Fast, luxurious & sensible: What the personal vehicles of Apple execs could mean for an Apple Car

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  • Reply 81 of 106
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    <div align="center"><img src=http://photos.appleinsidercdn.com/gallery/12172-5892-ais-l.jpg alt="" />
    <span class="minor2 small gray">Tesla's Model S, left, and Google's self-driving car, right.</span></div>

    The sound I thought of when seeing that Google car was:


    [VIDEO]

    nagromme wrote:
    I'm not sure what the personal phones of Apple execs told us about the iPhone....

    I think they had Blackberries but they all hated their phones and so they made a phone that was better than what they already had in performance and features and that they would want to use every day.

    At the very least, it tells us they're not likely to downgrade their high-end cars to a low-end car just like they didn't downgrade their existing phones to low-end phones.
    zoetmb wrote:
    how credible can one be when you claim to want to do things to support the environment when you drive a 12-cylinder, 400-horsepower car? What does it get - 5 mpg?

    So what you're saying is there's a need for some sort of luxury design that gets the fuel efficiency of an everyday low-end car. I wonder if Apple has thought about that.
    konqerror wrote:
    Other than the Camry, I can guarantee you the reliability of all these cars are crap.

    So what you're saying is there's a need for some sort of luxury design that gets the reliability of an everyday low-end car. I wonder if Apple has thought about that.
    paxman wrote:
    Who doesn't like a high end luxury car? Apple execs can afford any car they fancy but does that mean Apple would produce a high end luxury car?

    So what you're saying is there's a need for some sort of luxury design that has the affordability of an everyday low-end car. I wonder if Apple has thought about that.

    Apple would almost have to transition into a company that appeals to the mass market yet makes premium quality and reliable products.
    zoetmb wrote:
    I do think that most car design today is quite awful and most Japanese and European cars really look no different and don't have any better finishes than American cars.

    http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=34349


    [VIDEO]


    [VIDEO]


    Tesla is really one of the few American cars that stands out as being something special. Elon Musk was in an interview with NVidia talking about driverless cars:


    [VIDEO]


    He made an analogy between manual elevators and autonomous. There were no manual and automatic elevators at risk of collision with each other but he says we could reach a point where manual driving is outlawed. 2 billion+ vehicles on the road is a challenge to replace but if you can switch them all over to electric cars that have autonomous capability then it should be easier to make the transition because the manual electric vehicles would be aware of the autonomous ones.
    cnocbui wrote:
    Say the annual road toll in the US is 40 K a year and the AI guided cars are shown to result in 15% fewer fatalities. You are saying it's somehow better to have 40 K dead than 34 K dead?

    The difficulty is how do you determine that a death was unavoidable in an autonomous vehicle? People are imprisoned for vehicular manslaughter if they were driving dangerously. An electric vehicle can't justify the decision to run over someone. A singe fatality caused by an autonomous car would cause outrage. Look at the problems GM is having with their faulty ignition switches:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-2997407/GM-ignition-switch-death-toll-rises-67.html
  • Reply 82 of 106
    I find the BMW 5-series to be a bit bland and overpriced. When I was in the market for a new car a few years back, I ended up getting a Chrysler 300 Limited. Friends of mine picked up a BMW 535i. The BMW didn't look any better than mine, didn't have any technology mine didn't have, and cost $20,000 more. While Chrysler has a poor reputation for quality, I haven't had any major issues in four years. BMWs have a lot more cachet, but they also have a reputation for poor quality, that's very expensive to repair.

    So, in the end, it was a nice car, but they got bored with it, and have just recently sold it and ordered a new Tesla.

    I'm hoping if Apple really is designing a new car, they focus on the whole package, the underlying technology being state of the art, and the interiors being a joy to ride in. And, they need to keep the cost affordable for most people who are also their iPhone/Mac customers. It'll be fine to have an over-the-top model, just like their gold watch, but that can't be their main model.
  • Reply 83 of 106
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    fallenjt wrote: »
    Who drives that Camry, seriously?

    Probably the one with the most money.
  • Reply 84 of 106
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave Marsh View Post



     I haven't had any major issues in four years. BMWs have a lot more cachet, but they also have a reputation for poor quality, that's very expensive to repair.

    Dave:

     

    The key for me is to trade in the BMW every three years. I have never had any repair bills because I am always under warranty and free maintenance and nothing has ever needed repair either. My dealer gives me TOP dollar for my trade-ins because I keep the car immaculate, garaged and low miles. The last trade-in he gave me $3K more than the highest KBB price. I'm on my third BMW. I would imagine that the price disparity between an 535i (which I drive) and a Chrysler 300 would flatten out pretty quickly at trade-in time.

  • Reply 85 of 106
    mstone wrote: »
    Dave:

    The key for me is to trade in the BMW every three years. I have never had any repair bills because I am always under warranty and free maintenance and nothing has ever needed repair either. My dealer gives me TOP dollar for my trade-ins because I keep the car immaculate, garaged and low miles. The last trade-in he gave me $3K more than the highest KBB price. I'm on my third BMW. I would imagine that the price disparity between an 535i (which I drive) and a Chrysler 300 would flatten out pretty quickly at trade-in time.

    Of all the cars my wife and I have owned, my BMW has been, by far, the most reliable and hassle-free. No other car I've owned, for example, has a recommended oil change only every 15,000 miles (most recommend an oil change every 5,000 miles).

    Btw, the standard BMW warranty in the US is for four years.
  • Reply 86 of 106
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

    Oh, come on!  We are talking about a completely different level of tech here which would have failsafes and redundencies as do aircraft.  How often does the engine management system in your car crash?

     

    The only argument I’ve seen for self-driving cars is that in the event of a GPS failure, the car would lower the speed to zero. All well and good, except the GPS system is strained to the absolute max right now and can’t afford even a single satellite failure. And, you know, if the cars stop themselves and refuse to move, that’s tens of millions of people stranded at home, work, or in between. But I’m sure that ambulance didn’t need to get to the hospital…

  • Reply 87 of 106
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    The only argument I’ve seen for self-driving cars is that in the event of a GPS failure, the car would lower the speed to zero. All well and good, except the GPS system is strained to the absolute max right now and can’t afford even a single satellite failure. And, you know, if the cars stop themselves and refuse to move, that’s tens of millions of people stranded at home, work, or in between. But I’m sure that ambulance didn’t need to get to the hospital…

    1) Where did you get this information about the loss of a single GPS satellite would bring down all GPS services?

    2) Why use the term "right now" when talking about something that is currently measured in terms of "decades from now"?

    3) Why assume if automobiles can be more autonomous under ideal circumstances it means they all of a sudden can't function at all when those conditions are ideal? When cruise control isn't ideal I turn it off (or rather, it disengages automatically since it knows I've taken over the acceleration and breaking).
  • Reply 88 of 106
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    How did we deal that issue when cruise control first appeared? We dealt with it because even though cruise control will automate maintaining a speed limit the driver is still the one in control. It's the same thing with a self-serving car. The next step is adaptive cruise control becoming more common place. Then you have additional automation added but the driver will still be in control… until it becomes a liability for the driver to maintain ultimate control, which may or may not happen in our lifetimes. Looking at aircraft, even with all the automation involved the pilots are still in control.

    You are right in both that there would need to be incremental steps - an autonomous self driving car is science fiction, but each step towards 'assisted' driving will be fraught with problems one which would be about liability. I wonder if cruise control has ever been 'blamed' for accidents directly or indirectly.
    There will always be an ethical issue to consider, but I don't understand that scenario. This assumes the car simply can't brake. Why can't it?

    Of course it can, and probably far more safely than humans. But I was imagining a future of fully autonomous vehicles and realizing that at the point at which AI is allowed to fully control a vehicle the AI would need the ability to make ethical life and death decisions. Much as I like the idea of an autonomous car that can be summoned to my house with the help of Siri, for instance, I can't see it ever happening.
  • Reply 89 of 106
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    paxman wrote: »
    You are right in both that there would need to be incremental steps - an autonomous self driving car is science fiction, but each step towards 'assisted' driving will be fraught with problems one which would be about liability. I wonder if cruise control has ever been 'blamed' for accidents directly or indirectly.

    I think it's quite possible, and yet people have been using and still use this dumb cruise control all the time.

    I say dumb, because it can't even sense danger, outside of an impact causing the cruise control to then disengage. At least with adaptive cruise control it starts to sense objects that are too close in its path. Then add in systems that can determine how other cars are behaving on the road around you and driving conditions to assist you in taking action to distance yourself from that car or those cars, although I'd think before that cars would be able to first gauge your driving.
    Of course it can, and probably far more safely than humans. But I was imagining a future of fully autonomous vehicles and realizing that at the point at which AI is allowed to fully control a vehicle the AI would need the ability to make ethical life and death decisions. Much as I like the idea of an autonomous car that can be summoned to my house with the help of Siri, for instance, I can't see it ever happening.

    I'm all about "what if"scenarios but with all the irrational hysteria about the term self-driving car I am choosing to only consider the next dozen or so logical steps in the process.
  • Reply 90 of 106
    markmark Posts: 143member

    I think that, for this article, AI should have gone to Apple HQ and taken pictures of all the actual vehicles (with the licence plates blurred out, of course.) 

     

    I mean, if the idea is that those cars give us clues about the Apple Car (a dubious premise,  but I'll go along with it for fun ;)), we need to see them, right?

     

    Does anyone drive a matte grey Mercedes SL? Or maybe a mirror finish Ferrari à la Justin Bieber? Are there fuzzy dice in that Camry? Anybody have greasy Domino's boxes stacked in their back seat? Anyone have those adorable 'Teddy Bear' alloys?

     

    ?????? :???: 

  • Reply 91 of 106
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 1,100member
    Google just has no sex.
  • Reply 92 of 106
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    I think it's quite possible, and yet people have been using and still use this dumb cruise control all the time.

    Why on earth don't cruise controls disengage automatically when it rains? I had no idea about this and I do use cc often.

    I say dumb, because it can't even sense danger, outside of an impact causing the cruise control to then disengage. At least with adaptive cruise control it starts to sense objects that are too close in its path. Then add in systems that can determine how other cars are behaving on the road around you and driving conditions to assist you in taking action to distance yourself from that car or those cars, although I'd think before that cars would be able to first gauge your driving.
    I'm all about "what if"scenarios but with all the irrational hysteria about the term self-driving car I am choosing to only consider the next dozen or so logical steps in the process.

    You are a wiser man than me! I have seen a few videos of different 'self driving' projects. Volvo has developed a system whereby cars digitally chain together. I can quite remember how it works if the 'leader' car or truck drives irrationally, or pulls up or off, but the idea being that automatically link up and respond to a leading car. The example they showed was highway driving.
  • Reply 93 of 106
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    paxman wrote: »
    Why on earth don't cruise controls disengage automatically when it rains? I had no idea about this and I do use cc often.

    Finding that article after you asked the question is the first I've heard of it, too? Sometimes I wonder if we focus too much on the wrong threats.
    I have seen a few videos of different 'self driving' projects. Volvo has developed a system whereby cars digitally chain together. I can quite remember how it works if the 'leader' car or truck drives irrationally, or pulls up or off, but the idea being that automatically link up and respond to a leading car.

    Do you have a link?
    The example they showed was highway driving.

    At this point, I'd think the first truly autonomous cars (some Google cars around Mountain View not included) would only be allowed in protected sections of road. For example, like the HOV lanes. Long stretches of highway, but perhaps where the lane — using the singular — can be in some way isolated from the other lanes.
  • Reply 94 of 106
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    Finding that article after you asked the question is the first I've heard of it, too? Sometimes I wonder if we focus too much on the wrong threats.
    Do you have a link?

    This is the best video explaining the new system. I saw a much earlier video but this looks pretty interesting



    Neither video below actually explains how the technology works but they show examples and you get a bit of a sales pitch



    (long intro)

    http://www.technewsworld.com/story/81734.html?rss=1
  • Reply 95 of 106
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    paxman wrote: »
    This is the best video explaining the new system. I saw a much earlier video but this looks pretty interesting



    Neither video below actually explains how the technology works but they show examples and you get a bit of a sales pitch



    (long intro)

    http://www.technewsworld.com/story/81734.html?rss=1

    1) Thanks for the links.

    2) I do take umbrage with a couple things shown the first two videos. For examples, in the first video the guy holding the phone up to his ear to take a call and later doing office work(?), and in the second video, the women reading the magazine in the driver seat. I think it's seeing things like that that will help push people away from this inevitable technology. When that aspect is finally possible we'll no be concerned about the safety of autonomous automobiles, and we'll probably have a steering wheel that is someone less intrustive into the cab at that point; think Demolition Man (1993). They need to not focus on what it does for the "driver's" leisure time in the car, but rather how this helps make driving safer for everyone, will bring down insurance costs due to considerably fewer accidents, and reduce commute times due to more efficient driving patterns. You could even add in there that autonomous automobiles will be fuel/energy efficient.
  • Reply 96 of 106
    I'd shit-can all of Schiller's car...they are old junk...what he needs that would top them all is the La Ferrari...the most beautiful High Performance car on the road today!!!
  • Reply 97 of 106

    If I had Schiller's money, I'd shit-can all his relics and get the most beautiful High Performance car on the road today...The La Ferrari!   Now they even have a Track Only Version...That is quite a car but obviously not for the street...

  • Reply 98 of 106
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    larrymagoo wrote: »
    If I had Schiller's money, I'd shit-can all his relics and get the most beautiful High Performance car on the road today...The La Ferrari!   Now they even have a Track Only Version...That is quite a car but obviously not for the street...

    The list is of his favorite cars. Not necessarily that he owns them. The Porsche 550 is a rare car, and no way anyone would ever shit can one, even for a La Ferrari.
  • Reply 99 of 106
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    1) Thanks for the links.

    2) I do take umbrage with a couple things shown the first two videos. For examples, in the first video the guy holding the phone up to his ear to take a call and later doing office work(?), and in the second video, the women reading the magazine in the driver seat. I think it's seeing things like that that will help push people away from this inevitable technology. When that aspect is finally possible we'll no be concerned about the safety of autonomous automobiles, and we'll probably have a steering wheel that is someone less intrustive into the cab at that point; think Demolition Man (1993). They need to not focus on what it does for the "driver's" leisure time in the car, but rather how this helps make driving safer for everyone, will bring down insurance costs due to considerably fewer accidents, and reduce commute times due to more efficient driving patterns. You could even add in there that autonomous automobiles will be fuel/energy efficient.
    Agree with all of that. At one point in one of the videos I think they do mention the fuel efficiency gained through 'better' driving. The stereotyping is odd - I put it down to bad marketing, and yes - the steering whee! It just looks odd. You'd imagine it would retract, or something. I also wonder about the ability of people to 'take over' when the need arises. After a period of time and general usage I'd worry that people would no longer be capable of 'taking over'. Their driving skills no longer up to par. I like the fact that the car will pull over and park if it gets no response from the driver. I imagine all these parked volvos along the highway with sleeping swedes in them :)
  • Reply 100 of 106
    aegeanaegean Posts: 164member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post



    Having said that, I do think that most car design today is quite awful and most Japanese and European cars really look no different and don't have any better finishes than American cars. 

     

    No offence but I think the other way around. American cars look, feel and drive like crap and garbage compared to European cars, imo.

     

    I drive Range Rover and BMW (Benz in the past) and can not think of driving anything else. Japanese are ok. So it's just a matter of personal preference and what type of your personality is. ;-)

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