the 12” PowerBook.

    They’re trying to get rid of right-clicking with Force Click. I really don’t know how that’ll work; this will be the most error prone implementation of something they’ll release.

    From a hands-on Engadget article
    Author's credentials: "Given that I review Ultrabooks for a living..."
    Memorable quote: "Throughout, the experience feels very controlled; very deliberate. I can't see how you would accidentally use a Force Touch gesture if you didn't mean to."
Sign In or Register to comment.